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Sens and Canucks: good trade partners

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05-11-2012, 09:04 AM
  #1
Peter
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Sens and Canucks: good trade partners

Sens GM, in his end of season address, said that two things he is looking to add is a top 6 forward and a defensive d-man - two things the Canucks have for sale.

Meanwhile, the Canucks are looking to add another d-man and depth on bottom 6 forward.

Would the Sens be willing to move players like Greening, Neil and/or Regin for the likes of Ballard, Booth and/or Raymond.

Sens have caps space but they also have some pretty contracts to sign ala Karlsson.

Could Chris Phillips be persuaded to waive NMC to go to Canucks in a potential deal.

I think these two teams have the makings to hook up again for a deal.

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05-11-2012, 09:13 AM
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Andre Benoit Bawls
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I'd move Greening or maybe Smith. I don't have too much interest in any of those players besides Ballard, who I'd gladly take if the cost was low.

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05-11-2012, 09:20 AM
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Qward
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Phillips was asked last year at the trade deadline if he wanted to go to a contender. He said Ottawa was his home and he wanted to stay, then signed a new contract at a home town discount. It is very unlikely he would waive his NTC.

Your proposal is fair to me. Just unlikely to happen.

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05-11-2012, 09:40 AM
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The Pucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qward View Post
Phillips was asked last year at the trade deadline if he wanted to go to a contender. He said Ottawa was his home and he wanted to stay, then signed a new contract at a home town discount. It is very unlikely he would waive his NTC.

Your proposal is fair to me. Just unlikely to happen.
You shouldnt waste your time with logic and fact, it is not appreciated around here.

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05-11-2012, 09:46 AM
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The Canucks actually need help with an upgrade to our top 6 forwards. Although the players you mentioned with the exception of Booth should be available.

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05-11-2012, 10:03 AM
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I do not see Philips or Neil ever playing elsewhere. I'm sure Ottawa would be open to trading some prospects like Greening for the right return, however.

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05-11-2012, 10:22 AM
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nevermind


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05-11-2012, 10:27 AM
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still feeling that Bure elbow, eh Shane?

there are 30 teams that would like to have karlsson
there's only one he's playing for and this summer you'll see him re-up with a significant deal to ensure that

How about this:

Gonchar, Neil, pick
for
Ballard, Booth, better pick
No where did he ask for karlsson, he was talking about our cap room.

On Phillips, it would not make any sense to deal a defensive d man when that is what we are trying to acquire.

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05-11-2012, 10:31 AM
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Just because we have cap space doesn't mean we want to take your bad contracts for you.


... to add to that, you mentioned that we have cap space but that we also still needed to resign Karlsson. So the logical point here is to trade two players who give you bang for their buck for a combined cap hit of $6M~ while still needing to resign a player who just had a breakout year?


I don't really see the Sens and Canucks being good trading partners.

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05-11-2012, 10:34 AM
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Two of the biggest needs for both teams are top 6 wingers... I don't see how they're good trading partners.

Maybe Vancouver would want some D depth at the deadline and Ottawa may be looking to move an older guy that won't be around longterm, that's the extent to which I think they're good trading partners.

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05-11-2012, 10:37 AM
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No way in hell is Chris Neil or Phillips traded.

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05-11-2012, 10:52 AM
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No where did he ask for karlsson, he was talking about our cap room.

On Phillips, it would not make any sense to deal a defensive d man when that is what we are trying to acquire.
right

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05-11-2012, 11:13 AM
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We're not doing you a favour by taking Ballard. bleh bleh bleh he'll be good in a different system bleh bleh bleh. He's not worth the risk.

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05-11-2012, 11:40 AM
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I doubt we move Phillips, and don't want Ballard. Booth , I'm interested in though.

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05-11-2012, 12:00 PM
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Ched Brosky
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We're not doing you a favour by taking Ballard. bleh bleh bleh he'll be good in a different system bleh bleh bleh. He's not worth the risk.
Most Canucks fans want to keep him one more year unless we get a Suter or Weber somehow where we have to clear more than Luongo's salary to fit that caliber of a player under the cap.

He was arguably our best defender in the playoffs and its not a coincidence that he became that once our coach had a shorter leash on him and let him play his game instead of trying to make him into Aaron Rome.

