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ECSF Game 7: Caps @ Rangers. 7:30pm. MSG. 5.12.2012 (Grab Your Sack Edition)

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05-13-2012, 10:31 AM
  #976
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Because the previous formulas or identities for this team were so successful.
Exciting #1 Seeds and Early exits

or

Making playoffs in final 2 days with wussbag ***** system and early exits.

Tough choice.

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05-13-2012, 10:33 AM
  #977
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21 goals, 54 points.

There were 89 guys in the league that had at least 21 goals.

There were 79 guys in the league that had at least 54 points.

So yeah, there's somewhere in the range of 2-3 guys PER TEAM that produce as much as Semin. What does that tell you? He's very replaceable.
I mean, if we're going to use this standard, what do we have to say about Ovechkin's 65 points for 9.5M?

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05-13-2012, 10:35 AM
  #978
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Just a few years ago, media and fans were both killing Julien for being overly defensive. Said he would never win with the limited offensive style they played. But slowly, his players learned the system, he learned his players, and Julien adapted to make it more of a balanced system. I don't see why this wouldn't be possible under Dale. Most of these guys are still new to the system. Let him have the offseason, training camp, etc, etc, lets see how they come in under Dale next year. I'm willing to bet he will tweak a few things here and there.
please. they learned the system on day 1 and were masters of it by day 2. what tard couldnt learn the basic concepts of whacking it out of the zone, dumping it in, dont forecheck/chase and hope for the best.

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05-13-2012, 10:41 AM
  #979
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I mean, if we're going to use this standard, what do we have to say about Ovechkin's 65 points for 9.5M?
One's a pending UFA. One's the captain with a long term deal. A bit of a different situation.

And if we're going to evaluate Ovie in the same manner:

There were 5 players in the league with at least 38 goals.

There were 40 players in the league with at least 65 points.

That goal scoring is a whole lot less replaceable than Semin's production.

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05-13-2012, 10:55 AM
  #980
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werent we a defensive team last year, i dont get this new identity crap
it was not boudreau's identity. thats really the difference. the other difference was that carlson, green and wideman were all healthy the entire run. that was worth three more wins.

of course boudreau was still wanting to use the offensive skills of those players and hunter far less so.

so....who knows. personally i am not longer very interested in the micro. the macro is that the caps are no longer fun and on many levels.

* the loserness. its the same story over and over again. its not a surprise. its life. its like taking back a cheating girlfriend and being surprised when she both cheats again and the asked to be forgiven.

* i am not going to set my weekly schedule to watch a shot blocking fest for here forward. if they think they can win that way, go for it, but its not fun. its boring and painful.

we are not yet in the dvr generation. it may be that i give up center ice and keep up with the box score. it may be that i just dvr the games from here out. what i know is that i cant forgive this girlfriend right now. they need to prove that they deserve my forgiveness.

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05-13-2012, 10:58 AM
  #981
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Like I said, the identity resembles that which has failed the Caps in the playoffs for the past 30 years.

The identity of 'keep it close and hope for a late goal' sucks.
That's horsecrap. The player that the old Caps never had was Ovechkin. All he has to do is pull his overinflated head out of his ass.

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05-13-2012, 11:01 AM
  #982
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
That goal scoring is a whole lot less replaceable than Semin's production.
i guess the real question and where the disagreements sits is which 54 pt players are you considering? you have 54pt players that fall into the chris clark catagory. upward swinging/potential career season that is that player's peak, players with a long resume of delivering steadily at that level, OR a player that has proven to have significant upside beyond that.

troy brouwer could well be a 50pt/20 goal player more often that not. would you really rather have a 20 goal player who's upside would 22 goals or a 20 goal scorer who's upside could be 50?

my guess is that the argument against your 54pt player is that semin could win an art ross trophy and the troy brouwer's and jusi jokinen's of the world cant come close to that.

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05-13-2012, 11:04 AM
  #983
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That's horsecrap. The player that the old Caps never had was Ovechkin. All he has to do is pull his overinflated head out of his ass.
?

