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Habs Playing in Memorial Cup: Finals on Sunday, Tinordi vs. Bournival + Ellis

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Old
05-27-2012, 10:59 PM
  #726
rdubb
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Am I the only one that thought Ellis, way more than tinordi lacked puck skills tonight? He seemed to lack puck composure and make bad decisions breaking out. Even when he had time and space he would just rim it. Although i thought he did seem better in the second half of the game.

Maybe I watched a different game cause I actually thought Tinorid made very good decisions with the puck and when to join the rush and pinch. I know that's not necessarily his game but I felt the couple times he did push the offense it was the right decision.


Last edited by rdubb: 05-27-2012 at 11:23 PM. Reason: based solely on tonights game
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05-27-2012, 10:59 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
He wasn't Habs property at the time though.
Haha ye but the question wasn't "at the time", it was "when was the last time a habs player captain of a memorial cup team", no current or non-current player specified, so I just went on assumption.

***and I found an article that will put the josh gorges myth to bed lol

http://www.kelownarockets.com/articl...ar-josh-gorges

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05-27-2012, 11:01 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by rdubb View Post
Am I the only one that thought Ellis, way more than tinordi lacks puck skills? He seemed to lack puck composure and make bad decisions breaking out. Even when he had time and space he would just rim it. Although i thought he did seem better in the second half of the game.

Maybe I watched a different game cause I actually thought Tinorid made very good decisions with the puck and when to join the rush and pinch. I know that's not necessarily his game but I felt the couple times he did push the offense it was the right decision.
Not sure people can watch a game, nor just a tournament and assess their analysis on a player. Ellis has better puck skills than Tinordi. I just don't believe Tinordi is as bad as some think he is. Still needs to improves, obviously, a whole lot...but nobody is awful. And everybody can make some crisp 1st pass out of the zone.

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05-27-2012, 11:04 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Not sure people can watch a game, nor just a tournament and assess their analysis on a player. Ellis has better puck skills than Tinordi. I just don't believe Tinordi is as bad as some think he is. Still needs to improves, obviously, a whole lot...but nobody is awful. And everybody can make some crisp 1st pass out of the zone.
Sorry, I wasnt clear....I did mean tonight and not as a general analysis. People seemed to say the opposite based on tonight's game.

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05-27-2012, 11:08 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I think it's about projecting what he'll do against pros. And I don't see his small stature doing it. He did make some good saves. And we shouldn't compare to Mayer to know if we should sign a guy or not.
I agree that if there's one thing that's definitely holding him back from making the NHL, it's certainly his size. But if he were to make it he wouldn't be the first goaltender of such stature just think of Halak and Legace. Anyway I don't claim to be some sort of expert when it comes to prospects since this was the only year where I paid close attention to the Memorial Cup but I thought he was solid and I think he deserves a shot. Now I don't see what's the big issue with offering him an AHL contract, it's not like we're wasting a draft pick on the guy or a contract à la Loic Lacasse on him. Let's be honest here it's not like he's stealing someone's spot in Hamilton as of now which is why I brought up Mayer. If he goes to Hamilton as a back-up who knows maybe he can pull a Cedrick Desjardins and move his way up slowly in our organization and Girard can be another feel good story for a guy from our Belle Province or maybe it just doesn't work out but there's no risk involved.
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
No thanks, seriously. The passive defensive game the Knights played during this tournament was anything but impressive. They'll be happy to have Dale back for next season.
Well it depends, I don't know about you but in the first period the London Knights were completely dominating the Cataractes and when I say dominating I mean it. They were playing like a puck-possession team, their passes were sharp and quick. The puck was rarely in the Knights zone since the D would always chip it out for the forwards as soon as they had the chance for quick attacks and Shawinigan were always second for the puck. Also if I base myself from the rest of the season he seems to be good to groom his defenseman when it comes to defensive responsibilities so I wouldn't be against him guiding Beaulieu into finding his groove defensively. Now I don't know if Mark Hunter preaches for his players to keep icing the puck since I'm not that familiar to the CHL really but it's certainly something he'll have to cut from his coaching in the pros (if he makes it there obviously).

