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Around the NHL | Congrats to the LA Kings! | Part XVIII

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Old
05-26-2012, 02:34 PM
  #151
Rumcajs
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Okay so the game plan let our players leave, win a championship, then return to Ottawa.

Kelly- Check
Volchy-
Fisher-

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05-26-2012, 02:53 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midas View Post
Okay so the game plan let our players leave, win a championship, then return to Ottawa.

Kelly- Check
Volchy-
Fisher-
Hossa-Check

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Old
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM
  #153
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I came to say this. Please cheer for us and Volchy. He deserves a Cup for all the blood, sweat, and broken bones, concussions he has had putting his body on the line for our two teams.

He deserves a Cup.
It would be nice to see Volchy raise the Cup.

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05-26-2012, 03:15 PM
  #154
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Okay so the game plan let our players leave, win a championship, then return to Ottawa.

Kelly- Check
Volchy-
Fisher-
Heatley-

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Old
05-26-2012, 04:56 PM
  #155
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Okay so the game plan let our players leave, win a championship, then return to Ottawa.

Kelly- Check
Volchy-
Fisher-
Chara - Check (I wish )

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Old
05-26-2012, 07:39 PM
  #156
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Definatley would not mind Volchy winning a Cup. Ddude is a warrior.

One of the my favs when he was here...

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05-26-2012, 09:11 PM
  #157
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Definatley would not mind Volchy winning a Cup. Ddude is a warrior.

One of the my favs when he was here...
I agree completely...Although I hate Kovy with passion, Volchy winning would be nice

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05-26-2012, 09:47 PM
  #158
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Definatley would not mind Volchy winning a Cup. Ddude is a warrior.

One of the my favs when he was here...
These are two teams I don't hate.. I do hope the Kings win just so it's not a team in our conference that wins, but seeing Volchie lift the cup would be worth it.

I'm still leaning towards the Kings to winning it this year, but regardless it should be a good series.

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05-26-2012, 09:52 PM
  #159
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Oh, dudes. I am so pulling for Jersey for all the right reasons. Marty and Volchie for starters. Usually I root for the team that has eliminated our Senators, but in this case, I feel like Uncle Lou and Brian Murray are kindred spirits. Go Devils Go!

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05-26-2012, 10:54 PM
  #160
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Am I the only one who despises Martin Brodeur? He's a ****** person. Plus, he's fat and old. I hate fat people. I also hate old people.

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05-26-2012, 11:00 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
Am I the only one who despises Martin Brodeur? He's a ****** person. Plus, he's fat and old. I hate fat people. I also hate old people.


Gets divorced, marries the ex-wife of his ex-wifes half-brother.

That's some Jerry Springer **** right there.

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05-26-2012, 11:19 PM
  #162
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Gets divorced, marries the ex-wife of his ex-wifes half-brother.

That's some Jerry Springer **** right there.
That's slimy. Anyone who I've met who's had the misfortune of meeting him all say he's a major D-bag as well.

Its strange because, Patty Roy is one of my favorite all time players and he was the king of being an ass but I never disliked him because of it. Found it entertaining to be quite honest. Brodeur always just rubs me the wrong way. Plus, he is, at least in my eye, the most overrated player of all time. Great goalie but his career stats are massively inflated by the team and system he's played in his entire career. He's being dubbed the best of all time based on team stats and he's been given a couple Vezinas that he did not earn.

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05-26-2012, 11:35 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
Am I the only one who despises Martin Brodeur? He's a ****** person. Plus, he's fat and old. I hate fat people. I also hate old people.
Famous last words.

Explain the hate though cause I don't get it. I don't like what he did to his wife any more than the next guy but that just doesn't translate to a full hate-on for the guy. Personal experience?

P.S. you're up in the mock draft.

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05-27-2012, 12:25 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post

Brodeur always just rubs me the wrong way. Plus, he is, at least in my eye, the most overrated player of all time. Great goalie but his career stats are massively inflated by the team and system he's played in his entire career. He's being dubbed the best of all time based on team stats and he's been given a couple Vezinas that he did not earn.
If you don't like Brodeur, thats fine. I respect your opinion but entirely disagree with you. Here is why:

1) Brodeur has played for 21 YEARs in the NHL, playing for the same team at an elite level. How many other teams can boast that? He is STILL playing!

