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2012/2013 Bruins Prospect Thread (Part 3)

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Old
08-11-2012, 09:42 PM
  #426
Mancini0518
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Originally Posted by Kirk- NEHJ View Post
Exactly right. And no one blinked an eye when he said it because that was the conventional thinking.

You wonder if there was a team out there sitting at the top of the 4th round getting ready to grab Grzelcyk... would not surprise me. And without a 4th themselves, B's weren't willing to risk it after not being able to get a 2nd to go grab Jimmy Vesey. They made sure they got Grzelcyk and you know- I can't fault them for it.

Sometimes you simply like a player enough to reach for them. Folks have made that case for Camara in 2011 and I can see the same kind of thing with Grizzy. Whether they work out or not is another thing entirely, but Boston clearly valued those guys differently, so if there's something to them, those could look like great picks down the road.
Kirk, quick question for you.

A lot of people were high on Button when he was first drafted thinking it was a good value pick. Since the draft he has really fallen and i noticed he is in the later half of the 20's on your list. What's happened to his game?

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08-11-2012, 11:57 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Mancini0518 View Post
Kirk, quick question for you.

A lot of people were high on Button when he was first drafted thinking it was a good value pick. Since the draft he has really fallen and i noticed he is in the later half of the 20's on your list. What's happened to his game?
Very little. And therein lies the problem, 3 years down the road.


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08-12-2012, 06:52 AM
  #428
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Very little. And therein lies the problem, 3 years down the road.
I believe DKH was talking to someone in the B's org and Button came up. B's were very surprised at how little he knew about playing the game. Apparently he had been getting by on his talent alone for quite awhile. They basically had to teach him how to play the game at the pro level, but were encouraged with his progress late last year. I know Dan went to at least one game down the stretch where he thought Button was the best player on the ice hands down.

PRO D is going to be crowded this year, but I am hoping Button continues to improve because I think he has the physical tools to succeed in the NHL.


Last edited by GloryDaze4877: 08-12-2012 at 09:32 AM. Reason: typos
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Old
08-12-2012, 09:26 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Mancini0518 View Post
Kirk, quick question for you.

A lot of people were high on Button when he was first drafted thinking it was a good value pick. Since the draft he has really fallen and i noticed he is in the later half of the 20's on your list. What's happened to his game?
I was one of those pretty high on him at the time.

He's regressed since drafted, and some of that has to do with what GD said.

For me, the issue with Button right now is that he's a mobile, effective passer who isn't using any of those attributes in his game. He's been pretty tentative and played it safe for the most part since turning pro, and the fact that the Bruins had to spend a lot of time/effort to teach him what he needed to be doing hurt his development.

Solid, solid guy-- I don't want to take anything away from, and going into last season, I had him in the top-10 for the writeup I did in the Maple Street Press Bruins Annual (before they folded), but this past season was a major step back for him.

If he can get his development back on track this year, he has a shot, but other D have passed him up on the depth chart for now, and given the additions of veterans Johnson and Exelby, that only leaves about 4 openings. Warsofsky and Bartkowski are locks for two more. So now you're down to 2 more-- if Krug goes down to the AHL, that leaves just one plus seventh for Button and he'll be competing with Zach Trotman, Kevan Miller, Tommy Cross, Colby Cohen for that one.

Gonna be tough for Button to be a full-timer in the AHL this year with that kind of competition, so he'll have to hit the ground running. But again- he has the right attitude, work ethic and character to do it.

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08-12-2012, 11:49 AM
  #430
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In terms of the math, one of those guys is going to be the #7 in Boston and not in Providence. Not sure who it will be but I figure it will be either Exelby or Johnson, but it could be Krug, or even Bartowski. No way Boston goes with only 6 D-men especially if Hamilton is #6 as expected

So that basically means that Button, Cross, Trotman, Millar, and Cohen are competing for 3 spots

I have to figure that there will be a deal by the end of camp

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08-12-2012, 12:17 PM
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk- NEHJ View Post
Exactly right. And no one blinked an eye when he said it because that was the conventional thinking.

