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Who wants to buy some Handguns? (Off-Season Speculation Part III)

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05-29-2012, 04:23 PM
  #726
Falco5
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
Hey guys i was wondering for speculation purposes whether thornton or pavelski has a chance of being moved this summer. Either one of these guys would be the first line center the panthers will be looking for this off season.
Thorton isn't going anywhere and Pavelski hopefully won't be going anywhere unless you are shopping Huberdeau/Gudbranson. Sorry, you will have to look elsewhere.

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05-29-2012, 04:37 PM
  #727
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Thorton isn't going anywhere and Pavelski hopefully won't be going anywhere unless you are shopping Huberdeau/Gudbranson. Sorry, you will have to look elsewhere.
It's laughable that you even mention Huberdeau in that sentence, but besides that I much prefer Kulikov to Gudbranson.

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05-29-2012, 04:48 PM
  #728
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Yah I was wondering about that myself, where did the Burns thing come from? He should be totally untouchable.

I'd rather have Parise AND Havlat preferably



We have plenty of cap space, plus the summer cap is higher as well. I'm kind of disturbed that they won't move Clowe, that is just stupid. Mainly, because if you do not move Clowe (or Marleau) you basically have to move either Havlat or Pavelski. Both mistakes imo. Clowe is not as skilled, too slow, and will likely be overpaid on his next contract. I also worry about his long term health.
I think Clowe will be moved. It just makes sense given his inconsistent play, his salary, and his overall skillset.

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05-29-2012, 04:51 PM
  #729
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What do you mean by odd men out? In the room? On the ice? Disagreement with the coach? Not fitting into the coach's schemes? I don't know if you can explain it further, but I thought maybe he elaborated on how they were the odd men out.
Just don't fit into the team's long-term plans. It could be everything to do with the makeup of the team, or everything to do with lockeroom/coach issues.

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05-29-2012, 04:53 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
It's laughable that you even mention Huberdeau in that sentence, but besides that I much prefer Kulikov to Gudbranson.
As laughable as JT in a panthers uniform next year? (I probably should have added a few to make it more obvious)

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05-29-2012, 04:59 PM
  #731
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As laughable as JT in a panthers uniform next year? (I probably should have added a few to make it more obvious)
Equally laughable, in my mind. Huberdeau goes nowhere and JT wouldn't waive for Florida (unless he really wants to pick surfing back up ).

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05-29-2012, 05:00 PM
  #732
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If Havlat is truly the "odd man out", I am going to guess that it will have been personality issues. While I love his on-ice product, I've been skeptical of his ability to mesh in the lockerroom. For all Heater's shortcomings, he was pretty well-liked in the room. Havlat is quiet and unsociable. It was a big red flag (for me) when Burnzie wasn't really connected with him, like Seto and Heater for Minnesota.
I think that is reading way too much into it. Huskins was a super-quiet guy, yet he got along fine with everyone.

Quote:
On Suter, I think "inquire" is a bit weaker verb than "pursue". Obviously the team will talk to both Parise and Suter, but I wouldn't be surprised if the org thought they had a real chance with Suter. We fit all of his supposed criteria (Not a crazy hockey market, Western Conference, American) as well as some personal criteria (he'd be the top-dog, especially if Boyle's gone, SJ is a great place to raise a family and settle down, Burns is a Weber-lite partner)
With Suter, I think they hope to sign him so that the defense is set up for the next ten years with Burns, Suter, and a re-signed Vlasic as your 1-2-3 punch. Free agents like Martin or Stuart can round out the top-4, with players like Braun, Demers, Doherty, Petrecki, Abeltshauser and your odd veteran signing taking spots 4-7 in the long-term.

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05-29-2012, 05:12 PM
  #733
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I also can't see Handzus being bought out. The org has never to my recollection done that with a player.

Havlat being the odd-man out was news to me too, mostly because I don't think he has that much values, especially since he suffered that injury. It would be a sell-low move; however if DW doesn't think he is a fit, then he isn't a fit and that is that.