Reason why our coach finally let him do his thing? he realized his job was on the line. Just like how it took the coaching staff to realize their job was on the line to abolish the drop pass as it had stopped working in last years playoffs and was actually causing scoring chances for opposing teams since then.


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05-11-2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
Sens GM, in his end of season address, said that two things he is looking to add is a top 6 forward and a defensive d-man - two things the Canucks have for sale.

Meanwhile, the Canucks are looking to add another d-man and depth on bottom 6 forward.

Would the Sens be willing to move players like Greening, Neil and/or Regin for the likes of Ballard, Booth and/or Raymond.

Sens have caps space but they also have some pretty contracts to sign ala Karlsson.

Could Chris Phillips be persuaded to waive NMC to go to Canucks in a potential deal.

I think these two teams have the makings to hook up again for a deal.
Neil is definitely not moving. He's a heart and soul player and a huge bargain at 2 million.

As others mentioned, if Phillips was going to go elsewhere, he would have when he hit UFA. He has roots here, and don't see him going anywhere, and the organization is very respectful to its longterm players, so will respect the wishes of guys like Phillips and Alfie, so he's likely not moving.

I could have seen Regin possibly moving, but as we just resigned him, it seems that the Murrays are going to give him a second chance after an injury-writeoff season.

Greening could be had if the price was right, but he has shown some chemistry with Spezza, but we would move him for the right price, as we are looking for a top line winger to replace him on the top line with Spezza and Michalek.

I want no part of Raymond, and especially not Ballard, but Booth could be an option. Maybe something around Greening for Booth?

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05-11-2012, 12:21 PM
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Cogburn
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Vancouver needs top six forwards.
My argument is we need more defensive minded defenders, or at least better then what we have now.

Raymond can be available, but Gillis has said he wants him to have another chance here.

Our bottom six needs a little tweaking, depending pn who we retain (ie Pahlsson), but with Higgins, Hansen, Malhotra and Lapierre, we dont need to add a bottom sixer at the cost of our top 6 defensemen, or top 6 fowards.

We have depth defensemen (Gragnani not included, but Alberts and Rome can be), 4th liners that fill out our roster (Weise, Volpatti, etc as RFAs) and, of course, goaltenders. If Ottawa wants an upgrade there, we have anpther thread is all...

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05-11-2012, 12:51 PM
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Ched Brosky
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I actually don't see the two teams as a fit. Both have the same needs. Canucks need a steady RH d-man to pair with Edler, and a playmaking winger for Kes and Booth.

Canucks only have a goalie, a 2nd/3rd line tweener, 4th line players, and depth defenders and a 2 way defender available. Ottawa has enough tweeners, 4th liners, depth defenders and goalies.

a puck rushing defender is not a defensive d-man so Ballard doesn't fit their wants either

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05-11-2012, 01:37 PM
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don't see Ottawa dealing Greening... at least they shouldn't

good first full season with 17 goals and 20 assists.

he has 50 points in the 106 games he's played in the NHL

worth holding on to, to see if he continues to improve.

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05-11-2012, 02:28 PM
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NFITO
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Originally Posted by Jakob Silfverberg View Post
We're not doing you a favour by taking Ballard. bleh bleh bleh he'll be good in a different system bleh bleh bleh. He's not worth the risk.
uh?? yet another fan that has not followed Ballard all year long and is absolutely clueless about him!

Ballard doesn't need to go to a different system to be better... he just needed to adjust in the system he was in, which he did this season. The year before, yea, he was horrible. He was not a fit in the system and seemed out of place in the role he was asked to play.

This past year, he was solid. He got better consistently through the season and was the team's best dman in the playoffs.

There's no reason to move him right now at all. The only reason why he would be moved is if his cap hit doesn't fit the role he's asked to fill. That's the ONLY problem with him in Vancouver. He is stuck behind 2 better left side defenders in Edler and Hamhuis. All 3 of them are not good on the right side, so all are forced to play the left side. Ballard is just way too expensive an option as your 3rd pairing dman, but he's not going to overtake Edler or Hamhuis, who are both outstanding defenders themselves.