You wonder if there was a team out there sitting at the top of the 4th round getting ready to grab Grzelcyk... would not surprise me. And without a 4th themselves, B's weren't willing to risk it after not being able to get a 2nd to go grab Jimmy Vesey. They made sure they got Grzelcyk and you know- I can't fault them for it.

Sometimes you simply like a player enough to reach for them. Folks have made that case for Camara in 2011 and I can see the same kind of thing with Grizzy. Whether they work out or not is another thing entirely, but Boston clearly valued those guys differently, so if there's something to them, those could look like great picks down the road.
What are the chances they kind of used the same thinking with Subban?

We can agree that he might have been chosen a bit early. He would not last to their spot in the 2nd and the case being they had no 2nd took him in the 1st.
Possible they had a Finn (or another) as a 1st pick but when they put a Finn and Subban on the same scale, it tipped to Subban??

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08-12-2012, 12:36 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by GloryDaze4877 View Post
I believe DKH was talking to someone in the B's org and Button came up. B's were very surprised at how little he knew about playing the game. Apparently he had been getting by on his talent alone for quite awhile. They basically had to teach him how to play the game at the pro level, but were encouraged with his progress late last year. I know Dan went to at least one game down the stretch where he thought Button was the best player on the ice hands down.

PRO D is going to be crowded this year, but I am hoping Button continues to improve because I think he has the physical tools to succeed in the NHL.
Hockey sense is everything for defensemen in today's NHL. That's why the smaller guys we have are in a much better position to succeed.

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08-12-2012, 11:14 PM
  #433
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I have to think warsofsky is on the trading block. Krug is more talented and I don't think there is room for 2 NHL defensemen under 6' on the same team.

I like to think florek could be a goal scoring 3rd liner with Penner upside at this point since he's got some similar tools and size.

Knight to me has the feel of an injury prone player. I read he's already suffered a few concussions and the way concussions are handled now, another one could be career threatening before he even gets going. Especially since he plays such a hard nosed game.

I want spooner to be on the B's roster this year splitting time with caron on the 3rd line and getting significant PP time when he plays. The B's lack someone who can keep the puck on their stick in traffic in the offensive zone on the half wall and spooner might be an answer. He might not have david krecjis vision but krecji never seems comfortable on the half wall to me and always coughs it up when he's pursued.

In conclusion, high end goaltending depth should be used as leverage. There is no need for 2 elite goalies on an NHL roster if one of them can net you a top flight player or high draft pick. I like the idea of trading either subban or rask if subban pans out simply because you don't need 2 goalies to win. Having 2 guys who can help win you regular season games is nice but when the playoffs start you typically always hand the keys to the top goalie and let him play the duration. thats a few years down the road however.

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08-12-2012, 11:30 PM
  #434
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Hey, can you guys answer a few questions for me about one or more Bruins prospects?

I'm looking at picking up Brian Ferlin as a free agent for my keeper farm team. Looks like he has a good sized body for a winger. He absolutely tore up the USHL 2 years ago and now is going on his 2nd year at Cornell. Where do you guys see his ceiling at and where do you see him realistically settling in as?

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08-13-2012, 12:09 AM
  #435
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Hey, can you guys answer a few questions for me about one or more Bruins prospects?

I'm looking at picking up Brian Ferlin as a free agent for my keeper farm team. Looks like he has a good sized body for a winger. He absolutely tore up the USHL 2 years ago and now is going on his 2nd year at Cornell. Where do you guys see his ceiling at and where do you see him realistically settling in as?
Just as an outside fan with no real knowledge of him besides scouting reports and stats he's maybe 4-5 years away from regular NHL playing time as a 3rd line power forward. He has a good shot, good frame and is adept at possessing the puck down low. I see him as a grinder with 15-20 goal upside in his peak years.