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05-29-2012, 05:23 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
I think that is reading way too much into it. Huskins was a super-quiet guy, yet he got along fine with everyone.
Quiet and unsociable are two different things. Obviously I'm just speculating because I know nothing, but remembering that great Quick Quiz with Heater and Joe answering every question with "Kent Huskins" and Demers mentioning him a fair bit, I don't get the sense that he was a loner like I get with Marty.

I'm sure I'm reading into it far to much though, you're right.

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With Suter, I think they hope to sign him so that the defense is set up for the next ten years with Burns, Suter, and a re-signed Vlasic as your 1-2-3 punch. Free agents like Martin or Stuart can round out the top-4, with players like Braun, Demers, Doherty, Petrecki, Abeltshauser and your odd veteran signing taking spots 4-7 in the long-term.
Suter (27)-Burns (27)
Vlasic (25)-Demers (23, I hold out lots of hope he can return to '10-'11 form)
UFA (Stuart?)-Braun/Acolatse/Abeltshauser/etc.

Sounds great long-term.

The only problem is that I feel horrible even thinking about trading Boyle. My head says it's a good idea, but my heart rejects the idea. He wants to win so badly and he's such a competitor, I'd hate to see him go even if it meant signing Suter.

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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
I also can't see Handzus being bought out. The org has never to my recollection done that with a player.

Havlat being the odd-man out was news to me too, mostly because I don't think he has that much values, especially since he suffered that injury. It would be a sell-low move; however if DW doesn't think he is a fit, then he isn't a fit and that is that.
Maybe Handzus will retire? He'd have been 34 when his contract was signed, so it's not a 35+ so if he retired, his cap hit would disappear, right?

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05-29-2012, 05:24 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
I also can't see Handzus being bought out. The org has never to my recollection done that with a player.

Havlat being the odd-man out was news to me too, mostly because I don't think he has that much values, especially since he suffered that injury. It would be a sell-low move; however if DW doesn't think he is a fit, then he isn't a fit and that is that.
The closest they came was burying McLaren. They might buy him out, but I won't be surprised if they don't. Would he rather play? Because if they tell him they will buy him out if they don't let them trade him he might waive it.

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05-29-2012, 05:25 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
I also can't see Handzus being bought out. The org has never to my recollection done that with a player.

Havlat being the odd-man out was news to me too, mostly because I don't think he has that much values, especially since he suffered that injury. It would be a sell-low move; however if DW doesn't think he is a fit, then he isn't a fit and that is that.
Slightly unique situation though. I doubt his NTC is windowless though (so maybe the this is totally void for all we know, based on his terrible season), but if it is then they have a $2.5M player that they can't waive, can't ice, and don't want. He played so poorly (and never improved) that you literally wouldn't even want him on the 4th line (and we already have a better 4th line center). They likely will not spend to the cap anyway, so the buy out cap hit for two seasons is a minimal risk.

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05-29-2012, 05:41 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
The closest they came was burying McLaren. They might buy him out, but I won't be surprised if they don't. Would he rather play? Because if they tell him they will buy him out if they don't let them trade him he might waive it.
Smart thing would then be to accept the buyout and then try and sign with another team. If there is a team willing to take him at 2.5, there will be a team willing to take him at 1.

I think Handzus would waive if asked. Players don't like being where they aren't wanted.

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05-29-2012, 05:47 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Just don't fit into the team's long-term plans. It could be everything to do with the makeup of the team, or everything to do with lockeroom/coach issues.
Wait, lemme get this straight, two of the faster skaters on the team are the odd men out.

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05-29-2012, 05:50 PM
  #739
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Wait, lemme get this straight, two of the faster skaters on the team are the odd men out.

Not only that, but two guys who have been historically good playoff performers.

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05-29-2012, 05:54 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by hohosaregood View Post
Wait, lemme get this straight, two of the faster skaters on the team are the odd men out.
Boyle isn't fast, he is nifty/agile. He loses lots of races, but is very elusive with the puck. Havlat is fast AND agile.

