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World Junior Championship Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Tsn: Ovechkin/Semin Join Russia

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Old
05-16-2012, 01:31 PM
  #76
Yakushev72
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
how about Green, Johanssen?
A few years ago, it looked like Green would be a star, but, IMO, that hasn't materialized. I agree with the premise that most of the pressure is on Ovechkin, and he is expected to carry the load. If he doesn't succeed in pushing the Caps over the top by himself, then he is labeled as disappointing and lacking intensity (if you can believe that)!

I am sick to death of hearing people ***** about Semin. The fact is that he is a talented player that scores goals, but he doesn't play a NA style, so he will continue to be the focus of criticism from fans and TV commentators alike. I'd love to see him move to the KHL just to end all the criticism, or at least get criticism from a different sphere. Young kids who want to come over to the CHL as a steppingstone to the NHL should be aware that they will be scrutinized, and later crucified if they don't measure up.

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05-16-2012, 01:41 PM
  #77
Yakushev72
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Originally Posted by 2525 View Post
I have a lot of respect for any player playing for his country.

I find Crosby's excuse lame. This is the second time he has had an excuse. If the Pens had beaten the Flyers he would still be playing.

Not sure about other countries but I know Hockey Canada treats the players first class all the way, even flying out their families. You can't give 2 frigging weeks to your country?

In fact I would go so far to say if a player turns down his country he doesn't play for them in the Olympics.

Just my opinion, don't beat me up
You are absolutely right! For Europeans, and Russians in particular, being selected for the WC team is a badge of honor and accomplishment. From what I gather, Canadians get no credit for it whatsoever, and it is a huge sacrifice to travel to Europe immediately after the season for 2 weeks, when they could be on a beach or a golf course. It gives me the impression that these guys must love hockey, love Canada, or both. That can't be bad!

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05-16-2012, 02:33 PM
  #78
Zuluss
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
That's a fair question and I don't have an answer.

I wanted Washington to beat NY and I saw nothing from OV in game 7. On the 2nd NY goal, he sat on his butt (literally) while the Rangers put the game out of reach. I saw even less than nothing from Semin.

If I was running the Caps, I would have traded Semin for a strong leader (Nash/Brown?) long ago and made HIM the Captain of the Capitals. This would allow OV to concentrate on scoring.

There is a reason OV has never won anything in his career - other than a 2nd rate World Championship. If things don't change soon, he never will.

**

Edit: He did win a WJR's (or 2?). However, against a strong Canadian team in North Dakota, he was (again) non existent.
Ovechkin won pretty much everything there is to win for an individual player, some things many times over.
What the teams he was on did is a totally different story. When Russia lost to Canada 6-1 at WJC-2005 and 7-3 at OG-2010, what did you expect Ovechkin to do? Score 6 goals in each game and save the day?
Yet, in WJC-2005 he made the All-Star team and was recognized as the best forward. Malkin, Crosby, Krejci were not, and Shea Weber did not make the All-Star team either.

As for Semin, Washington has been trading for "leaders", "heart", "winners" and other nonsensical words for several years now. What resulted is a team of grinders with little hockey sense and no hands outside of Ovechkin-Semin-Backstrom. Now they are grinding out 2-1 wins where they would be winning 5-2 just two years ago.
I would leave Semin alone and bought him a good play-making 2C.

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05-16-2012, 07:12 PM
  #79
Yakushev72
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
I bet a lot of Washington fans wish they had more passion for the Caps and less for mother Russia.

I would not be surprised if this hurts their team at this point.
Speaking for myself, I am happy that he wants to win for Mother Russia, and I don't give a damn at all as to whether he wants to win for the Capitols. I'm probably not alone.

The Capitols have been unwilling to invest and trade to get some decent talent other than Ovechkin, Semin and Backstom, so I have no idea why they would think that they would advance to the Third Round. Go ahead and trade for Semin, which will accomplish a potential extra shift each game for Brouwer.

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05-16-2012, 07:27 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
Russia already 6-0 in the tournament. If they weren't the favorites before, you'd have to assume they are now.

Although the other possibility/concern is does this addition upset the chemistry that's been working for them so far?
My impression is that the good chemistry is based on a defensive system that works. If you're not a fan of Russia, you won't notice how different and effective our defense is in comparison to past years. I think there is a lot of confidence that they can shut down opposing offenses, and that confidence makes them feel good about themselves, e.g., good chemistry.

We will see how Ovechkin and Semin fit into the defensive scheme, but building toward Sochi, Coach Bill has to give them a good look. You can't go to the Olympics and say "no thanks, Ovi, we want defensive grinders here." Some of the guys on the current roster are playing really well, but are probably not serious contenders for the Olympic team (Kokarev, Ketov, Shirokov). He has to start to bring his core players together.

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05-16-2012, 07:32 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Nothing like a double dose of loser to put you over the top.
For the Capitols, losing has a stability and permanence that is reassuring in these turbulent times. You know you can always count on the Caps losing.