But right now, there isn't a concern at all to move him as the cap structure fits. And as long as he fits the cap, he's an ASSET - not a dump, not a player we need another team to take to do us a favour - but an ACTUAL ASSET to this club. He is a very good dman that took a year to adjust to a new team, system and expectations (after playing his entire career on non-playoff teams before). He's adjusted just fine, and as we saw last year, he improved consistently throughout the season, and played his best hockey in the playoffs.

It's surprising how clueless so much of this board is with so many players and just don't follow them, sticking to assumptions created from years' past. Follow the player and know something about him if you're going to comment as if you know what you're talking about. You do realize that things change from year to year? Players do adjust to systems and new environments. Ballard isn't the same dman now in Vancouver that he was when he first got here and did struggle to find a fit in his first season.

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05-11-2012, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by TorontoTrades View Post
don't see Ottawa dealing Greening... at least they shouldn't

good first full season with 17 goals and 20 assists.

he has 50 points in the 106 games he's played in the NHL

worth holding on to, to see if he continues to improve.
Agreed. Same goes for Smith. I don't think we're great trading partners personally.

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Old
05-11-2012, 02:57 PM
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we don't make good partners. there isn't anyone on their roster that fills a need that i think we could get at a reasonable price.

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05-11-2012, 03:02 PM
  #23
Cogburn
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
uh?? yet another fan that has not followed Ballard all year long and is absolutely clueless about him!

Ballard doesn't need to go to a different system to be better... he just needed to adjust in the system he was in, which he did this season. The year before, yea, he was horrible. He was not a fit in the system and seemed out of place in the role he was asked to play.

This past year, he was solid. He got better consistently through the season and [I]was the team's best dman in the playoffs. [/I]

There's no reason to move him right now at all. The only reason why he would be moved is if his cap hit doesn't fit the role he's asked to fill. That's the ONLY problem with him in Vancouver. He is stuck behind 2 better left side defenders in Edler and Hamhuis. All 3 of them are not good on the right side, so all are forced to play the left side. Ballard is just way too expensive an option as your 3rd pairing dman, but he's not going to overtake Edler or Hamhuis, who are both outstanding defenders themselves.

But right now, there isn't a concern at all to move him as the cap structure fits. And as long as he fits the cap, he's an ASSET - not a dump, not a player we need another team to take to do us a favour - but an ACTUAL ASSET to this club. He is a very good dman that took a year to adjust to a new team, system and expectations (after playing his entire career on non-playoff teams before). He's adjusted just fine, and as we saw last year, he improved consistently throughout the season, and played his best hockey in the playoffs.

It's surprising how clueless so much of this board is with so many players and just don't follow them, sticking to assumptions created from years' past. Follow the player and know something about him if you're going to comment as if you know what you're talking about. You do realize that things change from year to year? Players do adjust to systems and new environments. Ballard isn't the same dman now in Vancouver that he was when he first got here and did struggle to find a fit in his first season.
Ballard was off a severe injury last year, looked terrible, came out strong, got a freak injury, came back from a concussion in the playoffs this year, and took over, playing his game, in a system he was now comfortable in.

He is not the cap dump everyone on these boards thinks we think he is. Assuming he doesn't hurt himself eating pancakes, playing floor hockey, or picking up a cracker this offseason, he will be a very important piece to our blue line.

For the record, the only reason he was on our third pairing with a rookie this playoffs was insane chemistry between him and Tanev, and a coach wedded to the idea that you can't play what he considers your 'off side' by merit of your handedness.

While I wouldn't ask for the price we paid (an NHL ready prospect, a first rounder and a cap dump), he isn't a cap dump to us, he has value to this organization worth the cap hit.

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05-11-2012, 03:03 PM
  #24
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Oh, and if Ottawa fans are still in for the Raymond+ for Neil deal there was discussion of earlier, I'm still open for that.

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05-11-2012, 03:22 PM
  #25
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Quote:
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uh?? yet another fan that has not followed Ballard all year long and is absolutely clueless about him!
He was thrown into every Vancouver proposal up until a month ago as a cap dump. Look it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Oh, and if Ottawa fans are still in for the Raymond+ for Neil deal there was discussion of earlier, I'm still open for that.
Neil is far too valuable to swap for Raymond.

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