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05-29-2012, 06:18 PM
  #741
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Boyle isn't fast, he is nifty/agile. He loses lots of races, but is very elusive with the puck. Havlat is fast AND agile.
Boyle is fast; come on. For a defenseman? He loses races because he is not as quick to deliberate on the defensive side. When he carries the puck up the ice, he has speed.

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05-29-2012, 06:20 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by hohosaregood View Post
Wait, lemme get this straight, two of the faster skaters on the team are the odd men out.
Tkachuk's point about the playoff performance is more compelling. However, we might care about speed since we see it as proven a way to win. If one sees it as uneccesary, or one wants to build the team with possession play only, speed becomes a less useful asset.

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05-29-2012, 06:37 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Boyle is fast; come on. For a defenseman? He loses races because he is not as quick to deliberate on the defensive side. When he carries the puck up the ice, he has speed.
No he isn't. I don't gauge speed unless both players are going in the same direction at the outset. It isn't his delays, it is when both players are going flat out and it isn't the burners to whom he is losing (I wouldn't count it if it was Grabner). He won't get beat by someone like Clowe, but he would be at risk against guys like Brown.

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05-29-2012, 08:06 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
If Havlat is truly the "odd man out", I am going to guess that it will have been personality issues. While I love his on-ice product, I've been skeptical of his ability to mesh in the lockerroom. For all Heater's shortcomings, he was pretty well-liked in the room. Havlat is quiet and unsociable. It was a big red flag (for me) when Burnzie wasn't really connected with him, like Seto and Heater for Minnesota.

On Suter, I think "inquire" is a bit weaker verb than "pursue". Obviously the team will talk to both Parise and Suter, but I wouldn't be surprised if the org thought they had a real chance with Suter. We fit all of his supposed criteria (Not a crazy hockey market, Western Conference, American) as well as some personal criteria (he'd be the top-dog, especially if Boyle's gone, SJ is a great place to raise a family and settle down, Burns is a Weber-lite partner)

I don't want to trade Demers at all unless it's in a package for a young winger like JVR, etc. Demers' value will be low right now, but he's so much more talented than he performed last season. Unless we're getting a real upgrade back, it would be a giant mistake to trade Demers right now. And Nieto is literally the only scoring prospect we have. So no, it doesn't shock me, but I'm disappointed.
It's possible but even with potential personality issues, I just don't see Doug Wilson giving up on a guy that he spent basically his entire tenure as GM trying to acquire with the kind of season he had. The team's numbers with him in the lineup speak for themselves. They were 25-11-3 with him in the lineup during the season.

With Suter, it's possible. You have to find out, that's for sure. I'm not getting my hopes up but if he wants to sign here, DW can't lowball him.

I agree with regards to Demers. Personally, I think the guy to trade is Justin Braun. His value should be high but his potential is still less than Demers, I feel. But that's if they need to open a spot on the right side w/o having to move Boyle. There is going to be a lot of moving parts this off-season. We're overloaded on the right side and we lack puck moving ability on the left side and we also need depth, youth, and speed up front. The only guy I see as no doubt unavailable is Brent Burns. Everyone else should be bait or could have something that forces the team's hands.

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05-29-2012, 08:31 PM
  #745
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
It's possible but even with potential personality issues, I just don't see Doug Wilson giving up on a guy that he spent basically his entire tenure as GM trying to acquire with the kind of season he had. The team's numbers with him in the lineup speak for themselves. They were 25-11-3 with him in the lineup during the season.

With Suter, it's possible. You have to find out, that's for sure. I'm not getting my hopes up but if he wants to sign here, DW can't lowball him.

