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Old
05-16-2012, 03:10 AM
  #76
OlTimeHockey
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Originally Posted by Isles75 View Post
That is true. But you also have to look at why, the WHA wanted to set up shop at a newly developed coliseum in Nassau. The Demographics for your typical hockey fan, plus the distance from NYC, made it a very desirable location to develop a NEW hockey franchise. And while 40 years has passed, the fact of the matter is, the same Demographics that made Long Island ripe for hockey then, is still in place and much bigger on Long Island then in Brooklyn.

The Islanders problem on Long Island has been horrible owners. When I was growing up, the Islanders were huge on Long Island. But they also were competing for and winning Stanley Cups, just like the Rangers and Devils are doing right now. Isn't that what everyone considers exciting?
The problem with the Yugo is that it isn't AMERICAN MADE (huge market), but instead made in Eastern Europe (smalltime).

A piece of sh** needs lotsa people to sell like hotcakes.


So, with a horrible team in a horseshoe, in the middle of the opposition's fanbase, with a long commute for the FANS of the team for the most part, more people means more money.

So, the new American made Yugo will be blowing up in a dealership near you.

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05-16-2012, 06:17 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Law View Post
Selling out the arena is only part of the equation. Moving further away from the population and media centers makes it harder and harder to compete year-after-year.
I would just like to say that the population of Suffolk and Nassau is equal, putting a team in CI or Brentwood is good because the majority of the Suffolk County populace is in the Townships of Huntington, Smithtown, Babylon and Islip (where the Heartland proposal is)
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Originally Posted by Law View Post
I'm hoping for the Bethpage Federal Credit Union Center or 1-800-Flowers Arena.
If they move to that Heartland area, 5 minutes south is Entenmanns Bakery owned by the Mexican bakery "Bimbo Bakeries" pronounced
"Beem-Bo"
http://bimbobakeriesusa.com/
They should buy the rights.

The Suffolk Veterans Memorial Bimbo Coliseum at Heartland"
SVMBC@H
sounds better than NVMC

Or how about The Bimbo Arena? or Entenmanns Coliseum?

So the new arena can be nicknamed "the Bakery", or "the Bimbo Factory" or "the Crumbling Cookie" as a nod to the original NVMC?

,
Pnut


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05-16-2012, 08:30 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles75 View Post
That is true. But you also have to look at why, the WHA wanted to set up shop at a newly developed coliseum in Nassau. The Demographics for your typical hockey fan, plus the distance from NYC, made it a very desirable location to develop a NEW hockey franchise. And while 40 years has passed, the fact of the matter is, the same Demographics that made Long Island ripe for hockey then, is still in place and much bigger on Long Island then in Brooklyn.

The Islanders problem on Long Island has been horrible owners. When I was growing up, the Islanders were huge on Long Island. But they also were competing for and winning Stanley Cups, just like the Rangers and Devils are doing right now. Isn't that what everyone considers exciting?
Agreed about the demographics, but the financial landscape of hockey was wildly different back then. A club on LI could go about their business and keep players like Bossy, Trotts, and Potvin without having to worry excessively about whether their luxury suites, naming rights, and corporate sponsors were generating enough revenue in order to pay players of that caliber -- or attract free agents.

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05-16-2012, 09:11 AM
  #79
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This is all political talk. Nothing is going to happen in Nassau and Suffolk. Both have no money to spend and Wang is not going to pay for it on his own. Forget about a Lighthouse like project, it will take years/decades to restart that mess, and Wang wouldn’t do it anyway.

The team is in a holding pattern until 2015 when we will have an answer.

They will either be in Brooklyn for the 2015-2016 season or Quebec City. It is that simple.

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05-16-2012, 10:34 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Islanderfan72 View Post
This is all political talk. Nothing is going to happen in Nassau and Suffolk. Both have no money to spend and Wang is not going to pay for it on his own. Forget about a Lighthouse like project, it will take years/decades to restart that mess, and Wang wouldn’t do it anyway.

The team is in a holding pattern until 2015 when we will have an answer.

They will either be in Brooklyn for the 2015-2016 season or Quebec City. It is that simple.
Now there is a wager I would like to take. I already have first round. If you are right I will buy the second as well, otherwise drinks are on you. (I will be the tall man trying to go incognito in the corner so as not to max out my card.)

