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Roberto Luongo II

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05-16-2012, 12:00 PM
  #26
Liferleafer
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Pretty much what Liferleafer and I have pitched around. That is more a quiet deal both teams walk away content making. I'd prefer a conditional first, as previously mentioned, and would be willing to take Lombardi to acquire it, if only because he would help be a stopgap while Kesler recovers. We then wave him unless he pans out on the third line. I know a lot of Nuck fans are weary of Schenn's inconsistency but he brings a dynamic we sorely lack; physicality on the back end. In fact, we lack in on the forward side but that is another matter. Schenn would relieve pressure on Edler to do everything, as he is often prone to attempt. While it's definitely a gamble, I am willing to risk it.
If the condition is playoffs...maybe. I would prefer the condition be based on Luongo's performance (ie:wins), if he were to get hurt (worst case scenario) and we still made the post season using Reimer/?...that 1st would really sting.

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05-16-2012, 12:11 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I have a feeling we could see something like Joe Colborne, Luke Schenn, and a 2nd round pick for Luongo. I wouldn't be all that thrilled with it, but it's a lot better than some crap I've seen suggested.
Yup...kinda middle of the road. To the left we have Komi and a 3rd, to the right we have 5th OAP and Gardiner. This is a deal i think most Leaf fans can live with, doesn't destroy the youth movement and we have depth at D, while solving the goalie issue. I still don't like the term, but this deal takes some of the sting out of it.

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05-16-2012, 12:11 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I have a feeling we could see something like Joe Colborne, Luke Schenn, and a 2nd round pick for Luongo. I wouldn't be all that thrilled with it, but it's a lot better than some crap I've seen suggested.
I would be ok with it..

Shenn + 2nd

is the base of any deal that I would agree with.. obviously have to add a prospect.

I like Colborne and wouldn't like to see him going but in this type of deal to get Luongo you do have to give to get so Shenn, Colborne, 35th overall would be a good deal for both sides IMO

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05-16-2012, 12:15 PM
  #29
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I can sign off on the deal. Not too thrilled about it due to Schenn's inconsistency but he might do better in the Canucks system when defense-men are encouraged to pinch and join the rush.

Personally, I would rather keep Luongo and trade Schneider for Gardiner

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05-16-2012, 12:19 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Vorkosh View Post
I can sign off on the deal. Not too thrilled about it due to Schenn's inconsistency but he might do better in the Canucks system when defense-men are encouraged to pinch and join the rush.

Personally, I would rather keep Luongo and trade Schneider for Gardiner
Burke won't do it. Gardiner and Kessel are the two untouchables.

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05-16-2012, 12:25 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by TorontoTrades View Post
Burke won't do it. Gardiner and Kessel are the two untouchables.
This...and while i believe Schnieder is the real deal, 68 games is a small sample size. Burke would probably prefer experience.

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05-16-2012, 12:50 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by TorontoTrades View Post
I would be ok with it..

Shenn + 2nd

is the base of any deal that I would agree with.. obviously have to add a prospect.

I like Colborne and wouldn't like to see him going but in this type of deal to get Luongo you do have to give to get so Shenn, Colborne, 35th overall would be a good deal for both sides IMO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorkosh View Post
I can sign off on the deal. Not too thrilled about it due to Schenn's inconsistency but he might do better in the Canucks system when defense-men are encouraged to pinch and join the rush.

Personally, I would rather keep Luongo and trade Schneider for Gardiner
The prospect would need to be substantially better than Colborne. i just dont see the upside, especially if Schenn is the centerpiece.

I cant see him ever being an NHL regular, especially in the top 6, and his butter soft game isn't suited to a bottom 6 role.

I still think my proposal from the other thread is the best.

Schenn + Ashton/Ross/Kadri + 2012 2nd + Conditional 2013 1st (becomes a 3rd if no playoffs).

I dont like Schenn much, don't want another 3rd pairing d-man making over $3.5m/yr, but the youth attained with it, would be palatable.

It is getting pretty boring to continually discuss a Luongo trade with the other biggest HF fanbase.

I think other teams will be in on Luongo more than most think....it just seems Leafs and Nucks fans are the only ones who care. LOL.

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05-16-2012, 01:00 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by TorontoTrades View Post
I would be ok with it..

Shenn + 2nd

is the base of any deal that I would agree with.. obviously have to add a prospect.

I like Colborne and wouldn't like to see him going but in this type of deal to get Luongo you do have to give to get so Shenn, Colborne, 35th overall would be a good deal for both sides IMO
With Vancouver already having a strong group of centers I don't have as much interest in Colborne as I do Ashton.