2) Brodeur is a three-time Stanley Cup Champion;

3) Brodeur has two Olympic gold medals; nevermind how many Team Canada medals he won during the summer championships of his career;

4) Brodeur is the NHL's ALL TIME leader in regular season wins, shutouts, and games played!

5) Brodeur has won at least 30 games in every season since 1995–96, with the exception of 2010–11 season and an injury-shortened 2008–09 season in which he played just 31 games.

6) Brodeur is the only goalie in NHL history to win 8 40+ win regular seasons;

7) Brodeur is a four-time Vezina Trophy winner;

8) Brodeur is a five-time Jennings Trophy winner;

9) Martin Brodeur participated in ten... TEN NHL All star events;

10) Brodeur's prowess at puck handling directly led the NHL to change its rules regarding where goalies were allowed to handle the puck outside of the goal crease...

yes, Brodeur CHANGED the way hockey is played in the NHL.

............

We are privileged to be a part of a generation who watched Martin Brodeur play. I believe the Devils are a dynasty team for the last fifteen years BECAUSE of Brodeur.

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Old
05-27-2012, 01:14 AM
  #165
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I gotta agree with Savannah on this one. Brodeur is an unbelievable goaltender. I also don't see where the d-bag stuff comes from? He seems very class and respectful. Also, the way he plays the game is phenomenal, always seems to have an awkward saving position on shots but makes em count

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05-27-2012, 01:47 AM
  #166
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Anyone who say's Brodeur is overrated never took the time to really watch him play.

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Old
05-27-2012, 01:56 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Savannah Skunk View Post
If you don't like Brodeur, thats fine. I respect your opinion but entirely disagree with you. Here is why:

1) Brodeur has played for 21 YEARs in the NHL, playing for the same team at an elite level. How many other teams can boast that? He is STILL playing!

2) Brodeur is a three-time Stanley Cup Champion;

3) Brodeur has two Olympic gold medals; nevermind how many Team Canada medals he won during the summer championships of his career;

4) Brodeur is the NHL's ALL TIME leader in regular season wins, shutouts, and games played!

5) Brodeur has won at least 30 games in every season since 1995–96, with the exception of 2010–11 season and an injury-shortened 2008–09 season in which he played just 31 games.

6) Brodeur is the only goalie in NHL history to win 8 40+ win regular seasons;

7) Brodeur is a four-time Vezina Trophy winner;

8) Brodeur is a five-time Jennings Trophy winner;

9) Martin Brodeur participated in ten... TEN NHL All star events;

10) Brodeur's prowess at puck handling directly led the NHL to change its rules regarding where goalies were allowed to handle the puck outside of the goal crease...

yes, Brodeur CHANGED the way hockey is played in the NHL.

............

We are privileged to be a part of a generation who watched Martin Brodeur play. I believe the Devils are a dynasty team for the last fifteen years BECAUSE of Brodeur.
Not disputing anything you're saying here but almost everything you listed does not necessarily prove that Brodeur is not overrated.

The argument is that he greatly benefitted from playing in the Devils defence-first system for so long that he's had to do very little to acheive what he has. I think it's fair to say he has benefitted but not nearly to the extent that it's sometimes characterized by his detractors.

However, even granting that he has benefitted from a system, personally, I don't buy it...I saw those games growing up and back in the day the buck stopped with Marty. He was a huge reason for the Devils' success; the lynch pin that held those winning teams together and why they were able to get away with what they did.

Now that the Devils have significantly changed their style Brodeur is still playing great even though he's getting grey so it's a bit harder to hate on his game now than it's ever been IMO.

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05-27-2012, 02:24 AM
  #168
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Not disputing anything you're saying here but almost everything you listed does not necessarily prove that Brodeur is not overrated.

The argument is that he greatly benefitted from playing in the Devils defence-first system for so long that he's had to do very little to acheive what he has. I think it's fair to say he has benefitted but not nearly to the extent that it's sometimes characterized by his detractors.

