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05-30-2012, 02:39 PM
  #1
trentmccleary
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12 Key Building Blocks

I just finished giving the Habs & Leafs fans crap for debating depth players in a 500 post thread. But what about us? Who are the significant players/prospects in the organization now who are going to help us win the most games over the next 3-5 years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
I find that these comparisons get overly convoluted and wind up spending too much time debating players who'll have little to no effect on the fortunes of the teams involved.

Perhaps you guys should try a disciplined approach of capping the comparison at a dozen players/prospects who will help you win the most games over the next 3-5 years.

Maybe select 7-9 NHL'ers and 3-5 prospects who will be key to your team winning games in the near future. Try to ignore the depth players, bottom pairing D-men and back-up goalies.

... But what if our future will be greatly affected by our 6th & 7th best prospects? Can we list them?

If your future hinges on your 6th & 7th best prospects, your team sucks and has no future. Please stick to the realm of reality and don't assume that all of your prospects are future stars!

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:45 PM
  #2
Rhino Reilly
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NHLers id say:

Karlsson
Spezza
Cowen
Bishop
Michalek
Greening
Turris

Prospects:
Zbad
Noesen
Silfverberg

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05-30-2012, 02:48 PM
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CanadianHockey
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NHLers:
Jason Spezza
Erik Karlsson
Kyle Turris
Jared Cowen
Craig Anderson
Milan Michalek
Nick Foligno
Chris Neil
Zack Smith (?)

Prospects:
Jakob Silfverberg
Mika Zibanejad
Robin Lehner

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Last edited by CanadianHockey: 05-30-2012 at 04:32 PM.
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05-30-2012, 02:49 PM
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Saabman0508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IloveChrisNeil View Post
NHLers id say:

Karlsson
Spezza
Cowen
Bishop
Michalek
Greening
Turris

Prospects:
Zbad
Noesen
Silfverberg
I mostly agree. Add foligno/ take out greening, add lehner/ take out bishop. That would be my list.

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05-30-2012, 02:51 PM
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Spezza
Karlsson
Lehner
Cowen
Turris
Zibanejad
Michalek
Foligno
Noesen
Silfverberg
Stone
Wiercioch

HM: Zack Smith and SDC

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:51 PM
  #6
Rhino Reilly
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I just have a feeling Lehner is going to be traded sooner or later. I don't want him to be but its a gut feeling.

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05-30-2012, 02:54 PM
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Saabman0508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IloveChrisNeil View Post
I just have a feeling Lehner is going to be traded sooner or later. I don't want him to be but its a gut feeling.
Different guts, different feelings I guess.

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:56 PM
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Ice-Tray
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KEY NHL'ers for success

Spezza - franchise centre
Karlsson - franchise dman
Turris - second line centre
Cowen - #2 dman
Michalek - top 6 scoring winger
Anderson - #1 goalie
Neil - bottom 6 punishment and spirit
Foligno - bottom 6 agitator/ secondary scoring

Key Prospects for success

Silverberg - potential top 6 scoring winger
Lehner - potetial franchise goalie
Noesen - potential rugged winger
Stone - potential power forward
ZBad - potential top 6 2-way winger


Last edited by Ice-Tray: 05-30-2012 at 03:21 PM. Reason: dumb
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Old
05-30-2012, 03:10 PM
  #9
Tuna99
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Karlsson
Cowan
Turris
Greening

Prospects
Lehner
Stone
Silferberg
Noessen
Zibby
Boroweicki
Prince
2012 #1 Draft pick

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Old
05-30-2012, 03:17 PM
  #10
Ice-Tray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
Karlsson
Cowan
Turris
Greening

Prospects
Lehner
Stone
Silferberg
Noessen
Zibby
Boroweicki
Prince
2012 #1 Draft pick
So Spezza is NOT a key building block for this franchise is what you're saying?

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Old
05-30-2012, 03:18 PM
  #11
CanadianHockey
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Who's this Cowan guy? Is he any good? When did we sign him?

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05-30-2012, 03:20 PM
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Ice-Tray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
Who's this Cowan guy? Is he any good? When did we sign him?
I always forget which it is... Too much pot as a kid...

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05-30-2012, 03:29 PM
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trentmccleary
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The more I try this, the harder it seems.

Spezza, Karlsson, Michalek are the no-brainers.
4) Foligno - seems a good bet to be here the next 5 years and a noticeable all-round impact.
5) Anderson - Even if it's only 3 years, he looks like he'll have a big impact on our fortunes.
6) Turris should also be here for 5 years and contribute some secondary scoring.
7) Cowen - hopefully the top shutdown D-man we'll need.
8) Z.Smith - I choose his physicality and youth over Greening & Neil. I'm hoping he picks up on how Neil creates energy to tailor his own game.

