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Best D-man in the 11 draft

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Old
05-13-2012, 08:18 PM
  #76
Nullus Reverentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Of course it's flawed. Your using the reasoning that because Murphy was ranked Top 5 at some point months before the draft by independant agencies, it somehow confirms that he has more upside than Brodin. That alone, just doesn't work. Why did he fall? What did Brodin rise? Why did Brodin go higher?

You cannot simply use a draft ranking to prove a point when you categorically ignore the draft results.

Before you say we are twisting your words. We are not. You have questioned Brodin's "elite upside" based on his draft position. Well the player you think has higher upside, was drafted below. I don't see how you don't see the utter ridiculous of this.



I haven't speculated anything. So the above is irrelevant. Your speculation is basically your own opinion. Your opinion cannot be construed as reputable, given you do not know where NHL teams had him ranked, given you are assuming draft position somehow definitively predicts potential.



I haven't discussed any players or their abilities. I have responded to something which i see as fundamentally flawed. You used a false, contradicted measurement of potential.




Do you not read and understand what you write? Only explanation for the above.



During the time surrounding the draft? What does this mean? Nothing. The only thing to look at our draft results. What you percieve to be hype, or the things you heard months before are not that relevant.

If Bordin had elite potential he'd have gone higher, or atleast recieved consideration for such? Well firstly, you don't know whether he recieved consideration, given you don't access to such knowledge. Consideration is impossible to measure given we'd need to talk to NHL teams about their rankings.

Secondly, i'd suggest going 10th overall, he must be pretty highly regarded. He didn't go 100th .... he's a high 1st round pick. Anyway, Murphy went after, yet he has potential?

BUT IF MURPHY HAD ELITE POTENTIAL HE WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE HIGHLY REGARDED AND HE WOULD HAVE GOT CONSIDERATION.

.... See. See how the above is absolutely ridiculous.



Developed to a significant level based on whose opinion? Brodin had an excellent season and looks to be a sure fire impact NHL defender.

Upside isn't merely offensive, and there are various ways to bring a big and important contribution to a team. Of course it isn't statistical measurable, so it becomes sexier to simple side with offensive totals.



Percieved by who? You base your opinions on draft rankings and media hype, given how else would you form an opinion of Brodin?

I percieve Brodin to have elite NHL upside. I think he can become a world class defender. I don't think he'll be producing 50-60 point seasons regularly, but then such totals aren't required to be an elite NHL defenseman.

The problem you seem to have is you think projections and views on prospects remain stationary. Unfortunately, they do not.
You really need to stop seperating posts into 7 different sections. It's not worth the hassle to reply to it all.

I'll address a few things quickly, I don't want to waste team getting into a pitching match.

I'm not reffering to agencies ranking Murphy in the top 5, I'm reffering to reports that he's a top 5 talent and could go, not an ISS whatever ranking. We never heard any reports talking about Brodin in the same way.

I still don't know what the **** you're talking about with:

Quote:
Secondly, i'd suggest going 10th overall, he must be pretty highly regarded. He didn't go 100th .... he's a high 1st round pick. Anyway, Murphy went after, yet he has potential?
You've said that in two straight posts and it's pure nonsense. You're clearly not reffering to anything in my posts. When you said the above is "absolutely ridiculous", it's because you can't decipher a single thing you said. It's broken english, it makes no sense.

I never said Brodin didn't have potential, I said he doesn't have elite potential, and that guys like Larrson/Hamilton/Murphy do, and just because Brodin went 10th doesn't mean he has more. Brodin was and still is a safe pick for that, Murphy had concerns that could hurt his chance to reach his potential, and that's why he dropped to 12th. Hamilton likely the same reasons.

Nobody talked about Brodin's "elite" potential (These boards are the first place you'll hear it), but they did with Murphy/Larsson/Hamilton. You're speculating by saying it could have happened.

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Old
05-13-2012, 08:19 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judge301 View Post
I'm surprised so many people still have Brodin ahead of Klefbom. The was a thread here several days ago in which Klefbom and Brodin's coach had stated Klefbom had surpassed Brodin as a dman. I'm not stating this as a known fact. Merely an observation in which I'm surprised Klefbom isn't getting more love. I think Brodin is great so please no attacks.
What I understand Klefbom has been getting more ice time and has even been playing on the PP. Brodin will be a outstanding offensive D, but Klefbom has pass him as a better all around D.

