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Gary Bettman should be fired the current labor crisis?

View Poll Results: do you think Gary Bettman should be fired?
yes 114 46.53%
no 122 49.80%
other 9 3.67%
Voters: 245. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-17-2004, 09:22 AM
  #26
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Gary Bettman is carrying out his mandate as directed by his employers, the NHL Board of Governors. He isn't doing anything they haven't asked of him. He is doing a fine job.

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12-17-2004, 09:34 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Chris
If Bettman is so bad, why are the majority of people here backing him?
Its a giant ****** or a turd sandwich.

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Old
12-17-2004, 10:25 AM
  #28
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Bettmen to me seems most passionate in the fight Vs the NHLPA, if he had 1/2 the fire he shows in news conferances the last few months to the game itself, the NHL would be a lot better. in the last ten years we have seen the NHL decline from sport ready flourish to everyone media hack's punchline. Perhaps the Burtuzzi thing exposed the US media's wholly hate for the game but they ( as in east coast sports media ) hate NASCAR too, yet that sport is really taking over, its as provincial as hockey is. After the labor mess get Bettman out and someone not only very talented and market savy, but with some real passion for the game, someone who will stop the NHL from getting kicked around.

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12-17-2004, 11:56 AM
  #29
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Both of these leaders are supported and backed heavily by their respective parties so I don't think anyone's going to get fired..

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Old
12-17-2004, 12:28 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astaroth
I cannot believe that the majority of people are voting to keep this clown around, it just shows how deluded some people are. I don't care if you're supremely pro-owner and want the players to make 10$ an hour but you cannot tell me this guy has not failed the nhl. He has overexpanded the league, didn't reinvest the one-time cash boom of new teams and new arenas, negotiated a tv deal is a complete joke and basically killed the NHL as a major 4 sport. In 1994 we were poised to take over the USA, now we have lower ratings than bowling and poker and that's before the lockout. If there is no season, hell even if there is a season at this point, people are going to see just how insignificant hockey will have become to the American public. 2 billion industry? Please we'll be lucky to be at a 1.5, 1 billion industry if this lockout is resolved soon. The CBA has nothing to do with this. I am still actually relatively pro-owner in terms of what needs to be done in a fiancial aspect.
You don't fire someone because of mistakes they made in the past. You fire them for the mistakes they make presently. Everyone makes mistakes. If you want to fire someone because of them, do it after he made the mistakes. Don't wait 10 years before you fire him and base it on his actions 10 years ago.

IMO, Bettman made his mistakes. But now he is trying to correct them. If he loses on the CBA, then he should be fired. But for the way he is conducting the CBA negotiations right now, I see no reason for firing him. I commend him for a job well done.

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12-17-2004, 12:40 PM
  #31
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Someone please remind me, why would the owners fire someone for doing what they want? The hardline on the cap? That's the owners. Bettman is just their representative.

Don't shoot the messenger...

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Old
12-17-2004, 02:18 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
Wow some people have really swallowed the kool-aid.
I thnk he was being sarastic (or at least facetious)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accord
Back in the early 90's, one issue of Sports Illustrated had on the cover "The NHL is hot, the NBA is not" or something along those lines, that will never happen again so long as Bettman is at the helm, he destroyed the league.
The NHL was hot why? Because the states won the World Cup and the NYR won the cup (see the cover of SI). A sport will always be popular if New York is a champion.

How did Bettman destroy the league? Go check out the other Bettamn thread about how clueless people (not you necesarily) simply blame the man at the top for problems in the league (players clutching and grabbing, owners spending too much, American economy struggling...). Ya, Blame Bettman.

The owners all said they will not start the season without cost certainty. The players give an offer without it and the NHL says no, the PA offers a huge bribe to keep a semblance of the current system and the NHL says no and people ***** about it.

The NHL has never changed its stance from day 1. Why are people mad at Bettman for doing what he said he was going to do? I totally agree with the 3 posts above this one.

Anyone who voted for Bettman to get fired, please feel free to offer a reasonable alternative replacement.

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Old
12-17-2004, 02:31 PM
  #33
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Bettman should be fired only AFTER the new deal. Fired for his failures to get the TV deal the league needs, fired for altering the game to please TV networks BEFORE he had such a deal. Fired for driving fans away by the millions. For the league to right itself on the ice, he must certainly get gone. So I voted for "other."
-HckyFght

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Old
12-17-2004, 02:35 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
The Rangers had just won the Stanley Cup. Its always great news when New York wins something, especially when you are trying to sell a TV contract.
Let's also gave major credit to New Jersey and Vancouver for also putting on a great show because a Ranger Stanley Cup sweep by itself would have been as memorable or lasting for the NHL as Detroit ending it's run without a cup a few years later.

It was the quality of the hockey and great games that sold people, not the markets the games were played in back in 94. It was also a more popular era for hockey in general.

Regarding Bettman his only mistake was trying to save the NHL season in 1995 and agreeing to play hockey with a system that failed while Goodenow was ready to accept a cap.

He is not going to make the same mistake again.

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12-17-2004, 02:35 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outKast
Gary is fighting the good fight for all us fans.