The personnel doesn't resemble the Caps of old.

The identity Dale's trying to establish certainly does. Cycle, grind it out, don't take too many risks and hope to pull it out at the end.

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05-13-2012, 11:05 AM
  #984
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i guess the real question and where the disagreements sits is which 54 pt players are you considering? you have 54pt players that fall into the chris clark catagory. upward swinging/potential career season that is that player's peak, players with a long resume of delivering steadily at that level, OR a player that has proven to have significant upside beyond that.

troy brouwer could well be a 50pt/20 goal player more often that not. would you really rather have a 20 goal player who's upside would 22 goals or a 20 goal scorer who's upside could be 50?

my guess is that the argument against your 54pt player is that semin could win an art ross trophy and the troy brouwer's and jusi jokinen's of the world cant come close to that.
Alex Semin is 28 years old. He's played in the NHL for 7 full years and in pro leagues for 9 full years. Let's stop pretending he is going to reach new heights. And absolutely let's stop paying him on potential upside. That typically stops around 23.

If he signed the same deal Brouwer did and you told me I had to pick one or the other, I might pick Semin. Maybe.

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05-13-2012, 11:07 AM
  #985
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i guess the real question and where the disagreements sits is which 54 pt players are you considering? you have 54pt players that fall into the chris clark catagory. upward swinging/potential career season that is that player's peak, players with a long resume of delivering steadily at that level, OR a player that has proven to have significant upside beyond that.

troy brouwer could well be a 50pt/20 goal player more often that not. would you really rather have a 20 goal player who's upside would 22 goals or a 20 goal scorer who's upside could be 50?

my guess is that the argument against your 54pt player is that semin could win an art ross trophy and the troy brouwer's and jusi jokinen's of the world cant come close to that.
I'd take a 21 goal/54 point Troy Brouwer 100 times out of 100 over Semin at the salary he'll command.

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05-13-2012, 11:07 AM
  #986
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
?

The personnel doesn't resemble the Caps of old.

The identity Dale's trying to establish certainly does. Cycle, grind it out, don't take too many risks and hope to pull it out at the end.
If they continue to move in that direction, I just don't think it's fair to compare the current caps with the old caps, because the old caps always lacked a gamebreaker. We have two.

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05-13-2012, 11:14 AM
  #987
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If they continue to move in that direction, I just don't think it's fair to compare the current caps with the old caps, because the old caps always lacked a gamebreaker. We have two.
Well the move in the direction seems to neuter any offensive creativity that our game breakers have.

And Bondra was definitely a gamebreaker.

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05-13-2012, 11:18 AM
  #988
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Bondra had a postseason gpg of .375

Alex sits at .588; even if you limit it to the past two years of trap hockey, he's at .435

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05-13-2012, 11:24 AM
  #989
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Bondra had a postseason gpg of .375

Alex sits at .588; even if you limit it to the past two years of trap hockey, he's at .435
Bonzai also played in the very defensive clutch-and-grab era.

I mean, I'm not saying peak Bondra was the same level of gamebreaker as peak Ovechkin--not many in the history of the game were. I just think it's false to say the Caps of old had no game breakers.

And I'd take 95-98 Bondra over 2010-12 Ovechkin.

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05-13-2012, 11:30 AM
  #990
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
?

The personnel doesn't resemble the Caps of old.

The identity Dale's trying to establish certainly does. Cycle, grind it out, don't take too many risks and hope to pull it out at the end.
Are we watching the same games? I see little emphasis placed on cycling, or at least any serious attempt to make it successful. Our dump-ins are the equivalent of a football punt. Get it deep, make them go the length of the ice, hope for a terrible play by the opponent. How many times have you seen our cycle end prematurely with a pass along the boards to nobody but an opponent, while the forward who should have been there is heading for a line change or hustling back to set up in our defensive zone slot.

