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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

The KHL Impact on World Championships

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Old
05-18-2012, 01:52 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by slovakiasnextone View Post
Only because we probably won´t have enough NHLers by the time Sochi is here. And this year doesn´t change the fact that for a number of years teams heavily built on KHLers made us not even good enough for the QF. And even this year we didn´t make it to the SF thanks to the KHL and anyone who believes otherwise is lying to himself.
Same reason applies to Finland.

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05-18-2012, 01:56 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by SirPena View Post
KHL is pretty much the reason in Finland why teams with 4-5k capacity arenas can compete with bigger teams. FEL's transfer agreement with NHL gives the teams something like 100k (if even that) euros when their player bolts to NHL. When they bolt to KHL (which they actually can't, FEL teams sell the players) teams can get over 10 times more money. KHL is really good for FEL teams financially, it's forming to be a same kind of situation like there is between the biggest soccer clubs and the rest.
You have the football league transfer culture to help back it up, but I wonder if the KHL would be so generous with the FEL and other similar leagues if they weren't holding their hands out to the NHL for even greater transfer payments?

Also isn't the NHL transfer agreement with the IIHF something like $400,000-$500,000 per player?

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05-18-2012, 01:57 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
That's why I asked what number of top players we were talking about. Since you wanna do it this way, then you have to compare 3rd liners to 3rd liners, stars to stars, etc. You cannot compare, let's say the best player of Finnish league to a 3rd line player who plays let's say for Columbus (no offense CBJ fans, just used your team as an example).
Read my first post again. I never said anything that KHL is even close to NHL. All I did was pointed out that Russian attitude towards NHL is a counter-reaction to some people in North America thinking that NHL is so superior to any other league in the world that even the 3rd liners would be superstars in KHL.

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05-18-2012, 01:59 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by SirPena View Post
Read my first post again. I never said anything that KHL is even close to NHL. All I did was pointed out that Russian attitude towards NHL is a counter-reaction to some people in North America thinking that NHL is so superior to any other league in the world that even the 3rd liners would be superstars in KHL.
Well, yeah, NHL is so superior to any other league. I'm not sure what you are trying to say, that it isn't so?

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05-18-2012, 02:00 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by vsk92 View Post
who ever are the top 4 teams in the KHL standings at the point of the tournament starting?
Only place where and when such a tournament could be held is on internet message boards...

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05-18-2012, 02:05 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by SirPena View Post
KHL is pretty much the reason in Finland why teams with 4-5k capacity arenas can compete with bigger teams. FEL's transfer agreement with NHL gives the teams something like 100k (if even that) euros when their player bolts to NHL. When they bolt to KHL (which they actually can't, FEL teams sell the players) teams can get over 10 times more money. KHL is really good for FEL teams financially, it's forming to be a same kind of situation like there is between the biggest soccer clubs and the rest.
225K dollars, might be 250K, don't remember the exact amount. Many player also have KHL clause in their contracts now which allows them to leave for free or for equally minimal pay. It's only a few players that have been paid huge transfer sums.

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05-18-2012, 02:09 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Only place where and when such a tournament could be held is on internet message boards...
I know its very unlikely to happen but would be fun to have a red bull salute kind of tournament which is more competitive

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05-18-2012, 02:15 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
225K dollars, might be 250K, don't remember the exact amount. Many player also have KHL clause in their contracts now which allows them to leave for free or for equally minimal pay. It's only a few players that have been paid huge transfer sums.
Ridiculously small amount for player like Granlund for example.

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05-18-2012, 02:21 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
225K dollars, might be 250K, don't remember the exact amount. Many player also have KHL clause in their contracts now which allows them to leave for free or for equally minimal pay. It's only a few players that have been paid huge transfer sums.
Oh ok my bad, so about 180k euros. Don't know why I thought it was 100k. You have some inside information about those KHL clauses? Because if my team's GM would make a multi-year contract with a player with basically a free KHL buyout-clause I'd be mad. That's just cheating the fans. And even if it's been a few with huge sums, that's basically about one every year. That's good for FEL.

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05-18-2012, 02:23 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Muuri View Post
Ridiculously small amount for player like Granlund for example.
Ridiculously high amount for a player such as Tomi Mäki or Pauli Levokari or Jussi Timonen(SaiPa must have been laughing all they way to the bank with that one) back when. It's the same amount for every player.


Last edited by Jussi: 05-18-2012 at 02:32 PM.
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05-18-2012, 02:28 PM
  #136
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What ahl has to with anything? It isn't even in top5 leagues worldwide.
Read what I posted. The KHL directly effects the AHL, while indirectly effecting the NHL.