However, even granting that he has benefitted from a system, personally, I don't buy it...I saw those games growing up and back in the day the buck stopped with Marty. He was a huge reason for the Devils' success; the lynch pin that held those winning teams together and why they were able to get away with what they did.

Now that the Devils have significantly changed their style Brodeur is still playing great even though he's getting grey so it's a bit harder to hate on his game now than it's ever been IMO.
I argue that the Devils wisely realized that the cornerstone of their franchise was and is the BEST goaltender of all-time and they designed and forged their team to maximize that advantage.

As far as overrating, I guess Lemieux and Gretzky also were overrated due to the era/team/supporting cast/twinkie they ate before a match/ etc.....

Even if Brodeur was 'overrated,' his achievements transcend. He has proven to be the best Goalie in the history of the NHL, just like the other legendary players of the NHL have done.

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05-27-2012, 02:28 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Savannah Skunk View Post
If you don't like Brodeur, thats fine. I respect your opinion but entirely disagree with you. Here is why:

1) Brodeur has played for 21 YEARs in the NHL, playing for the same team at an elite level. How many other teams can boast that? He is STILL playing!

2) Brodeur is a three-time Stanley Cup Champion;

3) Brodeur has two Olympic gold medals; nevermind how many Team Canada medals he won during the summer championships of his career;

4) Brodeur is the NHL's ALL TIME leader in regular season wins, shutouts, and games played!

5) Brodeur has won at least 30 games in every season since 1995–96, with the exception of 2010–11 season and an injury-shortened 2008–09 season in which he played just 31 games.

6) Brodeur is the only goalie in NHL history to win 8 40+ win regular seasons;

7) Brodeur is a four-time Vezina Trophy winner;

8) Brodeur is a five-time Jennings Trophy winner;

9) Martin Brodeur participated in ten... TEN NHL All star events;

10) Brodeur's prowess at puck handling directly led the NHL to change its rules regarding where goalies were allowed to handle the puck outside of the goal crease...

yes, Brodeur CHANGED the way hockey is played in the NHL.

............

We are privileged to be a part of a generation who watched Martin Brodeur play. I believe the Devils are a dynasty team for the last fifteen years BECAUSE of Brodeur.
Like I said, he's labeled the best goalie of all time because of TEAM STATS, like the ones you've listed off. I'm not saying he's a bad goalie, I'm saying he's not the greatest in NHL history. The puck handling is something I completely agree with. That was his best asset over his career imo and the Devils built a very successful system around that (while also sucking the life and enjoyment out of the sport...). That makes him a hall of famer, no doubt.

But when you start listing off achievements like 2 Olympic gold medals, I can only roll my eyes. Team Canada had to win in spite of Brodeur and turned to Luongo of all people in 2010. He was pure garbage and earned something by sitting on a bench.

Same can be said about his Vezina in 2008. The voters got that one wrong. Nabokov should have run away with it. It was a win based on reputation like Lidstrom last season over Weber.

And those cups were won behind defenses featuring Scott Niedermayer, Scott Stevens and Ken Daneyko. Brodeur never managed to snag the Conn Smyth either. Those teams were solid.

He's had an incredible career with plenty of silverware that he has rightfully earned and has earned himself a place in NHL history with that and his revolutionary style of play. I just don't like the pompous ass and I'll never call him the best goalie of all time.

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05-27-2012, 02:59 AM
  #170
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I just don't like the pompous ass and I'll never call him the best goalie of all time.
As I said, I respect your stance about not liking him. We all are entitled to our opinions.

Regarding the thought that his achievements derive from an overall "team" product featuring the likes of Neidermeyer and Stevens... didn't they retire quite sometime ago?

Brodeur keeps on racking up the wins, padding the stats, and distancing himself from Roy (not taking anything away from Roy). Last I checked, he was preparing for another Stanley Cup final without Stevens or Neidermeyer. He keeps on winning, the supporting cast keeps changing.

Perhaps the greatest thing about Brodeur is that he has dedicated his career (21 years) to one team. Not even Lidstrom (20) beats that.

