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Old
05-12-2012, 11:06 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by NovaScotia Habsfan31 View Post
Yes the Kings are an 8th seed who have made it to the 3rd round losing only one game so far. What the opening poster doesn't take into account is

1) The Kings are arguably one of the best 8th seeds to make the playoffs ever.
2) The way the Kings have been built is the antithesis of how the Habs have been built the last few years. They drafted high for years- Doughty is a prime example. Most of the roster is home grown with their own picks and guys like Richards and Carter were traded for with their own prospects and picks Carter via Johnson via Gleason. There were no bandaid moves like we have seen with the Habs.

So remember when you see the Kings doing so well despite being an 8th seed look at how they were built because they were built with the strategy that the posters on here who want the Habs to take shortcuts just to make the playoffs HATE.
LoL, what "strategy" did the Kings use? Suck for many years and luck out in 2005 to have Kopitar drop to 10th?

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Old
05-12-2012, 11:08 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Habitant#1 View Post
As good as the Kings are, no 8th seed has ever won the Cup.
and parity has never been as pronounced...

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05-12-2012, 11:42 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Habitant#1 View Post
As good as the Kings are, no 8th seed has ever won the Cup.
It will happen sooner or later. Has to. But some folks will treat it like it's the rule rather than the exception.

This year would be as good as any other for it to happen though. Both LA AND Washington were both teams that were considered huge dispointments. Both teams were expected to be at the top of their respective conferences and neither club played very well this year. Holtby and Quick have been amazing though and with all the upsets we've seen this year we could very well see Caps vs. LA. I'd love to see it.

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Old
05-12-2012, 12:32 PM
  #54
NovaScotia Habsfan31
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
LoL, what "strategy" did the Kings use? Suck for many years and luck out in 2005 to have Kopitar drop to 10th?
They did their rebuild throughout the last part of the last decade with getting extra picks and taking their lumps. Look at their roster- most of their players are HOME GROWN with two guys acquired this year in Richards and Carter acquired with kids drafted by them in Schenn and Simmonds and giving up a first rounder in this year's draft as their GM figures they already had the depth in the organization to go for it and get a scoring winger in.

The Kings are light years ahead of the Habs- it is arrogant fans like you with smart a$$ replies who are oblivious to this

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05-12-2012, 01:46 PM
  #55
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We have Tomas Kaberle

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Old
05-12-2012, 01:56 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I think they could have made the playoffs if Markov had returned after the Christmas break. Besides, Gauthier wouldn't have traded for Kaberle and the Habs would have had more options.
+ Not changing Martin for Cunneyworth.

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05-12-2012, 03:16 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
We finished 3rd last.

We were right to support the tank. This team wasn't good enough to be 8th.

And now you will see what cleaning house will do for us. This season was instrumental in ridding us of Gauthier and his henchmen.
SO the new guy comes in and the first thing he does is note that there are some very good elements on the team to build with. Really? Which henchman got them? the way some people talk, the group that was here were blithering idiots who could not do anything right. And you know what? It is not true, and good on Marc Bergevin for telling it like it is.

Meanwhile, Bob Gainey, a Cup winning GM, just got hired again by an NHL team.

Frankly at my age, I am getting tired of hearing rude people who think they could run a pro sports franchise better than the guys paid to do it.

Now, I am ok with the Habs having made a change after a disastrous season, but at least having a little respect for professionals would be in order.

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05-12-2012, 03:57 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
SO the new guy comes in and the first thing he does is note that there are some very good elements on the team to build with. Really? Which henchman got them? the way some people talk, the group that was here were blithering idiots who could not do anything right. And you know what? It is not true, and good on Marc Bergevin for telling it like it is.

Meanwhile, Bob Gainey, a Cup winning GM, just got hired again by an NHL team.

Frankly at my age, I am getting tired of hearing rude people who think they could run a pro sports franchise better than the guys paid to do it.

