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Dale Hunter Stepping Down Today

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Old
05-14-2012, 02:03 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by californiacapsfan View Post
I disagree. This is about management. Leonsis and Patrick and McPhee have failed to build the right organization around Ovie and the young guns, from players to coaches to culture off the ice.

I can't help but think about the story I heard out of LA when they fired their coach mid-season. Lombardi walked into the room and ripped those guys a new one. Told them they cost a good man his job. The culture of responsibility and accountability doesn't come from the players on the ice first. It comes from the front office.
Disagree. The culture of responsibility and accountability is equally shared by all that is management and players alike.

If Coach 3 is not successful I suppose some will say well he was not the right guy for the job, ignoring the common denominator in all of this, the likes of Alex Ovechkin and some others. Hunter attempted to change a "culture" that existed on this team. I believe he was somewhat successful with some players but others did their utmost to resist and only accepted it begrudgingly. Hopefully the next coach can build upon what Hunter started and not move away from it.

Ovechkin needs to man up and accept responsibility and accountability as well and he can do that by surrending the "C" and say I need to concentrate first and foremost on being a better two way hockey player. I just have to look at his performance in Game 7 which I described as that he appeared "disinterested".

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05-14-2012, 02:03 PM
  #227
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Oh one more time!

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05-14-2012, 02:03 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Ovechkins Wodka View Post
trading a 1st for a coach would be pretty stupid
Not to mention against the rules. I was under the impression you could not do that anymore.

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05-14-2012, 02:04 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by californiacapsfan View Post
You may get that chance very soon.

FWIW, Holland's been in his job the same years as GMGM and in that time, Detroit has won 3 cups, most recently 4 years ago. No one else has won nearly as much over that span. I'd agree he's been less effective in the salary cap era, but he's still got better results than McPhee overall.
Again, how much of that is on Lidstrom and drafting Datsyuk and Zetterberg (which had everything to do with Hakan)?

You can just point at results and use that as a be all end all but if we bring Holland over next year I highly doubt he'd be able to come close to replicating his results in Detroit over here. If McPhee let Hossa go even and then Hossa signed the deal he signed in Chicago and won a cup there we'd never hear the end of it. If the best player we drafted since the entire lockout was Brendan ****ing Smith we'd also never hear the end of it.

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05-14-2012, 02:05 PM
  #230
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I hope they hire a coach that ever single person on this board loves.

A coach that leads the Caps to multiple Cups.

That's my first choice for the new coach.

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05-14-2012, 02:06 PM
  #231
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Disagree. The culture of responsibility and accountability is equally shared by all that is management and players alike.

If Coach 3 is not successful I suppose some will say well he was not the right guy for the job, ignoring the common denominator in all of this, the likes of Alex Ovechkin and some others. Hunter attempted to change a "culture" that existed on this team. I believe he was somewhat successful with some players but others did their utmost to resist and only accepted it begrudgingly. Hopefully the next coach can build upon what Hunter started and not move away from it.

Ovechkin needs to man up and accept responsibility and accountability as well and he can do that by surrending the "C" and say I need to concentrate first and foremost on being a better two way hockey player. I just have to look at his performance in Game 7 which I described as that he appeared "disinterested".
You mean pissed off because any time he was on the ice 9 other players tried their best to keep the puck away from him?

Funny how until last game Ovechkin was a team first playoff saint.

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05-14-2012, 02:06 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Icetime View Post
I hope they hire a coach that ever single person on this board loves.

A coach that leads the Caps to multiple Cups.

That's my first choice for the new coach.
You left out world peace.

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05-14-2012, 02:09 PM
  #233
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The NHL.com article cites Patrick Roy as a potential candidate. Is that even possible?

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05-14-2012, 02:10 PM
  #234
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I guess you can't argue with success, but Lombardi is a tool. Made public disparaging comments about jack johnson 2 years ago when johnson was still central to team's plans, and was rude and arrogant with kovalchuk when he visited for interview. I wouldnt take a page from lombardi regarding anything. And yes, yes, i know his team is marching to cup finals. Still.
So then it sounds like for some the criteria for our coach/GM are not just successful, but also like-able, or polite, or something of that nature.

