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ECSF Game 7: Caps @ Rangers. 7:30pm. MSG. 5.12.2012 (Grab Your Sack Edition)

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05-12-2012, 11:15 PM
  #926
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
I feel bad for Ovi. All he wants to do is win. You can see it in his face

Always next year.
I'd feel worse if he came into camp in the best shape of his life this year.

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05-12-2012, 11:17 PM
  #927
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Just looking over the season, seems like the Caps had under 10 40 shot games, and got blown out most of them.

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05-12-2012, 11:18 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Ovechkin needs to get back to being the dominant offensive player first, or any gains in his two-way play won't really matter.
I think the 60G days are gone forever. Teams no longer give him space, and he hasn't really developed any new offensive tools.

His production was alright in this post-season. But given that he longer has the space, he has to evolve to battle on the boards to a) more time in the offensive zone, and b) more chances. At this point I think it's the only way, and will improve his defense and offense both.

Basically there are three types of offense:
@ Set plays, broken plays (e.g. face-offs) -- Ovi will always be a threat off those
@ Transition offense -- there is just none in playoffs.. I'm not sure the 80s Soviet teams would score anything in transition in this NHL. Backcheck is too good.
@ The cycle -- this is what generates the ugly playoffs goals. This is an area that's completely untapped for Ovi. And if he learns to focus on battling for the puck, it'll help both on offense and on D.

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05-12-2012, 11:20 PM
  #929
BigDaddyNYR
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Just wanted to jump on here real quick and thank you guys for a great series!

I love you guys under Hunter...going to be a scary team going forward if everyone buys in.

Again great series, and thanks for all the memories of amazing games.

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05-12-2012, 11:22 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
I think the 60G days are gone forever. Teams no longer give him space, and he hasn't really developed any new offensive tools.

His production was alright in this post-season. But given that he longer has the space, he has to evolve to battle on the boards to a) more time in the offensive zone, and b) more chances. At this point I think it's the only way, and will improve his defense and offense both.

Basically there are three types of offense:
@ Set plays, broken plays (e.g. face-offs) -- Ovi will always be a threat off those
@ Transition offense -- there is just none in playoffs.. I'm not sure the 80s Soviet teams would score anything in transition in this NHL. Backcheck is too good.
@ The cycle -- this is what generates the ugly playoffs goals. This is an area that's completely untapped for Ovi. And if he learns to focus on battling for the puck, it'll help both on offense and on D.
Even if his 60G days are behind him, he could still easily be a 40-50G, 100P player. His stick handling, puck protection, and shooting have all regressed since the Olympics. If he can find those again, his production will ramp up, regardless of whether or not he adds more variance to his attack. His struggles are errors in skill execution much more that a shortage of creativity, IMO.

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05-12-2012, 11:24 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyNYR View Post
Just wanted to jump on here real quick and thank you guys for a great series!

I love you guys under Hunter...going to be a scary team going forward if everyone buys in.

Again great series, and thanks for all the memories of amazing games.
Not really. They sucked under Hunter.

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05-12-2012, 11:25 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
21g, 54 pts, .68 ppg in the postseason. Utterly replaceable.
Really? Off a tree? I really do not see any other winger coming in here and having greater success. It's no secret I never liked Boudreau...never felt that his system had a sophisticated, puck moving facet to it in the offensive zone(critical to get a goal or two per playoff game) nor in the defensive zone (to keep teams from pinning you in). The same is doubly true for DH. All these fancy plays that fail are, IMHO, generally a result of guys feeling the need to make a stupendous play to score. Rarely do we see a tic-tac-toe with this team .

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05-12-2012, 11:28 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyNYR View Post
Just wanted to jump on here real quick and thank you guys for a great series!

I love you guys under Hunter...going to be a scary team going forward if everyone buys in.

Again great series, and thanks for all the memories of amazing games.
I'm sure you loved us under Hunter, i would too if I hated the Caps.

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05-12-2012, 11:32 PM
  #934
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Seriously, what the **** are we paying Ovie for if we are going to play this system? This team still has no identity. I just want Hunter gone. His system is basically keep it close and pray. I'd rather watch VBoudreaus teams than this. The only thing different was this teams resillency. Anyone else find it hilarious and sick that the Rangers beat us in the most meaningful series of the past 4 years?