LOL, Hes not fighting ANYTHING for the Fans. He just saids that for PR.

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12-17-2004, 02:36 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane
Someone please remind me, why would the owners fire someone for doing what they want? The hardline on the cap? That's the owners. Bettman is just their representative.

Don't shoot the messenger...
Gary is the Messenger? I dont think so. Gary is calling all the shots. Sure he gains support from some GMS but he is certainly not taking orders from the owners and just acting as messenger.

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12-17-2004, 02:54 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
Gary is the Messenger? I dont think so. Gary is calling all the shots. Sure he gains support from some GMS but he is certainly not taking orders from the owners and just acting as messenger.
He represent's the owners, not the him calling the shots. Most people also fail to remember that in 1995 there were many owners who pressured him to get a deal done simply because they had just finished (or were in the process of making) new arenas and needed the revenues to help with financing them. That pressure undermined Bettmen's position then, but it does not exist this time around.

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Old
12-17-2004, 02:58 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
Gary is the Messenger? I dont think so. Gary is calling all the shots. Sure he gains support from some GMS but he is certainly not taking orders from the owners and just acting as messenger.
He is acting on behalf of the owners in accordance to their wishes. Sounds like a messenger to me.

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Old
12-17-2004, 03:21 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYIsles1
Regarding Bettman his only mistake was trying to save the NHL season in 1995 and agreeing to play hockey with a system that failed while Goodenow was ready to accept a cap.
And in fact, Bettman advised the owners then against the deal. But some were in tough positions, hadn't properly prepared for the lockout, and gave in.

That's why they changed the rules in voting this time, so that a few owners couldn't circumvent him, like last time.

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Old
12-17-2004, 04:05 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriss_co
You don't fire someone because of mistakes they made in the past. You fire them for the mistakes they make presently. Everyone makes mistakes. If you want to fire someone because of them, do it after he made the mistakes. Don't wait 10 years before you fire him and base it on his actions 10 years ago.

IMO, Bettman made his mistakes. But now he is trying to correct them. If he loses on the CBA, then he should be fired. But for the way he is conducting the CBA negotiations right now, I see no reason for firing him. I commend him for a job well done.
What? ... He didn't make his mistakes ten years ago and then suddenly I want to fire him ten years later. The incompetent man has been making his mistakes all over his tenure, starting from ten years ago. I want to fire his sorry butt because he's been a terrible manager of the game.

Yah! He's trying to correct his mistakes, commendable not mabye ultimately futile. Even if the owners win this CBA, they might have won the battle but lost the war. As I stated, the NHL might never recover as a major sport and if that happens Bettman is to blame. Not only him of course but he's definetly part of the equation.

I just feel that the commish shouldn't someone who doesn't jack about the game.

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Old
12-17-2004, 06:54 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astaroth
What? ... He didn't make his mistakes ten years ago and then suddenly I want to fire him ten years later. The incompetent man has been making his mistakes all over his tenure, starting from ten years ago. I want to fire his sorry butt because he's been a terrible manager of the game.

Yah! He's trying to correct his mistakes, commendable not mabye ultimately futile. Even if the owners win this CBA, they might have won the battle but lost the war. As I stated, the NHL might never recover as a major sport and if that happens Bettman is to blame. Not only him of course but he's definetly part of the equation.

I just feel that the commish shouldn't someone who doesn't jack about the game.
What has he done wrong lately? The thing everyone harps on Bettman for is expansion to markets that don't necessarily have an interest in the sport. In hind sight, this was a horrible decision BUT the millions of dollars that came in definitely fueled the league (it even allowed small market teams to stay alive longer since they were given expansion money for several years). Plus, believe it or not, they did expose southern americans to the game of hockey (even if they didn't particularly like it).

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Old
12-17-2004, 10:58 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriss_co
What has he done wrong lately? The thing everyone harps on Bettman for is expansion to markets that don't necessarily have an interest in the sport. In hind sight, this was a horrible decision BUT the millions of dollars that came in definitely fueled the league (it even allowed small market teams to stay alive longer since they were given expansion money for several years). Plus, believe it or not, they did expose southern americans to the game of hockey (even if they didn't particularly like it).
What you cited, the expansion is one fo my main gripes with him. The expansion money didn't let small market teams live longer. You're deluded if you think he's doing this for small market teams. All that money that came from expansion were just plainy burnt away on salaries.

Yes exposing them to the game is clearly worth the situation we are in right now...

What has he done wrong lately? How about this stupid lockout! Man if the season is lost, hockey might never recover from this. As optimistically speaking being relegated to MLS soccer or Arena Football league status. Realistically we might fall lower because of the fallout of ticket prices not falling after the lockout. You can say that the players are apart of the problem, which obviously true. However you don't try to imposed a hard cap on a completly free market system. You do it in several progressive CBAs. If you don't this is what we have, potentially a lost season and many more.

The man doesn't know nothing about the game, nothing! Have you ever seen NHL marketing? Terrible, just f**king terrible. Whatever, I obviously feel that he's grossly incompetent and he should leave. But obviously it can be done now because of the cba cold war but in an ideal world he would ahve been fired long ago.

