HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics here) XXVII

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-16-2012, 10:40 PM
  #26
Foppa2118
Registered User
 
Foppa2118's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue
Country: United States
Posts: 20,259
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet1926
Got to disagree with pretty much everything you said except for maybe comparing Semin to Kovalchuk, in terms of work ethic.

The Avs really need a top end goal scorer that and top pairing dman they are the 2 biggest needs the Avs have and I'd put them at equal importance.

We don't have enough offense currently. If you think that we do and we don't try to add a scorer we will once again be a team scratching for maybe the last playoff spot.

Look at all the playoff teams sans the unlikely final 4 team the Coyotes. All the rest have top end scorers on their squad.
NYR- Richards, Gaborik
NJ - Kovalchuk, Parise
LA - Kopitar, Richards, Carter

If that shows me anything its the importance of a high end caliber player, which is something Semin has been and can still be.
You can't really say sans a team like the Coyotes though, because they're in the Western finals. Look at Nashville, are they're forwards really more talented than Duchene, Stastny, Lando, McGinn, O'Reilly, Jones etc? They're not far off from LA either. Most teams don't have better or more talented forwards depth wise than the Avs, they're just older and their teams have better systems.

They absolutely should go after a guy like Parise, but it's not like they're starved for a one dimension offensive player like Semin. They just need the players they have to mature and play to their potential, and a coach that knows how to bring that out of them.

Foppa2118 is offline  
Old
05-16-2012, 11:17 PM
  #27
chet1926
Registered User
 
chet1926's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Country: United States
Posts: 4,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
You can't really say sans a team like the Coyotes though, because they're in the Western finals. Look at Nashville, are they're forwards really more talented than Duchene, Stastny, Lando, McGinn, O'Reilly, Jones etc? They're not far off from LA either. Most teams don't have better or more talented forwards depth wise than the Avs, they're just older and their teams have better systems.

They absolutely should go after a guy like Parise, but it's not like they're starved for a one dimension offensive player like Semin. They just need the players they have to mature and play to their potential, and a coach that knows how to bring that out of them.
If you want to play that game lets just look at the past 10 Cup winners and you'll see that a high powered offense is a must.

2011- Boston, much like the Avs are now, no superstars on offense just solid role players.
2010- Chicago (Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp etc.)
2009- Pittsburgh (Malkin, Crosby)
2008- Detroit (Datsyuk, Zetterberg)
2007- Anaheim (Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, Selanne etc.)
2006- Carolina (not a ton of firepower except Staal)
2005- cancel
2004- TB (Lecavalier, Richards, St Louis)
2003- New Jersey ( not a ton of firepower except Elias)
2002- Detroit (Shannahan, Federov, Hull, Robitallie, Yzerman, Datsyuk)
2001- Avs (Sakic, Forsberg, Hejduk, Tanguay, Drury, not to mention Blake, Bourque, Foote and Roy)

So basically in summation 7 of the past 10 (70%) Cup winners have had high powered offenses. And the 3 that didn't had world class performances in the other areas to win the Cup.

The Avs had some good pieces but are lacking in the high end quality offensive players. Players like Downie and McGinn are solid players and good additions to the team but they shouldn't be confused as high end offensive talents. Both have capabilities to be about 50pts scorers.

We do have some players that have the potential to be high end scorers like Duchene, Stastny, Landeskog but the Avs aren't in a position at this point to be picky on which high end players they go after and which ones they don't. If Parise, Semin or Radulov is available the Avs better be calling as any would be a solid addition and could really help our offense, which was anemic last year during the playoff push when Varly was standing on his head trying to help us make the playoffs.

chet1926 is offline  
Old
05-16-2012, 11:27 PM
  #28
Duchene2MacKinnon
71****70
 
Duchene2MacKinnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,928
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
Why the **** are we trading Stastny for lesser players? Isn't our main problem that we don't have enough stars? Then why the **** are we trading Stastny?

Oh it's Ronaldy... that's makes sense.
Why, would my opinion on Stastny change in the offseason?