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05-16-2012, 02:36 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Law View Post
Agreed about the demographics, but the financial landscape of hockey was wildly different back then. A club on LI could go about their business and keep players like Bossy, Trotts, and Potvin without having to worry excessively about whether their luxury suites, naming rights, and corporate sponsors were generating enough revenue in order to pay players of that caliber -- or attract free agents.
So.....the question is, IS LONG ISLAND GOING TO IMPROVE?

We have it at its worst. Taxes too high, companies not staying, oil prices are high, thus consumer prices are high. Taxes are not enough for government because the citizenry is making less.

But what about in four or eight years? Can the US turn it around? Can we go from Carter to Reagan again?

If we can, Long Island looks better. House prices go back up. Taxes (if we go out and vote to make them listen) go back down. (that means turning down all spending, including a public arena, teacher and cop salaries, firing administrators and downsizing a much too big government EVERYWHERE)

So....if the economy returns to 1980's prosperity in Nassau, can an arena in Nassau work?

Well, Law identified a few reasons it can.

Luxury suites must be put in. Now they won't sell....but when Nassau turns it around (unless you believe Nassau will turn into Detroit).

Naming rights.....I'm against it. Save $4M a year elsewhere. The vets shouldn't be replaced by Computer Associates.

Corporate sponsorship will come back if Long Island comes back. They come back if the team isn't a joke. Fans pay to see it, advertising rises. It's no wonder we don't draw ads after years of Milbury, Wang, Snow, DP, committees, Sparky, Gorton's Fishermen, vets being taboo, prospects being rushed, etc. When the Isles are worth it, someone will spend on them.

Or we can just blame the building, blame Murray and ignore the elephant in the room.

I still say the County would be more willing to do something if our GM (OWNER) was. That's the message I got from Murray's rip on us when she said the Rangers were more exciting (THEY ARE - THEY ARE STILL PLAYING, NOT US!).

I'm gonna go listen to Snow's take on the season and what he plans to do for next year to try and get excited......or maybe play clips to coma patients just to screw with them.

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05-16-2012, 05:39 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Law View Post
Putting aside allegiances for a moment, dropping a team in Nassau was a horrendous business decision. Moving them to Suffolk would be comical. Again, purely from a business perspective. Landscape of sports has changed a lot since the Isles were hastily granted admittance to the NHL. Selling out the arena is only part of the equation. Moving further away from the population and media centers makes it harder and harder to compete year-after-year.

It would really be a terrible move for the organization -- so obviously I can't rule it out.
Suffolk has a higher population, it also has a higher population growth over the past decade. Nassau has a higher popluation rate of older people (65+).

You think moving them out to Suffolk would net them even less media attention? Really? Think that one through....

Suffolk has the space, it has the motive (bring in revenue) and it has a local government that is nowhere near as corrupt, nor as partisan as Nassau.

Any concerns over moving them (a whopping 20 miles further east) can be answered by public transportation, and a much closer proximity to the Connecticut (New England) ferries.

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05-16-2012, 07:10 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Suffolk has a higher population, it also has a higher population growth over the past decade. Nassau has a higher popluation rate of older people (65+).
The brain-drain has been affecting LI for awhile now, doesn't appear to be any end in sight either, but that's a whole other discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
You think moving them out to Suffolk would net them even less media attention? Really? Think that one through....
I've worked in the advertising and marketing world for more than a decade -- assuming for a second that we ever deserve attention again, yes, I do. Mind you, not saying Nassau is that much better, just pointing out that it could get worse.


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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Suffolk has the space, it has the motive (bring in revenue) and it has a local government that is nowhere near as corrupt, nor as partisan as Nassau.

Any concerns over moving them (a whopping 20 miles further east) can be answered by public transportation, and a much closer proximity to the Connecticut (New England) ferries.
Haven't really been arguing about filling the arena, my concerns are about how moving further away from the population/media/business center will affect the overall bottom line (value/revenue) for a variety of reasons.

Look, even if NYC lost its collective sanity and let us build an arena at the old Farley Post Office, we'd still be second-class citizens in the city, but the franchise's value and revenue would probably be maximized -- or at least as good as it's gonna get being a second-class citizen. It would be Queens/Brooklyn depending on the situation (own, rent, etc), followed by Nassau, and finally Suffolk in terms of descending value/revenue.

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05-16-2012, 09:20 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Law View Post

Haven't really been arguing about filling the arena, my concerns are about how moving further away from the population/media/business center will affect the overall bottom line (value/revenue) for a variety of reasons.