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05-16-2012, 07:34 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by sdawg1010 View Post
You just had 2 seasons off with a concussion you get back after missing almost the whole regular season...your cleared to play, why wouldnt you be excited about playing...he played a total of maybe 15 games including playoffs...personally im pumped to go out and play hockey any chance i can get...be it 2-3 times a day...and i dont get paid for it
When he babies it, it makes you wonder whether he has concluded that his best days are behind him.

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05-16-2012, 07:38 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
Kuznetsov and Shirokov
Kuznetsov is young, but he has been brilliant at times, and he's a talent of the level of Malkin, Datsyuk, and Ovechkin, IMO.

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05-16-2012, 08:01 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Zuluss View Post
I would leave Semin alone and bought him a good play-making 2C.
Unfortunately, the Caps agree with me. They have said they are not interested in Semin going forward.

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05-16-2012, 08:03 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Speaking for myself, I am happy that he wants to win for Mother Russia, and I don't give a damn at all as to whether he wants to win for the Capitols. I'm probably not alone.

The Capitols have been unwilling to invest and trade to get some decent talent other than Ovechkin, Semin and Backstom, so I have no idea why they would think that they would advance to the Third Round. Go ahead and trade for Semin, which will accomplish a potential extra shift each game for Brouwer.

Wasn't there a year when even Russia did not want Semin on their team? - at the WC.

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05-16-2012, 08:06 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Wasn't there a year when even Russia did not want Semin on their team? - at the WC.
Last year.

Was a huge mistake... Ovechkin was dishing out some great feeds and the other guys couldn't finish, Semin on the other hand can.

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05-16-2012, 08:23 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Liberation View Post

Last year.

Was a huge mistake... Ovechkin was dishing out some great feeds and the other guys couldn't finish, Semin on the other hand can.
I think it also happened before last year as well. Anyway...

The Caps don't want him. Russia hasn't wanted him. Maybe there is a method to their madness?


Last edited by OttawaRoughRiderFan: 05-16-2012 at 08:30 PM.
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05-17-2012, 03:03 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Unfortunately, the Caps agree with me. They have said they are not interested in Semin going forward.
Please show me where they have said this. You can't because they haven't.

We get it, you don't like Semin, he's not a good Canadian boy but stop making stuff up.

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05-17-2012, 03:50 AM
  #89
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Semin is money in the bank, he is fire with the linemates Russia have to offer him.

Too bad Stamkos and Sid didn't suit up, oh well Benn and Eberle will be just fine.


Last edited by lakai17: 05-17-2012 at 03:56 AM.
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05-17-2012, 05:05 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Serbian Power View Post
Yeah, that's what we thought in 2010 too... and they lost to the underdogs in the final.

Anyways, I'm so impressed with their passion and willingness to play for their country after the second round. I wish that was the case with Canadian players too.
I'm not so sure that it is Canadian players wouldn't have the passion and willingness to play for their country after the second round. I think that Hockey Canada does not ask them.

It appears that Hockey Canada is not as interested in winning this tournament as the other countries ie Russia and Sweden are because if they were then they would be picking up better players after the 2nd round and not be satisfied with 18 year old defensemen.

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05-17-2012, 07:25 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Dream Big View Post
I'm not so sure that it is Canadian players wouldn't have the passion and willingness to play for their country after the second round. I think that Hockey Canada does not ask them.

It appears that Hockey Canada is not as interested in winning this tournament as the other countries ie Russia and Sweden are because if they were then they would be picking up better players after the 2nd round and not be satisfied with 18 year old defensemen.
I would not say that Hockey Canada is not interested in winning the tournament, I believe it has more to do that they are not interested in air lifting guys in if they have not had a chance to play before the QF. I also suspect Hockey Canada doesn't want to alienate guys who have made the commitment to go over to Europe only to not play when the medal round comes.

You see the philosophies in how the different countries prepare. The European teams have training camps and cut guys. Canada and to an extent USA go with the guys they invite and don't cut anyone.

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05-17-2012, 07:48 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Camshaft77 View Post
I would not say that Hockey Canada is not interested in winning the tournament, I believe it has more to do that they are not interested in air lifting guys in if they have not had a chance to play before the QF. I also suspect Hockey Canada doesn't want to alienate guys who have made the commitment to go over to Europe only to not play when the medal round comes.

You see the philosophies in how the different countries prepare. The European teams have training camps and cut guys. Canada and to an extent USA go with the guys they invite and don't cut anyone.
I was responding to the poster who said that Canadian Hockey players lack the passion of other country players because no one from the 2nd round goes to play like OV, Semin and Backstrom. Canada does not, did not upgrade after the second round and the Canadian players freed up cannot be blamed for that.

I don't know how Sweden and Russia do it differently than Canada but they seem to leave space for upgrades or are they alienating guys to have made the commitment? Perhaps the national teams of other country's have different obligations to win?

Regardless I'm sad Canada did so poorly when they could have done better in this our "national sport".

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05-17-2012, 09:22 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Dream Big View Post
I was responding to the poster who said that Canadian Hockey players lack the passion of other country players because no one from the 2nd round goes to play like OV, Semin and Backstrom. Canada does not, did not upgrade after the second round and the Canadian players freed up cannot be blamed for that.

