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NHL Draft - Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

Detroit Red Wings Prospects

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Old
05-14-2012, 10:12 AM
  #26
McDoused
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I think that Detroit does a good job drafting but to be honest I think they are slightly overrated (as is a team like Los Angeles) the only difference is that LA has a lot higher picks and messed up with Hickey and Teubert.

Detroit probably passes on Thomas McCollum at 30, Landon Ferraro at 32 and Riley Sheahan at 21. Now I know that no team is perfect and they generally do a good job finding NHL talent in later rounds but sometimes I think fans look at them like they can do no wrong. Charlie Coyle, Ryan O'Reilly and Vyacheslav Voynov were all taken slightly after and all appear to be having much better careers.

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Old
05-14-2012, 10:27 AM
  #27
bottomofthefoodchain
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I don't know about overrated... more like people have ridiculously high expectations.
Which team has drafted better than Detroit in the last 10 years?

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Old
05-14-2012, 11:09 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomofthefoodchain View Post
I don't know about overrated... more like people have ridiculously high expectations.
Which team has drafted better than Detroit in the last 10 years?
Last 10 years? Probably lot's of teams. In the last 10 years the major guys are drafted are Howard, Franzen, and Filppula. Than it's guys like Erickson, Helm and Abdelkader, who are nice players but a dime a dozen around the league.

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Old
05-14-2012, 11:11 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
I think that Detroit does a good job drafting but to be honest I think they are slightly overrated (as is a team like Los Angeles) the only difference is that LA has a lot higher picks and messed up with Hickey and Teubert.

Detroit probably passes on Thomas McCollum at 30, Landon Ferraro at 32 and Riley Sheahan at 21. Now I know that no team is perfect and they generally do a good job finding NHL talent in later rounds but sometimes I think fans look at them like they can do no wrong. Charlie Coyle, Ryan O'Reilly and Vyacheslav Voynov were all taken slightly after and all appear to be having much better careers.
Sheahan was a very good pick. Wait and see. Lack of glitzy production is not as big an issue as you would think. Kid has all the tools and is huge. Worst case he is a third line checking center. Best case he ends up Ryan Getzlaf or Jordan Staal. There is an argument for him to be the wings top prospect in Management's eyes. We have not given up on him yet.

McCollum likely a bust.

Ferraro is probably a bust but could end up a pretty good role player. See Patrick Eaves.

Whats strange about the wings is they suddenly came up with a lot of very talented forwards:

Tartar, Jarnkrok, Jurco, Nyquist, Pulkkinen (All are showing glimmers of being legit top line forwards and all have similar potential/ceilings) While I doubt all make it (as people on these boards often assume), one or two out of five and Detroit is sitting pretty.

There prospects are not overrated presently. In the past absolutely, but at this moment, their pool is the deepest it has been in probably 15-20 years, albeit could use a bit more (volume) of size players. If the handful of large players they have in their pool pan out (quality over quantity) they will be in good shape as they have a nice stable of star talent.

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Old
05-14-2012, 12:06 PM
  #30
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My take on Detroit prospects is this:

Whenever a player is taken in a draft, they have two projections. One, an absolute highest-caliber ceiling that player could reach if all of the stars align and they are developed perfectly. Two, what the player is likely to become.

Take Jonas Brodin for example. Minnesota Wild took him at #10 last year. His absolute highest possible ceiling is basically a Lidstrom lite. Something like 90% of what Lidstrom is. His more likely projection is Kenny Jonsson, a 1B/#2 defender who plays very well consistently.

These projections basically work for every prospect taken, and with 29/30 teams in the league, prospects are ranked based on their likely projections, not their absolute highest ceiling possible.

With Detroit, however, prospects are expected to hit their absolute ceiling quite a bit of the time. Detroit has such a great philosophy on development that people simply expect prospects developed by them to reach that ceiling.

Its not that the prospects themselves are overrated, or the pools or teams are overrated, its just that people expect them to develop well.

Just my $0.02

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Old
05-14-2012, 12:15 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomofthefoodchain View Post
I don't know about overrated... more like people have ridiculously high expectations.
Which team has drafted better than Detroit in the last 10 years?

When you consistently draft only as high as the bottom third or the second round at the earliest, the expectations really shouldn't be very high at all, yet they are. It's because they have brought through several players who were drafted very low and turned them into NHL players.