I'd take Torts and I'd trade a 1st for him if it would bring us true success - his crappy post game interviews not withstanding. I'd take Keenan if he brought us a Cup then flamed out of town in 18 months afterwards. I'd take a convicted felon if he maximized this team instead of playing Aucoin over Halpern, or even of Ovi.

I no longer care if our coach or GM give good interviews, play the guys the minutes WE think should play, our hires his teenage nephew to coach the defense. As long as we win. I don't care if the GM drafts all Russians or all Swiss, Swedes or Latvians. As long as we get the results.

And the only result that matters at all anymore is winning a Cup. And right now we are no closer than we were in 2009. We just look different losing in the 2nd round... which does nothing to make me optimistic about this FO finally putting it all together.

GMGM peaked about 4 years ago. He doesn't have what it takes to get this team over the hump. He still doesn't believe there is any difference between a regular season coach (BB) and a playoff coach (DFH). GMGM hiring our next coach is a pure crap shoot. It could be Butch Cassidy again.

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05-14-2012, 02:14 PM
  #235
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You left out world peace.
What does Ron Artest know about hockey?!

Then again, the Kings are still in it, maybe he's their secret weapon?

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05-14-2012, 02:15 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Icetime View Post
I hope they hire a coach that ever single person on this board loves.

A coach that leads the Caps to multiple Cups.

That's my first choice for the new coach.
I disagree. I'm totally against that. And I'm offended you would suggest it.

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05-14-2012, 02:17 PM
  #237
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time to hire some who understands the importance of forechecking AND backchecking. hunter only believed in the latter and BB the former. it really shouldnt be that hard to find a guy who realizes you need to do both to win.

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05-14-2012, 02:18 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Again, how much of that is on Lidstrom and drafting Datsyuk and Zetterberg (which had everything to do with Hakan)?

You can just point at results and use that as a be all end all but if we bring Holland over next year I highly doubt he'd be able to come close to replicating his results in Detroit over here. If McPhee let Hossa go even and then Hossa signed the deal he signed in Chicago and won a cup there we'd never hear the end of it. If the best player we drafted since the entire lockout was Brendan ****ing Smith we'd also never hear the end of it.
You think winning a Cup is about having three studs? We've had Ovi, Nicky and either Green or Carlson, and we're not remotely close to winning a Cup.

It takes all 20 guys and the coach to be 100% on the same page, and that only happens with a GM who has a bonafide plan and a consistent vision for how he wants to run his team.

GMGM's plan has shifted with the breeze. From quick fix Jagr to rebuilding with BC to Hanlon's defense to BB's offense to BB's defense (nice try) to Hunter's "accountability". Never seen a GM throw as much $hit up against the wall to see what sticks as GM. GMGM has no vision, and this team has no identity under him.

Its time to let someone else find our next coach.

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05-14-2012, 02:18 PM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref9 View Post
Disagree. The culture of responsibility and accountability is equally shared by all that is management and players alike.

If Coach 3 is not successful I suppose some will say well he was not the right guy for the job, ignoring the common denominator in all of this, the likes of Alex Ovechkin and some others. Hunter attempted to change a "culture" that existed on this team. I believe he was somewhat successful with some players but others did their utmost to resist and only accepted it begrudgingly. Hopefully the next coach can build upon what Hunter started and not move away from it.

Ovechkin needs to man up and accept responsibility and accountability as well and he can do that by surrending the "C" and say I need to concentrate first and foremost on being a better two way hockey player. I just have to look at his performance in Game 7 which I described as that he appeared "disinterested".
I felt that Ovi's play in these playoffs was very inconsistent. some games awesome, some as you say, looked "disinterested". But I've never believed that's really what it is. Confused? Maybe. Frustrated? Definitely. But I thought that first goal deflated the whole team. They hadn't come back to win after giving up the first goal all playoffs, and I felt they just couldn't get over it.

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05-14-2012, 02:19 PM
  #240
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I disagree. I'm totally against that. And I'm offended you would suggest it.
Ok then I hope they hire a coach that is even more one-dimensional than BB and DH combined.