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05-12-2012, 11:33 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Even if his 60G days are behind him, he could still easily be a 40-50G, 100P player. His stick handling, puck protection, and shooting have all regressed since the Olympics. If he can find those again, his production will ramp up, regardless of whether or not he adds more variance to his attack. His struggles are errors in skill execution much more that a shortage of creativity, IMO.
That does make sense.. but in the end, not sure if marginal improvement in Ovi's offensive execution could offset 1) opponents being able to tilt the ice against his line, and 2) inability to cycle negating the skill set of his linemates, e.g. Backstrom.

I mean, if we had a productive offensive line driven by Backstrom.. and then on another line you'd have a more on-the-ball Ovi with "Zubrus+" as a fast strong two-way center to clear space.. maybe..

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05-12-2012, 11:35 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
That does make sense.. but in the end, not sure if marginal improvement in Ovi's offensive execution could offset 1) opponents being able to tilt the ice against his line, and 2) inability to cycle negating the skill set of his linemates, e.g. Backstrom.
Good Ovie was a beast on the offensive cycle. I long for the days when SOB would cycle opponents to death and create quality chances. I think his loss of effectiveness there has a lot to do with him losing his ability to protect and retain the puck.

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05-12-2012, 11:41 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Good Ovie was a beast on the offensive cycle. I long for the days when SOB would cycle opponents to death and create quality chances. I think his loss of effectiveness there has a lot to do with him losing his ability to protect and retain the puck.
Well, somewhat -- it was never consistent. There would be a couple of shifts a game when Ovi's line would be buzzing around in the offensive zone, I'll give you that, but it was never something that happened all/most of the game, I think.

But I guess, yeah, we don't see it at all now, Ovi can't hold on to the puck any more. I don't know if it's something that can just "come back" to him though.. on the other hand I can see how an emphasis on board battles could get him more touches and eventually return some of that feel for the puck..

But hey, I'm all for Ovi rediscovering his touch. I just have a feeling that this will necessarily require him working his tail off, either way. Coaches can't really control him in the off-season, but at least battling for pucks is somehting they could emphasize in-season..

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05-12-2012, 11:45 PM
  #938
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Well, somewhat -- it was never consistent. There would be a couple of shifts a game when Ovi's line would be buzzing around in the offensive zone, I'll give you that, but it was never something that happened all/most of the game, I think.

But I guess, yeah, we don't see it at all now, Ovi can't hold on to the puck any more. I don't know if it's something that can just "come back" to him though.. on the other hand I can see how an emphasis on board battles could get him more touches and eventually return some of that feel for the puck..

But hey, I'm all for Ovi rediscovering his touch. I just have a feeling that might necessarily involve him working his tail off, either way.
Oh no doubt. I think any improvement, whether it be turning into a more complete player, or getting the offense back, will be the result of extra dedication on his part in the off-season. He needs a renewed focus and confidence. How he'll get that, I don't know. I wish I did.

GSWM really needs to challenge him in the exit meetings to come into training camp in the best shape of his life.

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05-12-2012, 11:50 PM
  #939
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Well if it's a choice between Ovechkin and Hunter that's not much of a choice.

Caps are so lucky to have Ovechkin, but the guy needs to rededicate himself.

Everyone in the entire hockey world knows it. I hope he knows it too.

All I know is we better draft 2 centers in the first round this year.

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05-12-2012, 11:53 PM
  #940
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I just don't see any viable way we could let Semin walk. I mean, if there's a replacement? Yeah go for it. But let's be honest there's not. Also, I would be very disappointed if they traded Johansson. The only thing he needs to work on is being stronger on the puck. That will come, and when it does he will be a very very good player. He also is on a cheap deal, and if he increases production next year, it will be great to have a low cap hit guy like that.

Anyone else feel like the Caps were a much better team at home than on the road this playoff? It felt they just played much better all around even though they may have won more games on the road.

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Old
05-12-2012, 11:57 PM
  #941
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I just don't see any viable way we could let Semin walk. I mean, if there's a replacement? Yeah go for it. But let's be honest there's not. Also, I would be very disappointed if they traded Johansson. The only thing he needs to work on is being stronger on the puck. That will come, and when it does he will be a very very good player. He also is on a cheap deal, and if he increases production next year, it will be great to have a low cap hit guy like that.

Anyone else feel like the Caps were a much better team at home than on the road this playoff? It felt they just played much better all around even though they may have won more games on the road.
21 goals, 54 points.

There were 89 guys in the league that had at least 21 goals.

There were 79 guys in the league that had at least 54 points.

