HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Anaheim Ducks
Notices

AHL Affiliate Discussion: Norfolk Admirals

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-05-2012, 05:02 AM
  #926
quentez
#8 Teemu Legend
 
quentez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Country: Norway
Posts: 2,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradJohnson View Post
Caputi was never injured. I spoke to coach on this and he informed "Luca is a seasoned player with alot of skill, that being said we have alot of talent on this team and finding a spot where everyone fits in can be difficult at times" "Luca will get his chance and I believe he'll step in nicely"
Wasn't aware of that. Thanks

quentez is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 05:29 AM
  #927
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,059
vCash: 500
Lindholm has the second highest +/- on our team with +5.

Exit Dose is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 07:36 AM
  #928
Admiral Al
Registered User
 
Admiral Al's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 152
vCash: 500
So with the word being that the NHL will be starting up on Dec 1st with a 66 game schedule, where does that leave him as far as playing, I heard that he will get called up for the max games ( I think it is 8, but that could change since this is a shortened season, but he will be going up as this is why he signed to play in the AHL.

Admiral Al is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 07:39 AM
  #929
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,059
vCash: 500
I think giving him a cup of coffee might not be a bad idea. Sit someone in the press box while we see if he's ready.

Exit Dose is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 09:25 AM
  #930
Professor John Frink
Registered User
 
Professor John Frink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 2,678
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Professor John Frink
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I think giving him a cup of coffee might not be a bad idea. Sit someone in the press box while we see if he's ready.
Right now there are 8 defensemen on the Ducks roster I would give NHL games to before him. I see no point in playing him in games just because. He is only 18. It's crazy to sit an NHL vet just to see if a kid can play in the league at 18.

This isn't like Fowlers season where the Ducks had no choice but to play him. There is actually a little bit of depth on the blueline.

Professor John Frink is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 09:37 AM
  #931
TheJoeMan
In Bob We Trust
 
TheJoeMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,582
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor John Frink View Post
Right now there are 8 defensemen on the Ducks roster I would give NHL games to before him. I see no point in playing him in games just because. He is only 18. It's crazy to sit an NHL vet just to see if a kid can play in the league at 18.

This isn't like Fowlers season where the Ducks had no choice but to play him. There is actually a little bit of depth on the blueline.
8? I count 7: Beauchemin, Fowler, Sbisa, Lydman, Allen, Souray and Guenin. One of those first 6 have to get hurt for even Vatanen to get a chance unless someone is traded or hurt long term. Having said that I agree with you about Lindholm. But if we have a couple guys out I can't see why he wouldn't get a call up, age be damned.

TheJoeMan is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 09:53 AM
  #932
Force951
Registered User
 
Force951's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 2,340
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
8? I count 7: Beauchemin, Fowler, Sbisa, Lydman, Allen, Souray and Guenin. One of those first 6 have to get hurt for even Vatanen to get a chance unless someone is traded or hurt long term. Having said that I agree with you about Lindholm. But if we have a couple guys out I can't see why he wouldn't get a call up, age be damned.
My guess is he was counting Clark, who is ready for some games.

Force951 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 10:32 AM
  #933
Ducks DVM
Moderator
There is no grunion
 
Ducks DVM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Long Beach, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,306
vCash: 500
One issue with a shortened season is there is less time to make up for lost games, so teams may be a lot less likely to give a rookie 8 games while experimenting. Especially with a shortened training camp - they need to let the pairings develop done chemistry immediately.

Ducks DVM is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 11:01 AM
  #934
TheJoeMan
In Bob We Trust
 
TheJoeMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,582
vCash: 500
What's this 8 game thing about? Lindholm is playing in the AHL which means this season counts on his contract. My hope is he plays in the whole year in Norfolk because that means our D has stayed healthy all season (provided this season is actually going to happen). I can live with not seeing him in Anaheim until next season. Sami on the other hand I'd like to see sooner rather than later.

TheJoeMan is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 11:07 AM
  #935
Elvs
Registered User
 
Elvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pitea
Country: Sweden
Posts: 6,663
vCash: 500
There's also Smaby and Hendry.. Who have some NHL experience already.

Elvs is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 12:01 PM
  #936
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
 
Hockey Duckie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: southern cal
Posts: 2,742
vCash: 500
There's no real need to rush either Lindholm or Vatanen, both of whom are still acclimating themselves to the NA ice. Lindholm needs to work on his 1v1 as he's being made look silly during those times. Fortunately, this doesn't happen often as Lindholm plays a very good, poised game most of the time. Although Vatanen is still scoring, his defense has lapsed the past two to three games. If he's struggling at the AHL level, can you imagine how much more difficult of a time Vatanen will have against NHL players all the time?