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Old
05-13-2012, 08:30 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
What I understand Klefbom has been getting more ice time and has even been playing on the PP. Brodin will be a outstanding offensive D, but Klefbom has pass him as a better all around D.
Would love to see this article, I'm fairly certain you misunderstood as Klefbom's ice time increased during the later part of the season compared to the start of the year but he was not stealing time from Brodin who had several games over the 25 minute mark.

Edit: Oh I think the guy from last page was referring to the HF top 50 ratings in which all I can say is not to take those at face value.


Last edited by Ovechkid08: 05-13-2012 at 08:46 PM.
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Old
05-13-2012, 08:37 PM
  #79
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Just wait. In like 15 years Gabriel Beaupré or some random-ass guy will be considered the best player taken in the draft

I like present-day debates and speculation but everybody should put away their crystal balls.

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Old
05-13-2012, 11:00 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judge301 View Post
I'm surprised so many people still have Brodin ahead of Klefbom. The was a thread here several days ago in which Klefbom and Brodin's coach had stated Klefbom had surpassed Brodin as a dman. I'm not stating this as a known fact. Merely an observation in which I'm surprised Klefbom isn't getting more love. I think Brodin is great so please no attacks.
I remember that article. The quote about Klefbom is from a Swedish fan, not the coach.


Last edited by Minnesota: 05-13-2012 at 11:21 PM.
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Old
05-13-2012, 11:43 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota View Post
I remember that article. The quote about Klefbom is from a Swedish fan, not the coach.
Perhaps, I'm quite certain it was the coach though.

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Old
05-14-2012, 12:01 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovechkid08 View Post
Would love to see this article, I'm fairly certain you misunderstood as Klefbom's ice time increased during the later part of the season compared to the start of the year but he was not stealing time from Brodin who had several games over the 25 minute mark.

Edit: Oh I think the guy from last page was referring to the HF top 50 ratings in which all I can say is not to take those at face value.
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...ear-in-sweden/

There is a reference to it in this article.



This pic of Klefbom being interviewed after scoring the winning goal in a game that he was viciously cross checked in the mouth. Now that's Oiler hockey old school!!


Last edited by judge301: 05-14-2012 at 12:09 AM.
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Old
05-14-2012, 12:29 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judge301 View Post
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...ear-in-sweden/

There is a reference to it in this article.



This pic of Klefbom being interviewed after scoring the winning goal in a game that he was viciously cross checked in the mouth. Now that's Oiler hockey old school!!
May want to reread that article, Martin Lunden, the guy that made the statement comparing the two has the esteemed qualification of running a blog entitled Swedish Oil, in the header for his site this is what he says himself "I'm a deep rooted Edmonton Oilers fan since early 90's, writing mainly about the Oilers. This is my writings about Edmonton Oilers - from a crazy Swede's perspective. And nevermind the spelling- and grammatical errors on this blog." So an Oiler's fan in Sweden made a widespread comment like that and the Edmonton Journal actually picked up and tried to portray him as an inside source

Edit: this was the guy's quote after the draft on the pick, I'm not saying he's biased but... "Both Brodin and Klefbom comes from the ultimate Swedish winning culture and with Klefbom being the bigger one (size-wise) it’s more or less the ultimate pick for the Oilers. Klefbom is an ace. Not only am I happy we didn’t pick Larsson, I’m also thrilled we ended up with Klefbom, not only is Stu a magnificent *******, the pick itself is equally magnificent and I for one wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up being a future fan-favorite among Oil-fans."


Last edited by Ovechkid08: 05-14-2012 at 12:57 AM.
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Old
05-14-2012, 07:56 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wKetch22 View Post


You forgot the OHL defenseman of the year LMAO
Thought I had him at #3, my bad lol. Yea he's definitely Top 5.

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Old
05-14-2012, 09:37 AM
  #85
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According to HF's top 50 prospects article it would be:

Adam Larsson (He's not there, but I assume he'd be the top-ranked guy)
Dougie Hamilton
Oscar Klefbom
Nathan Beaulieu
Joe Morrow
Jonas Brodin
Jamie Oleksiak

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Old
05-14-2012, 09:59 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Prophet of Glennie View Post


There's no point posting if you're just going to scream "You're wrong! You're wrong! You're wrong?" without putting any effort in reason behind it. And your reason for not giving a reason is laughibly bad.
And there you've proven my point mightily. I made a post (immediately prior to the quoted one) which explicitly outlined why your argument was demonstrably false, but you simply ignored it, continued using your bad argument, and cried about someone pointing out you were wrong.

