It was upgrades. I think this Wings team now is closer to the cup than prior to the '02 off season. Upgrades are needed whether its a big house cleaning or just simply adding on.
Wishful thinking.
Detroit was only a couple years removed from two straight cups. Lids was at the top of his game. Feds/Shanny were still productive. Yzerman could still contribute. Chelios was about to enjoy a big year.
We upgraded on good second tier guys like Kozzie and Lapointe. Malty and Draper were first class PK and energy line forwards.
Most of those guys were at the end of their contracts or careers, I'm sure if the Wings had a bunch of contracts ending we'd see a much bigger overhaul than we're going to this offseason.
It was also a lot easier to move players before the Salary cap came in. The only teams that turnover that many players in the offseason now, are bad ones.
Some of those guys were at the end. Not all.
We replaced:
Osgood with Hasek. Osgood stuck around the NHL longer.
We replaced Kozlov with Hull. Kozzy stuck around the league longer.
We replaced Lapointe with Robitaille; Lapointe stuck around the league longer.
The point is, after early exits in 99-00-01, there was a MASSIVE change in our roster.
Wishful thinking.
Detroit was only a couple years removed from two straight cups. Lids was at the top of his game. Feds/Shanny were still productive. Yzerman could still contribute. Chelios was about to enjoy a big year.
We upgraded on good second tier guys like Kozzie and Lapointe. Malty and Draper were first class PK and energy line forwards.
This is a different league now. The types of teams winning right now aren't the same types of teams winning in the early 2000's. It's easier to rebuild now.
Franzen deserves bashing for his play in Detroit because he has become a bit of a mercenary. Goals are his bread and butter and as long as he scores them at a reasonable rate he knows he's safe, so he puts sub-par effort into every other aspect of the game.
exactly.
Franzen should be kicked in the ass. Sit him down during the offseason and say pick it up or your traded.
This is a different league now. The types of teams winning right now aren't the same types of teams winning in the early 2000's. It's easier to rebuild now.
It's easier and harder.
There was no cap in 2002.
On the other hand, you don't need to be as good in 2012 as you did in 2002, so the mountain isn't as high.
Then again, the flipside is this:
There's so much parity in the league that any number of teams can win the cup. The team that's hungriest and willingness to sacrifice most is going to have a big advantage in the new NHL. perhaps that's why no team has won twice in the cap era.
So maybe, if you've already won with your core, it's HARDER now to retool in the cap era because a) long term contacts b) harder to change over a roster like you could in 1996 or 2001.
Last edited by RedWingsNow: 05-13-2012 at 09:38 PM.
It's easier and harder.
There was no cap in 2002.
On the other hand, you don't need to be as good in 2012 as you did in 2002, so the mountain isn't as high.
Then again, the flipside is this:
There's so much parity in the league that any number of teams can win the cup. The team that's hungriest and willingness to sacrifice most is going to have a big advantage in the new NHL. perhaps that's why no team has won twice in the cap era.
So maybe, if you've already one with your core, it's HARDER now to retool in the cap era because a) long term contacts b) harder to change over a roster like you could in 1996 or 2001.
It's different, but in so many ways it's the same.
In 2002, there's no cap and they buy all the good free agents and trade for Hasek. Then they start the playoffs in lazy/coast mode and almost certainly get bounced in the 1st round if Nick doesn't score from 6,000 feet out in game 3.
We could be sitting here next year wondering how the hell they were able to sign Free Agents X, Y, and Z, and still end up with the same attention deficit they showed this season.
Babcock needs more soldiers. He's made that pretty clear. I only wonder if they can turn enough of the roster over and kick the rest of the roster in the ass and get everyone back on their oars in just one summer.
It's different, but in so many ways it's the same.
In 2002, there's no cap and they buy all the good free agents and trade for Hasek. Then they start the playoffs in lazy/coast mode and almost certainly get bounced in the 1st round if Nick doesn't score from 6,000 feet out in game 3.
We could be sitting here next year wondering how the hell they were able to sign Free Agents X, Y, and Z, and still end up with the same attention deficit they showed this season.
Babcock needs more soldiers. He's made that pretty clear. I only wonder if they can turn enough of the roster over and kick the rest of the roster in the ass and get everyone back on their oars in just one summer.
IMO, I'm not even sure the Parise-Suter dream scenario does enough to make the rest of these guys hungry
Obviously, Parise would be a huge upgrade on Hudler. And Suter is an upgrade on Stuart.
But we're still looking a changeover of 3 guys. And while Parise is a skilled guy who works hard, he's smallish and Suter isn't physical.
I think Ken Holland has a challenge in front of him.
You want to get faster.. Your want to get grittier/tougher. You want to be more skilled.
That's a tall order.
Babcock needs more soldiers. He's made that pretty clear. I only wonder if they can turn enough of the roster over and kick the rest of the roster in the ass and get everyone back on their oars in just one summer.
