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The issue with Canada at World Hockey Championship?

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Old
05-17-2012, 08:52 AM
  #76
Marc the Habs Fan
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I knew we were in trouble as soon as we hired Sutter this year. The guy's track record handling pros is lousy at this point.

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Old
05-17-2012, 08:53 AM
  #77
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The issue at the U18s is the USA have an advantage over every other country because their team plays together all year, goes to school together, and train together. It's like a family. Other teams are thrown together.

Canada still does well at the WJC even though their best players that are eligible to play are in the NHL. See Seguin, Skinner, and Nugent-Hopkins this year.

In the Worlds, no one cares and the players don't go.

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05-17-2012, 08:54 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
I agree, but Canadian hockey fan attitudes are reflected in how the team is built and how the players treat it. It isn't considered important, so Hockey Canada can use it as a team building exercise. If you start demanding more, perhaps you will get more commitment, like with the U-20s. The U-20s used to be just like the U-18s, but now you have kids crying about not making the team.
Exactly, which is why I don't understand this organization we have. I don't want to make any correlations to football (soccer), but the federations of the respective countries take the u-17, u-18, u-20 and mens all in the same serious vein, which is competitiveness and as a commitment to championship team building. Hockey Canada needs to seriously re-evaluate themselves.

If you ask me, I think USA's Hockey approach to commitment of championships teams is reflective to their approach at all levels. Maybe they will never be as strong as us, in terms of skill. However, as an organization, I think they have vastly modernized themselves.

If you take a look at how they approach the U17, U18, AND U20, Olympics and now I think how they have come to the Worlds. I'm impressed how USA Hockey is approaching hockey at all levels, including their grass roots, coaches, and all that stuff.

Canada, they just seem to expect farm boys picking up a stick and blades, going to the CHL, picking la creme de la creme, and focussing just on U20 and the Olympics.

It's an outdated approach in my opinion. If it is flawed, eventually it will start showing itself. I think it already is starting to show. The problem with Canada is arrogance.

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Old
05-17-2012, 08:54 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by ViD View Post
So, Crosby is an untouchable prima that can do whatever he wants? You gotta be tough on decisions if you want the players to take it seriously.

I would be fine if Russian coach decided not to take any player to Sochi games if they were never coming to play at WHC without a good reason
So if Ovechkin, Malkin, Semin, Radulov, Volchenkov, Kovalchuk, Voynov and Kulikov all missed the WHC in 2013 for injuries or fatigue after the NHL season, weren't allowed to play in the Olympics, and Russia lost every game, you'd be okay with that? That's pretty much what Canada would be doing if they implemented that policy.

Canada uses the tournament as the cap stone of its development program. A few veterans and lots of younger players that are being groomed for the Olympics, which, I think we all can agree, is the ultimate goal of any national hockey team. That's why they don't get bent out of shape over the big guns missing the Worlds.

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05-17-2012, 08:55 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by BBB24 View Post
My opinion is as simple as the politics that play out in Hockey Canada. Hard to believe that at this level it happens, I point to a WHL defenseman playing, nothing against Murray but really, if Lowe wanted to scout Murray, go spend time watching him during the WHL season. Does anyone for a minute believe this kid had it over an NHL dman, not likely. Leave Lowe and the rest of the Oiler loser brass home next time. When Hockey Canada start picking the best players AVAILABLE at the time, they will have better results. I am cetainly not blaming Murray for this result, however, not going with someone Lowe wants to see at a high level before the Oilers decide on thier draft selection would have been the way to go. Add another experienced dman and leave RNH home, bring some experienced vets (yes there are some who were not asked that were better choices).I also believe that other countries are catching up, which is great for the game and happy to see it.
I agree with that. Selection again was horrible. Spezza called and wanted to come, and Hockey Canada told him no. Are you telling me that they would have rather had a guy like Ted Purcell over him? No disrespect to a guy like Purcell or a Burrows, but they basically told him that they do not need him. Absolutely nonsense. Spezza would have made a difference with his playmaking. However, full merit to Slovakia. They showed up, took the game seriously and got the win.

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05-17-2012, 08:57 AM
  #81
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The WHC gets basically zero play here in Canada because no one really cares about it.

I watch a lot of hockey and I've watched about 30 minutes combined of the WHC. I'm willing to bet there are a lot of people in the same boat.

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Old
05-17-2012, 08:57 AM
  #82
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What the hell? are you serious?
You would rank the Spengler Cup higher?