Zibanejad - our best prospect should be capable of providing an all-round impact.
Lehner - shown flashes of greatness, but needs to harness it into some sort of consistency.
Noesen - all-round play virtually guarentees ice time, I'm excited to see what he'll do with it when he gets the chance.
Silfverberg - obviously our most NHL ready prospect, looked a little overwhelmed physically in the postseason.

I'm kind of disappointed that we have so few D-men to point towards.

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Old
05-30-2012, 03:37 PM
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I hope they dont trade Lehner. I still honestly feel he is just as good as Bishop, if not better. Bishop just has the maturity right now.
I think with a few teams in the league looking for young goaltending, Bishop has very good value for a return, being the "best AHL goalie not playing in the NHL etc etc" tag Bishop has earned.

Lehner needs to be up with the big club and learn how NHL'ers go about business. Even if he is only going to play 20-25 games. He needs the promotion.

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05-30-2012, 04:02 PM
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Lenny the Lynx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbkhockey29 View Post
I hope they dont trade Lehner. I still honestly feel he is just as good as Bishop, if not better. Bishop just has the maturity right now.
I think with a few teams in the league looking for young goaltending, Bishop has very good value for a return, being the "best AHL goalie not playing in the NHL etc etc" tag Bishop has earned.

Lehner needs to be up with the big club and learn how NHL'ers go about business. Even if he is only going to play 20-25 games. He needs the promotion.
Do you think Bishop's value has increased since he was acquired? He did play well and he's signed now so maybe, but his value could be pretty well the same as the 2nd rounder we got for him. I wouldn't trade him for that.

I think they need to follow through with the plan - Anderson starts, Bishop backup. Lehner starts in Bingo, gets tons of time and hopefully gets into a groove.

And it's a long season - Anderson might try and make chicken fajitas and put himself out for a few months. And Bishop is really tall, he might hit his head on something and have to miss a few games.

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05-30-2012, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice-Tray View Post
So Spezza is NOT a key building block for this franchise is what you're saying?
In 5 years maybe not, he's only signed to 2 more years after this one.

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05-30-2012, 04:33 PM
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CanadianHockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
In 5 years maybe not, he's only signed to 2 more years after this one.
You don't think Spezza will be a key piece for, at the very least, those three years?

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05-30-2012, 04:37 PM
  #18
trentmccleary
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Do you think Bishop's value has increased since he was acquired? He did play well and he's signed now so maybe, but his value could be pretty well the same as the 2nd rounder we got for him. I wouldn't trade him for that.

I think they need to follow through with the plan - Anderson starts, Bishop backup. Lehner starts in Bingo, gets tons of time and hopefully gets into a groove.

And it's a long season - Anderson might try and make chicken fajitas and put himself out for a few months. And Bishop is really tall, he might hit his head on something and have to miss a few games.
Going into Kipprusoff's first season as back-up in San Jose years ago;
Nabokov was the 26yo starter
Kipprusoff the 24 yo back-up
Toskala the 24yo, highly regarded 3rd stringer in the AHL.

That's a crowded house and even then, they gave Kiprusoff 2 full years as a back-up and Toskala 3 full years as a back-up.

Anderson is 31yo now, Bishop is 25yo and Lehner is 20yo.
There's no crowding going on here; there's a clear succession plan if everything works out as planned. We don't need to make a deal to clear anybody out because of crowding.

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Old
05-30-2012, 04:42 PM
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CanadianHockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Going into Kipprusoff's first season as back-up in San Jose years ago;
Nabokov was the 26yo starter
Kipprusoff the 24 yo back-up
Toskala the 24yo, highly regarded 3rd stringer in the AHL.

That's a crowded house and even then, they gave Kiprusoff 2 full years as a back-up and Toskala 3 full years as a back-up.

Anderson is 31yo now, Bishop is 25yo and Lehner is 20yo.
There's no crowding going on here; there's a clear succession plan if everything works out as planned. We don't need to make a deal to clear anybody out because of crowding.
Pretty much this. Even if you just look at Andy's deal, you'll see it's set up to transition Lehner to the NHL. We need all of these guys.

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05-30-2012, 04:54 PM
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Lenny the Lynx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Going into Kipprusoff's first season as back-up in San Jose years ago;
Nabokov was the 26yo starter
Kipprusoff the 24 yo back-up
Toskala the 24yo, highly regarded 3rd stringer in the AHL.