Look, even if NYC lost its collective sanity and let us build an arena at the old Farley Post Office, we'd still be second-class citizens in the city, but the franchise's value and revenue would probably be maximized -- or at least as good as it's gonna get being a second-class citizen. It would be Queens/Brooklyn depending on the situation (own, rent, etc), followed by Nassau, and finally Suffolk in terms of descending value/revenue.
What if the move 20 miles east means easier access to the arena.

2 points:
1) I'm assuming we're talking the Pilgrim Site or some other place in southwestern Suffolk which should be on or next to a train line/route.
2) This is an honest question. I'm not trying to say, "Well Law, you didn't think of this!" type of snarky comment.

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05-18-2012, 09:22 PM
  #85
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pilgrim state already has a running bus line that goes there ( to the college across the road ).. and it has a train line already there, its just closed off since it hasnt been used b/c theres no use for it now, but would get reopened when heartland is built.. .. heartland has transportation already set and waiting.. nothing needs to get built or changed for public trans to the site

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05-18-2012, 09:55 PM
  #86
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NIFA just nixed 26 million for the Aquatic Center. Say so long to any thoughts of any type of public/private financing for a 300 million dollar Coliseum.

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05-18-2012, 10:01 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
So.....the question is, IS LONG ISLAND GOING TO IMPROVE?

We have it at its worst. Taxes too high, companies not staying, oil prices are high, thus consumer prices are high. Taxes are not enough for government because the citizenry is making less.

But what about in four or eight years? Can the US turn it around? Can we go from Carter to Reagan again?

If we can, Long Island looks better. House prices go back up. Taxes (if we go out and vote to make them listen) go back down. (that means turning down all spending, including a public arena, teacher and cop salaries, firing administrators and downsizing a much too big government EVERYWHERE)
From a soon to be graduating HS Senior, I'd say pathos is a big problem in this county. They all say they want lower taxes, but when that means cutting teachers' salaries, police pensions and precincts, administrators, or amount of school districts it's a nono. Don't even get me started on the budget--so much needless spending yet they threaten to cut important areas such as the entire music program. Or the fear-mongering on how all the gangs will show up in our communities if we don't keep up our ridiculous amount of spending in law enforcement.

If you have a good teacher, Microeconomics is greatest course you'll ever take in High School..

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05-19-2012, 01:53 AM
  #88
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From a soon to be graduating HS Senior, I'd say pathos is a big problem in this county. They all say they want lower taxes, but when that means cutting teachers' salaries, police pensions and precincts, administrators, or amount of school districts it's a nono. Don't even get me started on the budget--so much needless spending yet they threaten to cut important areas such as the entire music program. Or the fear-mongering on how all the gangs will show up in our communities if we don't keep up our ridiculous amount of spending in law enforcement.

If you have a good teacher, Microeconomics is greatest course you'll ever take in High School..
I'm in The People's Republik of Kalifornia and though I did not, NOT want Jerry Brown, he's doing a Christy. He's making cuts that have to be made (so long as it's not cutting free stuff for the illegals and WIC, two hot issue no-no's). Nassau refuses. The people will demand the white collar police force and administrators making $300k, but tough.

Eventually, the cuts have to come and thus, the high dollar County pay has to stop. Whether people want it or not.

If the County were run right....we wouldn't be worried about losing a team this past decade because the necessary money would have been appropriated to protect the County's revenue.

But just like cousins marrying, politicians are in charge of taxpayers' money and it leads to bad things. Extra limbs? Banjos? Maybe not that drastic but bad things nonetheless.

And the NCPD, as much as I like the guys in the 3rd, are just a ticket brigade. Wanna talk about overpaid? Oy. School districts.....there should the THREE. One in each town. Cut those budgets. Will anyone bother to make it happen, demand it be voted on and make the issue public passion? Nope. Too much work.

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05-19-2012, 03:08 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
So.....the question is, IS LONG ISLAND GOING TO IMPROVE?

We have it at its worst. Taxes too high, companies not staying, oil prices are high, thus consumer prices are high. Taxes are not enough for government because the citizenry is making less.

But what about in four or eight years? Can the US turn it around? Can we go from Carter to Reagan again?

If we can, Long Island looks better. House prices go back up. Taxes (if we go out and vote to make them listen) go back down. (that means turning down all spending, including a public arena, teacher and cop salaries, firing administrators and downsizing a much too big government EVERYWHERE)

So....if the economy returns to 1980's prosperity in Nassau, can an arena in Nassau work?