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05-27-2012, 11:09 PM
  #731
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I want Tinordi to work on his slap-shot. Big guy with powerful shot from the point would be very nice.

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05-27-2012, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rdubb View Post
Sorry, I wasnt clear....I did mean tonight and not as a general analysis. People seemed to say the opposite based on tonight's game.
Well it was the festival of rimming it tonight for both teams. I thought Tinordi had a better 1st part of the game. But had a terrible, terrible 2nd part of OT that leaves people with that sentiment. Ellis had some good and bad moments but was mostly more even distributed which in the end doesn't look like he was having some problems. But the reality is that I don't think that the bad upset the good. He had one very terrible pass in the game that could have created an incredible chance. Yet, had some great 1st passes as well. For tonight, I,ll still give it to Ellis but mostly because when it counted the most, Tinordi was really bad and created 3 turnovers that could have ended the game much earlier.

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05-27-2012, 11:10 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by Chris G View Post
Haha ye but the question wasn't "at the time", it was "when was the last time a habs player captain of a memorial cup team", no current or non-current player specified, so I just went on assumption.

***and I found an article that will put the josh gorges myth to bed lol

http://www.kelownarockets.com/articl...ar-josh-gorges
Someone hacked Kelowna's website and changed it up

It isn't a myth IMO. We all know its true, just f around with it from time to time

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05-27-2012, 11:12 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by rdubb View Post
Am I the only one that thought Ellis, way more than tinordi lacks puck skills? He seemed to lack puck composure and make bad decisions breaking out. Even when he had time and space he would just rim it. Although i thought he did seem better in the second half of the game.

Maybe I watched a different game cause I actually thought Tinorid made very good decisions with the puck and when to join the rush and pinch. I know that's not necessarily his game but I felt the couple times he did push the offense it was the right decision.
I absolutely agree with what you saw with Tinordi tonight, I saw the same things and I was pleasantly surprised. He kept his cool when it was time to get the puck out of his zone and he even joined the rush and had some decent scoring chances (particularly in the 2nd period). As for Ellis I found his breakout to be pretty average compared to his other games in the tournament but from what I've read it doesn't seem to be the norm for him though.

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05-27-2012, 11:25 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
...
Well it depends, I don't know about you but in the first period the London Knights were completely dominating the Cataractes and when I say dominating I mean it. They were playing like a puck-possession team, their passes were sharp and quick. The puck was rarely in the Knights zone since the D would always chip it out for the forwards as soon as they had the chance for quick attacks and Shawinigan were always second for the puck. Also if I base myself from the rest of the season he seems to be good to groom his defenseman when it comes to defensive responsibilities so I wouldn't be against him guiding Beaulieu into finding his groove defensively. Now I don't know if Mark Hunter preaches for his players to keep icing the puck since I'm not that familiar to the CHL really but it's certainly something he'll have to cut from his coaching in the pros (if he makes it there obviously).
No I didn't see a team completely dominating anyone in this game in any periods, but you have rights to your opinion that's for sure. If anything I saw more the other teams take advantage of the Knights' passive game during this tournament than anything else. Put Dale there, and I'm pretty sure the Knights would have won it with a more aggressive style. The coaching seemed too ... "safe" and that's really not what I want to see in Hamilton with Beaulieu & Ellis coming in.

That would be a good way to wreck perfectly good prospects with their respective styles imho.

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05-28-2012, 12:07 AM
  #736
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Honestly you guys are being way too hard on either Ellis or Tinordi. Both played solid games for the most part. When it came to the overtime period, they were both completely spent, and all the top D, Gormley included, made questionable plays with the puck down the stretch.