For how long will Stastny be considered better than Josi? I personally think Josi will be a legit top pairing defender. Wilson who I also think highly of is a bonus. Buy low sell high.

Duchene2MacKinnon is online now  
Old
05-16-2012, 11:32 PM
  #29
BrickAHL
#AvaloungeRevolution
 
BrickAHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
Why, would my opinion on Stastny change in the offseason?

For how long will Stastny be considered better than Josi? I personally think Josi will be a legit top pairing defender. Wilson who I also think highly of is a bonus. Buy low sell high.
We are not selling high instead we are selling low with Stastny. Plus I love Josi too but Stastny will be better than him for a long time.

BrickAHL is offline  
Old
05-16-2012, 11:46 PM
  #30
Duchene2MacKinnon
71****70
 
Duchene2MacKinnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,928
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
We are not selling high instead we are selling low with Stastny. Plus I love Josi too but Stastny will be better than him for a long time.
I don't think Stastny will rebound with the Avs. His value is just going to decrease every game he plays ( my opinion.) I also think Josi will be better sooner rather than later.

Duchene2MacKinnon is online now  
Old
05-16-2012, 11:49 PM
  #31
BrickAHL
#AvaloungeRevolution
 
BrickAHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
I don't think Stastny will rebound with the Avs. His value is just going to decrease every game he plays ( my opinion.) I also think Josi will be better sooner rather than later.
Obviously I think Stastny will rebound especially if he can continue to play with McGinn and Jones. Plus Duchene and O'Reilly both have to prove that they can be consistent, I don't trust both of them to be the top 2 centers yet.

BrickAHL is offline  
Old
05-16-2012, 11:57 PM
  #32
Duchene2MacKinnon
71****70
 
Duchene2MacKinnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,928
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
Obviously I think Stastny will rebound especially if he can continue to play with McGinn and Jones. Plus Duchene and O'Reilly both have to prove that they can be consistent, I don't trust both of them to be the top 2 centers yet.
I trust the 2 kids over the 50 point "first line" centre.

Duchene2MacKinnon is online now  
Old
05-17-2012, 12:01 AM
  #33
Granlund2Pulkkinen*
New Kid on the Block
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Country: South Africa
Posts: 39,942
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
If you want to play that game lets just look at the past 10 Cup winners and you'll see that a high powered offense is a must.

2011- Boston, much like the Avs are now, no superstars on offense just solid role players.
2010- Chicago (Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp etc.)
2009- Pittsburgh (Malkin, Crosby)
2008- Detroit (Datsyuk, Zetterberg)
2007- Anaheim (Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, Selanne etc.)
2006- Carolina (not a ton of firepower except Staal)
2005- cancel
2004- TB (Lecavalier, Richards, St Louis)
2003- New Jersey ( not a ton of firepower except Elias)
2002- Detroit (Shannahan, Federov, Hull, Robitallie, Yzerman, Datsyuk)
2001- Avs (Sakic, Forsberg, Hejduk, Tanguay, Drury, not to mention Blake, Bourque, Foote and Roy)

So basically in summation 7 of the past 10 (70%) Cup winners have had high powered offenses. And the 3 that didn't had world class performances in the other areas to win the Cup.

The Avs had some good pieces but are lacking in the high end quality offensive players. Players like Downie and McGinn are solid players and good additions to the team but they shouldn't be confused as high end offensive talents. Both have capabilities to be about 50pts scorers.

We do have some players that have the potential to be high end scorers like Duchene, Stastny, Landeskog but the Avs aren't in a position at this point to be picky on which high end players they go after and which ones they don't. If Parise, Semin or Radulov is available the Avs better be calling as any would be a solid addition and could really help our offense, which was anemic last year during the playoff push when Varly was standing on his head trying to help us make the playoffs.
Ahem..