He's going into his sophomore year at cornell and I could see him staying through the full 4 years with a year or 2 in the AHL. He put up good numbers last year until he got hurt about half way through the season.

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08-13-2012, 01:55 PM
  #436
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From the UnitedStatesofHockey.com, A review of Grzelcyk's performance at WJC camp in Lake Placid.

http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2012...final-wrap-up/

Matt Grzelcyk — In the games I saw him play in, I kept writing down Grzelcyk’s name, which is difficult to spell, you guys. I have a feeling he’s going to be the odd man out because 1993-born Reilly and Gostisbehere are a little more advanced and bigger, but Grzelcyk’s offensive game was lights out in this camp. He had as many points as both those guys (four, all assists) and showed his high-end to elite skating ability. Grzelcyk is such a heads up player, I wouldn’t be surprised if he kept himself in the conversation for much of the first half. This might not be his time to make the team, but he’s going to be there in 2014 without a doubt. Some thought the Bruins reached to grab Grzelcyk 85th overall. Nope.

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08-15-2012, 07:41 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by NeelyFan08 View Post
From the UnitedStatesofHockey.com, A review of Grzelcyk's performance at WJC camp in Lake Placid.

http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2012...final-wrap-up/

Matt Grzelcyk — In the games I saw him play in, I kept writing down Grzelcyk’s name, which is difficult to spell, you guys. I have a feeling he’s going to be the odd man out because 1993-born Reilly and Gostisbehere are a little more advanced and bigger, but Grzelcyk’s offensive game was lights out in this camp. He had as many points as both those guys (four, all assists) and showed his high-end to elite skating ability. Grzelcyk is such a heads up player, I wouldn’t be surprised if he kept himself in the conversation for much of the first half. This might not be his time to make the team, but he’s going to be there in 2014 without a doubt. Some thought the Bruins reached to grab Grzelcyk 85th overall. Nope.
its always good when a player who isnt high on the expectations list impresses the reviewer enough to get in the top performers list. because you know its not his name thats carrying him to that level.

i was impressed by Grzelcyk during prospect camp.

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08-17-2012, 07:25 PM
  #438
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Hockey News 2013 yearbook top 10 Bruins prospects

1.Hamilton
2.Subban
3.Koko
4.Knight
5.Spooner
6.Sauve
7.Bartkowski
8.Cross
9.Warsofsky
10.Grzelcyk

By Mike Loftus

1-6 is fine I guess, he jumps the shark 7-10 imo

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08-17-2012, 07:33 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Saxon Eric View Post
1.Hamilton
2.Subban
3.Koko
4.Knight
5.Spooner
6.Sauve
7.Bartkowski
8.Cross
9.Warsofsky
10.Grzelcyk

By Mike Loftus

1-6 is fine I guess, he jumps the shark 7-10 imo
Cross shouldn't be in the top 20. I think Subban is too high also.

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08-19-2012, 08:28 AM
  #440
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Cross shouldn't be in the top 20. I think Subban is too high also.
I would have agreed too, and although an exceptionally small sample sized I`m going on, the game against the Russians here on Tuesday was an eye opener for me. What he exhibits in skill/talent (with room to improve most definitely) was a great example of why/what the Bruin brass saw in the kid.

I was not at all expecting him to be as refined as he was, he wasn`t tested often but when he was, he answered the bell which was impressive, usually with a young kid (heck, we`ve seen it with vets) when they aren`t busy, easy to let in softies or lose focus, he actually made his best saves late which was awsome to watch

Long ways for the kid to go but looks really solid

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08-19-2012, 12:03 PM
  #441
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Cross shouldn't be in the top 20. I think Subban is too high also.
Are we really that low on cross now? His work ethic and leadership alone makes me want to put him in the top 20, but he shouldn't be over gryz based on what Kirk has said

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08-20-2012, 12:25 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by Saxon Eric View Post
1.Hamilton
2.Subban
3.Koko
4.Knight
5.Spooner
6.Sauve
7.Bartkowski
8.Cross
9.Warsofsky
10.Grzelcyk

By Mike Loftus

1-6 is fine I guess, he jumps the shark 7-10 imo
Did they only do the top 10? Curious where they see Trotman...