I think it's completely useless to do anything but praise them both for stellar performances, considering that they both played nearly half the game.

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05-28-2012, 12:21 AM
  #737
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Ellis needs to work on his "first step" & his acceleration... He's average at closing space right now, at the next level that can be a killer for a dman... Nice thing about that "flaw" is that it's a physical one primarily so it could get a lot better over the next 3-4 years with proper training... In meantime, it will force him to b that much better positionaly & anticipation-wise. If/once he fixes the flaw, sky's the limit.

Tinordi will need to up his physical/intimidation precense, seemed a bit too passive for a "man amongst boys". At pro level, opponents will show no mercy attacking his weaknesses... Size and strength will b on his side as he physically matures, he'll need to take advantage of the edge that can give him, or else end up like Gill, eventually a solid 4-5 dman, but too slow/immobile to match the speed in the NHL, and not mean enough to use intimidation to "slow" opponents down.

Bournival is a player. The brunet comparisons seem apt, but if he's got the right focus & self-confidence, a "burrows" type top-6 player is not out of the question.

Of the 4, I'm most skeptical about Beaulieu... After the world Jrns disappointment, i didn't see the kind of emphatic compete level a "get better at all cost" type athlete would have shown (see M. Bournival). Talent-wise, he's the beat if the group hands down, but talent alone means little at NHL level... At least in terms of "impact" players or valuable assets. Without steady annual improvement, he'll end up as an ahl/euro all star, or at best a hainsey-esque player, bottom-pairing but with enough skill to occasionally put up numbers and maybe earn a big pay day.

Beaulieu might best b used as trade bait, IF we can find a team that values him in a "top 10-12" draft range.


In any case, fantastic for the organization to have 4 impact players on 3 of the chl finalists.... Timmins is gold!

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05-28-2012, 12:50 AM
  #738
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In this tournament people got to discover Ellis as the top Habs prospect. This guy will be a beast in the NHL. Way better then Tinordi and Beaulieu

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05-28-2012, 01:17 AM
  #739
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Personally I think Tinordi has indeed below average puck skills and will need to work extremmely hard at the next levels to adjust to the speed of the game.. I thought he had incredible chimestry with Harrington, both guys are playing a very simple game and understand each others extremely well on the ice.. I thought Tinordi's positionning was very good in this tournament and you can see that this kid has the potential to become a special shutdown defenseman in the NHL one day if he keeps improving and has a very good partner to play with.. Just like Komisarek with Markov some years ago..

About Ellis: There is no doubt in my mind he is a surefire NHLer, possibly a bottom pairing defenseman but a very very good one, a guy we can rely on in all situations.. His game is already extremmely well rounded, will just need a bit of refine and adjust to a higher pace in the Pro but Ive very little doubt he wont accomplish that..

Bournival was desapointing to me at the start of the tournament but has progressed all the tournament long to play a very good demi finale game and an outstanding finale game where he showed alot of promise.. This Bournival could become a very versatile player in the big league, a guy you can use on your third line and second line at time to shake things up.. Really liked his passing, his speed, very decent hands and the way he used his body to keep possession of the puck.. I think he will have to learn to shot the puck at the right times cause he took some marginal shots on goal all the tournament long but its easily workable..

About Beaulieu: was the best skater in this competition IMO, kids has sick skating\speed, stickhandling and passing skills, his transition game is also apart but there is no doubt his game has to be better rounded, outside his last game, I really liked what I saw from him, was not just commited offensively, I saw him make some nice defensive plays and I thought the offense\defense balance was there, he brought way more to the table than he hurts his team.. But there is no doubt that the last game let a bitter taste since he quite lacked focuss basically the entire game..

Overall an amazing Memorial cup run as I was expecting, I didnt say the Cats would win but I said the Cats would be very pumped with Hartley around the team helping Veilleux and the kids to believe in their chances.. I was also wondering if SJ would be as hungry as last year for this tournament.. I really enjoyed watching that tournament, I think it was our own playoffs as Habs fans, watching future Habs shining this way..


