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Roberto Luongo II

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Old
05-16-2012, 02:37 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by TheBeatles View Post
We do need that but he is a player who doesn't fit the system our defense plays. He doesn't scream fast, puck moving D man. His skating is something that really worries me, ESPECIALLY if he was playing in the Canucks system.

Sounds like a similar style the Canucks play. Does entice me hearing things like this.
Schenn's skating does worry me, but the Canucks definitely do not play a similar system that Ron Wilson employs. Not even close. AV use to emphasize defense first when the Canucks weren't as good as they were now. The biggest change he has made is activating the defense in the offensive zone

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05-16-2012, 02:38 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
He does not have top pairing upside IMO. He's got 2nd pairing upside.

Hits and blocked shots are not signs of top flight play IMO.

Who cares where he was selected, he's been surpassed by plenty of defensman taken after him.

The run and gun system doesn't change Schenn's ability to process whats happening on the ice. He is slow to process and slow to react...couple that with being a slow skater, and him being paid too much for a 3rd pairing defensman is enough for me to want to hold out for something better, especially if the rest of the package is as underwhelming as Colborne and a 2nd.


Not a chance he's better than Jensen.

Schroeder is arguable at best IMO. The only thing Colborne has is size, I dont think much of him.
Couple of points. Schenn is a slow skater, thats why the Leafs have hired a skating coach. The same one that worked with Tavares, so that should help. I understand if you want to "hold out", as i've stated, there will be teams interested. Not sure if the offers will be much better than this though.

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05-16-2012, 02:43 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I admit, i don't get to watch alot of Nucks games, so if your coach deploys an offense only back check only if you feel like it throw the puck cross crease on the breakout system, then i agree.
The Canucks offensive system is predicated on having the defensman pinch/jump into the rush...so they sort of require an ability to skate, the hockey IQ necessary to know when to do this, and the offensive skills to do something when you do it...at this stage Schenn would be comparable to guys like Aaron Rome and Andrew Alberts, who we are paying half what Schenn costs for both.

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05-16-2012, 02:44 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
The Canucks offensive system is predicated on having the defensman pinch/jump into the rush...so they sort of require an ability to skate, the hockey IQ necessary to know when to do this, and the offensive skills to do something when you do it...at this stage Schenn would be comparable to guys like Aaron Rome and Andrew Alberts, who we are paying half what Schenn costs for both.
Fair enough...i'm sure Tampa and the Hawks will fight over Luongo.

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05-16-2012, 02:45 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
The Canucks offensive system is predicated on having the defensman pinch/jump into the rush...so they sort of require an ability to skate, the hockey IQ necessary to know when to do this, and the offensive skills to do something when you do it...at this stage Schenn would be comparable to guys like Aaron Rome and Andrew Alberts, who we are paying half what Schenn costs for both.
Yeah our offense has always been run through the defence. We normally rank among the top teams in defensive scoring.

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05-16-2012, 02:46 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Couple of points. Schenn is a slow skater, thats why the Leafs have hired a skating coach. The same one that worked with Tavares, so that should help. I understand if you want to "hold out", as i've stated, there will be teams interested. Not sure if the offers will be much better than this though.
Well nobody can be sure, but Schenn + Colborne + 2nd IMO wouldn't be that hard to match....its not a very good return.

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05-16-2012, 02:51 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Well nobody can be sure, but Schenn + Colborne + 2nd IMO wouldn't be that hard to match....its not a very good return.
Lets not pretend that taking a 33 year old goalie with 6 years at top dollar isn't at least a little risky..ok? The return IS going to reflect as such.

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05-16-2012, 02:54 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by asdfman View Post
Schenn's skating does worry me, but the Canucks definitely do not play a similar system that Ron Wilson employs. Not even close. AV use to emphasize defense first when the Canucks weren't as good as they were now. The biggest change he has made is activating the defense in the offensive zone
Not a similar style but in terms of playing a high tempo offensive minded system. Thats why I don't want a defenseman who looks like he skates in quick sand sometimes. I don't want to consistently see 2 on 1's



Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Lets not pretend that taking a 33 year old goalie with 6 years at top dollar isn't at least a little risky..ok? The return IS going to reflect as such.
He is making top dollar? I'm pretty sure there are other goalies who make more in terms of cap hit & actual salary.

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05-16-2012, 02:56 PM
  #59
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If we can't get the 5th or Gardiner then I would do something along the lines of Kadri, 2nd and a 1st in 2013. But I don't think Toronto and Vancouver are good trading partners to begin with.

