And the fact that Babcock never bothered to learn Kindl's name and still refers to him as "Kuba" probably says it all about his feelings about poor Jakub...
We can definitely add Mike Commodore to the hurt feelings pity party.
And the fact that Babcock never bothered to learn Kindl's name and still refers to him as "Kuba" probably says it all about his feelings about poor Jakub...
And the fact that Babcock never bothered to learn Kindl's name and still refers to him as "Kuba" probably says it all about his feelings about poor Jakub...
Do you, or anyone else here, actually think Hudler could be re-signed?
Besides that, it's an interesting topic: Holland vs. Babcock. What camp are you in? (not you, Heaton, I know which camp you are in) Babcock is one of the better coaches in the NHL. Holland is one of the better GMs in the NHL. Who's right, if we buy into this tiff regarding roster composition? Which of the two actually needs to wake up, if either do? Is one obviously in the wrong? Is it just a bad mix of GM/coach at this point? Should one be let go before the other?
Just questions.
I think Hudler could be re-signed, but not for anything less than market price.
And I take Holland over Babcock. For all of the faults we find with Holland, he's kept the wings competitive for quite awhile, and he never has to worry about the players tuning him out. The best coaches have a limited shelf life.
whats with the whole Holland vs Babs deal there is a reason they are both still in the red wings organization and were not they are the best for the job. I have faith in both.
People thought Franzen would be a checking line player, and he is now the best goal scorer on the Wings. Your statement is very broad, doesn't always work like that. What players are you talking about specifically?
I figured Franzen would be the first one brought up. He's the exception, but really even he isn't. I'm saying, what do we see in some 4th line jobbers that makes us think some transformation will happen and they'll develop this Sakic wrister? I guarantee Mule could score before and just needed something to click. He showed the signs. He had the talent if you knew what to look for. Notice the signs. Most can't and that's why it comes off to the masses as "random".
If you think Sheahan is going to turn into some notable goal scorer you're crazy. Players are what they are by the time they get here. It's not about linear development, it's about a player being what he is. Like Darren Helm will have the wrist shot fairy show up at his house this offseason or something.
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For example Jonathan Ericsson is a completely different player then he was when he was drafted.
No he's not. You could make a case for Franzen but Ericsson definitely is not. Has he improved? Sure, players improve. But he didn't acquire anything he didn't already have(no matter how much we piled on him). Which is what we talk about like that's something common. And Eaves? Cleary and Eaves don't make much sense, either. They are who they were. They didn't lose or gain any skills, they're the same damn player. People will take offense and really it's a forum so I don't care, but we just don't know hockey as well as we think we do. Everyone plays pretend expert, everyone knows everything, and we all sound like a bunch of schmucks who never even learned to skate trying to play armchair scout. Players don't magically acquire good shots, or bursts of speed or hands. They make better judgment calls, better decisions, gain experience, but the skill set that defines their physical abilities was defined well before now.
I like this signing. IMO he would fit best with Franzen and Zetterberg. They were great together at World Championships. Mule worked very well, when he wasn't at sniper role, he was the crease-crasher. Then Bunner would add speed in this line and a right-handness.
I haven't seen Brunner in action, but if his speed and scoring touch is like people say, then this might be a legit option. If this line worked, I would be much more open to your idea of having Flip as the third line center. All lines would be scoring threats.
Semin - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi
Franzen - Z - Brunner
Nyquist - Filppula - Cleary
Miller - Helm - Abdelkader
All three weren't together. Brunner is not swedish.
But Franzen ja Z looked really, really good together, so I really want to see them together at Wings. Loui Eriksson was the 3rd with them at WHC.
Franzen has looked a bit lost with Pavel, so at least I want them separated and see a different real sniper there (Semin).
Main thing is to get Franzen off that sniper role. He isn't a sniper. He is that crease-crasher, cheking line guy, that has suberb goal scoring ability for that kind of player. But if he's put only for a sniper role, he forgots all those defensive aspects from his game and becomes "lazy and coasting" guy.
What comes to see Brunner with Mule+Z, I really think that because Mule and Z aren't the fastest players in the league, adding speedster like Brunner would fit well, like Filppula, but Brunner has a bonus being a right-handed and more natural scorer (because mainly Z will want to make plays).
All three weren't together. Brunner is not swedish.
But Franzen ja Z looked really, really good together, so I really want to see them together at Wings. Loui Eriksson was the 3rd with them at WHC.
Franzen has looked a bit lost with Pavel, so at least I want them separated and see a different real sniper there (Semin).
Main thing is to get Franzen off that sniper role. He isn't a sniper. He is that crease-crasher, cheking line guy, that has suberb goal scoring ability for that kind of player. But if he's put only for a sniper role, he forgots all those defensive aspects from his game and becomes "lazy and coasting" guy.