As for Guenin going up to the NHL club, I'm not so sure he'd be the 7th NHL defenseman. Right now, Guenin is the Ads captain, I think, and paired with Lindholm. I can see Hendry being promoted to be the 7th defensemen and leave the ducklings to grow.

Etem will have to develop faster because I believe Holland and Palmieri will be promoted to the NHL club. I'm already feeling bad for the AHL affiliate because of the top flight talent they will be losing offensively.

Hockey Duckie is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 03:18 PM
  #937
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,059
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor John Frink View Post
Right now there are 8 defensemen on the Ducks roster I would give NHL games to before him. I see no point in playing him in games just because. He is only 18. It's crazy to sit an NHL vet just to see if a kid can play in the league at 18.

This isn't like Fowlers season where the Ducks had no choice but to play him. There is actually a little bit of depth on the blueline.
If you think it's 'just because' then you haven't been watching Norfolk.

Exit Dose is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 03:20 PM
  #938
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,059
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Force951 View Post
My guess is he was counting Clark, who is ready for some games.
He really isn't.

Exit Dose is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 03:25 PM
  #939
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,059
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
What's this 8 game thing about? Lindholm is playing in the AHL which means this season counts on his contract. My hope is he plays in the whole year in Norfolk because that means our D has stayed healthy all season (provided this season is actually going to happen). I can live with not seeing him in Anaheim until next season. Sami on the other hand I'd like to see sooner rather than later.
I think people are mistaking the rules for juniors as applying to all prospects.

Exit Dose is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 04:43 PM
  #940
joe89
#5
 
joe89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Sweden
Posts: 16,686
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
What's this 8 game thing about? Lindholm is playing in the AHL which means this season counts on his contract. My hope is he plays in the whole year in Norfolk because that means our D has stayed healthy all season (provided this season is actually going to happen). I can live with not seeing him in Anaheim until next season. Sami on the other hand I'd like to see sooner rather than later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I think people are mistaking the rules for juniors as applying to all prospects.
Probably this, http://capgeek.com/faq/how-does-an-e...contract-slide

Quote:
If a player aged 18 or 19 signs an entry-level contract with a club (with his age calculated on Sept. 15 of the year he signed the contract) but does not play in at least 10 NHL games, the contract will "slide" or be extended one year. The extension does not apply if the player turns 20 between Sept. 16 and Dec. 31 in the year he signed the contract.
Depending on the contract's structure, the player's cap hit can be affected either by an increase or a decrease. Players who sign at age 18 can have their contract extended (or "slide") two seasons.
"Underagers" playing in the pros can have their ELC slide. Look at Tatar with Detroit, he's in his fourth pro year now but is still on an ELC this year and next.

joe89 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 04:57 PM
  #941
Elvs
Registered User
 
Elvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pitea
Country: Sweden
Posts: 6,663
vCash: 500
Sure, you don't know if Lindholm is ready for the NHL until you've actually tried... But I just don't see any reason to rush him and risk ruining his momentum when there are defensemen in Norfolk that have NHL experience: Guenin (32 games), Smaby (122 games) and Hendry (129 games+15 playoff games).

The only way Lindholm should be ahead of those is if managment really feels that he would be an asset on the blueline, and not just a roster filler. Best AHL player doesn't always mean most ready for a call up. Mark Barbeiro, defenseman of the year in the AHL last season, is four years older than Lindholm and hasn't played a single game in the NHL to this date.

Elvs is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 05:37 PM
  #942
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,059
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvstrand View Post
Sure, you don't know if Lindholm is ready for the NHL until you've actually tried... But I just don't see any reason to rush him and risk ruining his momentum when there are defensemen in Norfolk that have NHL experience: Guenin (32 games), Smaby (122 games) and Hendry (129 games+15 playoff games).

The only way Lindholm should be ahead of those is if managment really feels that he would be an asset on the blueline, and not just a roster filler. Best AHL player doesn't always mean most ready for a call up. Mark Barbeiro, defenseman of the year in the AHL last season, is four years older than Lindholm and hasn't played a single game in the NHL to this date.
Hendry and Smaby are playing to the level of the league that they're in. Guenin is still playing like a guy that would be sitting in the press box, like he was for most of last season. Right now, the only guy - with NHL experience - that is playing like someone that deserves a look this year is Ryan Parent, who is on an AHL try out contract.

