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A way that Bettman and the league could sell me on a cap

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Old
12-22-2004, 10:25 AM
  #51
Lanny MacDonald*
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
No they were not. Great goalies like Bernie Parent, Gump Worsely etc. were not great athletes and not in the best of shape.

Quick reflexes ? Yes, but for the most part (always are exceptions) goalies were usually near the bottom of the teams list when it came to athleticism.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. As an example, Grant Fuhr was a short fat little ball of goo too, and he's one the best athletes you'll ever come across. He could compete at any sport and excel. You seem to be confused with having ripped abs with being an athlete. You don't have to be buff to be a great athlete. That's you fail to understand this basic principle speaks volumes.


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12-22-2004, 10:47 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
We'll just have to agree to disagree. As an example, Grant Fuhr was a short fat little ball of goo too, and he's one the best athletes you'll ever come across. He could compete at any sport and excel. You seem to be confused with having ripped abs with being an athlete. You don't have to be buff to be a great athlete. That's you fail to understand this basic principle speaks volumes.

Grant Fhur was an 80's and 90's goalie, and IMO actually very under-rated. The conversation started talking abut Dryden, .. and then other goalies of the 1970's.

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12-22-2004, 11:14 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Grant Fhur was an 80's and 90's goalie, and IMO actually very under-rated. The conversation started talking abut Dryden, .. and then other goalies of the 1970's.
Grany Fuhr was an example. He was in the same boat as those from the 70's. The fitness boom in the NHL didn't hit until the 90's. Give it up already. Things haven't changed much. Goaltenders have always been the best athletes on the team. They were great skaters (it took a ton of skill to skate in those heavy pads on flat blades), needed great stamina, had amazing reflexes and were extremely flexible. All of these traits are what many of the tests in camp measure for. But because the goaltender was fat (there, I said it for you) you say they were not athletes. Did you ever consider that the "rolly polly goalie" was that way because they needed a little bit of their own padding to prevent injury? Naw, everyone has to be an Adonis and be completely ripped to be considered an athlete, right? Arnold Schwartzenegger, what an athlete!!!

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12-22-2004, 11:29 AM
  #54
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[QUOTE=HckyFght]
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
If Ken Dryden was magically transported into the NHL today he'd have trouble even making it in the NHL today.

QUOTE]

You must never have seen these guys play. Sad, really. Oh add Billy Smith and Grant Fuhr to the list. The entire Patrick Division of the 80's NHL would go undefeated in the pansy league we have today. No brag, just fact, ma'am. Spending time in a gym pumping iron may make you big and strong, but it doesn't make you tough.
-HckyFght!
I watched them all play as well. Even though they were great for their time they wouldn't be as great today. Check out how much they "kicked out" rebounds. Mainly the old style tenders used to time it so that they could kick the stick at the same time as the puck hits the stick. Rebounds these days is virtually unheard of, especially a 50 foot rebound. Goalies didn't really "play" the puck back then so much as "kick the puck" outside the defensive zone. The rebounds eventually got picked off by studious forwards and scoring chances aplenty ensued.

Dryden invented `coming out of the net', was a stand-up type. Fuhr mainly stand-up, mixed with excellent positioning, a bit of the scramble 'epilleptic fit' save. As for Bill Smith...don't remember a thing about him at present.Hextall though, now he had a truly unique style, which i'm glad we don't see anymore.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that today's 'tenders are better, but only cuz they've learned from the masters, and their equipment is lighter,and absorbs pucks instead of letting it out there for a potential scoring op.. Kind of like debating Ali vs. Tyson in a way, one is good 'cuz he incorporated from the other. The other is good as he was a legend and invented his own unique style. A style so good that it stood the test of time, to be used as a benchmark for all future athletes.

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12-22-2004, 12:08 PM
  #55
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If you stood in the crease waiting for a pass back then you'd be eating paint for dinner, now they stand around hoping for a deflection and the goalie meekly tries looking around the opponent to see the shot...you guys who think this league is more talented and playing better hockey are sniffing glue.
-HckyFght!

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12-22-2004, 02:18 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
Well that's easy enough to do. Kill the instigator rule, trim the roster by four skaters and let nature takes its course. Then you'll have to have a couple of goons on the bench and remove a couple of guys dedicated to checking. More mistakes will happen as the skill players get tired or take shifts that are too long. It will be just like the good old days.

Actually, those days are gone. The players that are in the NHL now a days are just too damn good. Even the worst skater in the league today would be considered average in the late 80's early 90's. Brad Marsh would be AHL fodder in today's hockey, not a guy who played over 1000 games. The skill level has actually improved dramatically. Checking has become a skill and is taught at all levels. What used to be an anomoly is now considered an crucial part of any team. If you had a single checker on your team in the 80's you had something special. Now you have two lines that are assigned to check. The game has changed as have the dynamics of the players coming into the league. There are too many good skaters for the league to see the wide open play like you did in the early 90's.

No dude. You continually miss the point.
It's about officiating.
In the 80s, if you hooked someone, it was a penalty.
He didn't have to fall down.
If you slashed someone it was a penalty.
Nowadays, you've got to really slash someone (two hander) to get a penalty.

There's too much of this nonsense. It simply didn't exist.
It started to come into play with expansion and with the Jaques Lemaire style of coaching.
And for some reason, refs started letting it slide, en masse.

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12-22-2004, 06:17 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HckyFght
If you stood in the crease waiting for a pass back then you'd be eating paint for dinner, now they stand around hoping for a deflection and the goalie meekly tries looking around the opponent to see the shot...you guys who think this league is more talented and playing better hockey are sniffing glue.
-HckyFght!

You obviously haven't heard Gretzky's POV on this. One of his points when asked why his point totals went down was " Well when I first started out the big guys couldn't skate.. especially backwards. Now it's different the big guys can really skate well."

I'm not saying hockey is better now, it isn't, but little did we know how the game would change into a trap-filled extraveganza.

The fact that you remember those days in sepia-toned wistfulness is admirable but not really too respectful of the players of today. Hell remember Guy LaFleur saying how the team'd go for a smoke-break between periods? And how one GM was saying his team (Boston?) wasn't as fit as their fans? Too funny. It just makes me wonder how good Lafluer would have been if he would've committed himself to conditioning instead of carousing the bars after games and what-not.

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12-22-2004, 11:10 PM
  #58
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Take yer sepia-toned wistfulness and stick it where the sun don't shine.
-HckyFght!

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12-23-2004, 01:18 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HckyFght
You don't need Bettman for this. George Bush's disasterous economic policies will drive the dollar down so far that for once the Canadian dollar may soon be at par, which would save Canadian franchises from the horrible dillema of having to earn Canadian dollars and pay players in American. Perhaps that idiot ( I mean Bush) is actually good for something...sigh...
-HckyFght!
I bet Canadians will still find something to complain about....

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12-23-2004, 01:25 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
The NHL game played today is much more physical than it ever has been. Yes, the fighting has disappeared, thanks to the instigator, but for overall physicality the game to blows away what we saw in the 70's and 80's.

Too often we remember the past as the good old days ... and "old time hockey" .... "men were men" .... bottom line is that it isn't true.
Todays hockey is harder hitting, because the equipment is so much safer; From the give in the glass to the shock absorbing foam in their gloves and helmets. Ironically though, injuries have not gone down, because they just play the game a lot harder. Just look at the pads they used to wear (especially the goalies), and the fact they didnt wear helmets. Pretty easy to see why they had so much more room to skate and pass.

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12-23-2004, 07:54 PM
  #61
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And to think that all this came out of getting the Nordiques and the Jets back.

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