The point to the draft isn't necessarily to get a home run every time but to get NHL caliber guys out of a crap shoot basically. In this regard, they've consistently managed to do so given how many of their roster spots go to homegrown talent.

It's easy to draft NHL talent when you have one of the top five to ten picks. A position Detroit hasn't had in two decades.

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05-14-2012, 12:26 PM
  #32
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I don't really see how Wings prospects are overrated past Pulkkinen, who has wow factor and not a lot of substance to him. Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Sheahan, etc are high quality forward prospects. Maybe not those top 10 types, but quality guys who could become top 6 players.

The same is true of the defense. Almquist is probably a bust or a marginal NHL player, but Ouelett, Sproul, Jensen, Smith are all doing well for themselves in their respective situations, and the org has the inside track on Dan DeKeyser.

In net all you've really got is Mrazek, but he's doing everything he can be. He's making great progress, and has luckily addressed one of his big weaknesses: his lack of size. He's 6'1 now. He's not a small goalie anymore.

You can't just look at their rosters and say "A Wings prospect hasn't made the team in the last few years, so obviously their drafting sucks." Look at Smith and Nyquist. They would have been big contributors on other teams in the league this season (and maybe even last season), but Detroit doesn't do it that way. They get to wait. You can't judge these kinds of Ken Holland/Jim Nill prospect pools until years out. They draft for the long, long term.

That said, the Wings' drafting sucked terribly for a number of years and was overrated in that respect. Only lately have they gotten back on track.

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Old
05-14-2012, 01:15 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moya View Post
Meme

"Not highly touted"


"Has an official thread with 1000 posts and currently has a second thread going"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moya View Post
#Detroit Red Wings Problems

"Great prospect in 2011"

"Arguably not even a top 10 prospect in 2012"


Reason this thread was made.
First that thread has little to no Detroit influnece and most times it is a wing fan going to either ask how he is progressing to people who see him play because most times stats don't tell the full story. Secondly if you look at the start date of the first Pulkkinen thread it was before Detroit even drafted him, I believe it was made in 08 and for much of 2008 and 2009 he was talked about as a top 5 pick. When you're team selects a guy that was talked about as a top 5 pick for 2 years in the 4th round you're going to be quite ecstatic. And then when he goes out and plays at a point per game pace you're bound to get some hype.

The problem then becomes with that hype comes greatly increased expectations and when he isn't scoring his faults become much more noticeable and they become more worrisome. Most wings fans already know that he is long shot to make the NHL unless he works on his skating he won't make it but you're able to push some of those faults aside when he has an excellent year and just look at the potential (why he was so high last year in Detroit's Pool). However when he has a year like the 11-12 in which he was injured, appeared to be disinterested and isn't scoring the only way for him to move is downwards, it also doesn't help when the guys behind him had big years as well.

Here's the original thread for you:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=464352

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
LoL this post is a prime example of what the OP is talking about. If Ouellet Sproul or Tvrdon were drafted by any other team, we wouldnt even know there names.

And looking like the Draft winners come on, thats just ridiculous.
Well Ouellet had a very impressive season in the QMJHL, he was nomintated for the best defenceman award in the Q being a year younger then the other two that were nominated, was a point per game player in the regular season & playoffs (He finished 3rd in defensive scoring, was 2nd on his team in points), and he captained his team that was supposed to be a bottom feeder to the top seed in their division.

Sproul has had a solid year in which he increased his point total by 21 and he was 3rd overall in defensive scoring, had the highest +/- on his team at +16 the next closest was +9 (his team was -45 overall), and he has started to solidify his defensive game.

Tvrdon had been in the top 60 or it might have been predicted I can't remember in the 2011 draft but he only played in 11 Game. Then this year he had 74 points in 60 games in the regular season and 6 points in 6 games in the playoffs. He also had 4 points at the WJC, and the scary thing is he could still get better he has size, skill and speed he just has to give a more consistent effort.

Now avs I ask why you picked Oullett, Sproul & Tvrdon? I read around a lot and I only really see Oullett mentioned and that's not very often so why is it you say that we wouldn't even know there names when nobody is exactly hyping them up to be superstars? They all had solid years and improved greatly from their draft year "Versions" but that is to be expected as they're a year older, stronger, and wiser. If you're going to pick on wing's prospects that may be overhyped why not pick Nyquist, Jurco, Jarnkrok or Pulkkinen?

