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Who's a better player: Saku Koivu or Tuomo Ruutu?

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Old
12-17-2004, 05:48 AM
  #1
kmad
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Who's a better player: Saku Koivu or Tuomo Ruutu?

Which Finnish player is better, right now: Tuomo Ruutu or Saku Koivu?

Tuomo Ruutu is an extremely confident scoring winger who can hit as well as Dallas Drake. He has great vision, great hands, and great hustle.

Saku Koivu is a great leader with good hands and an elite playmaking ability. Makes those around him better.

Koivu has the edge in speed, passing, defensive play and leadership.

Ruutu has the edge in shooting, hitting, and grit.

I have no doubt that Ruutu will be the better player by far in two years, but I think it's pretty close right now. I'd give the edge to Ruutu because players like him are harder to find and more valuable.

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12-17-2004, 06:05 AM
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Saku is the better one for now. Better composure and one of the most creative players in the league. Also probably around top-10 in vision in the league.

Tuomo is still fine-tuning his offensive tools.

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12-17-2004, 06:08 AM
  #3
Jason MacIsaac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattihp
Saku is the better one for now. Better composure and one of the most creative players in the league. Also probably around top-10 in vision in the league.

Tuomo is still fine-tuning his offensive tools.
Case and point.....Saku is the most underated 1st line centermen in the league bar none.

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12-17-2004, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattihp
Saku is the better one for now. Better composure and one of the most creative players in the league. Also probably around top-10 in vision in the league.

Tuomo is still fine-tuning his offensive tools.
Agreed.

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12-17-2004, 10:24 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Case and point.....Saku is the most underated 1st line centermen in the league bar none.
My thoughts exactly. Saku is so creative but he never played with someone able to complete his plays.

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12-17-2004, 10:24 AM
  #6
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Now, Koivu, then, Ruutuu.

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12-17-2004, 10:48 AM
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give koivu an elite winger and he'll be top 10 in scoring in the league

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12-17-2004, 11:06 AM
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Saku also shows his great professionalism by doing what the team needs most, play a two-way game which puts him at the risk of injury every time he is out on the ice. If he decided to play full out offensive fireball, he'd have 75 points or so every season, with second line wingers.

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12-17-2004, 11:20 AM
  #9
Vlad The Impaler
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I'd take Koivu right now.

Doubt very much he'd be top 10 scoring even with an "elite winger". His playmaking/creativity is overrated on this thread. He is a one trick pony and on top of that you can injure him by farting in his general direction. You won't get to the top 10 in scoring with such a profile very often.

He's still a damn good player but he never lived up to what I hoped.

And he has played with good players. He's getting a chance with Kovalev. He has played with his friend Mark Recchi before that for a good while. The net result is Mark Recchi became a better offensive player when he left Montreal as an aging veteran than he was in his prime with the Habs. That's food for thoughts.

Ruutu is probably going to become a better player than that.

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12-17-2004, 11:23 AM
  #10
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You can't say "If Koivu had a great winger". Great centre's are able to pad the stats of their wingers, such as Forsberg, Thornton, etc.

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12-17-2004, 11:24 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
I'd take Koivu right now.

Doubt very much he'd be top 10 scoring even with an "elite winger". His playmaking/creativity is overrated on this thread. He is a one trick pony and on top of that you can injure him by farting in his general direction. You won't get to the top 10 in scoring with such a profile very often.

He's still a damn good player but he never lived up to what I hoped.

And he has played with good players. He's getting a chance with Kovalev. He has played with his friend Mark Recchi before that for a good while. The net result is Mark Recchi became a better offensive player when he left Montreal as an aging veteran than he was in his prime with the Habs. That's food for thoughts.

Ruutu is probably going to become a better player than that.

First of all my friend didnt you see what Koivu and Kovalev did in the playoffs? As far as I'm concerned THEY were the ones who beat the bruins.. Theodore sucked in the first 5 games and Zednik is Zednik.

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12-17-2004, 11:46 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
First of all my friend didnt you see what Koivu and Kovalev did in the playoffs?
You're right, they were very good. They're very good players too (Kovalev would qualify as an elite talent IMO).

I still think all the knocks I mentioned apply and this is why Koivu will probably not get in the top 10 scoring. I would be very surprised if he did.

