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The Chris Kreider Thread 2.0 - Take Schroeder!!

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Old
05-18-2012, 08:54 AM
  #51
SnowblindNYR
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Cuz he was a bigger player who excelled against unproven competition (the ECAC that Jessiman played in before his draft was widely considered an inferior NCAA league at the time) and there was a smaller player available that was considered more skilled that the Rangers passed on (Parise, Schroeder)

Everyone knew Schroeder was considered one of the more skilled forwards in the draft and it was his size holding him back, and the comparisons to Parise were flying because of that. "Oh look, Parise turned out to be a star despite being smaller", etc. But Parise really isnt' that small at this point and excels because his tenacity is higher than practically anyone else in the NHL, and in retrospect, thinking that another prospect would match that just because of some vague size similarity, is a bit silly.

But 2003 obviously scarred Rangers fans pretty badly!
Was Schroeder really considered more skilled? I doubt he had the higher ceiling.

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05-18-2012, 09:04 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Was Schroeder really considered more skilled? I doubt he had the higher ceiling.
You'd probably have to ask someone who really paid close attention to the draft...I remember people saying Schroeder was a top 10 talent, while Kreider was one of the highest ceilings outside of the top 10 or so, but I don't know what the opinion on upside comparison would have been

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05-18-2012, 09:05 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Was Schroeder really considered more skilled? I doubt he had the higher ceiling.
Most definitely. He was considered one of the more skilled players in that draft if I am not mistaken. Had he been 6' he would have been a very high pick.

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05-18-2012, 09:15 AM
  #54
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Keep in mind Schroeder had 45 points in 35 games in the WCHA and 11 points in 6 games in the WJC during his draft year.

he was quite impressive leading up to the draft (though his NCAA numbers don't touch Parise's draft year numbers)

vvvv - yeah, I think I remember hearing stuff like Schroeder demanding certain linemates or icetime or something, and then damage control went into effect and everyone said no that was misinterpreted, but who knows at this point


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05-18-2012, 09:50 AM
  #55
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I remember hearing that Schroeder was bombing his interviews--looking like a total egomaniacal idiot. He didn't sound like a player you'd want anywhere near your locker room. He'd made a big impression as an underaged player a couple years before in the WJC--but it doesn't seem like he's improved all that much or as much as most of those drafted around him.

Another guy I remember really liking was Ryan O'Reilly. The knock on him was his skating sucked--he was a real leader, go to guy who would do anything for his team though. That guy went straight to the NHL.

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05-18-2012, 01:29 PM
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Ah, I found the stuff about Schroeder's interviews. Gare Joyce said this:

Quote:
Asked what his weaknesses were, he said he didn't have any. Said he couldn't really think of anything he needed to work on. Straight-faced.
Asked who was going to be on his line at UMinn next season, he said that he had already told the coach who he'd play with.
He was critical of team-mates and coaches and blamed the U.S.'s failure to win at the under-20s on everyone else except himself.
Those are just a few examples.

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05-18-2012, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Ah, I found the stuff about Schroeder's interviews. Gare Joyce said this:
Those answers look like someone in a sketch from SNL or something, unreal he'd answer like that.

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05-18-2012, 01:37 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Ah, I found the stuff about Schroeder's interviews. Gare Joyce said this:
That right there folks is a perfect example of what not to say in draft interviews.

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05-18-2012, 01:52 PM
  #59
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This discussion revisiting the run up to the 2009 draft and it's immediate aftermath reminds me of something:

People love to pop off about things they know nothing about.

....and it usually turns into comedy gold as it will in this case.

I remember all this hype about Schroeder, and why we should take him or should have taken him. Now we hear about these interviews, LOL!

Thank God we have some people who actually know what they are talking about running the Rangers draft.

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05-18-2012, 01:53 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Those answers look like someone in a sketch from SNL or something, unreal he'd answer like that.
You'd think his agent would have coached him up on that. Maybe he thought that showing extreme confidence would win him points. Obviously he was wrong.

