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Old
05-16-2012, 10:17 PM
  #76
sully1410
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I've heard slot of stuff about this Hosgson trade. I don't care how you slice it, gillis made a bad trade. Had he kept Cody through the playoffs, they prolly would have done better against the kings, if not won, and be on their way to the cup right now. He traded hodgson for a pittance when he could have waited until the off season, and got more for him.

The kid was a Calder candidate, had gillis not traded him, he could have won it, and his value would have sky rocketed.

The hodgson trade was a bad trade, not other way to slice it.

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05-16-2012, 10:26 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
I've heard slot of stuff about this Hosgson trade. I don't care how you slice it, gillis made a bad trade. Had he kept Cody through the playoffs, they prolly would have done better against the kings, if not won, and be on their way to the cup right now. He traded hodgson for a pittance when he could have waited until the off season, and got more for him.

The kid was a Calder candidate, had gillis not traded him, he could have won it, and his value would have sky rocketed.

The hodgson trade was a bad trade, not other way to slice it.
If trading Hodgson (to a team that put him in the top six and gave him loads of ice time) took him out of his alleged Calder contention then perhaps it wasn't Hodgson doing well so much as Hodgson being put in a position to succeed?

If that's possible (ie. another way to "slice it" if you will) then I fail to see how Hodgson would have turned a 1-4 record into 4-3, that's an astonishing difference and there is a very short list of players capable of having that kind of individual impact on a nightly basis - Hodgson, deserving Calder candidate or not, is not on that list.

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05-16-2012, 10:34 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
I've heard slot of stuff about this Hosgson trade. I don't care how you slice it, gillis made a bad trade. Had he kept Cody through the playoffs, they prolly would have done better against the kings, if not won, and be on their way to the cup right now. He traded hodgson for a pittance when he could have waited until the off season, and got more for him.

The kid was a Calder candidate, had gillis not traded him, he could have won it, and his value would have sky rocketed.

The hodgson trade was a bad trade, not other way to slice it.
So, have you followed the situation at all?

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05-16-2012, 10:50 PM
  #79
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So, have you followed the situation at all?
Course I have. Vancouver is my western conference team, so I will cruise through the boards every now and again. The fact remains as this, hodgson would have provided much needed offensive fire power to the Vancouver Canucks. I think that could have made a big difference.

Who cares whether he'd not in it now. He had good chemistry with Booth and Kesler. He put up good numbers with good line mates, and it would have increased his value to be considered for the Calder. The fact that he may not have deserved it is moot. Who cares? His value would have gone up and could have been used to land a better player or great picks instead of Kassian.

Don't get me wrong, he may pan out, but I'm pretty sure the Canucks and its fan base want a cup. I'm just saying.

If kassian was really the missing piece, he could have been had for much cheaper then a kid like Hodgson.

I'm not going to comment on whether he should be traded, just that it was a bad trade. And it was a bad trade. If he was going to be traded, fine, but Gillis should have waited till the off season when his value was higher.

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05-16-2012, 10:53 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Course I have. Vancouver is my western conference team, so I will cruise through the boards every now and again. The fact remains as this, hodgson would have provided much needed offensive fire power to the Vancouver Canucks. I think that could have made a big difference.

Who cares whether he'd not in it now. He had good chemistry with Booth and Kesler. He put up good numbers with good line mates, and it would have increased his value to be considered for the Calder. The fact that he may not have deserved it is moot. Who cares? His value would have gone up and could have been used to land a better player or great picks instead of Kassian.

Don't get me wrong, he may pan out, but I'm pretty sure the Canucks and its fan base want a cup. I'm just saying.

If kassian was really the missing piece, he could have been had for much cheaper then a kid like Hodgson.

I'm not going to comment on whether he should be traded, just that it was a bad trade. And it was a bad trade. If he was going to be traded, fine, but Gillis should have waited till the off season when his value was higher.
Half way through and I can tell you didn't watch the Canucks this year.

8 points in his last 33 games doesn't spell savior to me.

