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Jeremy Morin/Marcus Kruger/How do you like your steak

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05-15-2012, 11:31 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
I think the Hawks brass are anxious to see what they really have in Beach.

The main things that have been holding him back are maturity and complete effort, and he made a lot of progress with those this year.

Morin might get called up first, but I think Beach will get his first taste of the NHL this season just to get a better handle on where he's at in his development.
yeah, the maturity is a thing of the past. Beach made huge improvements on everything last season.

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05-15-2012, 11:34 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
I think the Hawks brass are anxious to see what they really have in Beach.

The main things that have been holding him back are maturity and complete effort, and he made a lot of progress with those this year.

Morin might get called up first, but I think Beach will get his first taste of the NHL this season just to get a better handle on where he's at in his development.
And yet for 2 straight postseasons he hasn't been called up as part of end of year callups for playoffs

Lets not forget that Beach was a Tallon pick ,, Not a Bowman pick so who knows how enthusiastic they are to have or see him

Morin is a Bowman guy (Acquired in Buff trade)

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05-15-2012, 11:38 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Rexy View Post
I know that Saad has a lot of potential and is the second coming on this board, but in all honestly, what has he done to earn a roster spot over Stalberg?

I like players earning their spots. Saad hasn't done that.
One thing is for certain on this board. Any prospect is better than any current player on the Hawks roster.

Very few on this board have watched Saad play 10 full games anywhere. Yet, he's penciled in to the 1st/2nd line in the majority of line ups posted.

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05-15-2012, 11:41 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
And yet for 2 straight postseasons he hasn't been called up as part of end of year callups for playoffs

Lets not forget that Beach was a Tallon pick ,, Not a Bowman pick so who knows how enthusiastic they are to have or see him

Morin is a Bowman guy (Acquired in Buff trade)
True, but the sooner they figure out what Beach brings to the NHL, the sooner they figure out whether or not he's worth keeping.

If they really didn't like him that much, he'd be gone. It's been three years since Bowman took over.

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05-15-2012, 11:44 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
True, but the sooner they figure out what Beach brings to the NHL, the sooner they figure out whether or not he's worth keeping.

If they really didn't like him that much, he'd be gone. It's been three years since Bowman took over.
He hasn't had much value

2010 - Too early to trade him as he was basically complete ? as prospect
2011 - Poor year in AHL ,, Lower trade value
2012 - Injured most of year

His value has done nothing but decline since drafted ,, There likely hasn't been much of a chance to move him if they wanted too

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05-15-2012, 11:45 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Considering we have seen Morin 2 years in a row already and yet to see Beach who has failed to live up to his draft position I wouldn't guarantee that

Morin is further along in his development
You obviously havent seen Morin/Beach play last year.

A call up game here or there doesnt make an NHL player. And from actually seeing both play, I would say Beach not only is further along in his development, but will stick with the big club after TC only if be brings what he did every game he was actually on the ice.

Beach has great hands. The best hands in Rockford hands down. His lack of skating is a smidge better then Morins, and when he is on the ice you know he is, while Morin dissapears for shifts at a time.

There is nobody who plays the punk card better then Beach not named Ott. He is exactly what the Hawks need, yapping away getting players off their game.

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05-15-2012, 11:49 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
And yet for 2 straight postseasons he hasn't been called up as part of end of year callups for playoffs
And? He was already chosen the year they won the Cup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Lets not forget that Beach was a Tallon pick ,, Not a Bowman pick so who knows how enthusiastic they are to have or see him
Last time I checked Hawk brass knew what they had in Beach and Bowman stated they were gonna bring him along slowly. You dont rush a kid with his skill set.

Toews was a Tallon pick, are they gonna get rid of him, to?
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Morin is a Bowman guy (Acquired in Buff trade)
And Morin hasnt been the same player since his concussion.

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05-15-2012, 11:51 AM
  #58
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True, but the sooner they figure out what Beach brings to the NHL, the sooner they figure out whether or not he's worth keeping.

If they really didn't like him that much, he'd be gone. It's been three years since Bowman took over.
This.

If they wanted him gone, it would have been after the incident with the nut job.