2011- Boston - Chara
2010- Chicago - Keith
2009- Pittsburgh - Letang
2008- Detroit - Lidstrom
2007- Anaheim - Neidermayer
2006- Carolina - Kaberle
2005- cancel
2004- TB - Boyle
2003- New Jersey - Neidermayer
2002- Detroit - Lidstrom
2001- Avs - Bourque

Granlund2Pulkkinen* is offline  
Old
05-17-2012, 12:18 AM
  #34
BrickAHL
#AvaloungeRevolution
 
BrickAHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
I trust the 2 kids over the 50 point "first line" centre.
Yeah the 2 kids, one who had a 30 point season and the other who only had 2 more points than Stastny while playing 2 more games and while playing with Landeskog. Stastny is the only one out of the three to consistently put up at least 50 points.

BrickAHL is offline  
Old
05-17-2012, 12:18 AM
  #35
Avsboy
Registered User
 
Avsboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,994
vCash: 500
We should sign Zach Parise. I can't stress this enough. We won't sign him but we should. Since we won't be signing anyone big this off-season, expect another 8-11 finish. Guaranteed. This is coming from a guy who somehow picked the past five stanley cup winners or finalists before the season started (picked NJ this year).

Avsboy is offline  
Old
05-17-2012, 12:19 AM
  #36
BrickAHL
#AvaloungeRevolution
 
BrickAHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avsboy View Post
We should sign Zach Parise. I can't stress this enough. We won't sign him but we should. Since we won't be signing anyone big this off-season, expect another 8-11 finish. Guaranteed. This is coming from a guy who somehow picked the past five stanley cup winners or finalists before the season started (picked NJ this year).
Isn't this the same guy who said Jones would be a 40 goal scorer?

BrickAHL is offline  
Old
05-17-2012, 12:21 AM
  #37
JWK
Report Spam @JWK Plz
 
JWK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 303
Country: South Korea
Posts: 11,284
vCash: 562
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
Isn't this the same guy who said Jones would be a 40 goal scorer?
Should have drafted Huberdeau based on his YT vids.

JWK is offline  
Old
05-17-2012, 12:28 AM
  #38
Rhaego
Registered User
 
Rhaego's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: Norfolk Island
Posts: 6,646
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK View Post
Should have drafted Huberdeau based on his YT vids.
Landeskog is a 3rd line grinder holmes, biggest mistake ever yo

Rhaego is offline  
Old
05-17-2012, 01:54 AM
  #39
Duchene2MacKinnon
71****70
 
Duchene2MacKinnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,928
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
Yeah the 2 kids, one who had a 30 point season and the other who only had 2 more points than Stastny while playing 2 more games and while playing with Landeskog. Stastny is the only one out of the three to consistently put up at least 50 points.
Meh, he's a youngin injuries/bad year it happens. It took Parise his 4th year in the NHL to beat Duchene's sophomore year. He'll obviously improve and ROR should be a consistent 55-60 point centre man.

What an accomplishment. Definitely, a first line 6 million dollar player.:

Duchene2MacKinnon is online now  
Old
05-17-2012, 01:58 AM
  #40
BrickAHL
#AvaloungeRevolution
 
BrickAHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
Meh, he's a youngin injuries/bad year it happens.
A bad year can happen for Duchene but it can't happen for Stastny... makes sense.


BrickAHL is offline  
Old
05-17-2012, 02:08 AM
  #41
Duchene2MacKinnon
71****70
 
Duchene2MacKinnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,928
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
A bad year can happen for Duchene but it can't happen for Stastny... makes sense.

I'm sorry but has Stastny been injured the past 2 years? I guess you can say he was injured since he needed cardiac transplant. Is Stastny a 21 yr old still learning the game? Nope, he's a soon to be a 27 year old veteran that has been regressing the past 2 years.

Duchene2MacKinnon is online now  
Old
05-17-2012, 02:12 AM
  #42
BrickAHL
#AvaloungeRevolution
 
BrickAHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
I'm sorry but has Stastny been injured the past 2 years? I guess you can say he was injured since he needed cardiac transplant. Is Stastny a 21 yr old still learning the game? Nope, he's a soon to be a 27 year old veteran that has been regressing the past 2 years.
You can use the injury excuse all you want but that wasn't the reason Duchene played bad unless it was a brain injury. He just isn't a smart player with his constant spin-o-rama's which lead to turnovers and he sucks defensively but it's the injuries that made him not know what to do in the offensive zone nor the defensive zone and it was the injuries that made him constantly turn the puck over because he wanted to pull a move that wouldn't work, right?