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05-17-2012, 08:58 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Mehar View Post
I agree with that. Selection again was horrible. Spezza called and wanted to come, and Hockey Canada told him no. Are you telling me that they would have rather had a guy like Ted Purcell over him? No disrespect to a guy like Purcell or a Burrows, but they basically told him that they do not need him. Absolutely nonsense. Spezza would have made a difference with his playmaking. However, full merit to Slovakia. They showed up, took the game seriously and got the win.
Actually I don't think Burrows or Purcell should be dropped. They should have dropped a player like Nugent-Hopkins for Spezza, who lets face it, had the best year of any of the Canadian centers except arguably Tavares.

That one makes no sense.

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05-17-2012, 09:00 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
Ok, fair enough. That's one tournament they won 31 years ago. The poster I quoted still sounds ridiculously incompetent though, seeing as how Russia's international hockey accomplishments pale in comparison to Canada's. The latter has won three best on best tournaments in the past decade. Russia? Not so much.
Yes that's their last "best on best" tournament win. So it's been a tough run for Russian hockey fans. Then again, if you buy the home ice advantage, the odds have been stacked against them

No excuses in two years though. Should be fun.

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05-17-2012, 09:01 AM
  #85
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This thread is a bunch of molarky don't be ridiculous. Canada is 14-0-1 the past 2 seasons at the Worlds. Unforunate circumstances led to a qf against the russians in 2011 which could have gone either way and today which was unforunate set of bounces to an incredibly inferior slovak team (Could have been a rout had the team converted on all the chances in the second) Will this have any impact on the Olympics? Other then the fact we won't have last change during the preliminary round games, not really. It's a whole other tournament that has no relevance whatsoever to this tournament, and the Olympic format suits the team better since your constantly ready to play each and every night and you don't waste games vs inferior opponents that shouldn't be playing Hockey. All in all this just proved that in international tournaments experience matters on this stage and I expect only one or two of the youngsters will be ready come 2014 and it's a toss up between JT and Ebs and Skinner, take your guess.

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05-17-2012, 09:01 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
The WHC gets basically zero play here in Canada because no one really cares about it.

I watch a lot of hockey and I've watched about 30 minutes combined of the WHC. I'm willing to bet there are a lot of people in the same boat.
It's in the interest of Hockey Canada to keep up to date with changing trends and competitions despite the interest of Canadian Hockey fans. What just because you don't watch it, players shouldn't attend? No.

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05-17-2012, 09:01 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilyeu View Post
Exactly, which is why I don't understand this organization we have. I don't want to make any correlations to football (soccer), but the federations of the respective countries take the u-17, u-18, u-20 and mens all in the same serious vein, which is competitiveness and as a commitment to championship team building. Hockey Canada needs to seriously re-evaluate themselves.

If you ask me, I think USA's Hockey approach to commitment of championships teams is reflective to their approach at all levels. Maybe they will never be as strong as us, in terms of skill. However, as an organization, I think they have vastly modernized themselves.

If you take a look at how they approach the U17, U18, AND U20, Olympics and now I think how they have come to the Worlds. I'm impressed how USA Hockey is approaching hockey at all levels, including their grass roots, coaches, and all that stuff.

Canada, they just seem to expect farm boys picking up a stick and blades, going to the CHL, picking la creme de la creme, and focussing just on U20 and the Olympics.

It's an outdated approach in my opinion. If it is flawed, eventually it will start showing itself. I think it already is starting to show. The problem with Canada is arrogance.

The US takes a similar approach to the Worlds that Canada does. It's mostly younger players u25 and the veterans who want to come and fit the mold.

It's been a much worse run for us at this tournament than for you. I promise.

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Old
05-17-2012, 09:02 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsrule4eva3089 View Post
This thread is a bunch of molarky don't be ridiculous. Canada is 14-0-1 the past 2 seasons at the Worlds. Unforunate circumstances led to a qf against the russians in 2011 which could have gone either way and today which was unforunate set of bounces to an incredibly inferior slovak team (Could have been a rout had the team converted on all the chances in the second) Will this have any impact on the Olympics? Other then the fact we won't have last change during the preliminary round games, not really. It's a whole other tournament that has no relevance whatsoever to this tournament, and the Olympic format suits the team better since your constantly ready to play each and every night and you don't waste games vs inferior opponents that shouldn't be playing Hockey. All in all this just proved that in international tournaments experience matters on this stage and I expect only one or two of the youngsters will be ready come 2014 and it's a toss up between JT and Ebs and Skinner, take your guess.
Canada is 14-0-1??

