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Burke Draft Mega Day!!!!!!!!!

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Old
05-15-2012, 11:39 AM
  #76
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
To Anaheim: Nazem Kadri, Joe Colborne, and Korbinian Holzer.
To Toronto: A 2012 1st round draft pick (6th overall), a 2012 2nd round draft pick (36th overall), and the contract rights to Justin Schultz.

To Long Island: A 2012 1st round draft pick (Anaheim's 6th overall), Jesse Blacker, and a 2012 2nd round draft pick (Anaheim's 36th overall).
To Toronto: A 2012 1st round draft pick (4th overall).

To Columbus: A 2012 1st round draft pick (Long Island's 4th overall), Cody Franson, Jerry D'amigo, and a 2012 2nd round draft pick (Toronto's 35th overall).
To Toronto: A 2012 1st round draft pick (2nd overall).

Toronto drafts Ryan Murray 2nd overall, and Alex Galchenyuk 5th overall.
i havent read through all the replies here and someone else has probably already simplified this but lets do it again basically you are offerning nazim kadri, joe colborne, kobian holzer, jessie blacker, cody franson, jerry d'amigo, and a 35th overall pick for the second overall and a prized young dmen that everyone thinks is going to be quite good.

since all you are actually getting for the dman is his 'rights' then he might not be worth alot on a trade... maybe franson and the conditional second rounder based on his signing would be fair so lets take them out of the offer then see if the rest of it adds up to the second overall.

holzer and d'amigo are basically long shots to every be more then bit players and really add absolutely nothing to this proposal until they actually make the nhl and some team has a hole on the 4th line and needs a warm body. every team has alot of guys like this already in the system and doesnt need to trade for more of them until they prove they can play at the next level.

blacker seems a bit better prospect but no one is calling him the next great white hope. i dont think anyone would be giving up a second round pick for him if he was being dealt today straight up... so his value is minimal.

so it comes down to what kadri/colborne are worth... and colborne is being called a third liner now by most people in the know. he probably is worth a second to someone who thinks he will be better then that... not sure if columbus would?

and then there is kadri the only real thing of any value being offered up here. he isnt going to get you a top 5 pick in this draft though. and even with colborne/blacker thrown into the deal i still wouldnt give up a top 5 pick for him.

i think this trade could be fixed though... your basic idea is sound.

switch the names a bit... franson and a conditional second for the rights to the kid dman seems about comparable to what other teams would be offering. It might take more but we arent sure about that yet.

as for the second overall... columbus probably doesnt want a russian and doesnt really need dmen as much as it does forward talent and a goaltender.

If Toronto is going to go after Louongo in a seperate deal then they could give up Reimer as part of a legitmate offer for the second... and if the plan is to draft a new center to fill a top 6 role then they could give up both colborne and kadri. id say something else needed to be in the offer for columbus to bite and that might be toronto's first rounder from next year.

the pick probably would be a playoff pick if toronto lands louongo to be the new goalie. even if its not a top 10 pick its worth more then the marginal prospects in the op offer though. maybe columbus wouldnt actually want kadri/colborne though since they have johansson around already... maybe a winger would be better? Toronto does have carter ashton and tyler black they could sub into this proposal.

all in all id say 4 flawed pieces of around this value would be roughly comparable value to 1 russian gem in todays nhl trade market. even if the russian turns out to be a huge success, they still get paid alot of money. the very most successful russian picks include guys like ovechkin and malkin who get paid monster amounts of money and who's teams still dont have tons of success at playoff time. im not saying necessarily that ovechkin or malkin are the reason they dont have success... but these guys have fallen under heavy critism at times for not playing a team game at playoff time or not bringing their top A efforts. Datsyuk wasnt a top 5 pick but is a russian that avoids the same type of critism so some russians are okay... but the history of the ones drafted at the very top of the draft isnt a great history.

going back even to bure and molginy... we see more examples of guys that continuously put up amazing regular season numbers but still managed to draw massive amounts of critism for not playing a team game... not being winners at the key time of the season.

federov was able to win a hart... and be valuable in detroit for quite awhile.. but at the end we found out his desire for individual success was more important then team success. he got all upset at his playing time and forced a trade out of the winning team in detroit to a losing team just because he didnt want to be in yzerman's shadow anymore.

so even the very very best russian success stories of all time all carry with them a very dark cloud. as a result of this, i could easily see columbus willing to trade their pick this year. no team has been burnt more by drafting russians in the past decade then columbus has. i like the op idea of trying to turn bit players into a super kid for toronto. if they can manage it they should... but this idea of making 3 seperate deals to do it is kind of crazy. focus instead on paying a fair price to columbus instead.