I think he can kick the rest of them in the ass enough, but it involves telling some guys that they either step it up, or they get moved.
IMO, I'm not even sure the Parise-Suter dream scenario does enough to make the rest of these guys hungry
Obviously, Parise would be a huge upgrade on Hudler. And Suter is an upgrade on Stuart.
But we're still looking a changeover of 3 guys. And while Parise is a skilled guy who works hard, he's smallish and Suter isn't physical.
I think Ken Holland has a challenge in front of him.
You want to get faster.. Your want to get grittier/tougher. You want to be more skilled.
That's a tall order.
And he's talked about adding maybe one D and one forward. Maybe.
UNLESS he wants to make some trades (and why would this summer be different), the Wings have two UFA spots open and two RFA spots open. Helm and Abby as the RFAs would more than likely be brought back. That leaves Hudler and Homer, where even now Holland is letting Homer tell him what he wants to do....
That's not the recipe for any meaningful change in the forward ranks.
On defense, it's even worse, and worse yet if Lidstrom walks but they don't hit the homerun with Suter. So realistically, they would lose Stuart, and then have all of Kronwall, Q, White, E, and Kindl back. Maybe Smitty comes up, which would be an improvement, but did they just get much better?
If anything, Smith would be even more vulnerable against a team like the Preds because he's not great defensively and he's been prone to getting caught up the ice off turnovers.
If anything, Smith would be even more vulnerable against a team like the Preds because he's not great defensively and he's been prone to getting caught up the ice off turnovers.
He's gotta start learning some time, right? How did Kronwall and Fischer become NHL defensemen? By staying in GR for 3-4 yrs? Nope.
Exactly. I guess it's more important to have pylons and goats on the roster.....
Well, Ericsson is important, he shouldn't have played over him. But in hindsight he should've played over White. Kindl needed a chance and we've seen that experiment be all but over.
Well, Ericsson is important, he shouldn't have played over him. But in hindsight he should've played over White. Kindl needed a chance and we've seen that experiment be all but over.
Kindl needed his chance two years ago. We're burying these guys.
Quincey deserved a chance.
What good are the first 40 games of a season if you can't use them to test-drive a young defenseman?
And now we're going to have the same issue this year. Is Babcock going to want Smith and Kindl in the same lineup?
The Kindl experiment may be over here. But I bet he winds up as a good NHL defenseman to a team that has a decent development system.
The Wings are terrific drafters. But their development is mediocre.
Kindl needed his chance two years ago. We're burying these guys.
Quincey deserved a chance.
What good are the first 40 games of a season if you can't use them to test-drive a young defenseman?
And now we're going to have the same issue this year. Is Babcock going to want Smith and Kindl in the same lineup?
The Kindl experiment may be over here. But I bet he winds up as a good NHL defenseman to a team that has a decent development system.
The Wings are terrific drafters. But their development is mediocre.
To add on to this, I don't see any way that Smith starts the season on the roster. He made end the season on it, but if we sign Suter or someone else he'll get 'big minutes in GR'.
To add on to this, I don't see any way that Smith starts the season on the roster. He made end the season on it, but if we sign Suter or someone else he'll get 'big minutes in GR'.
This is a possibility because Smith is waiver exempt still for one year or the next 65 games (until he goes over that 80 game limit, he has 14 games under his belt so far.)
To add on to this, I don't see any way that Smith starts the season on the roster. He made end the season on it, but if we sign Suter or someone else he'll get 'big minutes in GR'.
Which is just beyond idiotic. Kronwall would have debuted in 2009 with this kind of mentality......
This is a possibility because Smith is waiver exempt still for one year or the next 65 games (until he goes over that 80 game limit, he has 14 games under his belt so far.)
He's the best prospect in the organization, according to many.
Does anyone think he's best served playing in GR for another year?
If he plays in Detroit, even if we sign Suter, I think you need to find a way to play him.
BTW, one of the issues with signing Suter, if Lids comes back, is that we've got Lids/Kronwall/Suter on left defense.
Ericsson can shift over, but he really needs to be on the left side too. Even Quincey and Kindl are natural LDs.
He's the best prospect in the organization, according to many.
Does anyone think he's best served playing in GR for another year?
If he plays in Detroit, even if we sign Suter, I think you need to find a way to play him.
BTW, one of the issues with signing Suter, if Lids comes back, is that we've got Lids/Kronwall/Suter on left defense.
Ericsson can shift over, but he really needs to be on the left side too. Even Quincey and Kindl are natural LDs.
Which is why White becomes pretty important again, at least for this upcoming season. We've seen how switching sides can cause some issues.
Which might have happened if Fischer's career didn't end
No, I still think he was slated to move up. Kronwall was on the roster when Fisch went down. The Wings may not have traded for Stuart though if Fischer had remained. Rafalski was brought in to replace Schneider as there was still a gap for Kronwall to move up to that spot (assuming anyone ever thought he'd get there).
