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08-21-2012, 06:26 AM
  #451
Kirk- NEHJ
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Originally Posted by Mancini0518 View Post
Just playing devils advocate here but how is his injury and the demeanor he has about it different that any other injury? Bergeron and Horton have had multiple concussions, Krejci's broken his wrist, just about every hockey player has been injured. These guys never get criticized for possibly being worried about another injury every time they're on the ice so why should Cross? Has her ever said that he thinks about his knee when he's making cuts and skating? If he has i apologize that I'm wrong but I'm just trying to understand it.

Ive never heard any Bruin fan say that they're worried about the reckless abandon that Bergeron and Horton will show, so we're going to start seconding guessing players now?
Actually, when Bergeron first returned from his concussion it sure seemed like his effectiveness was off. Why don't you go back and look at his 08-09 numbers and compare them to every other season he played.

Why was he a shadow of his former self that 1st year back?

Obviously, he was rusty with nearly a whole season missed, but there was more to it than just timing being off. One can make the case, and I in fact did so with Mick C. (doc5hole) during that 08-09 season during a game in Boston that Bergeron's tentativeness was costing him-- he was already a pretty average skater before the concussion, so just a little hesitation cost him plays that he used to readily make before the concussion. When so much of a player's effectiveness has to do with his head/hockey sense like Bergeron, and he suffers a significant brain injury like he did, there is going to be an effect.

Now, Bergeron has been able to return to form and ended up becoming a Selke Trophy winner, which is great for him and obviously the Bruins. But if you don't think that he wonders from time to time about whether the next game he plays will be his last, then you're simply wrong. You're wrong because I've had conversations with Bergeron about his concussion history and the acceptance that the next hit from behind into the boards or high hit to the head could spell the end of his career. He knows that and just because we're not writing about it all the time doesn't mean it isn't true.

No, Cross has never said anything about being worried about his injury, but he does get a little bent out of shape when asked about it. I've seen that from him firsthand. But here's the thing- knees are fragile and human nature is human nature. He's a pro and actually to my POV, the fact that he "doth protest too much" about the knee is cause for concern. He's thinking about it. Can I prove it? No. Do I feel confident in my opinion? Yes.

You're welcome to think what you want. I don't mind being challenged, but I do get tired, Mancini, of this idea that you put forth in your last sentence (and I see on this board quite a bit) that states because you/other fans aren't reading about things in the Globe or Herald or wherever that they aren't happening. The game is played by humans, not robots and human nature/survival is a part of it.

Like I said- hockey is about time and space, especially at the NHL level when players are bigger and faster and players must read/react so much faster. Maybe Cross ends up being just fine, but based on what I saw from him in his 1st couple of games in Providence, I have my doubts. And that was at the AHL level...

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08-21-2012, 06:30 AM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Mancini0518 View Post
Just playing devils advocate here but how is his injury and the demeanor he has about it different that any other injury? Bergeron and Horton have had multiple concussions, Krejci's broken his wrist, just about every hockey player has been injured. These guys never get criticized for possibly being worried about another injury every time they're on the ice so why should Cross? Has her ever said that he thinks about his knee when he's making cuts and skating? If he has i apologize that I'm wrong but I'm just trying to understand it.

Ive never heard any Bruin fan say that they're worried about the reckless abandon that Bergeron and Horton will show, so we're going to start seconding guessing players now?
Horty was a target for many here in the first few months last season (myself included), well, perhaps not a target, but it was aggressively noticed with concern from many how hesitant his game was coming back from the 1st concussion, nobody knows what Horty`s mindset was at that time, we judge by the play on the ice, and the Horton we saw from October to mid December IMO, had all the appearances of a player who very much was lacking confidence with being able to play the game the way he did pre-concussion.

He was playing far more Horton-like hockey until that useless pilon Sestito did what he did though but nobody can know/predict what any players mindset is, we can only judge by the play on the ice. Bergy was always a bit shifty on the ice, but anyone who watched him pre concussion #1 and watch him now, his on ice awareness is absolutely stunning, his quick starts, stops, change of direction is both hockey IQ and self protection from taking big hits IMO

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08-21-2012, 10:54 AM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Kirk- NEHJ View Post
Actually, when Bergeron first returned from his concussion it sure seemed like his effectiveness was off. Why don't you go back and look at his 08-09 numbers and compare them to every other season he played.

Why was he a shadow of his former self that 1st year back?

Obviously, he was rusty with nearly a whole season missed, but there was more to it than just timing being off. One can make the case, and I in fact did so with Mick C. (doc5hole) during that 08-09 season during a game in Boston that Bergeron's tentativeness was costing him-- he was already a pretty average skater before the concussion, so just a little hesitation cost him plays that he used to readily make before the concussion. When so much of a player's effectiveness has to do with his head/hockey sense like Bergeron, and he suffers a significant brain injury like he did, there is going to be an effect.