So yeah, there's somewhere in the range of 2-3 guys PER TEAM that produce as much as Semin. What does that tell you? He's very replaceable.

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05-13-2012, 12:04 AM
  #942
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The fact that OV is falling down all the time speaks volumes about his strength and conditioning. In fact, this whole team falls down much too much for my liking. That's one way he loses the puck once or twice a game, often along the boards.

If anyone wants a happy trip down memory lane;

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05-13-2012, 12:08 AM
  #943
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
21 goals, 54 points.

There were 89 guys in the league that had at least 21 goals.

There were 79 guys in the league that had at least 54 points.

So yeah, there's somewhere in the range of 2-3 guys PER TEAM that produce as much as Semin. What does that tell you? He's very replaceable.
Who were his linemates while Backstrom was out? MP and Chimera?

I'm not a Semin apologist by any means, he gets on my nerves, but when your team can not score, you don't trade him. He may make some bonehead plays out there but you can see he's constantly hustling out there.

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05-13-2012, 12:13 AM
  #944
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Who were his linemates while Backstrom was out? MP and Chimera?

I'm not a Semin apologist by any means, he gets on my nerves, but when your team can not score, you don't trade him. He may make some bonehead plays out there but you can see he's constantly hustling out there.
Ah yes, the linemate argument. If he needs linemates to score, he's not worth bringing back at the price he'll demand. You pay $5M+ for guys that can create offense, not complementary players.

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05-13-2012, 12:13 AM
  #945
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Not really. They sucked under Hunter.
no they didnt. the caps really surprised alot of people. if they buy into hunters program they will be a force to be recon with.look at the rangers, and you guys have much more offense the the rangers. stick with it and I see a cup for you within 2 to 3 years. gotta believe!

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05-13-2012, 12:15 AM
  #946
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losing this game was in the best interest of the franchise.

time to get rid of GMGM, alexander pedestrian , semin, green and backstrom. they all suck and have loser mentalities.

i wold love to totally rebuild at this point. because the caps will never win with this core of losers that they have now .

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05-13-2012, 12:19 AM
  #947
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Really all the Ovi blame is stupid.

Dale Hunter did exactly what Boudreau was fired for, seeing problems, not fixing them.

This whole year has been Hunter seeing a good line combination letting it run, then some little mistake or bad shift, and that line is gone. Just ****ing gone because of one shift.

He let a terrible line of Ovechkin-Laich-Brouwer run a whole ****ing game, even though everyone here knows the ****ing solution for a game 7, get a goal early and that best line to try and set the tone or get the early goal is SOB and only SOB. Instead he puts out the 4th line.

SOB wasn't even a ****ing PP unit, that tells you what a useless piece of crap Dale Hunter is, he didn't even put SOB out there instead he puts MoJo out, if its not SOB then its gotta be Brouwer not MoJo.

Either way, Ovechkin and Backstrom need to be on a flight to Sweden and Carlson to Finland, none of them have any excuses besides being denied to their respective national teams to flake out on the WHC. It'd be a real indicator if they all go over and are dominating.
Ranger fan here. Caps gave us a tough fight. Didnt think we would win, but reading your board sand seeing you blame hunter is just ludicrous. you never would have made the playoffs without him

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05-13-2012, 12:20 AM
  #948
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no they didnt. the caps really surprised alot of people. if they buy into hunters program they will be a force to be recon with.look at the rangers, and you guys have much more offense the the rangers. stick with it and I see a cup for you within 2 to 3 years. gotta believe!
How many Cups have the Rangers won with their system?

And yes, the Caps sucked under Hunter. Without major adjustments from him, they'll suck again.

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05-13-2012, 12:21 AM
  #949
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Ranger fan here. Caps gave us a tough fight. Didnt think we would win, but reading your board sand seeing you blame hunter is just ludicrous. you never would have made the playoffs without him


Fun fact: the Caps had a lower point percentage under Hunter this season than under Boudreau.

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05-13-2012, 12:28 AM
  #950
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losing this game was in the best interest of the franchise.

time to get rid of GMGM, alexander pedestrian , semin, green and backstrom. they all suck and have loser mentalities.

i wold love to totally rebuild at this point. because the caps will never win with this core of losers that they have now .
Don't think you would have trouble getting rid of any of those guys... All the skilled players the Rangers , and much of the rest of the NHL don't have...

Better off finding a philosophy that helps them win IMO.

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