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Old
05-15-2012, 01:32 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Keep holding onto that. Filatov was #6, Angelo Esposito fell to #20, and for good measure of non-trolling evidence Hughe Jessiman was #12 in a golden draft year. Zherdev was #4 that same year. Brule was a #6, Hammil was #8. Point is, every team drafts one apple that rots in the bag rather than turning into a tasty piece of fruit. Kadri is Toronto's.
Yeah, some players busted. Maybe with your all-encompassing wisdom you can tell us how these people have anything to do with Kadri.

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Old
05-15-2012, 03:05 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
To Columbus: A 2012 1st round draft pick (Long Island's 4th overall), Cody Franson, Jerry D'amigo, and a 2012 2nd round draft pick (Toronto's 35th overall).
To Toronto: A 2012 1st round draft pick (2nd overall).

Toronto drafts Ryan Murray 2nd overall, and Alex Galchenyuk 5th overall.
Cody Franson doesn't do a damned thing for this team - we already have JMFJ, Wisniewski, and Nikitin with good point shots, we've got two more (Regner low-profile, Savard high-profile) in the minors, and we dumped yet another (Clitsome) on waivers 'cause he was being crowded out. You could take Franson out of this deal and it'd become more attractive because then we don't have the extra pro contract to worry about.

D'amigo? Another somewhat undersized high-speed scoring forward prospect? Thanks, but we've got three of those, and they've had better performances in the AHL than him. If you want to send us a winger, we need one with a bit more size than that.

The second round pick is neat, but we've got two already, and this draft isn't exactly brimming with talent at that point.

I'm not seeing sufficient motivation to trade down here, but you get points for a better try than most.

(Oh, and if Galchenyuk was available at our new 4th overall position, we'd grab him. )

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05-15-2012, 03:18 PM
  #79
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Mark Spector was interviewed by Boomer yesterday on Fan960 and he thought Edmonton may take Ryan Murray #1.

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05-15-2012, 03:53 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Anaheim would happily take the chance on the 6th overall over Kadri, and they'd be right to. This deal does not work for Anaheim.
That's understandable. If I was in your position id probably do the same. Doesn't eliminate the fact that the deal still doesn't make sense for the Leafs. No point for the Leafs to give up on Kadri yet, no point to trade Colborne for a draft pick, and if we move Holzer it should be for help up front. Both teams say no.

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05-16-2012, 02:05 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by JMcLeaf View Post
That's understandable. If I was in your position id probably do the same. Doesn't eliminate the fact that the deal still doesn't make sense for the Leafs. No point for the Leafs to give up on Kadri yet, no point to trade Colborne for a draft pick, and if we move Holzer it should be for help up front. Both teams say no.
Then both sides say no. That's settled.

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Old
05-16-2012, 02:39 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
To Anaheim: Nazem Kadri, Joe Colborne, and Korbinian Holzer.
To Toronto: A 2012 1st round draft pick (6th overall), a 2012 2nd round draft pick (36th overall), and the contract rights to Justin Schultz.

To Long Island: A 2012 1st round draft pick (Anaheim's 6th overall), Jesse Blacker, and a 2012 2nd round draft pick (Anaheim's 36th overall).
To Toronto: A 2012 1st round draft pick (4th overall).

To Columbus: A 2012 1st round draft pick (Long Island's 4th overall), Cody Franson, Jerry D'amigo, and a 2012 2nd round draft pick (Toronto's 35th overall).
To Toronto: A 2012 1st round draft pick (2nd overall).

Toronto drafts Ryan Murray 2nd overall, and Alex Galchenyuk 5th overall.

We finally have a respectable prospect pool and you want to do

Kadri, Colborne, Holzer, Blacker, Franson, D'Amigo +pick
FOR
Schultz, Murray, Galchenyuk

its scary
i see the upside, but it'd be hard to convince myself to do that.
Also, Blacker.... He's my favourite prospect right now. lol

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Old
05-16-2012, 03:39 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
Because Ron Wilsons run and gun style could have had nothing to with that....
a condescending headshake? you're right, i probably deserve that. you know, not checking my facts and all. ron wilson was definetly to blame for the team giving up the 2nd most goals against in the league and defense is totally a strength now that he's gone. my bad. stupid facts. i'll check them now, one sec.

GAA During Ron Wilson's 64 games: 3.13
GAA During Randy Carlyle's 18 games: 3.56

wait for it....

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05-16-2012, 05:54 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LombardiTool View Post
Mark Spector was interviewed by Boomer yesterday on Fan960 and he thought Edmonton may take Ryan Murray #1.
I wouldn't take Mark Spector too seriously. At the deadline he was on the radio saying 100% sure the Oiler's were trading Hemsky. Literally 5 minutes later the Oiler's announced Hemsky to a 2 year extension.

