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05-15-2012, 10:15 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
I never got to see him play, and I consider it quite a travesty. Such a talented player. It's a shame we don't try and dig into that Russian goldmine with consistency after all of those players we got from there.

It's not the same though. Fedorov was produced by the USSR. He was a 'captain' in the army, as the "Red Army" team was indeed a military unit. They selected the best players in the Soviet Union, and then put them through intensive training (physical strenth/endurance, skating, skills, etc.). It was similar to a national team development program today, but more intensive.

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05-16-2012, 03:43 AM
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Best Russian NHL player ever?
So far imo. Although Malkin does have a long carrer in front of him and is looking better every year.

Best line ever in the World Juniors:

Mogilny-Fedorov-Bure

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05-16-2012, 04:46 AM
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^It's amazing how overrated Malkin has become.

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Originally Posted by killbuttman* View Post
They should retire 3 jerseys over the last 3 decades...19, 5, 91. Done. Next.

Shanny and Igor and Hasek didn't spend enough time here. Chelios was at his best elsewhere. Ozzie, Draper, Maltby, Homer had longevity, but were never considered elite in their roles. Ozzie has elite stats, but that's more a function of longevity. Few considered him a top 5 goalie at any stage in his life. Pav and Zee have a chance to be retired. Both guys need 4-5 more years of very productive play to be considered.
LOL we're so smug that we think we've cracked a formula that doesn't even exist. Like Illitch is just sitting in his office reading this forum for inspiration, ticking off the list we made. Elite at his position? Need (x) amount of productive years?

We can justify his departure but it happened the way it happened. I wouldn't be hurt if he didn't get his name up there. He chose to leave us after we offered him 50 million dollars and eventually took less to play in California and lazy it up. To me those rafters aren't just for skill, they're for being true Wings and he blew it at the end choosing another team over us. As long as they stay 'til the end I'd rather have 13 and 40 up there.

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05-18-2012, 05:11 AM
  #54
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The decision on Fedorov's number is the decision whether DRW should be a blue collar team, or a team of finesse and flair. Hard work, or pure talent.

Fedorov was a great player, but left the organization in a disrespectful way. There are probably more factors to this, and I don't know all the details in the Fedorov exodus. Retiring his number and not retiring Draper's sends the message that DRW premiers talent over hard work, sacrifice and loyalty.

Guys like Draper, Maltby, Osgood and Holmstrom are better role models. They use a more limited set of skill and mix it with hard work. Draper never tried to maximize his salary signing with Hurricanes. He never left the team for California. He actually choose to retire instead of playing one more season in some other team.

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05-18-2012, 08:02 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by GentlemanMasher View Post
We can justify his departure but it happened the way it happened. I wouldn't be hurt if he didn't get his name up there. He chose to leave us after we offered him 50 million dollars and eventually took less to play in California and lazy it up. To me those rafters aren't just for skill, they're for being true Wings and he blew it at the end choosing another team over us. As long as they stay 'til the end I'd rather have 13 and 40 up there.
This keeps coming up. Fedorov deferred on Ilitch's offer saying he was going through a divorce (which he was). I was reading the comments on a KK entry and someone had the gall to post that Fedorov was lying about the divorce and agent switchover. Really? He was peeved at his agency (shared by Kournikova) for 'introducing' her to Iglesias.

When talks resumed in February, the offer had been reduced ultimately to a three yr offer.

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Originally Posted by Peter Tosh View Post
The decision on Fedorov's number is the decision whether DRW should be a blue collar team, or a team of finesse and flair. Hard work, or pure talent.

Fedorov was a great player, but left the organization in a disrespectful way. There are probably more factors to this, and I don't know all the details in the Fedorov exodus. Retiring his number and not retiring Draper's sends the message that DRW premiers talent over hard work, sacrifice and loyalty.

Guys like Draper, Maltby, Osgood and Holmstrom are better role models. They use a more limited set of skill and mix it with hard work. Draper never tried to maximize his salary signing with Hurricanes. He never left the team for California. He actually choose to retire instead of playing one more season in some other team.