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12-18-2004, 02:04 AM
  #43
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the nhl shoudl be involved in the game

marketing resentation PR and the gane should be on the ice

to do that they have to negotiate a cba that boh sides of the labour can agree and hopefully prosper under.

lame a$$ tv deals and lame @ss tv telecats on american networks have made our games even for me very boring!

this is gary's faulr directly and indirect.y

say what you want about gil stien but he was a life long hockey fan and he was commish for how long?

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12-18-2004, 09:33 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor of MacAppolis
Gary Bettman is carrying out his mandate as directed by his employers, the NHL Board of Governors. He isn't doing anything they haven't asked of him. He is doing a fine job.
Exactly right. Some people see him as some evil dictator when he's just the public face of the owners. It's really kind of funny.

Not our place to decide if he should get canned or not.

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12-18-2004, 09:42 AM
  #45
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Yes he should be fired.

I think the lockout was inevitable, but the league needs a new face after all this so we don't have to be reminded of it and can try to change the direction of the trends in the sport.

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12-18-2004, 09:51 AM
  #46
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Yes !!!

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Old
12-18-2004, 11:46 AM
  #47
chriss_co
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astaroth
What you cited, the expansion is one fo my main gripes with him. The expansion money didn't let small market teams live longer. You're deluded if you think he's doing this for small market teams. All that money that came from expansion were just plainy burnt away on salaries.
I never said he went ahead with expansion for small market teams. I'm not even a supporter of expansion. All I am saying is that at the time there were positives for going ahead with expansion. But yes, expansion money did allow small market teams to live longer. Without that extra $10 million each year, you would already see several small market teams gone... i think the best example is Edmonton. During the expansion years, they were already running their "save the oiler's" campaign. Now, imagine them without that extra $10 million... they'd be already gone

Now, does that mean expansion was a good thing? No. Because it hid the problems of the league and in fact exasperated them. Teams now had more money to spend and so they went out and spent them uncontrollably on player salaries.

But yes, expansion is Bettman's major foley.

Quote:
Yes exposing them to the game is clearly worth the situation we are in right now...
But yet you criticize the league's marketing?

Quote:
What has he done wrong lately? How about this stupid lockout! Man if the season is lost, hockey might never recover from this.
So you are suggesting that Bettman shouldn't have locked the season out. Instead he should have let 6-7 or more fringe teams just fold? or even better - move to cities in the states that dont give 2 cents about hockey but because of the owners, can support a hockey franchise?

Quote:
However you don't try to imposed a hard cap on a completly free market system. You do it in several progressive CBAs. If you don't this is what we have, potentially a lost season and many more.
That is debatable. The league did attempt to start negotiations about the CBA two years ago and the PA said no. I think at the time the league was willing to accept a tough luxory tax. But since then, with all the bankruptcies and swirling salaries with no end in sight, the league has been forced to change its view on how to save the game. I dont think the NHL can survive (30 healthy teams in their current locations) if we use a progressive CBA system.

Quote:
The man doesn't know nothing about the game, nothing! Have you ever seen NHL marketing? Terrible, just f**king terrible. Whatever, I obviously feel that he's grossly incompetent and he should leave. But obviously it can be done now because of the cba cold war but in an ideal world he would ahve been fired long ago.
I dont know about the marketing in other sports but I dont see any negatives in the NHL's marketing ploy. Much of it is how much the media covers and thats not something the NHL can directly control. I guess its also different in every city. So since i dont live in the states, its hard for me to comment on marketing.

True, Bettman 10 years ago knew little about the game. But i think he gets unfairly rapped upon today for not 'knowing the game'. Can you back it up with facts of how he doesn't 'know' the game? He is the commish first of all. He has worked in the NHL for over 10 years now. I mean how many years does it take to 'know' the game? I think ive only been exposed to NHL for about 10 years of my life also. And I for one 'know' the game.

So i think its unfair of fans to say bettman doesn't 'know' the game. Because he probably knows the game alot better than most of you. I think these accusations happen out of frustration.. not because its a logical assessment.

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Old
12-18-2004, 12:19 PM
  #48
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If Bettman gets a cap in place, why would the owners fire him? Hell, they'll give him a raise. Of course, if the Goodenow refuses to capitulate and the season is lost, the players would be stupid not to can his butt.

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12-23-2004, 11:06 PM
  #49
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I st feel that the nhl is dying with this guy as thefront man we need somone who is a superstar with supstar brains appeal personal look and vibe

Thats not gary Bettman!

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12-24-2004, 10:33 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outKast
Gary is fighting the good fight for all us fans. He should stand strong with our support. With his CBA blue print, we'll have lower ticket prices, team equality, a better product on ice, and end talks of teams being moved to other cities. Edmonton is counting on Gary Betman to fix this system
Under Bettman's watch the NHL expanded into markets it shouldn't have and he molded the NHL into a sideshow of the WWE. He's a joke. If my CEO lost $300 million he'd be fired long ago - which one more reason why I don't believe a word of the rhetoric the owners spout.

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