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05-27-2012, 04:26 AM
  #171
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Isn't this the first time Brodeur has been in the finals without Stevens and Niedermayer? Don't know what you mean by 'another Stanley Cup final WITHOUT Stevens and Niedermayer'. Unless I'm misinterpreting that sentence?

He's done a whole lot of winning since they left... in the regular season. Since the lockout Jersey has really disappointed in the post season. Brodeur has been a really big part of that.

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05-27-2012, 08:33 AM
  #172
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Yeah, Brodeur's over-rated. The guy's only the winnignest goalie of all time.

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05-27-2012, 12:40 PM
  #173
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Isn't this the first time Brodeur has been in the finals without Stevens and Niedermayer? Don't know what you mean by 'another Stanley Cup final WITHOUT Stevens and Niedermayer'. Unless I'm misinterpreting that sentence?

He's done a whole lot of winning since they left... in the regular season. Since the lockout Jersey has really disappointed in the post season. Brodeur has been a really big part of that.
Yeah, it was really late and I could have worded that better. In a nutshell, I was simply illustrating that Brodeur is preparing for another cup final without Neidermeyer and Stevens. Yes, the Devils went through a number of years where their playoff performances left much to be desired. Other great clubs such as Detroit has endured this as well. Does that take anything away from Lidstrom's achievements? The Devils have always been a dangerous team and Brodeur a huge part of that.

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05-27-2012, 12:52 PM
  #174
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Yeah, Brodeur's over-rated. The guy's only the winnignest goalie of all time.
In fairness, I've yet to see someone dismiss Brodeur and his accomplishments, rather just suggest that they don't make him the greatest ever goalie. Most of his achievements speak more to a combination of longevity, performance, and quality of team, rather then individual merit.

Even at that, a strong case can be made for other Goalies over him.

Ken Dryden's win percentage is a full 10% higher then Brodeur's, to put that in perspective, Dryden's career win% is better then Brodeur's best season.

Hasek has 5 seasons with higher Sv% than Brodeur's best, and is .009 points higher over his career. Brodeur has more Shutouts, but Hasek was getting one every 9 games compared to every 10 for Brodeur (in case your wondering, Dryden was getting 1 every 8 and a half).

As far as wins go, Roy can hold his head up high knowing that his 151 Playoff wins are 40 more then Brodeur currently has. Brodeur would need to win the stanley cup 2 more times after this season to close that gap, and still have to put in a third extra season to pass Roy (including the 4 more wins he hopes to get this season).

As far as the Vezina goes (for what its worth), his four come in behind Dryden's 5 (in 8 seasons ), Hasek's 6, and Plante's 7. Roy comes up just short with 3.

I think it is a little unfair to say Brodeur's team made him look better then he is, but it certainly didn't hurt. The team put a system in place that they felt maximize their chances at winning, and who can blame them.

Anyways, my personal take is that looking at career totals only is a pretty lousy way to judge the quality of a goaltender.

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05-27-2012, 01:01 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Savannah Skunk View Post
Yeah, it was really late and I could have worded that better. In a nutshell, I was simply illustrating that Brodeur is preparing for another cup final without Neidermeyer and Stevens. Yes, the Devils went through a number of years where their playoff performances left much to be desired. Other great clubs such as Detroit has endured this as well. Does that take anything away from Lidstrom's achievements? The Devils have always been a dangerous team and Brodeur a huge part of that.
I'm not arguing the Devils being a dangerous team or Brodeur's role in that. Its obvious that he was/is. My simple argument is that he is not the greatest. But unfortunately you can't really have that discussion with anyone because all you're going to get from the Brodeur camp is "ALl time winningest *****es!!!" and the argument is over for them. Guess what? He's also the all time leader in losses by a massive margin. All that really speaks to is his longevity and don't think its really valid to use some of these stats to the basis of an argument. I certainly wouldn't say Gordie Howe is the greatest player of all time because he played the most games. Or that Mark Recchi is the 4th best player of all time because he sits 4th in all time games played. Playing for a long long time is impressive and should be admired but I don't think its grounds to declare someone the greatest.

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