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Old
05-16-2012, 06:01 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by JackBauer View Post
a condescending headshake? you're right, i probably deserve that. you know, not checking my facts and all. ron wilson was definetly to blame for the team giving up the 2nd most goals against in the league and defense is totally a strength now that he's gone. my bad. stupid facts. i'll check them now, one sec.

GAA During Ron Wilson's 64 games: 3.13
GAA During Randy Carlyle's 18 games: 3.56

wait for it....
I couldn't agree with you more.

The 18 games that immediately followed a 10 game losing streak and the firing of a coach is all the time that's needed for a coach to implement a new system.

Wilson's all offense system and league worst penalty kill despite a complete roster turnover during his tensure have nothing to do with how bad they were defensively.

Fire Carlyle!

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Old
05-16-2012, 06:19 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Cody Franson doesn't do a damned thing for this team - we already have JMFJ, Wisniewski, and Nikitin with good point shots, we've got two more (Regner low-profile, Savard high-profile) in the minors, and we dumped yet another (Clitsome) on waivers 'cause he was being crowded out. You could take Franson out of this deal and it'd become more attractive because then we don't have the extra pro contract to worry about.

D'amigo? Another somewhat undersized high-speed scoring forward prospect? Thanks, but we've got three of those, and they've had better performances in the AHL than him. If you want to send us a winger, we need one with a bit more size than that.

The second round pick is neat, but we've got two already, and this draft isn't exactly brimming with talent at that point.

I'm not seeing sufficient motivation to trade down here, but you get points for a better try than most.

(Oh, and if Galchenyuk was available at our new 4th overall position, we'd grab him. )
Good post, but it really speaks volumes about how much you actually know about a prospect if your questioning D'amigos size

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05-16-2012, 06:46 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
To Anaheim: Nazem Kadri, Joe Colborne, and Korbinian Holzer.
To Toronto: A 2012 1st round draft pick (6th overall), a 2012 2nd round draft pick (36th overall), and the contract rights to Justin Schultz.

To Long Island: A 2012 1st round draft pick (Anaheim's 6th overall), Jesse Blacker, and a 2012 2nd round draft pick (Anaheim's 36th overall).
To Toronto: A 2012 1st round draft pick (4th overall).

To Columbus: A 2012 1st round draft pick (Long Island's 4th overall), Cody Franson, Jerry D'amigo, and a 2012 2nd round draft pick (Toronto's 35th overall).
To Toronto: A 2012 1st round draft pick (2nd overall).

Toronto drafts Ryan Murray 2nd overall, and Alex Galchenyuk 5th overall.
so let me figure this out the leafs traded Kadri, Colborne, Holzer, Franson, D'Amigo, 35th, and Blacker for Ryan Murray and Justin Schultz....

call me crazy but why not save the confusion and trade all that to Columbus and just draft Murray, or even better trade all that to Edmonton for the first and nab Galchenyuk and Yakapov...

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05-16-2012, 06:47 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
To Anaheim: Nazem Kadri, Joe Colborne, and Korbinian Holzer.
To Toronto: A 2012 1st round draft pick (6th overall), a 2012 2nd round draft pick (36th overall), and the contract rights to Justin Schultz.

To Long Island: A 2012 1st round draft pick (Anaheim's 6th overall), Jesse Blacker, and a 2012 2nd round draft pick (Anaheim's 36th overall).
To Toronto: A 2012 1st round draft pick (4th overall).

To Columbus: A 2012 1st round draft pick (Long Island's 4th overall), Cody Franson, Jerry D'amigo, and a 2012 2nd round draft pick (Toronto's 35th overall).
To Toronto: A 2012 1st round draft pick (2nd overall).

Toronto drafts Ryan Murray 2nd overall, and Alex Galchenyuk 5th overall.
and Jokes on you when Edmonton just grabs Murray with the Number 1 overall Burkie

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Old
05-16-2012, 07:06 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Phatic View Post
i dont understand how this. Kadri may not be a regular yet, but he definitely will be. He's a former #7. Colborne, again probably year away, but a former 1st rounder himself, and projected as a 2nd line C. Anaheim gives up #6 and a 2nd rounder really, Schultz is a FA July 1st, so Toronto is just being nice by offering a little more so Anaheim gets something for him.
Kadri and Colborne do not get you the 6th over all pick.

Kadri might be a former number 7th pick, but they should of taken someone else.

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Old
05-16-2012, 07:20 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
I couldn't agree with you more.

The 18 games that immediately followed a 10 game losing streak and the firing of a coach is all the time that's needed for a coach to implement a new system.