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05-15-2012, 12:03 PM
  #59
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I'd keep Beach over Morin... in a trade Morin has more value. In the end, both have the same potential but I think Beach offers more

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05-15-2012, 06:26 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post
Beach has great hands. The best hands in Rockford hands down. His lack of skating is a smidge better then Morins, and when he is on the ice you know he is, while Morin dissapears for shifts at a time.
Interesting analysis and what I would guess for both. Morin didnt register a point for long stretches but when he did which was not that often, it seemed it came in bunches. As far as skating, both need to improve.

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05-15-2012, 07:01 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by ChiGuySez View Post
Interesting analysis and what I would guess for both. Morin didnt register a point for long stretches but when he did which was not that often, it seemed it came in bunches. As far as skating, both need to improve.
skating seems to be the only thing hurting Beach right now, and even that is better than it was two years ago.

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05-15-2012, 09:12 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
stop your hate and look at it in a realistic, objectiv way of how the things are going.

Krüger has his spot and will be on the roster - most likely as Center
Look, I am the one who's objective, and I think it's unfortunate "how the things are going" regarding the Hawks managements' inability to objectively assess the (lack of) talent that Kruger currently brings to the table. I certainly don't have to like it, and I am more than allowed to express my belief of such.

Btw, I don't "hate" Kruger, I just don't think he belongs in the NHL on the Hawks. The stats back me up. In my opinion, it's you who should stop with the fanboy love for him and recuse yourself from further postings on Kruger.

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05-15-2012, 10:11 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by pvr View Post
Look, I am the one who's objective, and I think it's unfortunate "how the things are going" regarding the Hawks managements' inability to objectively assess the (lack of) talent that Kruger currently brings to the table. I certainly don't have to like it, and I am more than allowed to express my belief of such.

Btw, I don't "hate" Kruger, I just don't think he belongs in the NHL on the Hawks. The stats back me up. In my opinion, it's you who should stop with the fanboy love for him and recuse yourself from further postings on Kruger.
How do the stats back you up? I'd love to hear this.

The stats say Kruger was 11th on the Hawks in scoring, 8th among forwards. The stats say Kruger had the 4th best +/- among forwards on the team. The stats say he was 4th among fowards in SH TOI per game. How do the stats back you up, exactly?

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05-15-2012, 10:20 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
How do the stats back you up? I'd love to hear this.

The stats say Kruger was 11th on the Hawks in scoring, 8th among forwards. The stats say Kruger had the 4th best +/- among forwards on the team. The stats say he was 4th among fowards in SH TOI per game. How do the stats back you up, exactly?
he was sixth on the team in Average Ice Time (Among Forwards) and 11th in points and goals? (his linemates were 2nd and 5th in points, 1st and 5th in goals)

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05-15-2012, 10:27 PM
  #65
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he was sixth on the team in Average Ice Time (Among Forwards) and 11th in points and goals? (his linemates were 2nd and 5th in points, 1st and 5th in goals)
I'm not the one claiming the stats say Kruger should or shouldn't be in the NHL. Simply pointing out that Kruger has more than a few stats that point to him being a solid NHLer, and one that just finished his rookie NHL season.

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05-15-2012, 10:29 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
I'm not the one claiming the stats say Kruger should or shouldn't be in the NHL. Simply pointing out that Kruger has more than a few stats that point to him being a solid NHLer, and one that just finished his rookie NHL season.
hey, I'm not saying Kruger shouldn't be in the NHL. I have said, and maintain saying that he has not earned his spot on the #2C, and should not be there. I also said that he should have spent last season developing in Rockford.

That being said, I would love for him to show up next season and play amazing and earn his spot. Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong.

Just like I'm sure some of the Crawford haters (not all) Would love to be wrong when he comes back next season and goes back to rookie form.

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05-16-2012, 12:03 AM
  #67
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LOL, Kruger would have been a third line center in Rockford. He should thank his lucky stars Bowman sees something in him that nobody else does.

If Kruger is anything but a fourth liner next year, the Hawks are in trouble. LeBlanc would have made a bigger impact,imo.