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Old
05-17-2012, 09:02 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by ViD View Post
Canada has not been anything epic at the Olympics as well, remember they only won on NA soil basically playing at home. They failed miserably outside of their continent
Dude, stop embarrassing Russian fans! Team Canada destroyed Team Russia in Vancouver, and you are talking about nothing epic and about failing miserably?

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05-17-2012, 09:05 AM
  #90
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Its not Canadian hockey per se, it must be a management problem. Canada have enough deapth to win WHC on a yearly basis. Its hard to believe that Canadian hockey players are the only ones in the world who dont take pride representing their country.

The best teams in WHC are at least as talented than any NHL team but hockey is different on big ice. Teams are there assambled for a short time and its not easy to get the best out of them. If you look at european teams they do have continuous contact with players, perhaps have meetings with them in the off season, players know how the team is supposed to play, they played together since juniors, and this might be the factor that makes European teams get more out of their talents than Canada.

Just my take on the situation.

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05-17-2012, 09:05 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Reini29 View Post
I dont know how anyone can use the "we didnt have our best players" as an excuse. This team was more than enough for a gold medal but when you dont care about the tournament as much as others it will show in the result.

Its simple as that. Nothing to take away from Slovaks, but the fact is if this game was stanley cup playoff game Canada would've ran over them.

Its a saying that if you put up a 90% effort you'll get a 10% result, that sums it up.
IMO this is true.. They certainly have the material, but something keeps the players from playing with 100 % effort, instead 90 % effort is not enough..



Besides, if it was up to me, I would make some changes in the tournament frequency.. like make it every 2/3/4 years.. Perhaps the north american NHL players would start to appreciate it bit more as well.

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05-17-2012, 09:05 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
The US takes a similar approach to the Worlds that Canada does.
I think that may be changing though.

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05-17-2012, 09:05 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Ilyeu View Post
Yet you're up at 9 am, checking the results and posting here.
what are you trying to say, monsieur?

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05-17-2012, 09:06 AM
  #94
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Saying you don't care or all that best-on-best crap is just nonsense.

Besides Canada's roster at this years WC was just as good as anyone, in one-game-elimination anything can happen really.

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05-17-2012, 09:11 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Ilyeu View Post
I think that may be changing though.
Maybe

Don't forget that two years ago we were in the relegation round of this tournament. And our U-20s have two straight years of underwhelming to embarrassing efforts.

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05-17-2012, 09:15 AM
  #96
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Canada fans, stop making up excuses. You were beaten by the better team today. Ryan Getzlaf was shown up for what he is, a poor captain, and an arrogant one at that. Brent Sutter turned out to be a lousy coach. It's his atrocious game plan for the final third scuppered Canada. To think, sitting back and protecting a tiny lead against whom? Sweden? Russia? A mediocre Slovakia! Unimaginable.

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Old
05-17-2012, 09:18 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Anderson9 View Post
Canada fans, stop making up excuses. You were beaten by the better team today. Ryan Getzlaf was shown up for what he is, a poor captain, and an arrogant one at that. Brent Sutter turned out to be a lousy coach. It's his atrocious game plan for the final third scuppered Canada. To think, sitting back and protecting a tiny lead against whom? Sweden? Russia? A mediocre Slovakia! Unimaginable.
Who is making excuses we lost to a better team it happens. When we send our best players we are usually the top team that it also true I don't think anyone is upset at this point.

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Old
05-17-2012, 09:19 AM
  #98
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I'm more concerned about us not doing well at the wjc than the u-18 or the WC. For u-18 and WC we usually don't have our best players there. The wjc is more of a concern because those are supposed to be our best players at that age group (save for the very few who are already in the nhl)...so our inability to dominate is a problem.

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Old
05-17-2012, 09:20 AM
  #99
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I rank wc before Stanley cup unless not Detroit red wings are in final. I dont give crap for other teams. In wc its your country that are playing, and its fun too see other teams progressing. A short and fun tournament too watch

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05-17-2012, 09:27 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderson9 View Post
Canada fans, stop making up excuses. You were beaten by the better team today. Ryan Getzlaf was shown up for what he is, a poor captain, and an arrogant one at that. Brent Sutter turned out to be a lousy coach. It's his atrocious game plan for the final third scuppered Canada. To think, sitting back and protecting a tiny lead against whom? Sweden? Russia? A mediocre Slovakia! Unimaginable.
Whatever, I'll take our current performances in the Olympics along with a million quarterfinal losses in the World Championship.

I mean come on...Methot and Murray on the team? Lets get serial here.

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