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05-18-2012, 02:09 PM
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You'd think his agent would have coached him up on that. Maybe he thought that showing extreme confidence would win him points. Obviously he was wrong.
When I went to college everyone that cared 2 ***** about about getting a job took classes on passing interviews. You'd think his agent would do the same.

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05-18-2012, 04:11 PM
  #62
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While we like Kreider, it's also probably worth pointing out that Shcroeder is far from a bust at this point too. Still got plenty of time

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05-18-2012, 09:39 PM
  #63
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I hardly followed the draft that year, or any of the prospects, but I could tell Kreider was going to be the pick.

It was fairly obvious to anyone who paid any attention or anyone who wasin't blinded by their lust for another player (Schroeder cough cough).
Again with the name changing? And now you're not a mod?

You're hard to keep track of, stop playing tricks on me.

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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
This is why i always believed in him. Its not just his physical tools, he has always had the character and work ethic to continually strive toward being a better player.

And his desire to win.

The game isn't always about, and the best players aren't always just the most skilled. Its a mental game, too. You get out of it what you put into it.

And that's the identity of this club now.

The Rangers are going to continue drafting players who have that mind set, and who have a foundation of physical tools.

That's why J.T. Miller was the obvious pick last June. And he's another one that is going to be a heck of a player.

While it threw me for a loop at the time, McIlrath was the pick for the same reason.

They're building a culture here.

I can't see them straying from that culture any time soon. Especially not when it got them to the Conference Finals.
I'm not gonna lie, I wasn't high on the Miller pick because I didn't know much about him. From what I heard, he sounded like something similar to a Callahan, which I didn't necessarily mind, but I wanted a scorer.

Their reluctancy to trade him in a deal for Nash until the very last minute speaks VOLUMES about what this organization thinks about him and the player that he could be one day though, I'll tell you that much. I'm excited and intrigued by it.

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Parise isn't a skill guy in a traditional sense. He's a worker that has skill.

He's a perfect example of what i was saying.

His skill is high don't get me wrong. But when you think of Parise you think of a player that won't quit. Won't stop. And will do what ever it takes.

I wouldn't compare their physical tools. But id compare their character and their way of thinking.

Kreider has abundance of natural skill. But that won't ever be what makes him successful. It'll be his determination.

Its not something you can teach...other than drilling it into someone in Paris Island.

Guys who put team before personal success. Will sacrifice personal success if it means winning.

Two NCAA championships, WJC gold, now helping this team on a run at the Stanley Cup...kid understands what winning is, what it requires, and is willing to do what ever is necessary to win.

It helps that he is 6-3 225, skates like the wind and can shoot a puck as well as anyone.

Lundqvist, Stepan, Staal, McDonagh, Girardi, Dubinsky, Richards, Boyle, Prust...this team is full of guys who put team and winning above personal acclaim.
Excellent analysis.

Parise was a guy I LOVED and screamed for the Rangers to draft, as I've been following him since he was with the Sioux. I loved the combination of hard work, hockey sense, and skill. To me, I thought he'd be a 2nd line borderline 1st line winger that could score 30 goals and 60-70 points, but this is a guy that has tremendous skill, and he's actually in amazing shape. His upper body is ridiculous. You can see it in that NHL Network commercial when he's on the trainer's table, he's ridiculously strong. I think part of his development has to do with conditioning. The hands were apparent back in North Dakota, and definitely so entering the NHL, but his conditioning and hard work has definitely catapulted him into star/superstar status.

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Originally Posted by BwayBshirt View Post
I'm not a draft expert or follow prospects that closely, but when I read the TSN write-ups on players in 2009 Kreider was the one guy who I wanted the Rangers to take if no one fell to them.

It said something like "Kreider might be the most purely skilled player in the draft, but the biggest question is has he played enough hockey?"...

When Schroeder fell to that spot I really didn't know which one they would pick. But I was happy as all hell that the Habs went the predictable route in drafting LeBlanc, whom based on the write-up didn't sound like a player with big upside.
Well, I'm not trying to knock you or anyone here, but the Habs taking LeBlanc was something we all saw from a mile away. They love drafting and signing Francophones, it goes back to their roots, and I'm sure you probably know this already.