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Old
05-14-2012, 01:17 PM
  #34
Jussi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy Kassian View Post
Pulkkinen isn't highly touted anymore
He is according to Jim Nill: http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index...._wings_35.html

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Old
05-14-2012, 01:36 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Translation of the article: "Hey Parise and Suter, we are not an aging team with injury-prone stars on the wrong side of 30. We are reloading. Our incoming youth is great. I swear."

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Old
05-14-2012, 02:02 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy Kassian View Post


Did I really have to add "as of right now" for people like you?

Notice I said "looks" not just "they are"
Tiny nitpick, but I think you should change Rains to Reynes.

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Old
05-14-2012, 02:27 PM
  #37
Kaner Coffee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
The same esteemed website that published this crap: http://blog.mlive.com/ottoman-empire...has_to_go.html


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Old
05-14-2012, 02:40 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaner Coffee View Post
The same esteemed website that published this crap: http://blog.mlive.com/ottoman-empire...has_to_go.html


Nah. The beat writer is Ansar Khan. He gets all the Wings scoops and updates.

The other guys just do opinion pieces.

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Old
05-14-2012, 02:45 PM
  #39
irishtemper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaner Coffee View Post
The same esteemed website that published this crap: http://blog.mlive.com/ottoman-empire...has_to_go.html

That **** made me laugh so hard....especially the arguments going on in the comments.

"Coast Guard? Isn't that just like a step up from Merchant Marines?"

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Old
05-14-2012, 02:46 PM
  #40
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I don't understand the comments about Pulkkinen and his "bad season"

he was still 2nd best scorer in his team.

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Old
05-14-2012, 03:00 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamuz View Post
I don't understand the comments about Pulkkinen and his "bad season"

he was still 2nd best scorer in his team.
For me it was a mix, even though he worked on his skating he still has a ways to go before its up to par, I just expected more honestly his team might have stunk it up but he was a part of it. And more so when he isn't putting up points his flaws are amplified to an extreme, while he still has the top line 30+ goal potential this year set him back a bit and he appears to be be busting more so than booming.

The good news is that he still has that potential and the wings will give him every chance to succeed as they are going to sign him to a deal in the coming weeks. Like I said it's more he had a disappointing season then a bad one, and when someone disappoints you see the bad in them more then the good.

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Old
05-14-2012, 03:10 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moya View Post
This.

The stigma that goes with being a European Detroit Red Wings draft pick is evident.
How can you claim you aren't trying to bash Detroit, and that you "honestly want to know" things, yet you pull a "this" quote when someone says they are overrated? Agenda.

Their prospects are not overrated in my opinion. Most of them look like they have the ability and skills to play in the NHL and be effective some day. Also, what gets lost on people who bash them and say they only drafted a couple good players in the past 7 years forget about players that were traded away or went back to Europe. Either way, the OP has an obvious agenda and isn't fooling anyone.

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Old
05-14-2012, 03:27 PM
  #43
ricky0034
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so many people say the Wings prospects are overrated but I just don't see it

I mean....from what i've seen if anything it's the opposite

I mean sure there's the occasional generic "x is gonna be a stud! the Wings drafted them!" but for the most part....they frequently show up too low/not at all on rankings and in general if anything get too little attention

I mean....for ****s sake Calle Jarnkrok doesn't even have a thread on this forum....

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05-14-2012, 03:48 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Your "opinion" is based on open-ended questions that incite and invite annoyance from Red Wings fans and, really, followers of prospects in general. Your entire goal here was to nudge the Flames into the discussion in such a way that you could subtly proclaim Calgary to suddenly be a superior team at the draft table. You're also agreeing with anyone who has anything negative- however unfounded- to say about the organization.

To that end, I'm really not sure why you're bringing up Sven Bartschi in a thread about Red Wings prospects... wait, yes I do, it's because you want someone to give you a cookie for drafting a good prospect. So, congratulations? You got a steal in a position where Detroit has not drafted for years. What kind of cookie do you want- chocolate chip or raisin?
Umm, in the op he actually insulted his own teams dafting....There was one time in this thread that he game the Flames props, and that was only after a Detroit fan listed their last to drafts and calling the 2011 crop the "Draft winners," "So far." At which point he said it looks like the Flames have already done a better job.

