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The KHL Impact on World Championships

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Old
05-18-2012, 12:08 PM
  #101
helgo
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
IMO you would have Aaltonen as well if healthy. The same Czechs and Cervenka. For example slovak goalie Laco (HC LEV) is nice addition to NT. Would he be so good if playing slovak league?? He was 2nd in shutouts in KHL if I remember.

Well, i doubt that 30 years old goalie would somehow get so much better after one year in KHL so yeah.

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05-18-2012, 12:11 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by SirPena View Post
That's just a counter-reaction to american consensus that ALL the best players in the world are playing in NHL.
It depends of what number of the top players in the world we are talking about. Top 10, 20, 30, 50, 100.....?

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05-18-2012, 12:12 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by LSnow View Post
What people dont consider is khl is much bigger enemy for fel than nhl.. If finnish/slovak/swedish etc player has amazing season in fel, they bolt to khl next season..
dont agree with bold part of statement. Biggest enemy is NHL (+ AHL, CHL). Tell me where Granlund ends next season? How much money his finnish club will get? Funny money. If guy under contract goes to KHL, his native club get big money.

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05-18-2012, 12:13 PM
  #104
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I like the KHL as a league and I think it will do a lot to increase the overall calibur of many Eastern European countries. That being said, it is not with the NHL in terms of star players or depth. There are a few teams that could likely compete with some NHL teams, but more than half the league would likely win less than 10 games in a NHL season.

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Old
05-18-2012, 12:15 PM
  #105
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What people dont consider is khl is much bigger enemy for fel than nhl.. If finnish/slovak/swedish etc player has amazing season in fel, they bolt to khl next season..
KHL is pretty much the reason in Finland why teams with 4-5k capacity arenas can compete with bigger teams. FEL's transfer agreement with NHL gives the teams something like 100k (if even that) euros when their player bolts to NHL. When they bolt to KHL (which they actually can't, FEL teams sell the players) teams can get over 10 times more money. KHL is really good for FEL teams financially, it's forming to be a same kind of situation like there is between the biggest soccer clubs and the rest.

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05-18-2012, 12:16 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
dont agree with bold part of statement. Biggest enemy is NHL (+ AHL, CHL). Tell me where Granlund ends next season? How much money his finnish club will get? Funny money. If guy under contract goes to KHL, his native club get big money.
His FEL team will get whatever the transfer agreement says a first round pick will get.

Also, the KHL is more of an enemy to the AHL, which also impacts the NHL. For example, some Russian's and other European's won't bother coming over and spending time in the AHL in order to make the NHL. This leads to these players developing in another league and in some cases never making the jump to North America.

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05-18-2012, 12:18 PM
  #107
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Old
05-18-2012, 12:18 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by SirPena View Post
KHL is pretty much the reason in Finland why teams with 4-5k capacity arenas can compete with bigger teams. FEL's transfer agreement with NHL gives the teams something like 100k (if even that) euros when their player bolts to NHL. When they bolt to KHL (which they actually can't, FEL teams sell the players) teams can get over 10 times more money. KHL is really good for FEL teams financially, it's forming to be a same kind of situation like there is between the biggest soccer clubs and the rest.
agree with idea (dont know about summes you mentioned, not my bussiness). I would add one point - finnish clubs are clever to sign multi-year contracts. Not like czech clubs for example, guys left czech clubs for free in many cases.

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Old
05-18-2012, 12:18 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
dont agree with bold part of statement. Biggest enemy is NHL (+ AHL, CHL). Tell me where Granlund ends next season? How much money his finnish club will get? Funny money. If guy under contract goes to KHL, his native club get big money.
Very few finnish prospects doesnt bust.. So few years and they are back playing here.. But it would be fun to have even one superstar (fel standards who would be probably a 3rd liner in nhl) more than for 1 year.. Likes of ryan lasch or Zaborsky

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05-18-2012, 12:18 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Also, the KHL is more of an enemy to the AHL, which also impacts the NHL. For example, some Russian's and other European's won't bother coming over and spending time in the AHL in order to make the NHL. This leads to these players developing in another league and in some cases never making the jump to North America.
What ahl has to with anything? It isn't even in top5 leagues worldwide.

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05-18-2012, 12:19 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
It depends of what number of the top players in the world we are talking about. Top 10, 20, 30, 50, 100.....?
I was talking about all the top players. Attitude in North America seems to be that average third liner in NHL would be one of the top players in KHL. I actually think the attitude is not as bad any more as it used to be couple of years ago.

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05-18-2012, 12:22 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by SirPena View Post
I was talking about all the top players. Attitude in North America seems to be that average third liner in NHL would be one of the top players in KHL. I actually think the attitude is not as bad any more as it used to be couple of years ago.
Are you talking baout all players in all leagues? 3rd liners are not top players. Top players are top players.

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05-18-2012, 12:23 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by SirPena View Post
I actually think the attitude is not as bad any more as it used to be couple of years ago.
I don't know if you followed the quarterfinals threads closely, but there were messages along the lines of "how Finland/Slovakia managed to win this one, they have like, what, 3 nhl players?"

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05-18-2012, 12:26 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by ult View Post
I don't know if you followed the quarterfinals threads closely, but there were messages along the lines of "how Finland/Slovakia managed to win this one, they have like, what, 3 nhl players?"
1. The Americans had hardly any top players (they actually have mostly 3rd, 4th line players, none of which would be stars in any league as they are role players)

2. I think everyone can agree that the Slovakia win was a great upset, ergo what is your point?


Last edited by Sens91: 05-18-2012 at 12:33 PM.
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Old
05-18-2012, 12:34 PM
  #115
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1. The Americans had hardly any top players (they actually have mostly 3rd, 4th line players, none of which would be stars in any league as they are role players)2. I think everyone can agree that the Slovakia win was a great upset, ergo what is your point?
I don't agree with that at all. Parise, Kane, Pavelski, Brown, Kessel, and we can go on and on.