As for the other points you've made, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that I mean he needs to play around 5 to 10 games. The reality is that I'm thinking more along the lines of the look we gave to Clark last year.

People seem to be forgetting that Lindholm didn't come to the US to play in the AHL.

Exit Dose is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 06:04 PM
  #943
Elvs
Registered User
 
Elvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pitea
Country: Sweden
Posts: 6,663
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Hendry and Smaby are playing to the level of the league that they're in. Guenin is still playing like a guy that would be sitting in the press box, like he was for most of last season. Right now, the only guy - with NHL experience - that is playing like someone that deserves a look this year is Ryan Parent, who is on an AHL try out contract.

As for the other points you've made, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that I mean he needs to play around 5 to 10 games. The reality is that I'm thinking more along the lines of the look we gave to Clark last year.

People seem to be forgetting that Lindholm didn't come to the US to play in the AHL.
And Nate Thompson is producing like your average player in the ECHL and Matt Duchene isn't any better than Jason Krog in the SEL right now. In the end, it's what they do in the NHL that matters, obviously, and so far Guenin/Smaby/Hendry have all proved they can handle sheltered minutes in case of injuries, just making the easy play (boards out) in the defensive zone. In the AHL they are asked to do more than that.

Anyways, I still agree with you. I'm not opposed at all to see Lindholm getting a couple of games with the Ducks, especially if it's late in the season if the Ducks are out of the playoff picture and Lindholm bascially has a full year in the AHL in his backpack. I just don't want to see him becoming a player that goes up and down several times during the season.

Elvs is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 06:18 PM
  #944
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,059
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvstrand View Post
And Nate Thompson is producing like your average player in the ECHL and Matt Duchene isn't any better than Jason Krog in the SEL right now. In the end, it's what they do in the NHL that matters, obviously, and so far Guenin/Smaby/Hendry have all proved they can handle sheltered minutes in case of injuries, just making the easy play (boards out) in the defensive zone. In the AHL they are asked to do more than that.

Anyways, I still agree with you. I'm not opposed at all to see Lindholm getting a couple of games with the Ducks, especially if it's late in the season if the Ducks are out of the playoff picture and Lindholm bascially has a full year in the AHL in his backpack. I just don't want to see him becoming a player that goes up and down several times during the season.
It has nothing to do with production. We don't call people up on that basis. Players get tapped because they see something that a player can contribute. That's why we saw a guy like Elliott picked over guys like Barrie, last year with the Avs.

It sounds like we made some promises in order to get Lindholm to leave Rogle. It also sounds like if this is looking like a developmental year for him, that he'll be heading back there to finish out the season. Vatanen is the one that committed to playing in North America. We were not told that the same was true for Lindholm.

Exit Dose is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 06:38 PM
  #945
Elvs
Registered User
 
Elvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pitea
Country: Sweden
Posts: 6,663
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
It has nothing to do with production. We don't call people up on that basis. Players get tapped because they see something that a player can contribute. That's why we saw a guy like Elliott picked over guys like Barrie, last year with the Avs.
That's my point. All NHL'ers aren't going to be anything special on lower levels, which is the case with Guenin, Smaby and Hendry. I'm saying that if Lindholm is just a roster filler in the NHL at this point in his career, you might as well call up one of those three instead, because they've shown they can handle it. Who knows, maybe Lindholm is already more than just a roster filler at the highest level, but unfortunately we didn't get any preseason to find out about that. But again, I'm all for giving him a small taste of it late in the season, which is what you are suggesting anyways.


Last edited by Elvs: 11-09-2012 at 06:43 PM.
Elvs is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 07:00 PM
  #946
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,059
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvstrand View Post
That's my point. All NHL'ers aren't going to be anything special on lower levels, which is the case with Guenin, Smaby and Hendry. I'm saying that if Lindholm is just a roster filler in the NHL at this point in his career, you might as well call up one of those three instead, because they've shown they can handle it. Who knows, maybe Lindholm is already more than just a roster filler at the highest level, but unfortunately we didn't get any preseason to find out about that. But again, I'm all for giving him a small taste of it late in the season, which is what you are suggesting anyways.
We didn't sign Hendry to play in the NHL. Smaby isn't there because he's waiting for the season to start. At this point in time, Guenin is probably the only one of those three with any shot of coming up, and that's probably in the role of a #7. If the effort those three are putting in is indicative of them just biding their time, then none of them are coming up when the season starts. Guys like RNH and Eberle have the liberty to play like that. People like Smaby and Hendry aren't going to get that treatment because they played some games in the NHL at some point in the past. Those guys didn't get the shots that they have by not being anything special at the lower levels, just as Elliott didn't get his shot by being just another player. My point was that they aren't favoring players based on the stat sheet. When I say that guys like Hendry and Smaby are playing to the level that they're at, it means that they currently aren't showing anything that would warrant their promotion, outside of desperation because there was no one better.