Now, I am ok with the Habs having made a change after a disastrous season, but at least having a little respect for professionals would be in order.
The "good nucleus" Bergevin was talking of is mostly the product of Timmins' work. Gainey & Gauthier were literally incapable of doing anything right. Everybody knew the Gomez, Bourque and Kaberle deals were awful the day they made them.

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05-12-2012, 03:57 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
SO the new guy comes in and the first thing he does is note that there are some very good elements on the team to build with. Really? Which henchman got them? the way some people talk, the group that was here were blithering idiots who could not do anything right. And you know what? It is not true, and good on Marc Bergevin for telling it like it is.

Meanwhile, Bob Gainey, a Cup winning GM, just got hired again by an NHL team.

Frankly at my age, I am getting tired of hearing rude people who think they could run a pro sports franchise better than the guys paid to do it.

Now, I am ok with the Habs having made a change after a disastrous season, but at least having a little respect for professionals would be in order.
Unfortunately, arrogance can be posted under the cover of anonymity. Besides, Gainey and Gauthier made some shrewd moves that their critics choose to ignore.

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05-12-2012, 04:48 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Unfortunately, arrogance can be posted under the cover of anonymity. Besides, Gainey and Gauthier made some shrewd moves that their critics choose to ignore.
very true indeed... (2nd part, not so much... though I'm curious, which "shrewd moves" do you feel get ignored?)

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Old
05-12-2012, 05:27 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Unfortunately, arrogance can be posted under the cover of anonymity. Besides, Gainey and Gauthier made some shrewd moves that their critics choose to ignore.
Diddn't you hear? Everybody on here is smarter than all NHL GM's.

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05-12-2012, 05:42 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by BJG View Post
To my friends on this board who often wrote that they would prefer the Habs to finish last than 8th, I present the LA Kings. And, for that matter, the Washington Capitals. How many examples do we need of teams squeaking into the POs only to make a great run (Habs upsetting the Pens and Caps two years ago) or even winning it all (GB Packers winning the SB from the 6th seed).

Of course, in an effort to make it into 7th or 8th spot, a team may fall short and finish 9th or 10th. That's sport. But next year, when the Habs are in 11th place in late January, can we remember these examples and pull for our team to make it into the POs rather than another round of calls for tanking?
If we've learned anything about successful cup runs, a hot goalie is required, and Price is certainly capable of that.

That is all.

Cue Herm...
yes,

but,

an admonition does not the problem of tanking kill.

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05-12-2012, 05:55 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by BJG View Post
To my friends on this board who often wrote that they would prefer the Habs to finish last than 8th, I present the LA Kings. And, for that matter, the Washington Capitals. How many examples do we need of teams squeaking into the POs only to make a great run (Habs upsetting the Pens and Caps two years ago) or even winning it all (GB Packers winning the SB from the 6th seed).

Of course, in an effort to make it into 7th or 8th spot, a team may fall short and finish 9th or 10th. That's sport. But next year, when the Habs are in 11th place in late January, can we remember these examples and pull for our team to make it into the POs rather than another round of calls for tanking?
If we've learned anything about successful cup runs, a hot goalie is required, and Price is certainly capable of that.

That is all.

Cue Herm...
You can also draft a gem in round 6, but I would much rather have a top 5 pick. I won't lie though, I'd much rather win as an underdog than a favourite...

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05-12-2012, 05:59 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Diddn't you hear? Everybody on here is smarter than all NHL GM's.
This is a fan site.

If you don't have any opinions, and you're not interested in other people's opinions, don't bother coming.

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Old
05-12-2012, 06:04 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
The team did not finish last in the East on purpose... "Tanking" is a really dirty word, meaning the guys just stop playing and did not bother at all....