Schroeder was a guy that I wouldn't have minded the Rangers taking, but I wanted a bigger more complete player. Pure skill they needed, but they also needed someone who was more physical and could compete at both ends. Sure, I was asking for an almost perfect player, but Kreider seems like he's fitting the bill.

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05-18-2012, 09:50 PM
  #64
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A lot of folks had Miller pegged wrongly as far as what kind of player he is.

He's a playmaker. He's a skilled player. He just also brings it physically. He relishes the physical game. He also relishes the skill game. His favorite player growing up was Kovalev.

Folks are going to love this kid when he gets his shot.

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05-18-2012, 10:32 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
A lot of folks had Miller pegged wrongly as far as what kind of player he is.

He's a playmaker. He's a skilled player. He just also brings it physically. He relishes the physical game. He also relishes the skill game. His favorite player growing up was Kovalev.

Folks are going to love this kid when he gets his shot.
And going back to what Coldshot said ya they pegged Miller out to a similar player to Callahan, but I think he is more of a playmaker like Supersonic said (from what i've heard). Someone who can throw the body around, set up plays, and chip some goals in. A not as good Getzlaf would be amazing to say the least lol.

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05-18-2012, 11:51 PM
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And going back to what Coldshot said ya they pegged Miller out to a similar player to Callahan, but I think he is more of a playmaker like Supersonic said (from what i've heard). Someone who can throw the body around, set up plays, and chip some goals in. A not as good Getzlaf would be amazing to say the least lol.
I remember Getzlaf in his junior days. He was a skilled player that was projected to be a power forward, but he wasn't projected to be this good at the NHL level.

60-70 points was where most thought he'd end up, and not just because of his skating ability being the big knock on him, his ceiling just wasn't projected this high.

Honestly, it's a crapshoot. I could tell you about so many other players who I followed highly in hockey that were supposed to be this and that, but weren't, or players who overachieved greatly. I'd like to think I have an OK record for someone who isn't a scout, but I'm not going to complain, just as long as the picks develop well and work out for the Rangers.

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05-19-2012, 12:21 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
A lot of folks had Miller pegged wrongly as far as what kind of player he is.

He's a playmaker. He's a skilled player. He just also brings it physically. He relishes the physical game. He also relishes the skill game. His favorite player growing up was Kovalev.

Folks are going to love this kid when he gets his shot.

You are always so optimistic about everyone. Every time I see your post about any of our top prospects, you are foaming at the mouth with love. I know you will respond by giving me a couple examples where you deviated from the rule, but I've actually paid attention to your posts in the recent months, and every one that I remember was, "omg! Our guy is the greatest. It's unbelievable how good he is." To be honest with you, it detracts from your credibility.

Miller had a very average season. He only scored ppg in juniors as the team's 5th scorer, then only 1 point in 8 AHL games. From the games I've seen, the kid right now looks like a downgraded version of Brandon Dubinsky. Kind of what Dubi was this year as he struggled to score.

I'm not saying he can't improve. Look at Callahan. The Rangers refused to give him an NHL contract at the age of 20 and he had to go back for an overager season. But he showed tremendous improvement since. But we don't know that Miller will improve above and beyond reasonable expectations. The truth is that right now, he's looking increasingly like a future third liner. Let's hope he can improve next year and rise up beyond current expectations.

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05-19-2012, 01:26 AM
  #68
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this has been an interesting thread to read so far, thanks to everyone for participating

As far as Kreider I would be happy as a clam in its shell if we saw Landeskog type numbers from Chris next season.

around 20 goals and 30 assists with responsible backchecking and some bone rattling hits

Its been awhile since NY had a young forward with size and skill like CK has. Dubinsky has the size and skating but hasn't been able to put the offense on the board as many here would have hoped for.

Between Callahan, Dubinsky and now Kreider NY is really starting to look like they can bring the wood on a nightly basis.

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05-19-2012, 02:22 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
This discussion revisiting the run up to the 2009 draft and it's immediate aftermath reminds me of something:

People love to pop off about things they know nothing about.

....and it usually turns into comedy gold as it will in this case.