BrickAHL is offline  
Old
05-17-2012, 02:29 AM
  #43
Duchene2MacKinnon
71****70
 
Duchene2MacKinnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,928
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
You can use the injury excuse all you want but that wasn't the reason Duchene played bad unless it was a brain injury. He just isn't a smart player with his constant spin-o-rama's which lead to turnovers and he sucks defensively but it's the injuries that made him not know what to do in the offensive zone nor the defensive zone and it was the injuries that made him constantly turn the puck over because he wanted to pull a move that wouldn't work, right?
Smart enough to outscore Stastny in his 2nd year, as well as Tavares. Matt also had a better 2 years to start their careers than Seguin and Parise. Despite being 3 years younger than the latter.

Duchene sucked in the beginning of last year, there's no denying that. I already stated that above. Injuries certainly played a part in it. Just as it looked like he was starting to get things together(November) 14pts in 12GP Sacco in a desperate move to shake up the team decided to move him to wing. You know because he plays a wingers game and better suited as winger. Worked greeat didn't it?

To recap: Yes, Duchene had a bad year but would it have lasted the whole year if it weren't for the injuries and Sacco using him as human guinea pig? If Duchene has another bad year despite playing full time at centre then I will be on the other side until then I'll give Matt the benefit of the doubt. Of course this has nothing to do with Pauly and his issues but this is how the debates about Stastny's ****** play usually ends.

Duchene2MacKinnon is online now  
Old
05-17-2012, 02:31 AM
  #44
BrickAHL
#AvaloungeRevolution
 
BrickAHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
Smart enough to outscore Stastny in his 2nd year, as well as Tavares. Matt also had a better 2 years to start their careers than Seguin and Parise. Despite being 3 years younger than the latter.

Duchene sucked in the beginning of last year, there's no denying that. I already stated that above. Injuries certainly played a part in it. Just as it looked like he was starting to get things together(November) 14pts in 12GP Sacco in a desperate move to shake up the team decided to move him to wing. You know because he plays a wingers game and better suited as winger. Worked greeat didn't it?

To recap: Yes, Duchene had a bad year but would it have lasted the whole year if it weren't for the injuries and Sacco using him as human guinea pig? If Duchene has another bad year despite playing full time at centre then I will be on the other side until then I'll give Matt the benefit of the doubt. Of course this has nothing to do with Pauly and his issues but this is how the debates about Stastny's ****** play usually ends.
I guess we will have to re-visit this in a year because right now this is pretty pointless arguing this because we have done it so many times and neither of our opinions have changed.

BrickAHL is offline  
Old
05-17-2012, 02:37 AM
  #45
Duchene2MacKinnon
71****70
 
Duchene2MacKinnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,928
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
I guess we will have to re-visit this in a year because right now this is pretty pointless arguing this because we have done it so many times and neither of our opinions have changed.
Yeah, pretty much. I honestly, have to stop debating about Stastny on here it goes nowhere. It's become stale and boring a long time ago.

BTW don't call me Ronaldy or Ronaldo. I am and forever will be D2M.

Duchene2MacKinnon is online now  
Old
05-17-2012, 12:25 PM
  #46
Bender
TheHockeyProspector
 
Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,090
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
Yeah, pretty much. I honestly, have to stop debating about Stastny on here it goes nowhere. It's become stale and boring a long time ago.

BTW don't call me Ronaldy or Ronaldo. I am and forever will be D2M.
You might want to add an 'e' to SMYTHE in your "Lundqvist for SMYTH" description unless you want him to win the Ryan Smyth trophy?

Bender is offline  
Old
05-17-2012, 01:13 PM
  #47
SoundwaveIsCharisma
Moderator
 
SoundwaveIsCharisma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Screw You Blaster
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,494
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SoundwaveIsCharisma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
You might want to add an 'e' to SMYTHE in your "Lundqvist for SMYTH" description unless you want him to win the Ryan Smyth trophy?
Clearly a trade proposal. Joel Lundqvist for Ryan Smyth.