Well, Law identified a few reasons it can.

Luxury suites must be put in. Now they won't sell....but when Nassau turns it around (unless you believe Nassau will turn into Detroit).

Naming rights.....I'm against it. Save $4M a year elsewhere. The vets shouldn't be replaced by Computer Associates.

Corporate sponsorship will come back if Long Island comes back. They come back if the team isn't a joke. Fans pay to see it, advertising rises. It's no wonder we don't draw ads after years of Milbury, Wang, Snow, DP, committees, Sparky, Gorton's Fishermen, vets being taboo, prospects being rushed, etc. When the Isles are worth it, someone will spend on them.

Or we can just blame the building, blame Murray and ignore the elephant in the room.

I still say the County would be more willing to do something if our GM (OWNER) was. That's the message I got from Murray's rip on us when she said the Rangers were more exciting (THEY ARE - THEY ARE STILL PLAYING, NOT US!).

I'm gonna go listen to Snow's take on the season and what he plans to do for next year to try and get excited......or maybe play clips to coma patients just to screw with them.
This whole thing lost any credibility when you said you would pass on naming rights. Naming rights are the single largest in arena revenue stream for any franchise. Nobody is going to throw them away, nor should they. Unless you want to sign a $200 million contract so you can name a building after veterans.

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05-19-2012, 03:16 AM
  #90
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This whole thing lost any credibility when you said you would pass on naming rights. Naming rights are the single largest in arena revenue stream for any franchise. Nobody is going to throw them away, nor should they. Unless you want to sign a $200 million contract so you can name a building after veterans.
Those who gave everything deserve something. If you disagree and want to take the name dedicated to the veterans, you disgust me and I want nothing in the future from you.

Yes. $4M a year thrown away. Whoopididoo.

No one gets $200M for an arena's naming rights in the suburbs and even if they did, I would not take the vets off the name.

Again, anyone who would I would publicly spit on. Without hesitation.

If anyone has time, here's some stories from those who lived:
http://www.loc.gov/vets/stories/courage.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_850033.html
http://news.yahoo.com/four-decades-l...125616866.html
Quote:
The then 22-year-old Sabo died on May 10, 1970 as his patrol was ambushed near a remote border area of Cambodia. The attack by North Vietnamese troops killed seven of Sabo's fellow soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division and would come to be known as the "Mother's Day ambush."

A White House statement announcing Sabo's receipt of the Medal of Honor in April described how Sabo gave his life that day to silence the enemy fire.

According to the release, Sabo charged enemy positions and killed several North Vietnamese fighters while drawing fire away from his unit.

Later, Sabo used his body to shield a wounded soldier from the blast of a tossed grenade. Wounded by automatic weapons fire, he crawled towards an enemy bunker and dropped a grenade that "silenced the enemy fire, but also ended Specialist Sabo's life."
Oh, conversely, A bank has nice rates and gives Wang money.


Who deserves the name? The guys who gave everything of the suits who pay for advertising? $4M a year or one life?

If you would like to debate this point, saying the money going to Charles B Wang trumps a bestowed upon honor given to the men and women who have given everything, more than you or I ever would, by all means, I am up for the debate and will debate this point until you relent or cease to breath from old age.

But if you are willing to give the big F-U to the vets, the men and women never to return home for the sacrifice they made, put me on ignore and never speak to me again. Ever. I'm sure Wang needs the money.

I'm also 100% sure those who served selflessly need a LITTLE RESPECT.


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05-19-2012, 04:27 AM
  #91
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http://espn.go.com/sportsbusiness/s/stadiumnames.html
Yeah, $200 mother****ing million dollars. No, not quite.

What's the value of two amputated feet, a reduced prospect of finding gainful employment and a quality family life worth? A fear of loud noises for the duration of your life worth? Hmm.....we might be able to sign Mike Mottau for three years. Def worth it!


Sorry, this topic pi$$es me off to no end. It's selfish and careless. Ask someone at a local VFW what they think first. And I mean REALLY talk to them and discuss whatever they are kind enough to say to you. Then get back to me. I never served. I have my reasons.