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Old
05-18-2012, 12:35 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by YARR123 View Post
Yashin
Jagr
Radulov
Radivojevic
Stumpel
Vasicek
Rachunek
N. Kapanen
Bulis
Hudler
Fedorov
S. Kozlov
V. Kozlov
Demitra
Afinogenov
Zherdev
Saprykin
Kalinin

I'm pretty sure these guys would've gotten an NHL contract if they wanted. And there's a lot more I missed.
Taking out the players that are in the NHL, were bought out or left before the KHL we have all of 10 players. 3 of which tragically died, in the plane crash.

A few decent players, but most were dealing with old age, injuries, low playing time, and were coming off short, cheap contracts without much interest around the league. Not that different from before the KHL with players going across seas to play when their NHL careers weren't going anywhere. I'm sure you could come up with more names, but all the profiles are fairly similar and the KHL really hasn't dented the NHL like some people think.

Radivojevic - Fair
Vasicek - Fair.
Rachunek - Fair.
N. Kapanen - Fair
Fedorov - Very old, but fair
V. Kozlov -Very old, don't think he was getting any offers, debatable
Demitra - Fair.
Afinogenov - Fair
Zherdev - Fair
Kalinin - Fair.

S. Kozlov - Not sure who you mean??
Hudler - Playing in the NHL
Bulis - Left before the KHL
Saprykin - Left before KHL
Yashin - Old, washed up and bought out, left before the KHL
Stumpel - Old and bought out
Jagr - Playing in the NHL
Radulov - Playing in the NHL

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Old
05-18-2012, 12:37 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
I don't agree with that at all. Parise, Kane, Pavelski, Brown, Kessel, and we can go on and on.
I was talking about the WHC this year lol. I know the Americans are loaded with players.

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Old
05-18-2012, 12:38 PM
  #118
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I was talking about the WHC this year lol. I know the Americans are loaded with players.
Ah, ok then.

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Old
05-18-2012, 12:43 PM
  #119
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Ah, ok then.
They were saying how people were wondering how Finland could beat the US with only 4 NHL players, well the US really only had Johnson, Howard, Stastny, Okposo and Pacioretty(maybe?) as TOP end players, the rest are role players or players that are still developing (Fowler, etc.)

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Old
05-18-2012, 12:44 PM
  #120
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while I think that KHL has ton of caveats and thinks that are absolutely incompatible with any sort of attempt to reason them, it's still an ok hockey product, which could have been great, except for the natural western opposition to any product coming out of Russia, incredible Russian corruption, and Medvedev's atrocity's once it gets to the regiment and everything that concerns SKA.
The league is strong, has it's own tv channel, is a few countries wide, and some places well attended

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05-18-2012, 12:44 PM
  #121
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His FEL team will get whatever the transfer agreement says a first round pick will get.
I'm fairly certain that draft position has nothing to do with it. FEL team gets the same amount whether the player bolting is 1st overall pick or undrafted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
Are you talking baout all players in all leagues? 3rd liners are not top players. Top players are top players.
I wasn't talking about top players in the best league of the world, I was talking about hockey as a sport. And I consider a 3rd liner who makes over a million a year by playing ice hockey a "top player" in his sport. But that wasn't the point in my post...

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05-18-2012, 12:45 PM
  #122
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The KHL is indeed interesting, and good for former SSRs who have had great players but have experienced a steady decline since the fall of the USSR, countries like; Latvia, Kazakhstan, Belarus and Ukraine.
The hockey interest a KHL team (or any big league team) can spark locally and nationwide over time can for sure inspire youngsters to pursue their dreams to play hockey on a big stage.

I do see this hockey-train carry on further into continental Europe over time, I don't however see Swedish, Finnish or for that sake Swiss teams playing in the KHL anytime soon. Mainly because those leagues (and teams) are way to established and part of the hockey heritage of their respective county and country.
I'm curious as to how this will develop carrying on into the future. If you look at hockey in North America, in a simplified version you basically have a Canadian game that got exported south for US dollars, setting up the NHL as most competitive and by far the wealthiest league in the world.

Russia is obviously the controlling interesting in the KHL now, but will they be able to expand into Western Europe for the greater potential revenue and influence of the league? And will there be a conflict over giving up control to do so?

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05-18-2012, 12:47 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Sens91 View Post
They were saying how people were wondering how Finland could beat the US with only 4 NHL players, well the US really only had Johnson, Howard, Stastny, Okposo and Pacioretty(maybe?) as TOP end players, the rest are role players or players that are still developing (Fowler, etc.)
Yep, i agree with that. When it mattered, in 2010, you know as well as I do what two teams played each other in the final game.

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05-18-2012, 12:49 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by SirPena View Post
I'm fairly certain that draft position has nothing to do with it. FEL team gets the same amount whether the player bolting is 1st overall pick or undrafted.


I wasn't talking about top players in the best league of the world, I was talking about hockey as a sport. And I consider a 3rd liner who makes over a million a year by playing ice hockey a "top player" in his sport. But that wasn't the point in my post...
That's why I asked what number of top players we were talking about. Since you wanna do it this way, then you have to compare 3rd liners to 3rd liners, stars to stars, etc. You cannot compare, let's say the best player of Finnish league to a 3rd line player who plays let's say for Columbus (no offense CBJ fans, just used your team as an example).

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05-18-2012, 12:51 PM
  #125
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I see that the usual NHL/KHL pissing contest has began...

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