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08-20-2012, 12:48 PM
  #443
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Are we really that low on cross now? His work ethic and leadership alone makes me want to put him in the top 20, but he shouldn't be over gryz based on what Kirk has said
Maybe I'm thinking of somebody else, but I think Crossfire's a little over the top when it comes to Tommy Cross. Seems like he's always calling him out.

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08-20-2012, 01:08 PM
  #444
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Did they only do the top 10? Curious where they see Trotman...
Just 10

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08-20-2012, 09:20 PM
  #445
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Maybe I'm thinking of somebody else, but I think Crossfire's a little over the top when it comes to Tommy Cross. Seems like he's always calling him out.
Correct I just don't think hes good at all. I know hes a high character guy but between the knee problems and his lack of skill I don't see him amounting to anything.

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08-20-2012, 09:38 PM
  #446
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Correct I just don't think hes good at all. I know hes a high character guy but between the knee problems and his lack of skill I don't see him amounting to anything.
He has strong leadership skills, you know he was the captain at BC for 14 years right?

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08-20-2012, 10:17 PM
  #447
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Correct I just don't think hes good at all. I know hes a high character guy but between the knee problems and his lack of skill I don't see him amounting to anything.
Yeah, to each his own. We all see these players differently. At his best, Cross has reminded me of Seidenberg. I don't think he has that same ceiling, but I saw similarities in style and effectiveness at BC. Can he be that same guy in the pro's? Or will he be the next Andrew Alberts? Will his knees hold up? We'll see. That Providence defense is a crowded house too. Should make for an interesting (and hopefully competitive) season.

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08-20-2012, 10:28 PM
  #448
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So much of NHL hockey is about time & space. A split-second's worth of hesitation is the difference between making the play defensively or the puck ending up in the back of your net.

While I admire Cross' leadership and passion, I believe that in his heart of hearts, he's thinking about that knee every time he goes over the boards. Does he wonder about a skate blade caught in a rut ending his career? Is he thinking about getting drilled when he goes back to retrieve the puck? When you bring his lack of offensive upside, you have to be able to compensate by making the defensive plays and for him, that means playing instinctively. If he's thinking about it, then you can all but guarantee he'll lose his share of footraces to loose pucks. You simply have to play on instinct to be a performer at this level...

Maybe he plays with the kind of guts and controlled abandon that guys who haven't had multiple knee procedures do, but human nature is human nature. I have my doubts, and I just think that when the rubber meets the road and he's at that highest level or close to it, he's going to be a hair behind the play at that moment of truth.

I simply do not understand this view that he's a top-10 anything- classic case to me of people giving him a pass based on his being an early 2nd-rounder five+ years ago. Nonetheless-- pulling for him and certainly hope I'm wrong (wouldn't be the 1st time). Regardless of how he does in hockey, Cross will be a winner at life. Just don't see longevity and 2nd-round performance in his future with Boston.

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08-20-2012, 11:07 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by Kirk- NEHJ View Post
So much of NHL hockey is about time & space. A split-second's worth of hesitation is the difference between making the play defensively or the puck ending up in the back of your net.

While I admire Cross' leadership and passion, I believe that in his heart of hearts, he's thinking about that knee every time he goes over the boards. Does he wonder about a skate blade caught in a rut ending his career? Is he thinking about getting drilled when he goes back to retrieve the puck? When you bring his lack of offensive upside, you have to be able to compensate by making the defensive plays and for him, that means playing instinctively. If he's thinking about it, then you can all but guarantee he'll lose his share of footraces to loose pucks. You simply have to play on instinct to be a performer at this level...