I don't know how Sweden and Russia do it differently than Canada but they seem to leave space for upgrades or are they alienating guys to have made the commitment? Perhaps the national teams of other country's have different obligations to win?

Regardless I'm sad Canada did so poorly when they could have done better in this our "national sport".
Oh ok my misunderstanding, I certainly agree with you to a certain extent. You are right the European teams tend to make sure their is room for guys who have been beaten in the playoffs. I also find the European teams keep a few extra guys around to practice just in case the NHL guys end up not being available and register those guys who have been around the whole time which in its self are guys who are familiar with the team and what type of system the coach wants to employ. I also think the European teams have no problem carrying guys in a training camp setting and cutting them just before the tournament where as Canada does not do that.

I am also very disappointed with our performance, I have been for 2 years. I believe it is our management and how they approach the tournament that is the problem, not the players.

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05-17-2012, 09:29 PM
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I posted this in another thread. When it mattered the most, Russia got completely dominated and embarrassed in the 2010 Olympics, and where was Semin and Ovechkin then? After the 2010 Olympics, tthe team made a pact to win the gold medal in the 2010 World Championships with their dream team and they choked that year. They also choked last year with their A team. I am disappointed Canada lost, but nobody gives a damn here, since Sochi 2014 is the next showdown. I predict Russia will choke again this year. Their women are awesome, but Russian teams choke when it is best on best- 1998, 2002, 2006, 2010 and 2004 World Cup. They like beating up everyone's B or C teams at tournaments like this with all their top players playing, but suck when it is best on best for all the teams involved. At least Canada won 3 of the last 4 best on best tournaments. If not for Hasek in 1998, Canada would have won gold that year, while Russia choked that year as well with their star power. I will respect Russia once they win something that is best on best, since they have not done so. This tournament is not everyone's best on best- the top players of Canada and USA who missed the playoffs are on the golf course enjoying life somewhere. I do respect Ovechkin and Semin in never turning down the WHC. It means more to Euros than North Americans plain and simple.

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05-18-2012, 01:30 AM
  #95
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If you will only give Russia respect when they win a tournament that you care about, why are you posting in the World Hockey Championship board?


Also, Russia lost to the same Czech team in 98 to get the silver.


Last edited by KaylaJ: 05-18-2012 at 01:38 AM.
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05-18-2012, 03:18 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Mehar View Post
I posted this in another thread. When it mattered the most, Russia got completely dominated and embarrassed in the 2010 Olympics, and where was Semin and Ovechkin then? After the 2010 Olympics, tthe team made a pact to win the gold medal in the 2010 World Championships with their dream team and they choked that year. They also choked last year with their A team. I am disappointed Canada lost, but nobody gives a damn here, since Sochi 2014 is the next showdown. I predict Russia will choke again this year. Their women are awesome, but Russian teams choke when it is best on best- 1998, 2002, 2006, 2010 and 2004 World Cup. They like beating up everyone's B or C teams at tournaments like this with all their top players playing, but suck when it is best on best for all the teams involved. At least Canada won 3 of the last 4 best on best tournaments. If not for Hasek in 1998, Canada would have won gold that year, while Russia choked that year as well with their star power. I will respect Russia once they win something that is best on best, since they have not done so. This tournament is not everyone's best on best- the top players of Canada and USA who missed the playoffs are on the golf course enjoying life somewhere. I do respect Ovechkin and Semin in never turning down the WHC. It means more to Euros than North Americans plain and simple.
just that mess in pubertys head is just too hard to understand...

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05-18-2012, 04:01 AM
  #97
Sergei DRW
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Originally Posted by pouskin74 View Post
just that mess in pubertys head is just too hard to understand...
I wonder did the same kind of messages exist in 2006 when Canada was kicked out of the Olympics with the best squad at QF level by Russia?
I guess not, since posters like this were still in junior school.

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05-20-2012, 04:23 PM
  #98
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Well, it sounds like that the bet on Ovechkin and Semin paid off even though Kuznetsov had to sit.
Semin had a hell of a final, just like in 2008. Ovechkin scored and created huge goals.
They also looked really well with Datsyuk, something that did not happen the first time around. If Datsyuk was healthier, their line would probably be even scarier than the Malkin line, at least it was in the quarters and in the final.
PS Really glad for Datsyuk and Malkin, it seems that they did not have WC gold before.

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05-20-2012, 04:54 PM
  #99
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Oh good lord, that's pretty damn thick coming from a guy who's got about 2000 or type of posts on the forums.
Better that than the vulgarity that keeps finding its way into your posts.

Life canít be easy when you are unable to string together a sentence without swearing.

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05-20-2012, 04:57 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by BobDobolina View Post
Please show me where they have said this. You can't because they haven't.

We get it, you don't like Semin, he's not a good Canadian boy but stop making stuff up.
You're right. His agent said Semin was unwanted by the Capital organization and then worried that no one else would want him either...

"A day after suggesting that Semin, a pending unrestricted free agent, doesn't fit the Caps' system and wouldn't re-sign with them, his agent, Mark Gandler, softened his stance ever so slightly Tuesday."


Last edited by OttawaRoughRiderFan: 05-20-2012 at 05:28 PM.
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