That's a crowded house and even then, they gave Kiprusoff 2 full years as a back-up and Toskala 3 full years as a back-up.

Anderson is 31yo now, Bishop is 25yo and Lehner is 20yo.
There's no crowding going on here; there's a clear succession plan if everything works out as planned. We don't need to make a deal to clear anybody out because of crowding.
Yeah exactly what I was thinking.

We now have two solid prospects. Maybe they both pan out, maybe they both hit a ceiling and never amount to much, maybe something in between. It's the best goaltending depth this organization has ever had, by a long shot. No reason to do anything just yet.

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05-30-2012, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
The more I try this, the harder it seems.

Spezza, Karlsson, Michalek are the no-brainers.
4) Foligno - seems a good bet to be here the next 5 years and a noticeable all-round impact.
5) Anderson - Even if it's only 3 years, he looks like he'll have a big impact on our fortunes.
6) Turris should also be here for 5 years and contribute some secondary scoring.
7) Cowen - hopefully the top shutdown D-man we'll need.
8) Z.Smith - I choose his physicality and youth over Greening & Neil. I'm hoping he picks up on how Neil creates energy to tailor his own game.

Zibanejad - our best prospect should be capable of providing an all-round impact.
Lehner - shown flashes of greatness, but needs to harness it into some sort of consistency.
Noesen - all-round play virtually guarentees ice time, I'm excited to see what he'll do with it when he gets the chance.
Silfverberg - obviously our most NHL ready prospect, looked a little overwhelmed physically in the postseason.

I'm kind of disappointed that we have so few D-men to point towards.
I think you nailed it, trent.

Zack Smith is the biggest question mark for me. But realistically Chris Neil is already 33, and while still a great role player and mentor, is too old to be considered a building block. Smith seems like the natural protege for him.

Not surprising that we are short on D in this exercise, considering we had 4 30something D this year and the prospects we have are not high-end.

Still, I like every one of the players you named and I feel good that with competent management, transitions can be made and weaknesses can be addressed based on the assets we have.

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05-30-2012, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice-Tray View Post
Foligno - bottom 6 agitator/ secondary scoring
Foligno is a top 6 forward. He would be a top 6 forward on 28 teams in the league (only Philadelphia and Pittsburgh had 6 forwards that outscored Foligno)

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05-30-2012, 06:31 PM
  #23
tony d
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1) Spezza
2) Karlsson
3) Anderson
4) Turris
5) Cowen
6) Michaelk
7) Foligno
8) Z.Smith
9) Zibanejad
10) Lehner
11) Silfvberg
12) Noesen

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05-30-2012, 07:09 PM
  #24
guyzeur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
The more I try this, the harder it seems.

Spezza, Karlsson, Michalek are the no-brainers.
4) Foligno - seems a good bet to be here the next 5 years and a noticeable all-round impact.
5) Anderson - Even if it's only 3 years, he looks like he'll have a big impact on our fortunes.
6) Turris should also be here for 5 years and contribute some secondary scoring.
7) Cowen - hopefully the top shutdown D-man we'll need.
8) Z.Smith - I choose his physicality and youth over Greening & Neil. I'm hoping he picks up on how Neil creates energy to tailor his own game.

Zibanejad - our best prospect should be capable of providing an all-round impact.
Lehner - shown flashes of greatness, but needs to harness it into some sort of consistency.
Noesen - all-round play virtually guarentees ice time, I'm excited to see what he'll do with it when he gets the chance.
Silfverberg - obviously our most NHL ready prospect, looked a little overwhelmed physically in the postseason.

I'm kind of disappointed that we have so few D-men to point towards.
That's my list as well, not sure you meant 4-8 in this order but i would put Turris and Anderson 4 and 5, Cowen 6 and Foligno 7

I am hoping that the D prospect will come out of this draft; we only need two more D prospects really.

We most likely looking for 2nd pairing since Cowen and EK should be number 2 and 1. Hopefully we can acquire 1 of the 2nd pairing through trade or UFA.

A signed Kuba can help the transition for those D prospects.

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Old
05-30-2012, 07:10 PM
  #25
ReginKarlssonLehner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
1) Spezza
2) Karlsson
3) Anderson
4) Turris
5) Cowen
6) Michaelk
7) Foligno
8) Z.Smith
9) Zibanejad
10) Lehner
11) Silfvberg
12) Noesen
Perfecto.

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