Respectfully disagree, Peter. Guy like Draper, Maltby and Homer aren't game changers. Remove or reduce Fedorov's playoff numbers, and you won't see the same results for the team. That's why some numbers belong in the rafters.

He was not disrespectful to the Wings. It's a business. If we make this personal, then they made a 'disrespectful' decision too when they decided to keep him when they knew he wanted out in 1998. They obviously had that right per the CBA. They also could have traded him for probably an immense return of assets. The holdout and matching poison pill offer sheet was a conscious choice they made (and let's not pretend they weren't lowballing an RFA who was a Hart, 2x Selke, Pearson and Cup winner).

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05-18-2012, 01:00 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
This keeps coming up. Fedorov deferred on Ilitch's offer saying he was going through a divorce (which he was). I was reading the comments on a KK entry and someone had the gall to post that Fedorov was lying about the divorce and agent switchover. Really? He was peeved at his agency (shared by Kournikova) for 'introducing' her to Iglesias.

When talks resumed in February, the offer had been reduced ultimately to a three yr offer.

When the best team in hockey offers you 50 million dollars and a contract that will take care of you until you retire, you don't make them wait. If you want to be there, you sign it instantly. Why wait if you really want to be a Wing? What logical reason would you have to hesitate? To balk proves to me he was contemplating other teams from the beginning. No one offered him more. He chose California over us. He was great, I still like him, and I'll appreciate his efforts always but he ain't going into those rafters. The standard's been set now and it's for true Wings.

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05-18-2012, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GentlemanMasher View Post
When the best team in hockey offers you 50 million dollars and a contract that will take care of you until you retire, you don't make them wait. If you want to be there, you sign it instantly. Why wait if you really want to be a Wing? What logical reason would you have to hesitate? To balk proves to me he was contemplating other teams from the beginning. No one offered him more. He chose California over us. He was great, I still like him, and I'll appreciate his efforts always but he ain't going into those rafters. The standard's been set now and it's for true Wings.
Sorry you cannot blow over the divorce story. Much has come out about Fedorov's struggles in his final year here. He had a money man ripping him off and was having a huge problem in his personal life. On top of that he switched agents. He told them to wait and his thanks was having the contract changed in really what can only be described as insulting. Imagine somebody pulling 10 million dollars right off the table on you I don't care that you're a millionaire it would make anyone angry. Then they reduced it again in the final offer, just terrible. Given the way the cap played out we should thank our lucky stars he didn't ink it while his life was in shambles as you suggested. These guys are people and we know a great deal more about those negotiations than the Red Wings blinder stories that came out at the time and the vitriol that the fan-base felt.

I will admit I was hurt when he left and I didn't like him much at the time. But as the picture became clearer and a little time passed I remember everything he did for the Wings. And agree that certain parts of his leaving really did leave his control and really hurt him to a great degree. He left for California and wound up in Columbus, where he practically openly begged to be shipped to the Wings only to wind up in Washington.

To call him not a true Red Wing is bad. They don't have three banners without that guy, he was the most talented player on the team. Him not hanging in the rafters would be just as bad as Red Kelly not being there which is also a tragedy. I like that the Wings aren't the Pistons with Jersey retirements, but those two deserve and earned the right to be honored with that. I remember being at the Sawchuck retirement in the early 90's/late 80's don't remember the exact date, but it was sad that they had waited that long to honor a great that clearly belonged up there. It is good Ted Lindsay made nice quickly otherwise he would still be missing. That isn't how those honors should be handled and hope Sergei not only gets his jersey retired but quickly unlike how some of these others were handled.


Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 05-18-2012 at 01:20 PM.
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Old
05-18-2012, 01:49 PM
  #58
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this comment from ansar kahn (Mlive writer) sums up it pretty well for me

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Fedorov should have been a Red Wing for life and joined the exclusive group of players to have their numbers hung from the rafters at Joe Louis Arena. That won't happen now (unless Mike Ilitch says it should happen).

He got bad advice from many close to him (father, friends, financial advisor). It's unfortunate he listened and couldn't make his own decisions.