Koivu just doesn't strike me as being as great as many here seem to think.

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12-17-2004, 12:00 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
I'd take Koivu right now.

Doubt very much he'd be top 10 scoring even with an "elite winger". His playmaking/creativity is overrated on this thread. He is a one trick pony and on top of that you can injure him by farting in his general direction. You won't get to the top 10 in scoring with such a profile very often.

He's still a damn good player but he never lived up to what I hoped.

And he has played with good players. He's getting a chance with Kovalev. He has played with his friend Mark Recchi before that for a good while. The net result is Mark Recchi became a better offensive player when he left Montreal as an aging veteran than he was in his prime with the Habs. That's food for thoughts.

Ruutu is probably going to become a better player than that.

errrr... you honestly have no idea what ur talking about. this guy has played with 3rd liners most of his carreer. his highest point total ( 71 points ) had him playing with zednik and bulis all year. don't dare tell me that if you replaced bulis with kovalev he couldnt easily hit 80 - 85 pts. saku brings intangibles to the team and is one of the hardest working guys in the league. ya and the one elite winger theory has been proven in the playoffs when both saku and alex were leading the league in points after round 1. i didnt see the " best centers in the league" like mr. thornton putting up those kind of numbers.

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12-17-2004, 12:15 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
I'd take Koivu right now.

Doubt very much he'd be top 10 scoring even with an "elite winger". His playmaking/creativity is overrated on this thread. He is a one trick pony and on top of that you can injure him by farting in his general direction. You won't get to the top 10 in scoring with such a profile very often.

He's still a damn good player but he never lived up to what I hoped.

And he has played with good players. He's getting a chance with Kovalev. He has played with his friend Mark Recchi before that for a good while. The net result is Mark Recchi became a better offensive player when he left Montreal as an aging veteran than he was in his prime with the Habs. That's food for thoughts.

Ruutu is probably going to become a better player than that.
Sometimes, I really wonder if you watch hockey at all. Seriously... By the way, could you explain to me why Saku is always one of the best player on the ice, no matter who he's playing against? We get the chance to watch him play against all the nhl's stars and he most of the time end up being the best player on the ice. I'll agree that he has a below-average shot (poor velocity and release) (and he stills manages to score 20 goals and that makes him one of our best goalscorer lol), but he's got elite skills in about every other aspect of the game. Saku had two slumps (small) in his whole career too. That's very little too. Heck, even if you care to reply, you're wrong all the way about Saku. I'm asking myself if you even watch him play.

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12-17-2004, 12:16 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie_D
i didnt see the " best centers in the league" like mr. thornton putting up those kind of numbers.
sure, Saku kept him in check

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12-17-2004, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ax²+bx+c
Sometimes, I really wonder if you watch hockey at all. Seriously... By the way, could you explain to me why Saku is always one of the best player on the ice, no matter who he's playing against?
First of all, I think that's hyperbole. Besides, Teemu Selanne was the "best player on the ice" when the Sharks losts to the Avs in game 7 of the playoffs a year ago, but ended up not scoring a single point. I'd rather have a player be effective on the ice than just play well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by you
We get the chance to watch him play against all the nhl's stars and he most of the time end up being the best player on the ice. I'll agree that he has a below-average shot (poor velocity and release) (and he stills manages to score 20 goals and that makes him one of our best goalscorer lol), but he's got elite skills in about every other aspect of the game.
20 goals for a first line center isn't all that impressive. He's also injury-prone and doesn't bring a physical presence to the ice. His a straight-up playmaker, pure and simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by you
Saku had two slumps (small) in his whole career too. That's very little too. Heck, even if you care to reply, you're wrong all the way about Saku. I'm asking myself if you even watch him play.
He's a good player, but I can think of at least 10 centers that are better than him off the top of my head. The top 30% of the league does not "elite" status make.


S L

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12-17-2004, 12:53 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by 19bruins19
You can't say "If Koivu had a great winger". Great centre's are able to pad the stats of their wingers, such as Forsberg, Thornton, etc.
Um, people always say this and I just don't get it.

He played with Zednik most of the time. Zednik had 20+ goals last season. There is no way Zednik would score 20+ goals with anyone else on the team.