Schenn + Ashton + 2nd?

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05-16-2012, 01:06 PM
  #34
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Ashton gives them another prospect who is on par with Schroeder/Jensen (arguably would become their best prospect after Kassian).

Schenn gives them a future partner for Edler, and that 2nd pairing becomes impressive.

The 2nd rounder could possibly be packaged with Vans 1st to move up in the draft as well.

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05-16-2012, 01:36 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoTrades View Post
I would be ok with it..

Shenn + 2nd

is the base of any deal that I would agree with.. obviously have to add a prospect.

I like Colborne and wouldn't like to see him going but in this type of deal to get Luongo you do have to give to get so Shenn, Colborne, 35th overall would be a good deal for both sides IMO
Include Gunnarson and I would consider it.

Otherwise it's either Gardiner & Armstrong or 1st(5th)

Or maybe Colborne, Schenn & Gunnarson and we'll thow in one of Ballard, Schroeder, Raymond and maybe Tanev

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05-16-2012, 01:50 PM
  #36
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If Colborne, Schenn & a 2nd is all we can get for Luongo we should just trade Schneider.

I don't think there is a huge difference in their play but there is a huge difference in what they can bring in a trade.

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05-16-2012, 02:01 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Shane Churla View Post
Include Gunnarson and I would consider it.

Otherwise it's either Gardiner & Armstrong or 1st(5th)
Or maybe Colborne, Schenn & Gunnarson and we'll thow in one of Ballard, Schroeder, Raymond and maybe Tanev
Nope...and...nope.

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05-16-2012, 02:01 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by TheBeatles View Post
If Colborne, Schenn & a 2nd is all we can get for Luongo we should just trade Schneider.

I don't think there is a huge difference in their play but there is a huge difference in what they can bring in a trade.
I disagree, it's not the play of Luongo vs the play of Schneider that should be considered here.

It's the play of the team when Luongo is in net vs the play of the team when Schneider is in it.

Take game 1-2 against LA for example. Then take a look at how the team played in games 3-4-5.

There is a difference, you can argue that Sedin came back for games 4-5, but as a whole, the team seems a lot of more relaxed when playing infront of Schneider.

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05-16-2012, 02:05 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Vorkosh View Post
I disagree, it's not the play of Luongo vs the play of Schneider that should be considered here.

It's the play of the team when Luongo is in net vs the play of the team when Schneider is in it.

Take game 1-2 against LA for example. Then take a look at how the team played in games 3-4-5.

There is a difference, you can argue that Sedin came back for games 4-5, but as a whole, the team seems a lot of more relaxed when playing infront of Schneider.
I dont think it has anything to do with being more relaxed, I think it all has to do, with the Canucks knowing what they have in Luongo and taking it for granted.

By the way, Joe Colborne is a trash prospect. He doesn't carry much value IMO.

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05-16-2012, 02:07 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeatles View Post
If Colborne, Schenn & a 2nd is all we can get for Luongo we should just trade Schneider.

I don't think there is a huge difference in their play but there is a huge difference in what they can bring in a trade.
You gotta appreciate its a young top 4 RH dman with top pairing upside (something we need), an NHL ready 22 year old 1st round pick and a really high 2nd round pick.

I would say thats a pretty good return (although I want Ashton> Colborne)

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05-16-2012, 02:08 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorkosh View Post
I disagree, it's not the play of Luongo vs the play of Schneider that should be considered here.

It's the play of the team when Luongo is in net vs the play of the team when Schneider is in it.

Take game 1-2 against LA for example. Then take a look at how the team played in games 3-4-5.

There is a difference, you can argue that Sedin came back for games 4-5, but as a whole, the team seems a lot of more relaxed when playing infront of Schneider.
Not because i'm hunting for a cheap deal, but Schnieder is a keeper to build around/go forward with. Even if you sign him for 6 years (basically Luongo term), you will probably get him cheaper than you're paying Luongo now.

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05-16-2012, 02:09 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I dont think it has anything to do with being more relaxed, I think it all has to do, with the Canucks knowing what they have in Luongo and taking it for granted.

By the way, Joe Colborne is a trash prospect. He doesn't carry much value IMO.
I would say hes a fine prospect. Hes just as good, if not better than Schroeder/Jensen who are our top prospects...