I remember all this hype about Schroeder, and why we should take him or should have taken him. Now we hear about these interviews, LOL!

Thank God we have some people who actually know what they are talking about running the Rangers draft.
Those interviews dropped Schroeder--no doubt but I think the Rangers were intent on Kreider anyway. Neither of these was a secret at the time. There was a Bruins poster Kirk Leudtke (sp) who started posting about Kreider several months before the draft--very informative stuff. Gord Clark though was personally tracking Kreider all the time--playing for Phillips Andover. Schroeder was playing DIV 1 and Kreider prep school hockey. Schroeder already had WJC experience and done really well.

The interviews are part and parcel of the NHL combine which tests prospects physically, psychologically etc.--gives teams a chance to interview players one on one. This happens a week or two prior to the draft and all kinds of information comes out and this is where Schroeder kind of blew a tire--he came across as a dick and he paid the price for it. He didn't come across as a 'team' guy but as a 'me' guy.

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05-19-2012, 02:28 AM
  #70
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I don't understand how guys can bomb these interviews so bad. Even if you REALLY thought you were the next coming of Gretzky, it's common sense not to share that with everyone.

If anything, it's shows who's smart enough to hide how they might really think things. Schroeder's a real idiot.

Glad we ended up with CK.

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05-19-2012, 07:59 AM
  #71
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You are always so optimistic about everyone. Every time I see your post about any of our top prospects, you are foaming at the mouth with love. I know you will respond by giving me a couple examples where you deviated from the rule, but I've actually paid attention to your posts in the recent months, and every one that I remember was, "omg! Our guy is the greatest. It's unbelievable how good he is." To be honest with you, it detracts from your credibility.

Miller had a very average season. He only scored ppg in juniors as the team's 5th scorer, then only 1 point in 8 AHL games. From the games I've seen, the kid right now looks like a downgraded version of Brandon Dubinsky. Kind of what Dubi was this year as he struggled to score.

I'm not saying he can't improve. Look at Callahan. The Rangers refused to give him an NHL contract at the age of 20 and he had to go back for an overager season. But he showed tremendous improvement since. But we don't know that Miller will improve above and beyond reasonable expectations. The truth is that right now, he's looking increasingly like a future third liner. Let's hope he can improve next year and rise up beyond current expectations.
Lol. I shouldn't respond because based on this drivel your a pathetic little teenager with less than zero life experience.

However...

Miller is 18 years old and he was supposed to light up the AHL instantly? And you're questioning my credibility?

A point per game is only average? In a player's first season at that level? And you're questioning my credibility?

Had you known what entails prospect development, you'd know racking up points in a teenage league isn't indicative of what kind of player he will be.

What prospects am i saying this about, since you've followed me so closely.

What is Kreider doing right now?

Jeff Gorton, assistant GM, is on record as recently as last week, saying Miller will compete for an NHL position.

How many games has Tim Erixon played in the NHL this season?

Im not going to waste my time *****ing about what prospect didn't work out. Like those that still can't get over Jessiman and Brendl. Im going to talk about the ones that have a future.

Lastly. I don't care if you agree with what i say. Folks who have a lot more knowledge than you do normally agree. Jas, for one. And others who have changed their screen names over time.

Pierre McGwire gets **** for this. Why should he waste time whining about players who aren't going to make it.


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05-19-2012, 08:09 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I don't understand how guys can bomb these interviews so bad. Even if you REALLY thought you were the next coming of Gretzky, it's common sense not to share that with everyone.

If anything, it's shows who's smart enough to hide how they might really think things. Schroeder's a real idiot.

Glad we ended up with CK.
Schroeder still has a boatload of talent.

Hopefully for him, he matures.

If those are the things he said in the interviews, what were his advisors and agent doing? They're supposed to give these kids a ton of preparation before the combine.

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05-19-2012, 02:36 PM
  #73
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Needless to say...the kid's a stud in the making.

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05-19-2012, 02:38 PM
  #74
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I am officially mancrushing

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05-19-2012, 02:42 PM
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One goal off the team lead...crazy

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