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Conspiracy Theory - Agents, Players, Goodenow

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Old
12-15-2004, 08:46 PM
  #1
eye
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Conspiracy Theory - Agents, Players, Goodenow

It occurred to me that agents stand to lose even more than the players do. With a cap system, reduced or eliminated arbitration, entry level restrictions etc. there will be less need for agents and alot less income with the reduced salaries that lie ahead. Agents must really be feeling the effects of this lockout with no money coming in and still having to maintain their offices, travel expenses, recruiting etc.

Didn't it seem odd to any of you that the agents came out of their meeting with Bob a few weeks ago in total support of him and the NHLPA? What did Bob tell them - perhaps - "stick with me boys and we will ensure a market place system with high inflation and maximum commision OR you can turn on me and support the owners, hence, reducing the need for your services by our players and reduce your income as a result.

Players also sounded the same after their meeting but Eagleson confirmed tonight that behind the scenes players often disagree but are coached to support each other in public and to the media. Remember how players were speaking up before the meeting saying they had no problem working under a cap?

Bob's strategy to offer the 24% was inconsequential as Bob McCown said on Sportsnet tonight. Like Patrick Roy and other retired players with business experience have also said - Bob's offer was like putting a bandaid on a wound caused by a gunshot. Is Bob banking on owners capitulating here? It isn't going to happen. I now understand why agents are reluctant to get involved and help end this thing - they stand to lose more than any of the stakeholders. I don't count players making over 5 million taking a hit. I really can't feel sorry for them making $100,000 less per pay.

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12-16-2004, 12:12 PM
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It's pretty obvious that agents do read and post on these boards. The fact that there have been no responses or bites to this thread topic brings some validation to my thoughts.

Agents have the power to end this thing. Right now they seem to be telling their players to hang tight but are they giving their players the right advice for the right reasons? I happen to believe that the bigger named agents in the league stand to gain more from a prolonged lockout as other agents go under. Just like Bob does for ego purposes, big name agents count on high salary inflation to boost their commission levels. I don't know how but Bob got all agents to side with him and common sense tells me it's all about their future earning power and ability to stay in business. I think agents are miscalculating the same way Bob is. If this work stoppage continues on until next year you can cut the amount of agents by at least 50% and they will see their commissions decrease proportianately to lower player salaries. With restrictions and strict guidelines there will be less need for players to hire agents. Either way agents stand to lose a great deal once the NHL resumes play.

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12-16-2004, 12:21 PM
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It's time for Agents to collectively take a stand to end this work stoppage!!!!

I don't know how well agents get along. I suspect they are highly competitive and that many have likely stabbed a few of their counterparts in the back but it's time to collectively stand up and be counted.

Since it seems unlikely that Bob will allow his players the opportunity for a secret vote, how about all agents taking a secret poll of their players and submitting the results to Bob on their behalf?

Possible Questions to players;

1) Are you prepared to resume play under some form of cost certainty system? Yes - No

2) Are you prepared to retire from the NHL for the sake of your ideology and priciple of not wanting to play under a cost certainty system? Yes - No

3) Are you willing to resume play in the NHL for a 54% share of gross revenues? Yes - No

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12-16-2004, 12:22 PM
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I've always been suspicious of the behind the scenes role that agents and agencies play in the formation of sports unions policies. If they have a substatial role then it could be argued that these assosciations are compromised. The latest NHL offer to players was actually better for players than the association offer was. Players making less money virtually gave up nothing, players making the most gave up the most. Also, did anyone notice that the union decided to reopen negotiations (Dec 2) on the very day that Bettman was to meet behind closed doors with all 30 GM's? I haven't heard a single report on what went down.
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12-16-2004, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HckyFght
I've always been suspicious of the behind the scenes role that agents and agencies play in the formation of sports unions policies. If they have a substatial role then it could be argued that these assosciations are compromised. The latest NHL offer to players was actually better for players than the association offer was. Players making less money virtually gave up nothing, players making the most gave up the most. Also, did anyone notice that the union decided to reopen negotiations (Dec 2) on the very day that Bettman was to meet behind closed doors with all 30 GM's? I haven't heard a single report on what went down.
-HckyFght!
Think about it - players making over 5 million are much more valuable clients to agents. I have been told that agents get 3-6% of a player's salary plus other incentives if they get them endorsements etc. Agents that have high end players want no part of Bettman's proposal. A 35% reduction in salary could cost agents millions. Did Bob Goodenow use this fact as leveridge in getting agents on side? Bob has known for some time that he was going to offer a wage rollback that would be recouped thru inflation and the competitiveness of owners and fans. I think he was banking on owners caving and jumping at his offer. I don't think he was banking on Bettman not only countering his offer and using his rollback against him but also the fact that owners now sense a weakness in the NHLPA and won't stop until they assure themselves of cost certainty.