What comes to see Brunner with Mule+Z, I really think that because Mule and Z aren't the fastest players in the league, adding speedster like Brunner would fit well, like Filppula, but Brunner has a bonus being a right-handed and more natural scorer (because mainly Z will want to make plays).
You misunderstood me. I meant if Babs DOES put Z, Mule, and Brunner together, and THEN the line ended up working, then I wouldn't have a problem moving Filppula to third line center, permanently. I realize Brunner is Swiss, not Swedish. Also, I did watch Mule and Z play together at Worlds and I was impressed. I agree with everything else you've said.
You misunderstood me. I meant if Babs DOES put Z, Mule, and Brunner together, and THEN the line ended up working, then I wouldn't have a problem moving Filppula to third line center, permanently. I realize Brunner is Swiss, not Swedish. Also, I did watch Mule and Z play together at Worlds and I was impressed. I agree with everything else you've said.
Aah, ok. No problem.
***
And more from that role change for Mule, one thing more why I wan't it because we need to get rid of Homer, and Mule is the best guy to take his role. He was net-front presence for Sweden at WHC and was great on it. Even Nashville's Patrick Hörnqvist didn't took his role, when he joined the team Sweden and I prefer him best atm in the whole league. We have seen some flashes of it from Mule when Homer has been injured and he is as good at tip-ins, but few inches taller than Homer to screen already bigger and bigger getting goalies.
I figured Franzen would be the first one brought up. He's the exception, but really even he isn't. I'm saying, what do we see in some 4th line jobbers that makes us think some transformation will happen and they'll develop this Sakic wrister? I guarantee Mule could score before and just needed something to click. He showed the signs. He had the talent if you knew what to look for. Notice the signs. Most can't and that's why it comes off to the masses as "random".
If you think Sheahan is going to turn into some notable goal scorer you're crazy. Players are what they are by the time they get here. It's not about linear development, it's about a player being what he is. Like Darren Helm will have the wrist shot fairy show up at his house this offseason or something.
Sheahan is a bad example of this because he has a plus shot in his bag of tricks. He just needs much better shot selection and accuracy. But there is a reason he lined up with Smith on the Blue Line in Grand Rapids and played that spot on the PP at ND from time to time. He also has a pretty decent wrist shot.
Players develop and improve skill sets. As they add strength both skating and shooting are areas you see improvement. It helps to have a good foundation but lots of guys vastly improve some of the things you are saying they either have or don't.
I figured Franzen would be the first one brought up. He's the exception, but really even he isn't. I'm saying, what do we see in some 4th line jobbers that makes us think some transformation will happen and they'll develop this Sakic wrister? I guarantee Mule could score before and just needed something to click. He showed the signs. He had the talent if you knew what to look for. Notice the signs. Most can't and that's why it comes off to the masses as "random".
If you think Sheahan is going to turn into some notable goal scorer you're crazy. Players are what they are by the time they get here. It's not about linear development, it's about a player being what he is. Like Darren Helm will have the wrist shot fairy show up at his house this offseason or something.
Franzen was a big body with a shot, but he was projected to be a checking line player in the NHL. We didn't know what we had with him until he got in the right situation for him. That's the whole point, you can't predict how people will develop, and that is where we will disagree.
"The funny aspect of the Franzen story is that the Red Wings have so much talent that they may not have known how much Franzen had developed had Tomas Holmstrom not been injured last season. With Holmstrom out, his role expanded and he started scoring goals as if he were Gordie Howe.
The other day, Franzen joked that he might still be a checker had Holmstrom not gone on the injury list."
So for any us to say we know what Riley Sheahan will be in 5 years is completely ignorant and impossible to predict. He played 3 years in a completely defensive system. He is a big body and scouting reports say he has a good shot. Sound familiar? I am not saying I think he will be anything, because I have no idea, and neither do you. He could turn into Jordan Staal or Franzen, or he could be a career AHL'er. No one knows.
No he's not. You could make a case for Franzen but Ericsson definitely is not. Has he improved? Sure, players improve. But he didn't acquire anything he didn't already have(no matter how much we piled on him). Which is what we talk about like that's something common. And Eaves? Cleary and Eaves don't make much sense, either. They are who they were. They didn't lose or gain any skills, they're the same damn player. People will take offense and really it's a forum so I don't care, but we just don't know hockey as well as we think we do. Everyone plays pretend expert, everyone knows everything, and we all sound like a bunch of schmucks who never even learned to skate trying to play armchair scout. Players don't magically acquire good shots, or bursts of speed or hands. They make better judgment calls, better decisions, gain experience, but the skill set that defines their physical abilities was defined well before now.