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05-16-2012, 02:09 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by dangerousdan85 View Post
You gotta appreciate its a young top 4 RH dman with top pairing upside (something we need), an NHL ready 22 year old 1st round pick and a really high 2nd round pick.

I would say thats a pretty good return (although I want Ashton> Colborne)
Schenn played sheltered minutes last season, and was still terrible.

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05-16-2012, 02:10 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I dont think it has anything to do with being more relaxed, I think it all has to do, with the Canucks knowing what they have in Luongo and taking it for granted.

By the way, Joe Colborne is a trash prospect. He doesn't carry much value IMO.
You were doing good until here.

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05-16-2012, 02:19 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Schenn played sheltered minutes last season, and was still terrible.
And the season before that he was logging top pairing minutes, was 8th in hits, and 12th in blocked shots while facing tough competition.

Yes he had a poor season this year, but the same can be said about most of the players on that team.

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05-16-2012, 02:23 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by dangerousdan85 View Post
And the season before that he was logging top pairing minutes, was 8th in hits, and 12th in blocked shots while facing tough competition.

Yes he had a poor season this year, but the same can be said about most of the players on that team.
Yup...and there were 3 exact reasons why..coaching, coaching...and oh ya...coaching. Wilson's run and gun style killed the defensive game. Anyone who watched the Carlye system late in the year saw improvement.

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05-16-2012, 02:26 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by dangerousdan85 View Post
You gotta appreciate its a young top 4 RH dman with top pairing upside (something we need), an NHL ready 22 year old 1st round pick and a really high 2nd round pick.

I would say thats a pretty good return (although I want Ashton> Colborne)
We do need that but he is a player who doesn't fit the system our defense plays. He doesn't scream fast, puck moving D man. His skating is something that really worries me, ESPECIALLY if he was playing in the Canucks system.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Yup...and there were 3 exact reasons why..coaching, coaching...and oh ya...coaching. Wilson's run and gun style killed the defensive game. Anyone who watched the Carlye system late in the year saw improvement.
Sounds like a similar style the Canucks play. Does entice me hearing things like this.

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05-16-2012, 02:32 PM
  #48
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And the season before that he was logging top pairing minutes, was 8th in hits, and 12th in blocked shots while facing tough competition.
Most of Schenn's shot blocking and hitting comes as a result of chasing the play rather than being excellent at those things. He consistently ranks poorly in Corsi and Fenwick. Last season was fairly decent for him in terms of the type of opposition he faced and the results he got out of it, but the year prior to that was abysmal and this year saw a return to the same.

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Yes he had a poor season this year, but the same can be said about most of the players on that team.
Not really. He had the worst statistical year of all the Leafs defensemen despite playing the easiest minutes.

---

Schenn is a salary dump so if you want to put him in a deal, treat him like one. That is the only way we'll be taking on that behemoth of a contract for what amounts to a poor #6 defenseman.

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05-16-2012, 02:33 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by dangerousdan85 View Post
You gotta appreciate its a young top 4 RH dman with top pairing upside (something we need), an NHL ready 22 year old 1st round pick and a really high 2nd round pick.

I would say thats a pretty good return (although I want Ashton> Colborne)
He does not have top pairing upside IMO. He's got 2nd pairing upside.

Hits and blocked shots are not signs of top flight play IMO.

Who cares where he was selected, he's been surpassed by plenty of defensman taken after him.
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Yup...and there were 3 exact reasons why..coaching, coaching...and oh ya...coaching. Wilson's run and gun style killed the defensive game. Anyone who watched the Carlye system late in the year saw improvement.
The run and gun system doesn't change Schenn's ability to process whats happening on the ice. He is slow to process and slow to react...couple that with being a slow skater, and him being paid too much for a 3rd pairing defensman is enough for me to want to hold out for something better, especially if the rest of the package is as underwhelming as Colborne and a 2nd.
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I would say hes a fine prospect. Hes just as good, if not better than Schroeder/Jensen who are our top prospects...
Not a chance he's better than Jensen.

Schroeder is arguable at best IMO. The only thing Colborne has is size, I dont think much of him.

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05-16-2012, 02:33 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by TheBeatles View Post
We do need that but he is a player who doesn't fit the system our defense plays. He doesn't scream fast, puck moving D man. His skating is something that really worries me, ESPECIALLY if he was playing in the Canucks system.




Sounds like a similar style the Canucks play. Does entice me hearing things like this.
I admit, i don't get to watch alot of Nucks games, so if your coach deploys an offense only back check only if you feel like it throw the puck cross crease on the breakout system, then i agree.

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