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05-13-2012, 11:45 AM
  #991
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Are we watching the same games? I see little emphasis placed on cycling, or at least any serious attempt to make it successful. Our dump-ins are the equivalent of a football punt. Get it deep, make them go the length of the ice, hope for a terrible play by the opponent. How many times have you seen our cycle end prematurely with a pass along the boards to nobody but an opponent, while the forward who should have been there is heading for a line change or hustling back to set up in our defensive zone slot.
This.

Hard to imagine a small team built to run-and-gun isn't good at the grinder stuff.

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05-13-2012, 11:46 AM
  #992
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I think you guys are going in the right direction You have become a very good defensive team and this series was as even as you can get. The goalie Holtby impressed me and you even blocked more shots than the Rangers did. Luckily my team was able to win that triple OT game otherwise you guys would have beaten us again. I think this series with the Caps was much tougher than the devils series coming up will be. Once again great series guys and hopefully we dont have to see you again in the playoffs because you give the rangers many problems

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05-13-2012, 11:49 AM
  #993
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This.

Hard to imagine a small team built to run-and-gun isn't good at the grinder stuff.
I agree the fit probably isn't there, but the Caps aren't a small team. They're among the largest, if not *the* largest, in the league. Even if you think that's mostly from the D you can't really call them small overall.

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05-13-2012, 11:51 AM
  #994
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Bonzai also played in the very defensive clutch-and-grab era.

I mean, I'm not saying peak Bondra was the same level of gamebreaker as peak Ovechkin--not many in the history of the game were. I just think it's false to say the Caps of old had no game breakers.

And I'd take 95-98 Bondra over 2010-12 Ovechkin.
They had one game breaker who rarely broke games in the postseason. So stop please...

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05-13-2012, 11:52 AM
  #995
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Yes. The Caps are the biggest team in the league. They're also one of the least physical, and worse along the boards in the league. I don't know how they manage that with their size.

On the cycling thing: Yes, they suck at it, but it's quite clear that's the direction Dale wants to go on offense. Cycle in the corners and hope to take a penalty.

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05-13-2012, 11:52 AM
  #996
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
?

The personnel doesn't resemble the Caps of old.

The identity Dale's trying to establish certainly does. Cycle, grind it out, don't take too many risks and hope to pull it out at the end.
To be fair, that is also the Bruins' and Rangers' playoff game-plan. You won one series by a goal, lost one series by a goal. I wouldn't get too upset about it, it's an effective playoff strategy, really.

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05-13-2012, 11:53 AM
  #997
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They had one game breaker who rarely broke games in the postseason. So stop please...
Jesus Christ. Is it that hard to understand?

What's one of the major reasons that game breaker rarely broke games in the postseason? The way the team played.

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05-13-2012, 11:54 AM
  #998
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To be fair, that is also the Bruins' and Rangers' playoff game-plan. You won one series by a goal, lost one series by a goal. I wouldn't get too upset about it, it's an effective playoff strategy, really.
Sigh. The Rangers and Bruins also have a franchise goalie. And they're built for that type of game. The Caps aren't.

And how many times in the past decade has that strategy won a Cup?

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05-13-2012, 11:57 AM
  #999
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I agree the fit probably isn't there, but the Caps aren't a small team. They're among the largest, if not *the* largest, in the league. Even if you think that's mostly from the D you can't really call them small overall.
Fair enough. I meant we play small. I should have said soft. Schultz, Green, MoJo and others are not small but they aren't physical at all.

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05-13-2012, 12:15 PM
  #1000
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To all the people who are hopeful that Hunter can improve on what we've done this season, I ask you this:

How can you possibly defend his style of play and think it'll be successful? This style leaves no room for error. One bad penalty, one bad goal, or one unlucky bounce and we've pretty much lost the game.

Hunter's dump-n-chase is pointless. The point of dumping the puck in is to try and force turnovers and bad passes by forechecking. He never let us forecheck so we just constantly kept giving up possession and rushes against us. A lot of the times we just let the opposition walk right through the neutral zone and into our zone.

We're playing hockey here, not soccer. We can't keep playing one goal games everytime and hope to be successful.

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