Maybe he plays with the kind of guts and controlled abandon that guys who haven't had multiple knee procedures do, but human nature is human nature. I have my doubts, and I just think that when the rubber meets the road and he's at that highest level or close to it, he's going to be a hair behind the play at that moment of truth.

I simply do not understand this view that he's a top-10 anything- classic case to me of people giving him a pass based on his being an early 2nd-rounder five+ years ago. Nonetheless-- pulling for him and certainly hope I'm wrong (wouldn't be the 1st time). Regardless of how he does in hockey, Cross will be a winner at life. Just don't see longevity and 2nd-round performance in his future with Boston.
Just playing devils advocate here but how is his injury and the demeanor he has about it different that any other injury? Bergeron and Horton have had multiple concussions, Krejci's broken his wrist, just about every hockey player has been injured. These guys never get criticized for possibly being worried about another injury every time they're on the ice so why should Cross? Has her ever said that he thinks about his knee when he's making cuts and skating? If he has i apologize that I'm wrong but I'm just trying to understand it.

Ive never heard any Bruin fan say that they're worried about the reckless abandon that Bergeron and Horton will show, so we're going to start seconding guessing players now?

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08-21-2012, 06:26 AM
  #450
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Just playing devils advocate here but how is his injury and the demeanor he has about it different that any other injury? Bergeron and Horton have had multiple concussions, Krejci's broken his wrist, just about every hockey player has been injured. These guys never get criticized for possibly being worried about another injury every time they're on the ice so why should Cross? Has her ever said that he thinks about his knee when he's making cuts and skating? If he has i apologize that I'm wrong but I'm just trying to understand it.

Ive never heard any Bruin fan say that they're worried about the reckless abandon that Bergeron and Horton will show, so we're going to start seconding guessing players now?
Actually, when Bergeron first returned from his concussion it sure seemed like his effectiveness was off. Why don't you go back and look at his 08-09 numbers and compare them to every other season he played.

Why was he a shadow of his former self that 1st year back?

Obviously, he was rusty with nearly a whole season missed, but there was more to it than just timing being off. One can make the case, and I in fact did so with Mick C. (doc5hole) during that 08-09 season during a game in Boston that Bergeron's tentativeness was costing him-- he was already a pretty average skater before the concussion, so just a little hesitation cost him plays that he used to readily make before the concussion. When so much of a player's effectiveness has to do with his head/hockey sense like Bergeron, and he suffers a significant brain injury like he did, there is going to be an effect.

Now, Bergeron has been able to return to form and ended up becoming a Selke Trophy winner, which is great for him and obviously the Bruins. But if you don't think that he wonders from time to time about whether the next game he plays will be his last, then you're simply wrong. You're wrong because I've had conversations with Bergeron about his concussion history and the acceptance that the next hit from behind into the boards or high hit to the head could spell the end of his career. He knows that and just because we're not writing about it all the time doesn't mean it isn't true.

No, Cross has never said anything about being worried about his injury, but he does get a little bent out of shape when asked about it. I've seen that from him firsthand. But here's the thing- knees are fragile and human nature is human nature. He's a pro and actually to my POV, the fact that he "doth protest too much" about the knee is cause for concern. He's thinking about it. Can I prove it? No. Do I feel confident in my opinion? Yes.

You're welcome to think what you want. I don't mind being challenged, but I do get tired, Mancini, of this idea that you put forth in your last sentence (and I see on this board quite a bit) that states because you/other fans aren't reading about things in the Globe or Herald or wherever that they aren't happening. The game is played by humans, not robots and human nature/survival is a part of it.

Like I said- hockey is about time and space, especially at the NHL level when players are bigger and faster and players must read/react so much faster. Maybe Cross ends up being just fine, but based on what I saw from him in his 1st couple of games in Providence, I have my doubts. And that was at the AHL level...

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