Ericsson was drafted as a Center. Then early on playing for the Wings he played basically as a 4th forward. Now he is a stay-at-home type who PK's. I would say he is a completely different player. Eaves was a bad example, but Cleary was is a perfect example. Cleary was a prolific scorer in Juniors, and was drafted right after Marian Hossa. He couldn't score enough to be a top 6 player, so he had to completely learn how to be a bottom 6 player to keep a job in the NHL. Watch clips of Cleary playing in Juniors and tell me he is a similar player to the one who played on the Wings the last few years. Night and day. Cleary is not at all who he was.
And more from that role change for Mule, one thing more why I wan't it because we need to get rid of Homer, and Mule is the best guy to take his role. He was net-front presence for Sweden at WHC and was great on it. Even Nashville's Patrick Hörnqvist didn't took his role, when he joined the team Sweden and I prefer him best atm in the whole league. We have seen some flashes of it from Mule when Homer has been injured and he is as good at tip-ins, but few inches taller than Homer to screen already bigger and bigger getting goalies.
I completely agree about Mule being our #1 net-front presence. He is probably more suited for that role at this point. The Wings need to move on from Homer. To a lesser extent, Bertuzzi could be a net-front player for our first line and Cleary for our third line. Hell, even Abby could fit this role for the fourth line. As these guys get older and slower, I think putting them in this role could really benefit the team.
Goalies are getting so big and athletic now. If they can see the shot, they are going to stop it. Our team has been severely lacking in this department. Homer is nowhere near as effective as he used to be. We need more guys willing to get dirty around the blue paint, instead of mostly sticking to the perimeter. I think this is one of the main reasons we lost to Nashville in the playoffs.
I think Hudler could be re-signed, but not for anything less than market price.
Ok, then you get the obvious follow-up question: Do you, or anyone else here, actually think Hudler will get a 'market value' offer from Holland?
(I don't)
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And I take Holland over Babcock. For all of the faults we find with Holland, he's kept the wings competitive for quite awhile, and he never has to worry about the players tuning him out. The best coaches have a limited shelf life.
Agreed. That answer should be the obvious one, imo.
Ericsson was drafted as a Center. Then early on playing for the Wings he played basically as a 4th forward.
Ericsson was a defenseman when he was drafted (though he had only recenlty converted and he did play a few games as a center for Sodertalje the following year in the playoffs). And I don't recall him ever being anything like a 4th forward for the Wings. By the time he got to Detroit, he was a defensive defenseman-type.
Ok, then you get the obvious follow-up question: Do you, or anyone else here, actually think Hudler will get a 'market value' offer from Holland?
(I don't)
Agreed. That answer should be the obvious one, imo.
I don't think he will, either. And I don't have a problem with that. For what he brings, I don't see him having the same value for us as he will for another team.
I don't think he will, either. And I don't have a problem with that. For what he brings, I don't see him having the same value for us as he will for another team.
I'd guess NYI or Winnipeg for Huds, to be honest.
For what it's worth, Eklund had Montreal and Vancouver interested in him, as well. I hadn't heard Vancouver before but Montreal wouldn't surprise me if they at least made an offer.
Ericsson was a defenseman when he was drafted (though he had only recenlty converted and he did play a few games as a center for Sodertalje the following year in the playoffs). And I don't recall him ever being anything like a 4th forward for the Wings. By the time he got to Detroit, he was a defensive defenseman-type.
This is correct, he was a very good defenseman for Grand Rapids and was named to the AHL All Star team in 2008. He also performed very well during his call up during the 2008-09 playoffs. He's made the transition from forward to defenseman pretty well and the one thing I want to see him continue to do is use his size to his advantage along the boards and in front of the net. He will probably get the heaviest PK mins of anyone on the team next year.
Ericsson was a defenseman when he was drafted (though he had only recenlty converted and he did play a few games as a center for Sodertalje the following year in the playoffs). And I don't recall him ever being anything like a 4th forward for the Wings. By the time he got to Detroit, he was a defensive defenseman-type.
I worded that wrong. He was a defenseman when he was drafted, but he played more forward than D the season before he got drafted. So as you said, he was very newly converted. Regardless the transformation he has made from then to now is quite impressive. I thought I remember him being pretty giddy to join the rush when he first broke on the Wings, but I could be wrong.
I worded that wrong. He was a defenseman when he was drafted, but he played more forward than D the season before he got drafted. So as you said, he was very newly converted. Regardless the transformation he has made from then to now is quite impressive. I thought I remember him being pretty giddy to join the rush when he first broke on the Wings, but I could be wrong.
Would love to see the joining the rush return if he winds up with Suter. Really thought that was something noticeable when he played with Lidstrom. Suter really helps his D-partners cheat.
Would love to see the joining the rush return if he winds up with Suter. Really thought that was something noticeable when he played with Lidstrom. Suter really helps his D-partners cheat.
Ericcson seemed to jump into the play quite a bit this year actually. I think all the people that rag on him all the time are going to be shut up this year by him. I think hes gonig to take a big step for some reason