I agree with regards to Demers. Personally, I think the guy to trade is Justin Braun. His value should be high but his potential is still less than Demers, I feel. But that's if they need to open a spot on the right side w/o having to move Boyle. There is going to be a lot of moving parts this off-season. We're overloaded on the right side and we lack puck moving ability on the left side and we also need depth, youth, and speed up front. The only guy I see as no doubt unavailable is Brent Burns. Everyone else should be bait or could have something that forces the team's hands.
I assume you meant on defense, but just in case, I see Couture as totally untouchable as well. That's really it sadly, Couture and Burns heh.

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05-29-2012, 08:32 PM
  #746
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Trading Havlat would be idiotic. He's fast and the only player who can even play a transition game with Marleau like Marleau needs.

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05-29-2012, 08:40 PM
  #747
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It's possible but even with potential personality issues, I just don't see Doug Wilson giving up on a guy that he spent basically his entire tenure as GM trying to acquire with the kind of season he had. The team's numbers with him in the lineup speak for themselves. They were 25-11-3 with him in the lineup during the season.

With Suter, it's possible. You have to find out, that's for sure. I'm not getting my hopes up but if he wants to sign here, DW can't lowball him.

I agree with regards to Demers. Personally, I think the guy to trade is Justin Braun. His value should be high but his potential is still less than Demers, I feel. But that's if they need to open a spot on the right side w/o having to move Boyle. There is going to be a lot of moving parts this off-season. We're overloaded on the right side and we lack puck moving ability on the left side and we also need depth, youth, and speed up front. The only guy I see as no doubt unavailable is Brent Burns. Everyone else should be bait or could have something that forces the team's hands.
I can't imagine DW flipping Havlat after only one season either. That's Sry10's grain of salt, I suppose.

I'm not getting my hopes up, but I'm also not ruling it out. It's both nice to see Oduya get almost $3.5M from Chicago, and also sad. Good, because they'll end up with an overpaid 5/6 like Ericsson in Detroit, but bad because that drives Suter's price up more. If DW is serious about going after Suter, he won't be low-balling him. We gave very serious offers to Chara.

I agree about Braun. While Braun is the better player at the moment, he's also older and has less upside. I think he's a safe bet to be a #4/5 TWD, but I think Demers could be a #3.

I agree on Burns. I think he's the only pure untouchable on this team for me. Even Couture, I could see dealt for the right return (although I highly, highly doubt it, and DW is high on the kid).

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05-29-2012, 08:44 PM
  #748
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If boyle is gone, so am I.

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05-29-2012, 08:50 PM
  #749
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If boyle is gone, so am I.
What if Niemi is gone? Would that bring you back?

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05-29-2012, 08:53 PM
  #750
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The guys that are unavailable in my opinion are Thornton, Havlat, Couture, Pavelski, Burns and Vlasic. Possibly the best Shark on the ice during the playoffs was Winnik so I really hope he gets re-signed. He's an important piece to the penalty kill and an excellent 3rd-4th liner. I know some people aren't high on Doug Murray, but he's a guy I wouldn't put on the unavailable list but hope he's a Shark next season.

I'm as big of Marleau fan as anybody but feel it's time to move on. His cap hit is too significant and he might still have perceived value with his scoring ability. Maybe the Oilers have interest? Or the Jets definitely need a top line Centre. I guess we'll find out what will happen this off-season.

Maybe not everybody agrees on this one, but I really think letting Kyle Wellwood go was DW's worst move in a while.

He could've been such an effective piece to San Jose's 3rd line. The guy signed for under $1M in Winnipeg and was a great piece to the team no matter which line he played (he played on all 4 lines). He had a good playoff with San Jose last year. I know some people knock his work ethic and say he's out of shape, but he's a guy that always brings the best out of his linemates and can easily score 40+ points.

The guy I'm hoping San Jose goes after is Chris Stewart. I truly think he just doesn't fit Hitchcock's system and needs a fresh start. He was scoring a point per game last year after he was traded to StL. And played well for Colorado the previous year in the playoffs. Given San Jose's inability to score, I think Stewart is worth the risk and a great start to what San Jose's off season plans should be.

And say no to Nash!!!

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