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05-19-2012, 12:41 PM
  #92
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Vet groups had already signed off on Wang being able to sell the naming rights as part of the original Lighthouse proposal. In exchange he was going to put up a memorial that was somewhat more respectful of vets than a dilapidated building suffering from years of neglect from its owners. Of course, that's all out the window now. Thanks Kate. Now they can have the Nassau Veterans Memorial Shopping Mall instead.


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05-19-2012, 12:42 PM
  #93
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Why hasn't there been mention of Syosset as a possible arena location? The former Cerro Wire site is sitting dormant while the town refuses to allow a mall to be built there. The region doesn't need any more malls. The property is right on the LIE, and the LIRR runs right through it, so infrastructure is largely in place. Perfect location for driving or mass transit, right in the heart of their existing market. They may want to build partially below grade to reduce overall height (surrounding area is largely residential), but the property is plenty big to hold the arena and parking.

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05-19-2012, 01:31 PM
  #94
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Islanders like Veterans.

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05-19-2012, 01:36 PM
  #95
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Islanders like Veterans.
Nice!

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05-19-2012, 04:27 PM
  #96
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http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo...ed:i=1.3726840

Updated: May 18, 2012 09:45 PM
By CELESTE HADRICK

Nassau 's financial control board has turned down a $26 million plan to refurbish the county's Aquatic Center in Eisenhower Park, but approved a $5.4 million contract to renovate the now-closed police shooting range in Hempstead .

Members of the Nassau Interim Finance Authority questioned the cost of the Aquatic Center project before rejecting a $21.8 million contract with E & A Restoration on Thursday. NIFA staff reported the county had already borrowed $11 million, spent $4 million on new machinery, and wanted to borrow an additional $14.8 million.


NIFA member Chris Wright said spending that kind of money for a recreation facility is "fiscally imprudent even in a good year." NIFA member Dermond Thomas questioned why the county had not prioritized the work by health and safety issues. Chairman Ronald Stack said the county "could come back with a scaled-down contract, saying exactly what they're going to do."...

Meanwhile, NIFA unanimously approved a two-year contract with Wenger Construction Co. to renovate the police shooting range, closed since June 2011 because of continuing health and safety problems, including ricochet bullets.


If a 26 million package is rejected for a pool, getting a publicly funded arena approved will be a whole lot tougher. Also TOH is not willing to budge their zoning.

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05-19-2012, 04:32 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by malPHONEY View Post
From a soon to be graduating HS Senior, I'd say pathos is a big problem in this county. They all say they want lower taxes, but when that means cutting teachers' salaries, police pensions and precincts, administrators, or amount of school districts it's a nono. Don't even get me started on the budget--so much needless spending yet they threaten to cut important areas such as the entire music program. Or the fear-mongering on how all the gangs will show up in our communities if we don't keep up our ridiculous amount of spending in law enforcement.

If you have a good teacher, Microeconomics is greatest course you'll ever take in High School..
See everytime there is a deficit or an economic downturn there is always cuts and raising of taxes. Too many NIMBY idiots there that don't want to see the police cut because they think Garden City will become Compton and their house investments will lose value. And that if they pay higher taxes, which were supposed to be higher all along. If you suggest this to them, they get super angry at you and want to hurt you.
These people dont realize there will have to be WAY more cuts and higher taxes if the Islanders leave. What a bunch of idiots.

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05-19-2012, 04:52 PM
  #98
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Why hasn't there been mention of Syosset as a possible arena location? The former Cerro Wire site is sitting dormant while the town refuses to allow a mall to be built there. The region doesn't need any more malls. The property is right on the LIE, and the LIRR runs right through it, so infrastructure is largely in place. Perfect location for driving or mass transit, right in the heart of their existing market. They may want to build partially below grade to reduce overall height (surrounding area is largely residential), but the property is plenty big to hold the arena and parking.
No chance. A local group has been blocking that mall for more than a decade, and they'd do the same to an arena. Plus they'd have to build new exits and/or expand existing ones on the LIE, which is pretty much impossible considering the residential areas that border the site.

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05-19-2012, 06:13 PM
  #99
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I feel like starting a "Who Wants the Islanders" campaign.

A town somewhere on the Island must be interested in them.

Or a town off of the Island. Seattle? Quebec?

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05-20-2012, 01:31 PM
  #100
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http://www.*************.com/index.p...post&p=1267767

Team Store In Masspk Mall Closing 6-11-12

My friend works at the store and was just informed today that they are closing on 6-11-12 and is out of a job. Talk about becoming irrelevant huh.

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