So thats why he brought up Sven Bartschi seeing as you were not sure....

Quote:
Originally Posted by probertrules24 View Post
Who can say they are the draft winners until they start playing in the pro's. Problem with that is most won't see NHL time for another 3-6 years. If you were to take a look at how they performed this year compared to their draft year I would say as a whole they looked like they had a great draft in 2011.

Jurco - 2nd rd 35th - 1.42 points a game compared to .93 the year before.
Ouellet - 2nd rd 48th - .952 points a game compared to .641 the year before.
Sproul - 2nd rd 55th - .885 points a game compared to .54 the year before.
Quine - 3rd rd 85th - 1.05 points a game compared to .81 the year before.
Tvrdon - 4th rd 115th - 1.23 points a game compared to .91 the year before.
Houdon - ?
Backman - 5th rd 146th - Made the jump to the Swedich elite league and averaged 16:21 TOI. Also won gold at the WJ.
Nedomlel - 6th rd 175th - .64 points a game compared to .15 the year before.
Marchenko - 7th rd 205th - Was playing over 13:00 minutes a game in the KHL before he was injured. Would of also been on the Russian WJ team.

It looks like they had a great draft in 2011 as pretty much every player has progressed in their development. Does this mean they will all be NHL players. Absolutely not but as far as looking at draft classes this early they had one of the best so far.
I was going to get a little mean with this response, but I'll just say, if a Junior player does not get better when he is a year older, and is given an increased role, you should be blowing up ur scouting department right now...

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Old
05-14-2012, 04:03 PM
  #45
newfy
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Considering I'm pretty much the only poster who has made a thread about Ouellet who has outperformed high pick Beaulieu and was absolutely unreal this year, theres hardly any talk about Nyquist and Jarnkrok gets no love... no I dont tihnk they are.

Jarnkrok is playing as the second line center of Sweden at the world champs at like 21

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Old
05-14-2012, 04:06 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Considering I'm pretty much the only poster who has made a thread about Ouellet who has outperformed high pick Beaulieu and was absolutely unreal this year, theres hardly any talk about Nyquist and Jarnkrok gets no love... no I dont tihnk they are.

Jarnkrok is playing as the second line center of Sweden at the world champs at like 21
That's how I feel. I don't understand how any of them can be overrated when they are not even talked about..

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Old
05-14-2012, 04:18 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
That's how I feel. I don't understand how any of them can be overrated when they are not even talked about..
They are highly ranked on Hockey Prospectus and every years' Hockey News Future Watch issue. Jakub Kindl, Jonathan Erickson, Justin Abdelkader, and Darren Helm have all been ranked prospects in Future Watch. None have really turned out that great. Yet Detroit has 4 more ranked prospects this year.

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Old
05-14-2012, 04:53 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
They are highly ranked on Hockey Prospectus and every years' Hockey News Future Watch issue. Jakub Kindl, Jonathan Erickson, Justin Abdelkader, and Darren Helm have all been ranked prospects in Future Watch. None have really turned out that great. Yet Detroit has 4 more ranked prospects this year.
To be fair though the guys you lost were never expected to be anything more than bottom six guys, or #4/5/6 defenceman and after Ericsson's play in the 09 playoffs he looked like a solid #3/4 so there was a reason behind the madness. Helm is also probably the 4th or 5th most important forward on the wings so it isn't fair to say none of them turned out that great when they weren't expected to be top 6 or anything special.

And for this year the wings do have a couple guys that are deserving Smith, Nyquist, Jarnkrok, maybe Tatar/Jurco/Oullet but the wings have a legit prospect pool for the first time since the late 1990's and it may be the best overall talent since 1989-1992 range.

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Old
05-14-2012, 05:08 PM
  #49
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I really don't get this , i honestly haven't seen anyone hyping up wings prospects to be the next big thing or anything. All i have seen is people saying guys like jarnkrok, nyquist, jurco, smith, tatar, and ouellet could become solid nhl players one day, i wouldn't consider that unreasonable hype.

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05-14-2012, 05:15 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by irishtemper View Post
Tiny nitpick, but I think you should change Rains to Reynes.
the song about their Rebellion

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