SoundwaveIsCharisma is offline  
Old
05-17-2012, 01:50 PM
  #48
Bender
TheHockeyProspector
 
Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,090
vCash: 500
Joey Crabb

If the Avs lose one or both of Hejduk and Jones, I could see them signing a guy like Joey Crabb. He wouldn't necessarily be a guy who would contribute as a top-6 winger but more a solid 3rd line player who can contribute with some goals here and there. I've been impressed with him this season on the Leafs...he seems like a Shjon Podein kind of player with more offensive upside. At worst, he plays on the 3rd line next season and slots back to the 4th line after Kobasew leaves after his contract expires.

His stats have gotten progressively better at every level he's played at.

2002-03 Colorado College WCHA 35 4 4 8
2003-04 Colorado College WCHA 39 15 12 27
2004-05 Colorado College WCHA 42 16 15 31
2005-06 Colorado College WCHA 42 18 25 43
2006-07 Chicago Wolves AHL 63 7 15 22
2007-08 Chicago Wolves AHL 72 9 26 35
2008-09 Chicago Wolves AHL 42 15 14 29
2008-09 Atlanta Thrashers NHL 29 4 5 9
2009-10 Chicago Wolves AHL 79 24 29 53
2010-11 Toronto Marlies AHL 34 11 7 18
2010-11 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 48 3 12 15
2011-12 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 67 11 15 26
2011-12 Toronto Marlies AHL 9 7 8 15 7

His 11 goals would have led the Avs in bottom 6 forwards this year.

Anyways, just my 2 cents.

Bender is offline  
Old
05-17-2012, 02:01 PM
  #49
Freaky Styley
Registered User
 
Freaky Styley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
If the Avs lose one or both of Hejduk and Jones, I could see them signing a guy like Joey Crabb. He wouldn't necessarily be a guy who would contribute as a top-6 winger but more a solid 3rd line player who can contribute with some goals here and there. I've been impressed with him this season on the Leafs...he seems like a Shjon Podein kind of player with more offensive upside. At worst, he plays on the 3rd line next season and slots back to the 4th line after Kobasew leaves after his contract expires.

His stats have gotten progressively better at every level he's played at.

2002-03 Colorado College WCHA 35 4 4 8
2003-04 Colorado College WCHA 39 15 12 27
2004-05 Colorado College WCHA 42 16 15 31
2005-06 Colorado College WCHA 42 18 25 43
2006-07 Chicago Wolves AHL 63 7 15 22
2007-08 Chicago Wolves AHL 72 9 26 35
2008-09 Chicago Wolves AHL 42 15 14 29
2008-09 Atlanta Thrashers NHL 29 4 5 9
2009-10 Chicago Wolves AHL 79 24 29 53
2010-11 Toronto Marlies AHL 34 11 7 18
2010-11 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 48 3 12 15
2011-12 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 67 11 15 26
2011-12 Toronto Marlies AHL 9 7 8 15 7

His 11 goals would have led the Avs in bottom 6 forwards this year.

Anyways, just my 2 cents.
I was a fan of Crabb this year too. As you said, we would need to lose a winger for it to make sense and I would like him slotted on the 4th line, 3rd line when injuries occur. Too much depth isn't a bad thing. He is a guy like Hendricks who knows his role and plays it well.

Freaky Styley is offline  
Old
05-17-2012, 02:05 PM
  #50
Bender
TheHockeyProspector
 
Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,090
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freaky Styley View Post
I was a fan of Crabb this year too. As you said, we would need to lose a winger for it to make sense and I would like him slotted on the 4th line, 3rd line when injuries occur. Too much depth isn't a bad thing. He is a guy like Hendricks who knows his role and plays it well.
Yup! That's exactly right...I was actually going to mention Hendricks as a comparison. These are guys you win with, in my opinion. I can't see Kobasew 'out-seeding' him and that's why I'd give him a chance at more minutes on the 3rd line. But either way, he'd still work out well on the 4th line. I think he'd be a solid depth signing for sure.

Bender is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:29 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.