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05-16-2012, 10:55 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
If trading Hodgson (to a team that put him in the top six and gave him loads of ice time) took him out of his alleged Calder contention then perhaps it wasn't Hodgson doing well so much as Hodgson being put in a position to succeed?

If that's possible (ie. another way to "slice it" if you will) then I fail to see how Hodgson would have turned a 1-4 record into 4-3, that's an astonishing difference and there is a very short list of players capable of having that kind of individual impact on a nightly basis - Hodgson, deserving Calder candidate or not, is not on that list.
Hank can only play make if there is some one other then his injured brother that's going capitalize on it and actually score goals. CH would have been that guy. Kes was hurt, Burrows was...I don't know. Same with booth and Raymond hasn't been the same since he busted up his back.

Canucks needed the extra fire power. Plain and simple.

And that brings right back to why it would have been better to trade him in the off season.

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05-16-2012, 11:00 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Half way through and I can tell you didn't watch the Canucks this year.

8 points in his last 33 games doesn't spell savior to me.
Because Kassian was such a great investment? Seriously?

The bulk of the last 33 games was spent in Buffalo. I would agree that he was not productive in that time...but your going to try and tell me that had he stayed with the Canucks his numbers wouldn't have been any better? Where he was playing with better line mates?

Come on man.

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05-16-2012, 11:02 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Because Kassian was such a great investment? Seriously?

The bulk of the last 33 games was spent in Buffalo. I would agree that he was not productive in that time...but your going to try and tell me that had he stayed with the Canucks his numbers wouldn't have been any better? Where he was playing with better line mates?

Come on man.
He played with better linemates in Buffalo (Vanek, Stafford, Pominville, Ennis, etc.) and got 1st unit PP time (a ton of it). You're just embarrassing yourself because it's pretty clear that you not only didn't watch any of the Canucks games but you also didn't watch any of Buffalo's games. Hell, it's apparent that you haven't even researched this stuff online.

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05-16-2012, 11:04 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Course I have. Vancouver is my western conference team, so I will cruise through the boards every now and again. The fact remains as this, hodgson would have provided much needed offensive fire power to the Vancouver Canucks. I think that could have made a big difference.

Who cares whether he'd not in it now. He had good chemistry with Booth and Kesler. He put up good numbers with good line mates, and it would have increased his value to be considered for the Calder. The fact that he may not have deserved it is moot. Who cares? His value would have gone up and could have been used to land a better player or great picks instead of Kassian.

Don't get me wrong, he may pan out, but I'm pretty sure the Canucks and its fan base want a cup. I'm just saying.

If kassian was really the missing piece, he could have been had for much cheaper then a kid like Hodgson.

I'm not going to comment on whether he should be traded, just that it was a bad trade. And it was a bad trade. If he was going to be traded, fine, but Gillis should have waited till the off season when his value was higher.
Like I said, did you follow the situation at all?

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05-16-2012, 11:04 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Because Kassian was such a great investment? Seriously?

The bulk of the last 33 games was spent in Buffalo. I would agree that he was not productive in that time...but your going to try and tell me that had he stayed with the Canucks his numbers wouldn't have been any better? Where he was playing with better line mates?

Come on man.
Think you missed out on the whole discussion of Hodgon's ice time. Forgot who, but someone dug up stats during his Rookie of the Month month and found that he was spoonfed butter-soft minutes to inflate his trade value.

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05-16-2012, 11:09 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
He played with better linemates in Buffalo (Vanek, Stafford, Pominville, Ennis, etc.) and got 1st unit PP time (a ton of it). You're just embarrassing yourself because it's pretty clear that you not only didn't watch any of the Canucks games but you also didn't watch any of Buffalo's games. Hell, it's apparent that you haven't even researched this stuff online.
So those are guys are better then Kesler? Who just came off a 40g Selke season? Hodgson finished with 43pts that's exactly 9 behind Landeskog and 8 behind Henrique.

Your going to try and tell me that he wouldn't have made any difference in the out come of the series? That extra scoring wouldn't have helped?

Or him performing well in the playoffs and getting more points on a team that was a contender as opposed to a bubble team wouldn't have helped his value at all in the off season?