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05-14-2012, 02:19 PM
  #241
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@DSH It will be hard to find an inexperienced coach that realizes that, apparently.

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05-14-2012, 02:20 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by DynamoAO View Post
What does Ron Artest know about hockey?!

Then again, the Kings are still in it, maybe he's their secret weapon?
Good defense, he finishes his checks like Dale Hunter, just ask James Harden.

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05-14-2012, 02:20 PM
  #243
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time to hire some who understands the importance of forechecking AND backchecking. hunter only believed in the latter and BB the former. it really shouldnt be that hard to find a guy who realizes you need to do both to win.
amen.

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05-14-2012, 02:23 PM
  #244
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What about Bob Hartley?

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05-14-2012, 02:24 PM
  #245
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Roy would be a insteresting choice. I like the idea, he has a hunter like attuide and just think what he could do to help holtbys development

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05-14-2012, 02:28 PM
  #246
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Roy would be a insteresting choice. I like the idea, he has a hunter like attuide and just think what he could do to help holtbys development
Roy is completely nuts. As a player, I always enjoyed that about him. As a coach...kind of scares me.

I always worry about hugely successful players becoming coaches. It can certainly work, but for many there are "hunger" issues. How badly are you willing to kill yourself to succeed when you're already a legend and everyone treats you as such?

And that was my view before Hunter, though his stint only cemented it.

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05-14-2012, 02:30 PM
  #247
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Also here in Toronto, Dallas Eakins gets a lot of praise from players and management. He's currently coaching the Toronto Marlies.

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05-14-2012, 02:31 PM
  #248
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You think winning a Cup is about having three studs? We've had Ovi, Nicky and either Green or Carlson, and we're not remotely close to winning a Cup.

It takes all 20 guys and the coach to be 100% on the same page, and that only happens with a GM who has a bonafide plan and a consistent vision for how he wants to run his team.

GMGM's plan has shifted with the breeze. From quick fix Jagr to rebuilding with BC to Hanlon's defense to BB's offense to BB's defense (nice try) to Hunter's "accountability". Never seen a GM throw as much $hit up against the wall to see what sticks as GM. GMGM has no vision, and this team has no identity under him.

Its time to let someone else find our next coach.
How are we not "remotely close"

You can argue that we're closer than Boston was after 2010, when they choked badly to the Flyers. You can argue that we're closer than all 4 teams in the ECFs are after their respective showings last year. Did any of those teams look like they were cup caliber going into this season?

If we manage to get a legitimate all around 2nd line center and a mobile defensively responsible top 4 defenseman, not even necessarily Suter but Jackman or Gorges or something, with at least a MacTavish caliber coach I'd bet on us at least getting to the SCF next year.

And there is a difference between our studs and Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidstrom playing well. Namely Lidstrom.

Again, Holland's moves have been unimpressive since the lockout for the most part. And the amount of slack he's cut for the last 3 years is amazing.

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05-14-2012, 02:32 PM
  #249
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They need a coach that works with the club. Hunter didnt work with the strength's of the club. I am wondering GMGM is next or ted will keep him

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05-14-2012, 02:33 PM
  #250
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Some of the guys that sound intriguing to me are...

Ron Wilson + Tod McLellan - I think both did good in SJ, but it really is hard to win in the playoffs, and those SJ teams never had any depth at all, making it even tougher to win in the playoffs

Paul Maurice - did well with a Carolins team, besides this year, who really has never had much talent, but the year they had the best roster in his tenure they made it to the ECF

Bob Hartley - did great with Colorado, and good with Atlanta on a team with very few quality players. What's really intriguing about him is that he had coached many star players, and done well with them, as Kovalchuk, Hossa, Savard, and Kozlov all had their best years under him


As of now, who I want would be like this...

1. McLellan
2. Hartley
3. Maurice
4. Wilson


It also seems like all of these coaches' teams played a fairly aggressive style and liked to attack. If anyone has any more insight on coaching styles/tendencies of these guys please say so!

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