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05-18-2012, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Sorry you cannot blow over the divorce story. Much has come out about Fedorov's struggles in his final year here. He had a money man ripping him off and was having a huge problem in his personal life. On top of that he switched agents.
I'm not buying it. I could easily say the best thing to do during times like those would be to ensure you have financial security. 10 years and 50 million dollars would be just that. And if he wanted to be a Wing, bottom line, he would've signed it. If you want to be a life-long Wing, the best team in hockey, you take 50 million and don't make them waste their time waiting. All that other stuff reeks of cover story excuses for listening to a bunch of devils on his shoulder giving him stupid advice.

There's plenty of guys we wouldn't have won without, and not all of them are going to have their names up there. And not all of them chose Anaheim over us. Period. All I see are biased excuses from people who personally favor him and don't want anyone speaking ill of him. I like him too but he left the way he left and it ruined his chances. What next, Shanny? Ozzie? I'd rather keep the standards high than add someone who shouldn't be there just because I'm biased towards him.

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05-18-2012, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GentlemanMasher View Post
I'm not buying it. I could easily say the best thing to do during times like those would be to ensure you have financial security. 10 years and 50 million dollars would be just that. And if he wanted to be a Wing, bottom line, he would've signed it. If you want to be a life-long Wing, the best team in hockey, you take 50 million and don't make them waste their time waiting. All that other stuff reeks of cover story excuses for listening to a bunch of devils on his shoulder giving him stupid advice.

There's plenty of guys we wouldn't have won without, and not all of them are going to have their names up there. And not all of them chose Anaheim over us. Period. All I see are biased excuses from people who personally favor him and don't want anyone speaking ill of him. I like him too but he left the way he left and it ruined his chances. What next, Shanny? Ozzie? I'd rather keep the standards high than add someone who shouldn't be there just because I'm biased towards him.
Guess you don't know too many people that got divorced, much less a messy one where the spouse is leaving you for another dude. The last thing I want is her getting a chunk of my 50 million dollar contract because I signed it in haste without an agent while we were still legally married.

Also it was a five year contract not ten if I remember right.

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05-18-2012, 05:09 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by chances14 View Post
this comment from ansar kahn (Mlive writer) sums up it pretty well for me
Not sure why Ansar made this comment. I remember reading it and thinking he must have forgotten the details. He's almost pulling a Malik and reporting his feelings, not the reality.

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Originally Posted by GentlemanMasher View Post
I'm not buying it. I could easily say the best thing to do during times like those would be to ensure you have financial security. 10 years and 50 million dollars would be just that. And if he wanted to be a Wing, bottom line, he would've signed it. If you want to be a life-long Wing, the best team in hockey, you take 50 million and don't make them waste their time waiting. All that other stuff reeks of cover story excuses for listening to a bunch of devils on his shoulder giving him stupid advice.

There's plenty of guys we wouldn't have won without, and not all of them are going to have their names up there. And not all of them chose Anaheim over us. Period. All I see are biased excuses from people who personally favor him and don't want anyone speaking ill of him. I like him too but he left the way he left and it ruined his chances. What next, Shanny? Ozzie? I'd rather keep the standards high than add someone who shouldn't be there just because I'm biased towards him.
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Guess you don't know too many people that got divorced, much less a messy one where the spouse is leaving you for another dude. The last thing I want is her getting a chunk of my 50 million dollar contract because I signed it in haste without an agent while we were still legally married.

Also it was a five year contract not ten if I remember right.
He was dumping the agent, so had he signed that offer in December when Ilitch made the offer, the agent he wanted to dump would have gotten his commission too.

I think both of these are very good reasons to wait. I'm not sure what got botched on the Wings side though. That stunt about pulling the original offers and reducing them each time is really bizarre.

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05-18-2012, 09:44 PM
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I think both of these are very good reasons to wait. I'm not sure what got botched on the Wings side though. That stunt about pulling the original offers and reducing them each time is really bizarre.
I've always wondered what broke down there, because the pulling offers and reducing them does not sound like Ilitch's Red Wings at all.