I'd rather get Connolly or the 10th out of Tampa instead.

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05-16-2012, 02:59 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
If we can't get the 5th or Gardiner then I would do something along the lines of Kadri, 2nd and a 1st in 2013. But I don't think Toronto and Vancouver are good trading partners to begin with.

I'd rather get Connolly or the 10th out of Tampa instead.
Tampa has alot of long term deals already, not sure they will be interested at all,let alone for that. And the 1st or Gardiner from TO...nogo.

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05-16-2012, 03:01 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeatles View Post
Not a similar style but in terms of playing a high tempo offensive minded system. Thats why I don't want a defenseman who looks like he skates in quick sand sometimes. I don't want to consistently see 2 on 1's




He is making top dollar? I'm pretty sure there are other goalies who make more in terms of cap hit & actual salary.
I meant in terms of his contract, as in 6 of the 10 years are at max for his contract. That being said, i know Tampa's owner has alot of cash, but the team loses money. So, while the cap hit is ok...6.7 Mil in real money may be an issue.

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05-16-2012, 03:03 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Tampa has alot of long term deals already, not sure they will be interested at all,let alone for that. And the 1st or Gardiner from TO...nogo.
Really isn't asking much for a top 5-10 goalie. Considering the age and the contract that's a good deal for both teams to make.

And yeah I figured it's not ideal which is why I'm not really interested in a deal involving Toronto.

If we can't get something of value(like real value) then I'd seriously rather trade Schneider. I think he can fetch a premium.

If Luongo didn't have that NTC how things would be different.

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05-16-2012, 03:07 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
Really isn't asking much for a top 5-10 goalie. Considering the age and the contract that's a good deal for both teams to make.

And yeah I figured it's not ideal which is why I'm not really interested in a deal involving Toronto.

If we can't get something of value(like real value) then I'd seriously rather trade Schneider. I think he can fetch a premium.

If Luongo didn't have that NTC how things would be different.
Yup...and here inlies just one of the reasons this contract isn't ideal. It actually may force Van. to trade Schnieder instead. These are some of the reasons posters aren't chomping at the bit to give really good assets to obtain that contract. A couple of years down the road, another team MAY be in the same situation as Van. And yes, i said MAY,

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05-16-2012, 03:28 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
It would depend on what else was in the package. Kadri is (hopefully) NHL ready and one of the Leafs highest prospects. He is also a center which we don't have alot of depth. So before i give a total answer...what is your whole proposal?
Well the reason i picked out Kadri was because i think he could be a good fit playing with Kesler and Booth (who i believe the canucks will not trade either and instead give them one full year to make it work between them). I also as a canucks fan think that a deal with toronto would only make sense if one of the 1st , Gardiner, or Kadri, were involved. Seems from the recent posts on this forum that unfortunetly the 1st and Gardiner are untouchable, but heres a go:

My Proposals

Van:

Kadri
2nd 2012
2nd 2013 or 1st 2013 - conditional on if they make the playoffs


Toronto:

Loungo



OR Something a little more extreme


Van:

Kadri
Gardiner
2nd 2012
2nd 2013 or 1st 2013 - conditional on if they make the playoffs

Toronto:

Luongo
Edler

This deal could only work/make sense if the canucks were able to pursuade Schultz to sign in Van or make a big push and land Weber ( both are questionable at the moment). We may also have to find a way to move Ballard.

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05-16-2012, 03:32 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanCloutiers5hole View Post
Well the reason i picked out Kadri was because i think he could be a good fit playing with Kesler and Booth (who i believe the canucks will not trade either and instead give them one full year to make it work between them). I also as a canucks fan think that a deal with toronto would only make sense if one of the 1st , Gardiner, or Kadri, were involved. Seems from the recent posts on this forum that unfortunetly the 1st and Gardiner are untouchable, but heres a go:

My Proposals

Van:

Kadri
2nd 2012
2nd 2013 or 1st 2013 - conditional on if they make the playoffs


Toronto:

Loungo



OR Something a little more extreme


Van:

Kadri
Gardiner
2nd 2012
2nd 2013 or 1st 2013 - conditional on if they make the playoffs

Toronto:

Luongo
Edler

This deal could only work/make sense if the canucks were able to pursuade Schultz to sign in Van or make a big push and land Weber ( both are questionable at the moment). We may also have to find a way to move Ballard.
The 1st one is a maybe, the second is a nogo. Gardiner is a deal breaker IMO.