Now, Bergeron has been able to return to form and ended up becoming a Selke Trophy winner, which is great for him and obviously the Bruins. But if you don't think that he wonders from time to time about whether the next game he plays will be his last, then you're simply wrong. You're wrong because I've had conversations with Bergeron about his concussion history and the acceptance that the next hit from behind into the boards or high hit to the head could spell the end of his career. He knows that and just because we're not writing about it all the time doesn't mean it isn't true.

No, Cross has never said anything about being worried about his injury, but he does get a little bent out of shape when asked about it. I've seen that from him firsthand. But here's the thing- knees are fragile and human nature is human nature. He's a pro and actually to my POV, the fact that he "doth protest too much" about the knee is cause for concern. He's thinking about it. Can I prove it? No. Do I feel confident in my opinion? Yes.

You're welcome to think what you want. I don't mind being challenged, but I do get tired, Mancini, of this idea that you put forth in your last sentence (and I see on this board quite a bit) that states because you/other fans aren't reading about things in the Globe or Herald or wherever that they aren't happening. The game is played by humans, not robots and human nature/survival is a part of it.

Like I said- hockey is about time and space, especially at the NHL level when players are bigger and faster and players must read/react so much faster. Maybe Cross ends up being just fine, but based on what I saw from him in his 1st couple of games in Providence, I have my doubts. And that was at the AHL level...

Its one thing to say a guy won't make it based on skill or attitude i just hate when people here have said it because he's afraid to get injured again. Its been 3 years since his last surgery and he's played a lot of hockey since then. Im sure that he thinks about it when he put the brace on but i can't think that he goes into corners worrying about getting injured again. I wasn't challenging you, as i said if Cross has come out and said that he thinks about it on the ice than I will admit i was wrong.


Bergeron was an example, and i don't need to go back and look at his numbers as i was at 3/4th of the games. Yes, he was tentative it may have been due to rust and it probably had a little to do with what was going on in his head but he came back pretty quickly from his third concussion against Tampa so i get the feeling he may be a little less weary of his next concussion. Again, you've spoken to him and ill take your word for it this conversation is more about Cross.

I just don't like posters saying that he is scared and what not when there is no evidence of it. Is he a step behind most plays because of his knee? Probably. Has his knee hindered his ability level? without a doubt. I just can't fathom that people who don't know the situation would pile on this kid that he is scared to play hockey at this stage. I quoted you because knew you would give me a straight answer in response and i appreciate that. My statements were not directed solely at you so i don't want you to think that i am in some way challenging you.

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08-21-2012, 11:43 AM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Mancini0518 View Post
Its one thing to say a guy won't make it based on skill or attitude i just hate when people here have said it because he's afraid to get injured again. Its been 3 years since his last surgery and he's played a lot of hockey since then. Im sure that he thinks about it when he put the brace on but i can't think that he goes into corners worrying about getting injured again. I wasn't challenging you, as i said if Cross has come out and said that he thinks about it on the ice than I will admit i was wrong.


Bergeron was an example, and i don't need to go back and look at his numbers as i was at 3/4th of the games. Yes, he was tentative it may have been due to rust and it probably had a little to do with what was going on in his head but he came back pretty quickly from his third concussion against Tampa so i get the feeling he may be a little less weary of his next concussion. Again, you've spoken to him and ill take your word for it this conversation is more about Cross.

I just don't like posters saying that he is scared and what not when there is no evidence of it. Is he a step behind most plays because of his knee? Probably. Has his knee hindered his ability level? without a doubt. I just can't fathom that people who don't know the situation would pile on this kid that he is scared to play hockey at this stage. I quoted you because knew you would give me a straight answer in response and i appreciate that. My statements were not directed solely at you so i don't want you to think that i am in some way challenging you.
Big difference between playing scared and playing tentative. I don't think either Bergy upon his return from his first concussion was "scared", but there's no way anyone watching him play can say he had anywhere near the aggressive/assertive aspect to his game he had, same for Horty, took him about 2, maybe 3 months to actually look comfortable out there.

Broke my ankle 2 times in virtually the same place years ago, hardly a "brain injury" and I was hardly scared, but I sure took every opportunity to turn into the side with the foot/ankle that I had never experienced an issue with

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08-21-2012, 12:39 PM
  #455
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Im not quite sure if these questions have been addressed already on this thread so I apologize in advance if there is redundancies.

Is there any level of concern with Jared Knights injury history. He seems to play with reckless abandon and it has cost him physically in the past with leg injuries and a concussion. Knowing what concussions mean towards an NHL career now with so many derailed due to hits to the head, is there a hesitation about his health going forward impacting his production. It sounds like he doesn't plan on changing his style of play, which I appreciate as a B's fan, as I don't want a rookie to already have to start playing more tentatively but max sauve comes to mind when i think of a high-upside player who is perennially injured. Albeit, both of them play very different types of games.