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05-18-2012, 10:02 PM
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Then sign a one year deal worth enough to live on, wait it out and sign long term later. That is, if you really want to be a Wing. He just acted like his hands were tied when they never are in this league, there are ways to stay a Wing if you really want to. Overall it just sounds like fluff. I think Sergei loved the team and is a good guy but sometimes greed gets the better of him. It's possible. Unfortunate and staggering, but possible. Let's not forget his ugly holdout in 98 and the fact he was ready to become a Hurricane because of money.

And not to sound like I'm just out to dook on the guy, I'm not, but I won't ignore all the times when he infuriatingly would disappear for entire games. He was the best forward on the planet for many years and there would be times when he just stopped trying altogether. I'm not going to think it's the end of the world, he was a beast in the postseason, but so were a lot of other guys. Shanny ain't getting his number retired here. Neither is Ozzie. Fedorov could've, but he won't.

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05-18-2012, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by GentlemanMasher View Post
Then sign a one year deal worth enough to live on, wait it out and sign long term later. That is, if you really want to be a Wing. He just acted like his hands were tied when they never are in this league, there are ways to stay a Wing if you really want to. Overall it just sounds like fluff. I think Sergei loved the team and is a good guy but sometimes greed gets the better of him. It's possible. Unfortunate and staggering, but possible. Let's not forget his ugly holdout in 98 and the fact he was ready to become a Hurricane because of money.

And not to sound like I'm just out to dook on the guy, I'm not, but I won't ignore all the times when he infuriatingly would disappear for entire games. He was the best forward on the planet for many years and there would be times when he just stopped trying altogether. I'm not going to think it's the end of the world, he was a beast in the postseason, but so were a lot of other guys. Shanny ain't getting his number retired here. Neither is Ozzie. Fedorov could've, but he won't.

The 97-98 issue started with his fellow Russians, if I recall. They were making fun of him over something during his contract talks... I don't remember the details anymore but he said he'd never play in a Wings uniform after that.

There is something to his dad's influence. He was the one always harping to the Russian media about Sergei being underappreciated and that he was their best player, blah blah blah...I think people took the dad's comments as somehow being indicative of how Sergei felt.

Regarding the 1 yr deal, I don't think that was an option. I don't think the Wings made that kind of offer, plus at that time, players were restricted free agents until the age of 31. Sergei didn't hit UFA status until 2003.

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05-18-2012, 11:06 PM
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I've always wondered what broke down there, because the pulling offers and reducing them does not sound like Ilitch's Red Wings at all.
2 things:
1. The reported team meeting where the players voted on whether they wanted Fedorov back after hearing about the $50M offer. This was something Regner has talked about.
2. Speculation on my part, but the Wings saw the cap being a reality and scaled back their offer.

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05-18-2012, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter Tosh View Post
The decision on Fedorov's number is the decision whether DRW should be a blue collar team, or a team of finesse and flair. Hard work, or pure talent.

Fedorov was a great player, but left the organization in a disrespectful way. There are probably more factors to this, and I don't know all the details in the Fedorov exodus. Retiring his number and not retiring Draper's sends the message that DRW premiers talent over hard work, sacrifice and loyalty.

Guys like Draper, Maltby, Osgood and Holmstrom are better role models. They use a more limited set of skill and mix it with hard work. Draper never tried to maximize his salary signing with Hurricanes. He never left the team for California. He actually choose to retire instead of playing one more season in some other team.
Disrespectfully disagree.

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05-18-2012, 11:37 PM
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The 97-98 issue started with his fellow Russians, if I recall. They were making fun of him over something during his contract talks... I don't remember the details anymore but he said he'd never play in a Wings uniform after that.
Couldn't have been that bad. He broke that promise for a few more bucks.

If his dad's comments weren't indicative of how he help he shouldn't have left so much room for doubt.