Or do you actually think that the Kassian trade worked out?

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05-16-2012, 11:10 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
So those are guys are better then Kesler? Who just came off a 40g Selke season? Hodgson finished with 43pts that's exactly 9 behind Landeskog and 8 behind Henrique.
He never played with Kesler.

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05-16-2012, 11:13 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
So those are guys are better then Kesler? Who just came off a 40g Selke season? Hodgson finished with 43pts that's exactly 9 behind Landeskog and 8 behind Henrique.

Your going to try and tell me that he wouldn't have made any difference in the out come of the series? That extra scoring wouldn't have helped?

Or him performing well in the playoffs and getting more points on a team that was a contender as opposed to a bubble team wouldn't have helped his value at all in the off season?

Or do you actually think that the Kassian trade worked out?
You operate on the assumption that he would have gotten much icetime in the playoffs. He was the worst forward on the team defensively and that doesnt go over well with AV.

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05-16-2012, 11:22 PM
  #89
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You operate on the assumption that he would have gotten much icetime in the playoffs. He was the worst forward on the team defensively and that doesnt go over well with AV.
This is a point that I wont argue with. I really don't know how much ice time he would have had.

As for him playing with kesler, I guess it was just a figment of my imagination then or something?

Let's just say I'm wrong about him playing with Kes, the fact that he put up 16g in his time here, in his rookie season, without great line mates is even more impressive and supports my argument even more.

The Hodgson-Kassian trade was a bad trade. That's my point. It was a bad trade and a **** idea to not trade him in the off season.

Edit: I kind of got off topic here. I just think that Gillia could have gotten a better return for him whether it be at the trade deadline or in the off season.

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05-16-2012, 11:32 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
This is a point that I wont argue with. I really don't know how much ice time he would have had.

As for him playing with kesler, I guess it was just a figment of my imagination then or something?

Let's just say I'm wrong about him playing with Kes, the fact that he put up 16g in his time here, in his rookie season, without great line mates is even more impressive and supports my argument even more.

The Hodgson-Kassian trade was a bad trade. That's my point. It was a bad trade and a **** idea to not trade him in the off season.

Edit: I kind of got off topic here. I just think that Gillia could have gotten a better return for him whether it be at the trade deadline or in the off season.
http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2012/02...nster-january/

Read it, and you might change your opinion on how Hodgson would have saved our post-season. During his monster month, he was getting more O-zone time than H. Sedin!

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05-16-2012, 11:33 PM
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Oh no, I see what makes Kassian an attractive asset. I do. Great defensive forward. He's tough throws big hits. I get it.

I'm not saying that obtaining Kassian was a bad idea. I'm saying trading hodgson for Kassian was a bad idea. You could have landed more for him. That's the point I'm trying to make. You over payed for zack Kassian.

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05-16-2012, 11:33 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post

I am not so upset at the CoHo trade as I am that Kassian wasn't given a chance to succeed when he got here. We never really saw what he could do, and given the impact of rookies for other teams in the playoffs, I think that was a major mistake.
That's the way Vigneault is though. You make a mistake, you're benched. We saw it with Raymond's awful attempt at checking Kopitar in game 4. However, I think he's too hard on the rookies when they make a mistake. It's walking a fine line between teaching them a lesson and hurting their confidence.

You are completely right though, Kassian was cemented in a bottom 6 role for much of the season and I don't think we really got to see what he really is capable of and I (this run-on is really bothering me right now) think he will come back better this October. AV needs to give as many opportunities to Kassian as he did to Hodgson. I don't really doubt AV's ability to develop players, but the process does get a bit tedious and hard to follow from a basic logic standpoint at times.

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05-16-2012, 11:39 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Hank can only play make if there is some one other then his injured brother that's going capitalize on it and actually score goals. CH would have been that guy. Kes was hurt, Burrows was...I don't know. Same with booth and Raymond hasn't been the same since he busted up his back.

Canucks needed the extra fire power. Plain and simple.

And that brings right back to why it would have been better to trade him in the off season.
I'm going to guess you've never see Hodgson play the wing position. Hell given your other posts I'm wondering how much you've seen him play in the NHL, period.