The second question I have is regarding Hamilton and his status on Niagara. If there is a lockout this year, I'm under the impression he has to return to juniors and stay there even if the NHL comes back in time for the winter classic, which seems to be the consensus. Would it be beneficial for him to get traded from Niagara to a different team in the OHL? I know he's had great success in Niagara but I've read that they play a "run and gun" scheme. I liken it to the Phoenix Suns (blasphemy to bring up the NBA on an NHL driven website, I know). however the comparison struck me as soon as i read that Niagara is always looking to attack, typically relying on their goaltender to bail the defense out if they are caught in the attacking zone.

I know the bruins play nearly the exact opposite of that scheme so if hamilton is sent back to junior, I'd like him to get more experience playing a stay at home game, even if it negatively affects his offensive numbers. I've seen a handful of games he plays in, and even in a 5 on 5 scenario I've seen him routinely caught below the hashmarks. Although I've seen him have a hand in a few goals so close to opposing crease, I doubt Julien and co would ever allow a defensemen to so readily skate so low into the zone so often. Thoughts from the braintrust of HF would be appreciated, thank you.

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08-21-2012, 04:43 PM
  #456
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Saw this article/ blog on the main boards thought it was pretty good. It's about an interesting Bruins prospect to watch.(Camper)


http://thepipelineshow.blogspot.ca/2...on-bruins.html

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08-25-2012, 12:06 PM
  #457
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Been thinking about this for a while, but a closer analysis of the Bruins drafting history seems to indicate that they often go for players that are the best by position. I know this goes against the Bruins stated philosophy of taking the best player available at that drafting slot.

2003 Patrice Bergeron, arguably the best defensive forward in the draft.
2006 Phil Kessel, arguably the best pure sniper in the draft
Brad Marchand, arguably the best pest in the draft
Milan Lucic, arguably the best power forward in the draft
2010 Tyler Seguin, arguably the best centre in the draft
2011 Dougie Hamilton, arguably the best all-around defenseman in the draft.
2012 Malcom Subban, the Bruins are hoping that he winds up being the best goalie in the draft.

So yes there has been changes to he GM and the scouting staff over this time, but I think that this is a main reason for the Bruins success. It is this drafting of high-end players at each position that has allowed them to be one of the most well-balanced, deep team in the league.

Sure some of this is luck and some of the picks were no-brainers (Seguin and Hamilton), but I think that this result of drafting the best player at a specific position per draft can be compared to any other crop in the league.

I guess the optimist in me wants to believe that there has been some strategy involved. This may also explain why they went with Malcom Subban with their first in the past year's draft.

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08-25-2012, 05:16 PM
  #458
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Your premise is based almost entirely on the benefit of hindsight- at least as far as 2003, 2006 years go.

Hate to disagree, but I covered those drafts and Bergeron, Lucic were not universally hailed as you describe them. The term "arguably" is so vague and nebulous, but I can tell you that even though scouts recognized upside in both players, neither pick was greeted with much fanfare and at the least, they weren't hailed at or near the top of their class for the traits you describe.

The other guys-- well, we're still way to early in the process to say for sure. Seguin was a no-brainer at 2-- clearly the best player on the board, so not sure how he fits into the theory.

Don't mean to come off like a wet blanket, but can't really agree with your position.

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08-25-2012, 06:41 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by Kirk- NEHJ View Post
Your premise is based almost entirely on the benefit of hindsight- at least as far as 2003, 2006 years go.

Hate to disagree, but I covered those drafts and Bergeron, Lucic were not universally hailed as you describe them. The term "arguably" is so vague and nebulous, but I can tell you that even though scouts recognized upside in both players, neither pick was greeted with much fanfare and at the least, they weren't hailed at or near the top of their class for the traits you describe.

The other guys-- well, we're still way to early in the process to say for sure. Seguin was a no-brainer at 2-- clearly the best player on the board, so not sure how he fits into the theory.

Don't mean to come off like a wet blanket, but can't really agree with your position.
No problem Kirk, I have always respected your info on scouting and prospects. You have forgotten more than I will ever know. I just thought that it was interesting nonetheless that when looking at these drafts by position, skillset, the Bruins have done really well. Who knows maybe Caron will wind up being the best power forward of the 2009 draft.

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08-25-2012, 08:34 PM
  #460
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Saw this article/ blog on the main boards thought it was pretty good. It's about an interesting Bruins prospect to watch.(Camper)


http://thepipelineshow.blogspot.ca/2...on-bruins.html
Camper is taller than Desharnais.