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05-28-2012, 01:50 AM
  #740
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Good tournament by Tinordi nonetheless. Had to be exhausted though, was not looking as good in the last part of the 1st OT. Turnover machine in the 2nd part of the period, lost his battle on the winning goal with Chaput who will end up being a really interesting player for Philly.
He was traded to Columbus.

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05-28-2012, 01:57 AM
  #741
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Not sure people can watch a game, nor just a tournament and assess their analysis on a player. Ellis has better puck skills than Tinordi. I just don't believe Tinordi is as bad as some think he is. Still needs to improves, obviously, a whole lot...but nobody is awful. And everybody can make some crisp 1st pass out of the zone.
He did jump in the play, a bit like Weber does, and almost finished a nice pass from Athanasiou. If he can develop that part of his game, that would be gravy.

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05-28-2012, 05:05 AM
  #742
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Ellis needs to work on his "first step" & his acceleration... He's average at closing space right now, at the next level that can be a killer for a dman... Nice thing about that "flaw" is that it's a physical one primarily so it could get a lot better over the next 3-4 years with proper training... In meantime, it will force him to b that much better positionaly & anticipation-wise. If/once he fixes the flaw, sky's the limit.

Tinordi will need to up his physical/intimidation precense, seemed a bit too passive for a "man amongst boys". At pro level, opponents will show no mercy attacking his weaknesses... Size and strength will b on his side as he physically matures, he'll need to take advantage of the edge that can give him, or else end up like Gill, eventually a solid 4-5 dman, but too slow/immobile to match the speed in the NHL, and not mean enough to use intimidation to "slow" opponents down.

Bournival is a player. The brunet comparisons seem apt, but if he's got the right focus & self-confidence, a "burrows" type top-6 player is not out of the question.

Of the 4, I'm most skeptical about Beaulieu... After the world Jrns disappointment, i didn't see the kind of emphatic compete level a "get better at all cost" type athlete would have shown (see M. Bournival). Talent-wise, he's the beat if the group hands down, but talent alone means little at NHL level... At least in terms of "impact" players or valuable assets. Without steady annual improvement, he'll end up as an ahl/euro all star, or at best a hainsey-esque player, bottom-pairing but with enough skill to occasionally put up numbers and maybe earn a big pay day.

Beaulieu might best b used as trade bait, IF we can find a team that values him in a "top 10-12" draft range.


In any case, fantastic for the organization to have 4 impact players on 3 of the chl finalists.... Timmins is gold!

I really think you have little idea of what you're talking about. You don't judge a kid solely on the limited exposure you have to him. He didn't have a great tournament, but he's a stud and easily our best d prospect imo.

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05-28-2012, 07:20 AM
  #743
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Honestly you guys are being way too hard on either Ellis or Tinordi. Both played solid games for the most part. When it came to the overtime period, they were both completely spent, and all the top D, Gormley included, made questionable plays with the puck down the stretch.

I think it's completely useless to do anything but praise them both for stellar performances, considering that they both played nearly half the game.
This is why I give Ellis a bit of a break, him and Gormley were out there every 2nd shift.

However he still has a lot of work to do on his defensive game and makes a couple of bad decisions with the puck, watching last night's game I understand what the scout was saying about Ellis last week saying he makes questionable decisions with the puck. Also his man to man coverage in front of the net is a little weak, needs to toughing up and get the guy out of in front of his goalie. AHL will be great for his development

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05-28-2012, 07:34 AM
  #744
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It's a shame we can't just fuse the two. But knowing the Habs luck, we'd get a defenceman with Tinordi's offence and Beaulieu's defence lol.
We already did, his name is David Fischer

I thought Tinordi had a really strong game. He may not have great puck skills but at least he knows his limits. Loved seeing him jump up into the play, and it didn't hurt his team at all when he did it, he was really smart when choosing to do it.