I really hope it's the last season we see that sick word on this board !
For some people in the room its probably true. effort levels are always higher in the playoffs than in the regular season. So effort and compete levels are probably a little different between dressing rooms fighting for a playoff spot versus those who might as well already have their golf memberships paid up. Not true for everyone, but when there's very little our nothing at stake the mindset is different

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05-12-2012, 06:41 PM
  #66
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The "good nucleus" Bergevin was talking of is mostly the product of Timmins' work. Gainey & Gauthier were literally incapable of doing anything right. Everybody knew the Gomez, Bourque and Kaberle deals were awful the day they made them.
Not Bourque, some were glad to be rid of Cammy, though not me really.

But be careful about "everyone", because "everyone" said that signing Cole was never going to work out. Too expensive, played badly in Edmonton, old, fragile, etc.

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Old
05-12-2012, 06:53 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
1. Put a very strong group of team players together.

2. Get the right coaching staff

3. Make the playoffs


4. Peak in May & June

5. Get solid to hot goaltending

6. Avoid injuries to key pieces

7. Get some timely OT luck (because there WILL be OT along the way)

Its so damn easy.

The Habs did it in '86 and '93
Almost! The 1986 coach was probably the worst Cup winning coach ever.

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05-12-2012, 07:22 PM
  #68
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Players play to win, but managers often employ strategies that are focused on long-term gains with short-term losses.

When you are at the deadline and are "sellers" you trade veteran assets for picks and prospects in hopes of building a more solid future. This isn't "tanking" but it serves the purpose of making the team do worse in the season but find themselves in a better place in the off season because of the trade.

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05-12-2012, 07:25 PM
  #69
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very true indeed... (2nd part, not so much... though I'm curious, which "shrewd moves" do you feel get ignored?)
I won't name them all but acquiring Kovalev, Gorges, Price, Pacioretty, Emelin, Cole, Desharnais come to mind. Also, rounding up a batch of second rounders in 2012 and 2013.

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05-12-2012, 08:56 PM
  #70
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I won't name them all but acquiring Kovalev, Gorges, Price, Pacioretty, Emelin, Cole, Desharnais come to mind. Also, rounding up a batch of second rounders in 2012 and 2013.
so in other words, they were lucky slats preferred Balej to pleks or higgins, they've been very good at drafting (Price/MaxPac/Emelin... wonder how much credit you give to Timmins in that department?), made 2 good signings, and then bombed so badly that they accumulated some extra picks by selling off veteran players?

i guess we have very different understandings of the word "shrewd".

for example...

Sather trading gomez for a top prospect and a good young player... shrewd
Polie trading two UFA's to be that you don't want (one of which won't even remain in the nhl, the other a back up goalie) for a young player who steps in and scores 20+... shrewd
Riseborough trading a bust of a high draft pick for a blossoming young PF... shrewd

in other words, shrewd should, imo, be reserved for when you manage to dump a declining or soon to be even less valuable asset for an increasing asset... revealing "sharp powers of judgement".


outbidding other teams to land a ufa(Cole)... making pretty standard deadline deals as a buyer (kovalev) or seller (rivet)... letting your quality draft guru do his job... all of these things can hardly be viewed as "shrewd". Nothing particularly special about making standard moves that turn work out well.


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05-13-2012, 07:41 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
We finished 3rd last.

We were right to support the tank. This team wasn't good enough to be 8th.

And now you will see what cleaning house will do for us. This season was instrumental in ridding us of Gauthier and his henchmen.
agreed but there is no way Bergevin will clean house but he should with this roster

it will be more bandaids and patching

Molson wont allow a 3 year true rebuild

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05-13-2012, 07:58 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
SO the new guy comes in and the first thing he does is note that there are some very good elements on the team to build with. Really? Which henchman got them? the way some people talk, the group that was here were blithering idiots who could not do anything right. And you know what? It is not true, and good on Marc Bergevin for telling it like it is.

Meanwhile, Bob Gainey, a Cup winning GM, just got hired again by an NHL team.