Wilson's all offense system and league worst penalty kill despite a complete roster turnover during his tensure have nothing to do with how bad they were defensively.

Fire Carlyle!
You forgot the condescending head-shake!

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Old
05-16-2012, 07:22 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Good post, but it really speaks volumes about how much you actually know about a prospect if your questioning D'amigos size
I frequently go by combinations of multiple scouting reports by others to come up with assessments because I've learned (through numerous embarassing incidents ) that my amateur scouting ability in pretty much any sport you can name is, well, crap.

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05-16-2012, 10:28 PM
  #92
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I frequently go by combinations of multiple scouting reports by others to come up with assessments because I've learned (through numerous embarassing incidents ) that my amateur scouting ability in pretty much any sport you can name is, well, crap.
Even if, straight from Hockeysfuture

Quote:
A stocky forward with offensive upside, DAmigo has the tools to be a quality forward at the pro level. He has a strong, powerful build and can motor at both ends of the ice. He has a tireless work-ethic and leaves everything on the ice. DAmigo will have to watch his conditioning at the pro level and find ways to translate the scoring success he had in the NCAA and OHL. Should he be able to do so, the Maple Leafs will have a valuable forward on their hands.

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05-16-2012, 10:50 PM
  #93
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Even if, straight from Hockeysfuture
He's also 5'10" or 5'11" depending on what site you're looking at. There's "strong compared to most NHL players" and "strong for his size".

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05-16-2012, 11:02 PM
  #94
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He's also 5'10" or 5'11" depending on what site you're looking at. There's "strong compared to most NHL players" and "strong for his size".
He's certainly big for his size. Agreed, he is clearly not anything super impressive compared to most NHLers these days, however.

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05-17-2012, 12:45 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
Kadri and Colborne do not get you the 6th over all pick.

Kadri might be a former number 7th pick, but they should of taken someone else.
Thats ok, just saying value is close, I wouldnt trade that pick for those prospects either.

For the draft comment, . Even if youre not a kadri fan, show me someone below him who is better.


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05-17-2012, 12:52 AM
  #96
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Although I wouldn't trade Kadri at this point, if we had those two picks it would defiantly be Grigs at 2 and Dumba at 5 or Murray if still available.

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05-17-2012, 01:02 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Phatic View Post
Thats ok, just saying value is close, I wouldnt trade that pick for those prospects either.

For the draft comment, . Even if youre not a kadri fan, show me someone below him who is better.
Are you asking for just 1? Ryan O'Reilly...

And if you'd like another 1...Marcus Johansson

Dmitri Kulikov...and then there are quite a few who you could certainly debate about being better.

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05-17-2012, 01:22 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Crazy8oooo View Post
Are you asking for just 1? Ryan O'Reilly...

And if you'd like another 1...Marcus Johansson

Dmitri Kulikov...and then there are quite a few who you could certainly debate about being better.
way to be relevant with your argument there, late first and second rounders... do you know why they label them boom or bust?

and we haven't seen what kadri brings yet~


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05-17-2012, 01:48 AM
  #99
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way to be relevant with your argument there, late first and second rounders... do you know why they label them boom or bust?

and we haven't seen what kadri brings yet~
lol...I apologize...I must have misread your challenge then...

Quote:
Thats ok, just saying value is close, I wouldnt trade that pick for those prospects either.

For the draft comment, . Even if youre not a kadri fan, show me someone below him who is better.
Hmmm...nope, seems I read it correctly. You DID say below him, but since you are discounting late firsts and second rounders, then let me point out to you that Kulikov was neither of those. He was taken 14th...or does that not count either?

And you're correct in that we haven't seen what Kadri has to bring yet...but same can be said about several other players who look as though they could all be as good as if not better than him once they break into the bigs, as well.

Fact is, you asked for someone below him...if you didn't want the answer, you shouldn't have told the other poster to point someone out.

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05-17-2012, 02:29 AM
  #100
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lol...I apologize...I must have misread your challenge then...



Hmmm...nope, seems I read it correctly. You DID say below him, but since you are discounting late firsts and second rounders, then let me point out to you that Kulikov was neither of those. He was taken 14th...or does that not count either?

And you're correct in that we haven't seen what Kadri has to bring yet...but same can be said about several other players who look as though they could all be as good as if not better than him once they break into the bigs, as well.

Fact is, you asked for someone below him...if you didn't want the answer, you shouldn't have told the other poster to point someone out.
all right, i yield. you win the war of words. but if we're being honest, in that draft position, at that time, he was easily BPA, and until you reach kulikov no other prospects have shown that they have potentially greater value.

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