Quote:
Regarding the 1 yr deal, I don't think that was an option. I don't think the Wings made that kind of offer, plus at that time, players were restricted free agents until the age of 31. Sergei didn't hit UFA status until 2003.
I couldn't believe that our front office wouldn't be that unaccommodating for Sergei. I think he put himself between a rock and a hard place and paid for it. And if it was about the cap, then Sergei had to know, too. So he pretty much knew he'd be asking way too much. I just can't find a reason why he's some innocent victim here.

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05-19-2012, 01:35 AM
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Let's not forget his ugly holdout in 98 and the fact he was ready to become a Hurricane because of money.
Joe Sakic signed an offer sheet from the NY Rangers. You don't see anyone bringing that up when questioning his loyalty to the Avalanche organization. It's a business. Things happen.

Retiring numbers should have nothing to do with off ice distractions, such as player contracts.

The fact is Fedorov is one of the greatest Red Wings of all all-time. His number deserves to be up there.

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05-19-2012, 05:57 AM
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Retiring numbers should have nothing to do with off ice distractions, such as player contracts.
Amen.

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05-25-2012, 01:03 PM
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Hopefully this will be a Rodman thing where they retire it a decade from now after Mr. I has passed on

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05-25-2012, 10:02 PM
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Hopefully Mr. I and Sergei get it done together. It would be petty and foolish, otherwise. And i hope Mr. I is bigger than that

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05-26-2012, 05:50 PM
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Again, I wish DRW were a little less selective about retiring numbers and wouldn't wait until the player dies before retiring it. Still, I believe it will be travesty if #91 is not retired. Feds was a generational player on the DRW, along with Yzerman and Lids.

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05-27-2012, 12:25 PM
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I really wonder how the end of his career would have ended up had he stayed and had the chance to skate with both Zetterberg and Datsyuk. I really think his numbers would have stayed fairly high and not fallen off like they did.

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05-27-2012, 12:34 PM
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I think the Wings would have lost Datsyuk to Russia had Fedorov stayed.
Coming out of the cap, the Wings had to buy out Hatcher, Whitney and McCarty and signed Ozzie, Lilja, Cleary and Samuelsson to tiny contracts. On top of that, Shanny took a huge pay cut to stay ($2.5M, IIRC) and Yzerman came back for like $1.2M, a giant pay cut.

Fedorov making $7.6M? Even subtracting Lang's $3,8M, we're over the cap by $3.8M if we keep Fedorov.

Where else to cut? Buy out Draper at $2.2M? By out Homer for $2M?
IMO buying out Schneider would have been the way to go, but he was highly regarded by the Red Wings.
You'd have to have bought out Schneider and replaced him with a $500,000 player, then bought out a Homer and replaced him with a $1M player...

Keeping Fedorov would have been very difficult..
The other thing is ... Would Shanahan and Yzerman have accepted their tiny contracts if Fedorov was making $7.6M?

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06-01-2012, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ALF AmericanLionsFan View Post
I really wonder how the end of his career would have ended up had he stayed and had the chance to skate with both Zetterberg and Datsyuk. I really think his numbers would have stayed fairly high and not fallen off like they did.
I think the dynamic would have been really difficult, Feds would have been making so much money during the time they were coming in, that it just wouldn't have worked the same. Things worked out fine as it turned out. The Wings contended again. I was crushed when Feds left, and the way he left, but I have very little to complain about as far as his Wings career is concerned. Sometimes his heart and effort were questioned, but being a huge part of three sucessfull cup runs means I can overlook any flaws. Not everyone can be Nick Lidstrom

anywho, yeah, I do think the Wings are a bit bitter about the way Sergei left,and obviously he didn't retire a Wing, but what he did do when he was a Wing should not be overlooked.13 seasons, right?

I recently read an article where Feds was talking about how at some times with the Wings, he had a hard time coping with how he always seemed to be blamed when things went wrong for the team, and how looking back he felt the way he handled it was "Being a jerk about it" but didn't realize it until he looked back retrospectively some years later.

I think the main problem with him is he was a little too human. Stevie Y was Mr Perfect, and even when Feds could outperform him, he was still Mr Perfect.Sergei felt he had to constantly be in his shadow, but just couldn't ever do enough.


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