If you look at everyone who plays with Saku, you'd see he does pad their stats. When Perreault started playing on the line with Saku, you saw him scoring a goal almost every game. Hell, even Sundstrom was scoring a goal per game playing on that line. Bulis is another example.

Everyone who plays on Saku's line has their stats padded. You don't notice it because the team in general is defensively minded and does not score many points as a whole. The points are very spread out on the team.

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12-17-2004, 12:56 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by waffledave
Um, people always say this and I just don't get it.

He played with Zednik most of the time. Zednik had 20+ goals last season. There is no way Zednik would score 20+ goals with anyone else on the team.

If you look at everyone who plays with Saku, you'd see he does pad their stats. When Perreault started playing on the line with Saku, you saw him scoring a goal almost every game. Hell, even Sundstrom was scoring a goal per game playing on that line. Bulis is another example.

Everyone who plays on Saku's line has their stats padded. You don't notice it because the team in general is defensively minded and does not score many points as a whole. The points are very spread out on the team.
true that

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12-17-2004, 01:04 PM
  #19
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hey... to end all this debate... why don't we ask Joe Thornton if saku is a true number 1 center. the last two playoff meetings between these two teams leads me to believe joe thinks he is....

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12-17-2004, 01:04 PM
  #20
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Koivu also shows up when it counts. He is an exceptional big game player. Time and time again, in the playoffs and at international tournaments, when his team needs him, he steps up.

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12-17-2004, 01:07 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Latin
First of all, I think that's hyperbole. Besides, Teemu Selanne was the "best player on the ice" when the Sharks losts to the Avs in game 7 of the playoffs a year ago, but ended up not scoring a single point. I'd rather have a player be effective on the ice than just play well.




20 goals for a first line center isn't all that impressive. He's also injury-prone and doesn't bring a physical presence to the ice. His a straight-up playmaker, pure and simple.



He's a good player, but I can think of at least 10 centers that are better than him off the top of my head. The top 30% of the league does not "elite" status make.


S L
You lost credibility on this post when you said Saku dosen't bring a physical presence, you obviously have never seen him play, you probably think that because he's small and europeean, he's soft, which couldn't be further from the truth, the reason he's so injury prone is because he's so rambuctious on the ice, he throws his weight around and takes on bigger players all the time, i've seen him layout a few players over his career, if Koivu could learn to pick his spots a bit better, he wouldn't be injured as much, he's a very tough player for his size, aks fans from the Bruins if Koivu is physical, i think even they will tell you that he dosen't back down from anyone!

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12-17-2004, 01:19 PM
  #22
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Koivu by a mile.

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12-17-2004, 01:24 PM
  #23
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SHUT UP ABOUT THE WINGERS!

Knuble was a FOURTH liner before playing with Thornton. He scored 30 goals that year, mainly because of Thornton. NO matter who is on Koivu's line, if he is supposed ot be a great playmaker, than it doesn't matter who his wingers are. Players like Forsberg, Sakic, Thornton, etc. were centres who made the players around them BETTER.

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12-17-2004, 01:26 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie_D
hey... to end all this debate... why don't we ask Joe Thornton if saku is a true number 1 center. the last two playoff meetings between these two teams leads me to believe joe thinks he is....
Thornton certainly owned him in the World Cup of Hockey in the final game.....

Yes, I know Koivu had an injury in the playoffs, but Thornton suffered his injury before the playoffs (against Washington) which threw him off his game. The other series against Montreal, he had a point per game, notching 6 points in 6 games.

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12-17-2004, 01:27 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by waffledave
Um, people always say this and I just don't get it.

He played with Zednik most of the time. Zednik had 20+ goals last season. There is no way Zednik would score 20+ goals with anyone else on the team.

If you look at everyone who plays with Saku, you'd see he does pad their stats. When Perreault started playing on the line with Saku, you saw him scoring a goal almost every game. Hell, even Sundstrom was scoring a goal per game playing on that line. Bulis is another example.

Everyone who plays on Saku's line has their stats padded. You don't notice it because the team in general is defensively minded and does not score many points as a whole. The points are very spread out on the team.
Then it doesn't matter if he has an elite winger or Zednik. Plus, Zednik is better than Knuble and look what Knuble did. A FOURTH liner gett second line numbers.

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