Bournival also had a good game. Hustling all night, hopefully when he's with the Habs he plays like that every night.

Ellis had another strong defensive game. He made more mistakes with the puck this game than his previous ones though. He was absolutely exhausted in OT, must have played close to 40 minutes tonight. He needs to work on his skating, I think he actually skates backward better than he skates forward.

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05-28-2012, 08:01 AM
  #745
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I really think you have little idea of what you're talking about. You don't judge a kid solely on the limited exposure you have to him. He didn't have a great tournament, but he's a stud and easily our best d prospect imo.
Not about this tournament, but his progression since being drafted.

Short of his coaches, his close friends/teammates & family, no one really knows more than what we see superficially... Not sure why you think your observations are somehow more legit...

And besides, it's not like I'm calling him a bust or questioning his skill level... Perhaps reading comprehension is a little lacking on your part ?

Will he make the most of his obvious potential? Time will tell, I don't like the signs I've seen, but maturity can kick in at any age and with skill like his, he'll get lots of opportunities to figure out how to be a pro.

but if you think skill/talent, as a kid, is a sure fire predictor of success as an adult/pro... That says it all.


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05-28-2012, 08:05 AM
  #746
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What's the all star team?

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05-28-2012, 08:08 AM
  #747
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What's the all star team?
2012 MasterCard Memorial Cup Awards:
Stafford Smythe Memorial Trophy (Most Valuable Player) – Michaal Chaput (Shawinigan Cataractes)
Ed Chynoweth Trophy (Top Scorer) – Michael Chaput (Shawinigan Cataractes)
George Parsons Trophy (Most Sportsmanlike Player) – Zack Phillips (Saint John Sea Dogs)
Hap Emms Memorial Trophy (Outstanding Goaltender) – Gabriel Girard (Shawinigan Cataractes)

2012 MasterCard Memorial Cup All-Stars:
Goaltender – Michael Houser (London Knights)
Defence – Jarred Tinordi (London Knights)
Defence – Brandon Gormley (Shawinigan Cataractes)
Forward – Austin Watson (London Knights)
Forward – Michael Chaput (Shawinigan Cataractes)
Forward – Henrik Samuelsson (Edmonton Oil Kings)

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05-28-2012, 08:12 AM
  #748
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My take on things:
Tinordi-Looks ok overall. Needs to work on his balance since he is so tall, put weight and muscle on and puck skill has to be address. He has solid potential IMO , you can see the way he reads the play. He will need one or even 2 years in the AHL.

Beaulieu-has all the tools to be a stud...skating passing, size and offensive acumen. One more year in the Q since he's gonna be to young for the AHL and he will need to add more muscle. The key will be to stay motivated and work on his defensive side of the game.

Bournival-Solid player, great speed strength, shot and 2way ability. A Higgins type? Needs to rest his body since injuries played a big part of this season for him. Wasn't consistent trow out the year but had a great final.

Elis-I say this guy is the closes to the NHL. Plays a smart 2 way game with leadership quality, size with a good shot from the point. With the right/hand shot, he may be victim of circumstances.

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05-28-2012, 08:17 AM
  #749
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Good showing by all of the Habs prospects...I don't expect finished products at this level, so I'm not as concerned with some of their weaknesses at this point as long as I see that progression is possible, and I think it is in all of Tinordi, Ellis, Beaulieu & Bournival

At the CHL level, in the Memorial Cup...all 4 of those players were among the best on the ice, and that's all you can really hope for.

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05-28-2012, 09:08 AM
  #750
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I'm sure that if you surround young guys like Tinordi, Beaulieu and Ellis with experienced, top-level NHLers playing in a NHL-level system, more than half those mistakes don't happen. You can't judge them based on their individual games as if it was an NHL game, you have to compare them to their peers, and all three of them stood out.

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