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Old
05-14-2012, 10:14 AM
  #87
Nullus Reverentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
And there you've proven my point mightily. I made a post (immediately prior to the quoted one) which explicitly outlined why your argument was demonstrably false, but you simply ignored it, continued using your bad argument, and cried about someone pointing out you were wrong.
No you didn't, you posted a rumour and a quote that can be anything.

If you want to argue actually think of a reason. I heard a rumour every team in the NHL had RNH 30th except Edmonton. That's your logic.

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Old
05-14-2012, 11:22 AM
  #88
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These were my rankings on draft day:

1. Adam Larsson
2. Dougie Hamilton
3. Ryan Murphy
4. Duncan Siemens
5. Nathan Beaulieu
6. Oscar Klefbom
7. Jonas Brodin
8. Joe Morrow
9. Jamie Oleksiak
10. Scott Mayfield

And now:

1. Adam Larsson
2. Dougie Hamilton
3. Ryan Murphy
4. Nathan Beaulieu
5. Oscar Klefbom
6. Jonas Brodin
7. Duncan Siemens
8. Joe Morrow
9. Jamie Oleksiak
10. Stuart Percy

Basically Siemens just fell but that usually happens when you are a defensive defenceman.

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Old
05-14-2012, 11:32 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judge301 View Post
I'm surprised so many people still have Brodin ahead of Klefbom. The was a thread here several days ago in which Klefbom and Brodin's coach had stated Klefbom had surpassed Brodin as a dman. I'm not stating this as a known fact. Merely an observation in which I'm surprised Klefbom isn't getting more love. I think Brodin is great so please no attacks.
this guy points out who actually said that in the thread. We hear what we want to hear...lol i know it's just tire pumping encouragement from a fellow swede but i still get excited about the quotes praising Brodin from his national team teammates.

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Old
05-14-2012, 11:37 AM
  #90
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Siemens is the youngest of the bunch IIRC (if he was a few days younger, we'd rank for this draft) and had an injury plagued year. If/Once his offense develops, he should be top 5.

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Old
05-14-2012, 12:00 PM
  #91
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Beaulieu is big, skilled, and he is improving at a good pace.

I'll gamble of Larsson and Hamilton ahead of him. I'll slot him 3rd.

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Old
05-14-2012, 12:10 PM
  #92
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Larsson pretty easily for me.

Hamilton 2nd.

Brodin 3rd.

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Old
05-14-2012, 12:20 PM
  #93
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Hasn't Siemens been outplayed by his teammate Darren Dietz (5th rounder) this year?

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Old
05-14-2012, 12:32 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspirine View Post
Hasn't Siemens been outplayed by his teammate Darren Dietz (5th rounder) this year?
No, I wouldn't go that far.

Siemens was the Blades playoff MVP for a reason.

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Old
05-14-2012, 02:27 PM
  #95
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It's Larsson ATM but I believe Hamilton has the highest ceiling of them all. He's just less likely to reach it. Dmen are hard to predict though.

I really like Musil. Not saying he's a top 3 guy in the draft, but I think he's being underrated.

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Old
05-14-2012, 03:21 PM
  #96
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That Edmonton Journal article has caused a lot of confusion lately. Tricky journalists interchanging quotes from Edmonton bloggers with Swedish head coaches.

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Old
05-14-2012, 04:43 PM
  #97
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Hamilton
Larsson
Murphy

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Old
05-14-2012, 07:12 PM
  #98
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This is how I see it:
1) Larsson - Is a fantastic talent. I wouldn't have been disappointed at the time if Edmonton picked him 1st overall. Knowing what I know now, if we hadn't picked RNH, I would have been very disappointed.
2) Hamilton - Great overall talent. Good defensively, and very underrated defensively. Arguably the best D in the CHL this year!
3) Brodin - I want to be a homer and say Klefbom (Klef may still very well be the best all-round D), but at this point Brodin is the better player. Not necessarily the better defenseman, but much better offensively. He just seems so much more active...he reminds me of Karlsson (Ott)
4) Klefbom - In my opinion, the better defensive defenceman than Brodin, but his offense hasn't caught up to his game as of yet. As a shutdown D, on par with Larsson. Was the top D at the WJC, where many of the top defensive propects from the 2010 & 2011 draft played.
5) Morrow - Very good offensively, and also responsible defensively. Was the heart and soul of a very good Portland Winterhawks team.

The reason I don't think Murphy is in the top 5 is because I think his game is not going to translate as well in the NHL. He is very good offensively, but has some question marks in his defensive game.

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