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08-26-2012, 08:45 AM
  #461
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congrats to Knight, Spooner, and Hamilton for being considered three of the top 30 prospects ready for the NHL this season. Love it when this stuff comes from industry folks

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08-26-2012, 10:16 AM
  #462
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congrats to Knight, Spooner, and Hamilton for being considered three of the top 30 prospects ready for the NHL this season. Love it when this stuff comes from industry folks
Link to article?

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08-26-2012, 10:13 PM
  #463
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Link to article?
I assume he's talking about this, the 30 players invited to rookie showcase by the NHLPA: http://www.nhlpa.com/news/headlines/...-nhl-prospects

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08-28-2012, 04:26 PM
  #464
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beautiful flow


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08-28-2012, 05:03 PM
  #465
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beautiful flow

Is Knight doing Magnum, Blue Steel or Le Tigre?

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08-28-2012, 05:15 PM
  #466
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I don't know where to post this, but I just saw Malcolm Subban on TSN training with some NHL playets like Cammy, Seguin, P.K, Weiss and many more. TSN didn't say that it was with Gary Roberts, but I'm pretty sure it is.

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08-28-2012, 05:18 PM
  #467
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I don't know where to post this, but I just saw Malcolm Subban on TSN training with some NHL playets like Cammy, Seguin, P.K, Weiss and many more. TSN didn't say that it was with Gary Roberts, but I'm pretty sure it is.
I am 99% sure Segs is so if you saw Subban with Segs, safe bet it's with Robert's

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08-28-2012, 05:53 PM
  #468
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beautiful flow

Spooner even looks kind of like a young Saavy.

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08-28-2012, 08:24 PM
  #469
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08-28-2012, 10:28 PM
  #470
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beautiful flow

Haha, Knight looks so tiny. Smaller than Spooner!

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08-29-2012, 04:59 PM
  #471
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Jared Knight has taken up boxing and dropped Twitter as he is preparing for his rookie season in the Bruins organization.


Knight has taken up boxing lessons for the first time in his career, perhaps knowing that hell be expected to scrap a little bit more in professional hockey. But the workouts also serve as a rare physical/cardio workout that can simulate some of what happens on the ice. The Bs prospect laughed if he was ready to spar with Shawn Thornton once he makes it to Boston in September, but said the workouts have benefited him.

Knight has decommissioned his twitter account (@JKnight97) after he got a little too attached to it over the last couple of years. Its one less thing to worry about as he puts all of his focus into the game of hockey, and winning himself an actual job after building up a resume as one of Bostons top prospects over the last three seasons.

I might get back into it because a lot of the other guys are into the loop on it, but I was spending way too much time on there. I thought Id give it a break and focus on training rather than how many followers I had, said Knight.


Full article: http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-b...1&feedID=10428

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08-29-2012, 05:20 PM
  #472
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Jared Knight has taken up boxing and dropped Twitter as he is preparing for his rookie season in the Bruins organization.


Knight has taken up boxing lessons for the first time in his career, perhaps knowing that hell be expected to scrap a little bit more in professional hockey. But the workouts also serve as a rare physical/cardio workout that can simulate some of what happens on the ice. The Bs prospect laughed if he was ready to spar with Shawn Thornton once he makes it to Boston in September, but said the workouts have benefited him.

Knight has decommissioned his twitter account (@JKnight97) after he got a little too attached to it over the last couple of years. Its one less thing to worry about as he puts all of his focus into the game of hockey, and winning himself an actual job after building up a resume as one of Bostons top prospects over the last three seasons.

I might get back into it because a lot of the other guys are into the loop on it, but I was spending way too much time on there. I thought Id give it a break and focus on training rather than how many followers I had, said Knight.


Full article: http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-b...1&feedID=10428

Sounds like a remarkably mature kid. Looking forward to seeing him in the spoked B (or P)

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08-29-2012, 06:29 PM
  #473
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Haha, Knight looks so tiny. Smaller than Spooner!
Spooner at 5'11 215 lbs will do it. nice call- although if Knight had his hair sticking straight up and puffed out his chest he might have gotten Ryan

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08-29-2012, 06:34 PM
  #474
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Sounds like a remarkably mature kid. Looking forward to seeing him in the spoked B (or P)
there is workout boxing and there is real boxing- Knight wont admit it but he's doing the latter (I can tell you it is not fun getting hit and hit hard by someone who is very good at this and has been doing this for years as opposed to a glorified exercise program with a strong boxing theme even if taking place in a boxing gym)

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08-29-2012, 07:10 PM
  #475
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there is workout boxing and there is real boxing- Knight wont admit it but he's doing the latter (I can tell you it is not fun getting hit and hit hard by someone who is very good at this and has been doing this for years as opposed to a glorified exercise program with a strong boxing theme even if taking place in a boxing gym)
I'm all for the kid taking on challenges, but were there any concerns about that type of training after his upper body injury?

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