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05-16-2012, 11:40 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Oh no, I see what makes Kassian an attractive asset. I do. Great defensive forward. He's tough throws big hits. I get it.

I'm not saying that obtaining Kassian was a bad idea. I'm saying trading hodgson for Kassian was a bad idea. You could have landed more for him. That's the point I'm trying to make. You over payed for zack Kassian.
What could we have gotten that's better than Kassian then?

Kassian is a highly touted prospect who also happens to be a powerforward; hard to find, hard to develop, but if they do develop nicely, it pays off. See Lucic and Bertuzzi as examples; they weren't stellar earlier in their careers, but when they developed, there aren't many players that could do what they can.

Risky? Yes. But it's a risk we chose to take.

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05-16-2012, 11:42 PM
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This entire situation with Cody Hodgson is a massive failing on the part of the Canucks management and coaching staff, there is no other way around it.

Our medical staff misdiagnosed him, our coach called him out in his first training camp and basically threw him under the bus, didn't trust him, didn't play him enough despite being one of our best players, and now the Canucks are airing all of this in the media and in the public forum.
In retrospect I think the lobbying for special treatment by the Hodgson camp started there. Draft picks don't make the team on their first NHL camp 99% of the time, and AV must've delivered that news hundreds of times, so there is no reason AV doesn't have the "He had a good camp, but we want him to work on this" routine well rehearsed by then.

So Hodgson's relationship with the Canucks would have soured even without the back injury. It would have soured the moment Hodgson's camp doesn't get their way, and that would be making the NHL right away.

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05-17-2012, 12:18 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Oh no, I see what makes Kassian an attractive asset. I do. Great defensive forward. He's tough throws big hits. I get it.

I'm not saying that obtaining Kassian was a bad idea. I'm saying trading hodgson for Kassian was a bad idea. You could have landed more for him. That's the point I'm trying to make. You over payed for zack Kassian.
I guess if we could have found another NHL GM who watched Hodgson as close as you have maybe we could have gotten the sun, moon and a few stars for him, but sadly, other teams actually scout players, you know, watch them play, see their strong points as well as their weak points. Not to many NHL teams trade for guys only by looking at their stats line.

Do you really think it was a secret around the NHL GM's that Hodgson had some negative traits?

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05-17-2012, 12:25 AM
  #97
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I dont want to rip on the jets guy (sully) but I think it's clear he's more focused on the Jets than the Canucks as a lot of the information he was using is incorrect.

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05-17-2012, 12:32 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Oh no, I see what makes Kassian an attractive asset. I do. Great defensive forward. He's tough throws big hits. I get it.

I'm not saying that obtaining Kassian was a bad idea. I'm saying trading hodgson for Kassian was a bad idea. You could have landed more for him. That's the point I'm trying to make. You over payed for zack Kassian.
A few point your dont seem to realize or just plain dont know about the trade.

1st, Vancouver aquired Kassian AND MA Gragnani, a young puck moving dman with a very low cap hit of $550,000.00

2 Hodgson has a cap hit of 1,666,666 on his contract. Kassian has a cap hit of $870,000

3 Hodgson has only one season left on his current deal, Kassian has 2 years left on his deal.

4 Kassian has been more productive in the AHL with 15 goals and 11 assists in 30 games played last year, his only stint in the AHL. Hodgson had 17 goals and 13 assists in 52 games played. 4 more points in 22 more games for a player who is supposed to have a much higher skill level?

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05-17-2012, 01:12 AM
  #99
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Good to see Wetcoaster giving his two cents in the comment section on the link.

Btw, what was in the Jim Jamieson interview with Hodgson?
Anyone has the link or the summary?
I don't think I have ever heard of that one.

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05-17-2012, 01:28 AM
  #100
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I don't understand why people think Hodgson would have been an impact player in the playoffs. He succeeded when they were able to get him into soft minutes. There are practically no soft minutes in the playoffs, and the gymnastics required to get on the ice in situations where he wouldn't get absolutely eaten alive would have likely not been worth it. We'd probably have seen him playing 4th line minutes.

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