For example, if a 20 year old Russian, Finn, Czech or Slovak who is playing in their home league is drafted by a NHL team; that team will likely want to bring said player to the AHL to continue their development towards the NHL. However, the KHL now gives that player a choice of playing at a high level of competition for good pay rather than the player having to go to the AHL and make $60,000 per year and possibly never make the NHL. So instead of trying for the NHL and taking the North American development route, these players stay in Europe and have a career in the KHL or wait until later in their career to make the jump across the pond.

This effects the AHL directly because many of the players who need to play in the AHL in order to properly develop their game may decide not to come over at all (i.e. Dmitri Vorobyov, etc.) or at least until they're offered a one-way contract with a NHL team (i.e. Roman Cervenka, Emelin, Komarov, etc.) because they don't want to play in the AHL. Most of the players/prospects who are guaranteed NHL playing time in their first year tend to come to North America without much hesitation.


Last edited by smitty10: 05-18-2012 at 02:33 PM.
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05-18-2012, 02:30 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by SirPena View Post
Oh ok my bad, so about 180k euros. Don't know why I thought it was 100k. You have some inside information about those KHL clauses? Because if my team's GM would make a multi-year contract with a player with basically a free KHL buyout-clause I'd be mad. That's just cheating the fans. And even if it's been a few with huge sums, that's basically about one every year. That's good for FEL.
Not sure about the amounts but it was discussed at the Jokerit section at Jatkoaika re: Janne Lahti (no sums have been mentioned coming Jokerit's way from his KHL club), every player's these says demands a KHL clause in his contract and no GM is going to refuse giving it because someone else will. Coincidentally it's been mostly a few teams that have benefited from KHL sales, JYP and Pelicans. The whole league hasn't benefited, ie. the likes of SaiPa hasn't seen any good from it, more like the opposite as their rival teams can now offer better contract to the same players they're interested in.

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05-18-2012, 02:30 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Ridiculously high amount for a player such as Tomi Mäki or Pauli Levokari back when. It's the same amount for every player.
Well then don't sign players of that caliber.

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Old
05-18-2012, 02:34 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Not sure about the amounts but it was discussed at the Jokerit section at Jatkoaika re: Janne Lahti (no sums have been mentioned coming Jokerit's way from his KHL club), every player's these says demands a KHL clause in his contract and no GM is going to refuse giving it because someone else will. Coincidentally it's been mostly a few teams that have benefited from KHL sales, JYP and Pelicans. The whole league hasn't benefited, ie. the likes of SaiPa hasn't seen any good from it, more like the opposite as their rival teams can now offer better contract to the same players they're interested in.
acccording to eliteprospects, Lahti´s contract finished after this season, so he is free agent and can sign everywhere - no money to his native club. The same you have in football (soccer).

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05-18-2012, 02:40 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
acccording to eliteprospects, Lahti´s contract finished after this season, so he is free agent and can sign everywhere - no money to his native club. The same you have in football (soccer).
Lahti also came back to FEL from AHL and his goal has been to go for the big paycheck abroad. I don't think that KHL clauses are that typical for players who breakout in FEL for first time. But yeah we are kind of off-topic now.

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05-18-2012, 02:42 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by SirPena View Post
Lahti also came back to FEL from AHL and his goal has been to go for the big paycheck abroad. I don't think that KHL clauses are that typical for players who breakout in FEL for first time. But yeah we are kind of off-topic now.
btw I am curious, why you use term FEL and not SM-Liiga?

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05-18-2012, 02:45 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
btw I am curious, why you use term FEL and not SM-Liiga?
I don't know I guess it's easier to write since we are talking about NHL, KHL, AHL, SEL, DEL, FEL... And it's so seldom I see people talking about Elitserien either here so I just go with the flow.

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05-18-2012, 02:54 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
acccording to eliteprospects, Lahti´s contract finished after this season, so he is free agent and can sign everywhere - no money to his native club. The same you have in football (soccer).
Lahti's contract ran until 2013. He signed a two year extension in December 2010 (his then current contract would have ran out in 2011).


Last edited by Jussi: 05-18-2012 at 02:59 PM.
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Old
05-18-2012, 02:57 PM
  #144
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I have a question to the KHL experts.
Since you have lots of finnish, swedish, slovak & czech going to he KHL, why hasn't there been more from Norway-Denmark (beside Thoresen)?
Denmark might get 8 NHL players for 2013 (if Frederik Andersen signs with Carolina, and Nicklas Jensen starts for Vancouver), but not a single drafted or playing in KHL? Norway has many very good players in the SEL, but only Thoresen playing there.
Is it because Denmark-Norway is still way of the map for eastern european hockey minds? Have any danish or norwegian players been asked and declined? Why this very skewed tendency "if NHL is better than KHL", does that mean that danish players are either awesome or not worth a damn - (being a bit ironic here)?