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05-16-2012, 12:08 AM
  #68
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i think kruger should be the 4th line center, but many seem to disagree. just doesn't seem to be a very good fit anywhere else. except rockford

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05-16-2012, 12:14 AM
  #69
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i think kruger should be the 4th line center, but many seem to disagree. just doesn't seem to be a very good fit anywhere else. except rockford
As an Ice Hogs STH, Ill honestly say Kruger would have a hard time in Rockford. I dont see him being anything but a forward who can play decent enough defense to not embarrass himself, but I dont see him being any kind of scorer in either the NHL, or the AHL, for that matter. He would be bullied easily and more intensely here.

He has the luxury of being a little coddled in the NHL.

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05-16-2012, 12:19 AM
  #70
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As an Ice Hogs STH, Ill honestly say Kruger would have a hard time in Rockford. I dont see him being anything but a forward who can play decent enough defense to not embarrass himself, but I dont see him being any kind of scorer in either the NHL, or the AHL, for that matter. He would be bullied easily and more intensely here.

He has the luxury of being a little coddled in the NHL.
yeah I noticed when I was at an Icehogs game in December that it's a lot tougher hockey. A lot more chippy and full of scraps

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05-16-2012, 12:39 AM
  #71
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time to hit the weight room kruger

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05-16-2012, 12:52 AM
  #72
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time to hit the weight room kruger
It's past time.

He should've hit the gym after the Game 7 loss to Vancouver and not come out until he weighed at least 190.

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05-16-2012, 12:58 AM
  #73
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Beach's play will always make him look better than Morin IN ROCKFORD. Morin was definitely setback by the concussion but he is still a smart player and would thrive fairly well with a center who can find the spots. That said, he'd look better on a team like Philly out east where guys have a little more time and space to work with. Hawks do need a bruiser like Beach to bring that extra dynamic since we're stuck out west with the passive-on-offense, defensive goonery, clog-the-neutral-zone, forecheck-till-death type of squads to play.


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05-16-2012, 06:37 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by pvr View Post
Look, I am the one who's objective, and I think it's unfortunate "how the things are going" regarding the Hawks managements' inability to objectively assess the (lack of) talent that Kruger currently brings to the table. I certainly don't have to like it, and I am more than allowed to express my belief of such.

Btw, I don't "hate" Kruger, I just don't think he belongs in the NHL on the Hawks. The stats back me up. In my opinion, it's you who should stop with the fanboy love for him and recuse yourself from further postings on Kruger.
look at the stats that back you up...
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
How do the stats back you up? I'd love to hear this.

The stats say Kruger was 11th on the Hawks in scoring, 8th among forwards. The stats say Kruger had the 4th best +/- among forwards on the team. The stats say he was 4th among fowards in SH TOI per game. How do the stats back you up, exactly?

Krüger will NEVER be the guy that carries his line. He will never be a dominant force. He is a guy that is a good 3rd wheel on the line and whatever line he plays will start to click and play good hockey. Another Player like this is Marcel Goc. It was this way in FLA this year and NSH in the past. Same with Krüger. Reliable team guy that is liked by his teammates.

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05-16-2012, 07:01 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by deytookerjaabs View Post
Beach's play will always make him look better than Morin IN ROCKFORD. Morin was definitely setback by the concussion but he is still a smart player and would thrive fairly well with a center who can find the spots. That said, he'd look better on a team like Philly out east where guys have a little more time and space to work with. Hawks do need a bruiser like Beach to bring that extra dynamic since we're stuck out west with the passive-on-offense, defensive goonery, clog-the-neutral-zone, forecheck-till-death type of squads to play.
Would love both on the team. I always liked Morin's upside when he was drafted (reminded me of Sharp with grit, less speed) Don't think he'll get there, but a right handed shooting LW who has a great shot, and plays with grit you can hope to find room for. Unfortunately I don't see a particular place for him other than LW on the first line (and IMO, Beach fits much better in that role of a bodyguard who opens space/big body with soft hands around the net for Toews and Kane) and the beautiful thing about Saad is his excellent defensive positioning (almost Ladd-like) and you can put him anywhere in the top 9 cause of that and his offensive upside. Since Sharp was resigned, I just don't see where Morin fits unless Bowman likes him with Toews and Kane. (or unless Hossa's brain is still scrambled)

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