Frankly at my age, I am getting tired of hearing rude people who think they could run a pro sports franchise better than the guys paid to do it.

Now, I am ok with the Habs having made a change after a disastrous season, but at least having a little respect for professionals would be in order.
my good man , it depends on how the decisions are made

if the owner wants a patch job , and you are forced to comply then no smart decision maker will do anything but keep his job

but for all my rants and posts on this board , the stupidiity of this organization how they handle players , make deals, and poor stupid personnel moves makes you wonder ?

I have whined for years we have no CORE to win with and now you are seeing what I am talking about.

we arent going to compete with anyone in the east with what we have in dd and Pleks .

If Bergevin is truly in charge and understands what needs to be done , he starts by taking charge at the center spot

Eller is legit # 2 solid 50 pointer , lets see how he handles it

Markov, Kaberle ,Gomez , need to flushed out asap

Tinordi is ready to contribute as third pairing dman

lets see if he patches like we always do or truly fixes this mess cause thruthfully

like I said before anyone who thought that by spending like a drunk on free agency 3 years ago and not getting no assets for any pending UFA `S is the way to build a team , THEN YOU ARE FOOLS like the jerks who made the moves in the first place

I WOULD NEVER OF SIGNED MARKOV , TRADED FOR KABBIE , ETC

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Old
05-13-2012, 10:00 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
This is a fan site.

If you don't have any opinions, and you're not interested in other people's opinions, don't bother coming.
You don't shun an interesting site because of the stray dogs who piss on it. Luckily, there's an ignore option.

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Old
05-13-2012, 02:04 PM
  #74
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Moore, Cole, Eller, Bonk, Huet Wisniewski, Lang, Kovalev, Gorges, Moen, Kostopoulos, Gill, Hamrlik were all good trades and signings. All performed well in their time here and in a lot of cases were much better than people had expected. They filled the roles the GMs had intended, regardless if it was for a rental. Rentals are acquired every year, they can be successful(that is perform on your team) like Wisniewski or fail (like Halpern in LA).


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Old
05-13-2012, 03:13 PM
  #75
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Moore, Cole, Eller, Bonk, Huet Wisniewski, Lang, Kovalev, Gorges, Moen, Kostopoulos, Gill, Hamrlik were all good trades and signings. All performed well in their time here and in a lot of cases were much better than people had expected. They filled the roles the GMs had intended, regardless if it was for a rental. Rentals are acquired every year, they can be successful(that is perform on your team) like Wisniewski or fail (like Halpern in LA).
good in your opinion, sure...


but others might say we overpaid for moore (when an equivalent player, who arguably would have been a better fit & better chance to re-sign, was traded for less a few days later) & Lang (he played very well for us, but a 2nd for a declining/aging vet coming off of a bad season with a very high cap hit... not exactly a "good" move, more like decent).


some certainly feel the Eller/Halak trade wasn't a particularly good one (I liked it, even if i didn't like the rumors that we didn't properly shop Halak).

Cole has worked out in year one, no doubt about it, though the concerns at the time of his signing were over the term... i'd say it was a very good move, but with an * (when you outbid everyone for a 30+ vet, it's hard to ignore the term factor, hopefully Cole manages to maintain a strong level in years 3-4 of the deal, i'm cautiously optimistic he will even if at the time of the signing I was more sceptical).



all that to say it's easy to simply say moves x-y-z were good, but important to keep in mind that it's a subjective perspective. Others who don't share the same belief aren't by default wrong, or "haters".

as a tally, if those were legitimately the "good" moves of the gainey/gauthier tenure, considering their limited impact, the Gomez trade alone easily makes the bad outweigh the good (let alone thinking about the decisions around Samsanov, Streit, Souray, Ryder, Ribiero, Theodore, Koivu, Tanguay, Lapierre, S.Kost, Grabovski, D'agostini, O'byrne, Cammalleri, Spacek, Kaberle...)

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