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05-18-2012, 02:59 PM
  #145
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KHL is great for the hockey to expand in Europe and there's a lot of skills coming from there, but i think North american hockey is the best skill wise for players to develop.

This WC it's been a lot of talk about how the NHL impacted the losing countries like Sweden, USA and Canada.

But then which players have played the best in all countries? I'd say the NHL players, right?

But yeah, the ones that played best (Zetterberg, loui, Franzén) came from NHL and the ones that played worst came from NHL....At least in this years Tre kronor. But yeah the Swedish SEL and KHL players played **** them to.

Russia? Malkin, even Yemelin played good. I'm not sure about the others, but probably a bunch of more NHL players.

Too bad i haven't been following each countries team, but i'm sure most of them gain their wins by NHL'rs (mostly) scoring and playing great

Finland: I'm sure every Finn would say that Koivu is the best after Selänne in Finnish hockey's history. Both NHL'rs

And Sweden got their OL gold and WC gold in 2006 by great players from NHL.

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05-18-2012, 03:09 PM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justinov View Post
I have a question to the KHL experts.
Since you have lots of finnish, swedish, slovak & czech going to he KHL, why hasn't there been more from Norway-Denmark (beside Thoresen)?
Denmark might get 8 NHL players for 2013 (if Frederik Andersen signs with Carolina, and Nicklas Jensen starts for Vancouver), but not a single drafted or playing in KHL? Norway has many very good players in the SEL, but only Thoresen playing there.
Is it because Denmark-Norway is still way of the map for eastern european hockey minds? Have any danish or norwegian players been asked and declined? Why this very skewed tendency "if NHL is better than KHL", does that mean that danish players are either awesome or not worth a damn - (being a bit ironic here)?
Skrøder got an offer from CSKA but turned it down. Thats because he is old, got family and he loves his club Modo. Atm we got two players in the KHL system (Thoresen and Haugen). Perhaps a few more goes to the KHL, but I believe that most norwegian players will stay in SEL. They got family and have settled down in Sweden.

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05-18-2012, 03:10 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Lahti's contract ran until 2013. He signed a two year extension in December 2010 (his then current contract would have ran out in 2011).
ok, my bad. I saw at EP that 2year extension was signed 12/01/2010. I though original contact would expire in april 2010 (after season 2009/10)

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05-18-2012, 03:12 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Harikkerk View Post
Russia? Malkin, even Yemelin played good. I'm not sure about the others, but probably a bunch of more NHL players.
After Malkin, Perezhogin and especially Popov stand out. I think these two play a huge role in that Malkin delivers, and the other way around

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05-18-2012, 03:14 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Harikkerk View Post
KHL is great for the hockey to expand in Europe and there's a lot of skills coming from there, but i think North american hockey is the best skill wise for players to develop.

This WC it's been a lot of talk about how the NHL impacted the losing countries like Sweden, USA and Canada.

But then which players have played the best in all countries? I'd say the NHL players, right?

But yeah, the ones that played best (Zetterberg, loui, Franzén) came from NHL and the ones that played worst came from NHL....At least in this years Tre kronor. But yeah the Swedish SEL and KHL players played **** them to.

Russia? Malkin, even Yemelin played good. I'm not sure about the others, but probably a bunch of more NHL players.

Too bad i haven't been following each countries team, but i'm sure most of them gain their wins by NHL'rs (mostly) scoring and playing great

Finland: I'm sure every Finn would say that Koivu is the best after Selänne in Finnish hockey's history. Both NHL'rs

And Sweden got their OL gold and WC gold in 2006 by great players from NHL.
This is true, the KHL has raised the level of the players from weaker European countries and players not quite NHL quality to a higher level, but the NHL players have supplied the biggest contributions to the bigger countries. Many of the European players we can't forget as well are former NHL players.

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05-18-2012, 03:14 PM
  #150
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I would say Danes/Norwegians dont want to sign in KHL. Btw goalie Lars Haugen has 2way contract with Dinamo Minsk. Russian KHL clubs sign foreigners to be in 1st line (club has 5 foreigners spots). Are Danes/Norwegians that good? Maybe another reason why not so many Danes/Norwegians in KHL. Non-russian clubs focus on domestic guys

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