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05-16-2012, 03:34 PM
  #66
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I think Toronto is willing to move assets to get Luongo, certainly including guys like Schenn, Gunnarsson, Kadri or Colborne, but we simply cannot afford to trade Jake Gardiner at this time.

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05-16-2012, 03:35 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
The 1st one is a maybe, the second is a nogo. Gardiner is a deal breaker IMO.
I would do neither of those awful deals!

Edler>Gardiner
Luongo> Kadri

I don't think the 2 2nd rounders make up the difference.

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05-16-2012, 03:35 PM
  #68
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^But you know they'll make the playoffs in the east with Luongo so we'd get a first out of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanCloutiers5hole View Post
Well the reason i picked out Kadri was because i think he could be a good fit playing with Kesler and Booth (who i believe the canucks will not trade either and instead give them one full year to make it work between them). I also as a canucks fan think that a deal with toronto would only make sense if one of the 1st , Gardiner, or Kadri, were involved. Seems from the recent posts on this forum that unfortunetly the 1st and Gardiner are untouchable, but heres a go:

My Proposals

Van:

Kadri
2nd 2012
2nd 2013 or 1st 2013 - conditional on if they make the playoffs


Toronto:

Loungo
I don't know how Toronto fans feel, but I'd make a trade like this. Seems a little above what Toronto fans want pay and a little less then the Canucks would want to get.
I'd love to have players like Kesler, the Sedin's and Manny bring this kid along. He's been sent up and down and knows what it takes to be an NHLer and will do whats expected of him. Gives Vancouver 3 offensive lines again if he can step up.

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05-16-2012, 03:37 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeatles View Post
I would do neither of those awful deals!

Edler>Gardiner
Luongo> Kadri

I don't think the 2 2nd rounders make up the difference.
Edler-Gardiner, Luongo-Kadri, moving a lifer contract to sign the goalie you want to keep...priceless.

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05-16-2012, 03:37 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanCloutiers5hole View Post
Well the reason i picked out Kadri was because i think he could be a good fit playing with Kesler and Booth (who i believe the canucks will not trade either and instead give them one full year to make it work between them). I also as a canucks fan think that a deal with toronto would only make sense if one of the 1st , Gardiner, or Kadri, were involved. Seems from the recent posts on this forum that unfortunetly the 1st and Gardiner are untouchable, but heres a go:

My Proposals

Van:

Kadri
2nd 2012
2nd 2013 or 1st 2013 - conditional on if they make the playoffs


Toronto:

Loungo



OR Something a little more extreme


Van:

Kadri
Gardiner
2nd 2012
2nd 2013 or 1st 2013 - conditional on if they make the playoffs

Toronto:

Luongo
Edler

This deal could only work/make sense if the canucks were able to pursuade Schultz to sign in Van or make a big push and land Weber ( both are questionable at the moment). We may also have to find a way to move Ballard.


There is absolutely no way Canucks make that second deal.

Edler is the better defenseman out of two.

Luongo for Kadri and a 2nd wouldn't enough.

Just terrible.

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05-16-2012, 03:41 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Edler-Gardiner, Luongo-Kadri, moving a lifer contract to sign the goalie you want to keep...priceless.
yeah..... no.

Like has been stated NUMEROUS times that lifer contract isn't as bad as the majority of people make it out to be. And "Edler-Gardiner" no

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05-16-2012, 03:42 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post


There is absolutely no way Canucks make that second deal.

Edler is the better defenseman out of two.

Luongo for Kadri and a 2nd wouldn't enough.

Just terrible.
You missed the conditional 1st which according to alot of people is a guarantee as Luongo will get us to the playoffs.

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05-16-2012, 03:43 PM
  #73
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Schenn, Ashton, 3rd

Go away, Luongo.

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05-16-2012, 03:43 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by TheBeatles View Post
yeah..... no.

Like has been stated NUMEROUS times that lifer contract isn't as bad as the majority of people make it out to be. And "Edler-Gardiner" no
I was mocking a commercial, not comparing value...Jesus...and that contract is ugly. If you don't think so...keep it.

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05-16-2012, 03:59 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
You missed the conditional 1st which according to alot of people is a guarantee as Luongo will get us to the playoffs.
Well if you look at the numbers the 6 years Luongo has been here we averaged 10 more points a season, would have been more had Nonis been able to do anything in his time here. And I think we can all agree taking a team avg from 94 points to 104 points is a lot more difficult then taking a team from saying around 80 points to 95 points.

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