Exit Dose is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 03:49 AM
  #947
Elvs
Registered User
 
Elvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pitea
Country: Sweden
Posts: 6,663
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
We didn't sign Hendry to play in the NHL. Smaby isn't there because he's waiting for the season to start. At this point in time, Guenin is probably the only one of those three with any shot of coming up, and that's probably in the role of a #7. If the effort those three are putting in is indicative of them just biding their time, then none of them are coming up when the season starts. Guys like RNH and Eberle have the liberty to play like that. People like Smaby and Hendry aren't going to get that treatment because they played some games in the NHL at some point in the past. Those guys didn't get the shots that they have by not being anything special at the lower levels, just as Elliott didn't get his shot by being just another player. My point was that they aren't favoring players based on the stat sheet. When I say that guys like Hendry and Smaby are playing to the level that they're at, it means that they currently aren't showing anything that would warrant their promotion, outside of desperation because there was no one better.
If not for injuries, Smaby would likely have seen a few games in the NHL last year. There's only a year and half ago Smaby and Hendry played a significant amount of games in the NHL, that's not "at some point". Hendry was a 7th defenseman on a Stanley Cup champion and both have more impressive track records than Guenin in the NHL. Sure, Guenin is in front of them on the depth chart right now and likely Smaby/Hendry won't see time with the Ducks unless they run into multiple injuries or Guenin struggles when he's in the lineup. But if Hendry playing the whole season in Norfolk was a given, regardless of how good he plays there, he would have been signed by Norfolk, not on a 2-way contract by the Ducks.

Again, it's not always the one who is playing the best in the AHL that gets the call up. Coaches call up players they think can fill a certain role, and Guenin/Smaby/Hendry have all handled that easy, boards out-role well enough before. If those guys are invisible when in the lineup, that usually means they've done their job. You can't judge their ability to play the boards out-role in the NHL based on their play in the Norfolk, because they don't play the same role in the AHL. If Lindholm is next after Guenin on the depth chart, that makes him the first call up as Guenin likely will be up with the big club. When Vatanen or Lindholm gets called up it should be because BB thinks they might be ready to make an impact of some degree, instead of just hoping they'll be invisible, when there are other players in the sytem who have experience from playing the invisible role. I'm not opposed to give him a couple of games at the end of the year though, as a motivational factor for 13/14.


Last edited by Elvs: 11-10-2012 at 04:45 AM.
Elvs is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 04:46 AM
  #948
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,059
vCash: 500
Scouts and coaches do not evaluate players on the basis of being 'invisible'. That cliche is not how it actually works. They actually focus on how a player is playing his position. Players do not end up on the pairings they are by accident.

I suspect that you might be defining playing the best as being somehow related to statistics, which is not what I'm saying will play a role. Stats are incidental, though sometimes they correspond to the need they're looking to address.

Exit Dose is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 04:58 AM
  #949
Elvs
Registered User
 
Elvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pitea
Country: Sweden
Posts: 6,663
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Scouts and coaches do not evaluate players on the basis of being 'invisible'. That cliche is not how it actually works. They actually focus on how a player is playing his position. Players do not end up on the pairings they are by accident.

I suspect that you might be defining playing the best as being somehow related to statistics, which is not what I'm saying will play a role. Stats are incidental, though sometimes they correspond to the need they're looking to address.
Hendry, Guenin or Smaby are hardly impressive on the stat sheet, so I don't know why you think I would want to call them up because of their stats. If Lindholm is currently the best defenseman in Norfolk (and that has nothing to with stats), that doesn't have to mean that he's better suited than Guenin, Smaby, Hendry or Parent for a Brookbank/DiPenta role in the NHL.


Last edited by Elvs: 11-10-2012 at 05:06 AM.
Elvs is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 05:13 AM
  #950
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,059
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvstrand View Post
Hendry, Guenin or Smaby are hardly impressive on the stat sheet, so I don't know why you think I would want to call them up because of their stats. If Lindholm is currently the best defenseman in Norfolk (and that has nothing to with stats), that doesn't have to mean that he's better suited than Guenin, Smaby, Hendry or Parent for a Brookbank/DiPenta role in the NHL.
Was anyone arguing that Lindholm would be there because he's like Brookbank?

Exit Dose is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:28 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.