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12-16-2004, 12:44 PM
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This seems to be the year of calling the other guys bluff. I agree, Goodenow, when looking at past negotiations, had every reason to believe that when the owners saw the pile of cash he was laying out there that they would jump. What he hasn't done is put his ear to the rail and hear what ownership is saying. Someone in another thread said that this is the fight Bettman was hired to take on ten years ago, but with new arenas being built and debt reduction underway, with expansion and TV deals potentially in the works it couldn't happen.

But getting back to the point, I've always wondered why the union is unconcerned for it's players when bad ice is an issue. or a team consistently loses 500 man games to injury year in and year out, or when foreign players hit North America, join the union, and there's no assimilation policy. Could it be that these aren't unions at all, merely cartells of talent controlled by agencies who pull the financial strings and set policy behind the scenes? You're onto something here I believe.
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12-16-2004, 12:51 PM
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no one is willing to respond because you just continue to re-hash the same old anti-player conspiracy theories that are ridiculously shallow and ignorant, since all anyone has to do in ANY Of your posts is replace the word player/union with Bettman/owners and it rings true.

Yawn.

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12-16-2004, 12:51 PM
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You really like secret polls for some reason.

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12-16-2004, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredsensfan
no one is willing to respond because you just continue to re-hash the same old anti-player conspiracy theories that are ridiculously shallow and ignorant, since all anyone has to do in ANY Of your posts is replace the word player/union with Bettman/owners and it rings true.

Yawn.
So your an agent or just another poster that likes to post without adding any substance or opinions to a thread topic question? Your sarcasm does nothing to help resolve issues that IMO goes much deeper than what meets the eye. Where would your team be if Billionaire Eugene Melnyk didn't come in to save the day? Didn't your last onwer just go bankrupt? Melnyk only bought into the Senators based on the promise by Bettman that he would get league costs under control and that's exactly what he is doing.

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12-16-2004, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eye
It's pretty obvious that agents do read and post on these boards. The fact that there have been no responses or bites to this thread topic brings some validation to my thoughts.
You seem to love making assumptions that have no basis in fact or reality.

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12-16-2004, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
You seem to love making assumptions that have no basis in fact or reality.
Also seems to like "secret polls" that are going to back up all his assumptions.

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12-16-2004, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Hockeyfan02
Also seems to like "secret polls" that are going to back up all his assumptions.
Another agent speaks up! Do you have something against finding out what players really think or want? The only way we can find out what players really think is to ask them to vote without fear of peer pressure or pressure from their dictator boss. I'm tired of Goodenow and Sissy Saskin's rhetoric and inability to explain their ideology or principles for which they stand. At least Bettman takes the time to explain his position and backs it up with what are mosthly varifiable facts. What is wrong with trying Bettman's system on a 6 year trial basis to see if in fact the NHL and the players can't prosper from it? Oh, I know. Agents will lose too much money and Goodenow would actually have to eat his words. Too bad he put himself in that predicament.

The best line I heard today was "why are players so insistent on wanting to kill the golden goose just because it's not providing as much gold as it did before" or something to that affect.

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12-16-2004, 05:25 PM
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I'm not sure, but I think there might be an agent lurking inside my keyboard. I do have concrete proof that there's one looking in my window at night when I try to sleep. Should i try to approach this agent or keep a safe distance???

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12-16-2004, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eye
Another agent speaks up! Do you have something against finding out what players really think or want? The only way we can find out what players really think is to ask them to vote without fear of peer pressure or pressure from their dictator boss.
Ah yes, I'm an agent obviously. I dont have anything against finding out what these guys are thinking.

I do have a problem when you lash out at people with "how do you know what the players are thinking?" when they are assuming, yet at the same time youre making assumptions. So I ask how do you know there are players that are against what Goodenhow and Saskin are trying to accomplish? Do you talk to the players on a regular basis?

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12-16-2004, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Hockeyfan02
Ah yes, I'm an agent obviously. I dont have anything against finding out what these guys are thinking. I just have a problem lashing out against people for assuming, when all that person is doing is assuming at the same time.
That guy has a borderline obsession with the CBA issue. Anyone who disagrees with him is part of the "Vast NHLPA Conspiracy". He's the Hilary Clinton of hockey message boards.

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12-16-2004, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
That guy has a borderline obsession with the CBA issue. Anyone who disagrees with him is part of the "Vast NHLPA Conspiracy". He's the Hilary Clinton of hockey message boards.
Of course, Clinton was right about the right wing working behind the scenes in a conspiratorial way (David Brock's book "Blinded by the Right" is a nice insight into that.)

I don't think you mean to say he's right though...

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12-16-2004, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Silver
Of course, Clinton was right about the right wing working behind the scenes in a conspiratorial way (David Brock's book "Blinded by the Right" is a nice insight into that.)

I don't think you mean to say he's right though...
Whether or not Hilary was right, actually naming it "the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy" was hilariously paranoid.

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12-16-2004, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eye
It's pretty obvious that agents do read and post on these boards. The fact that there have been no responses or bites to this thread topic brings some validation to my thoughts.
It's also pretty obvious that President Bush and Prime Minister Martin read this board. The fact that they never respond to my posts on the political board validates my belief.

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12-16-2004, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Newsguyone
It's also pretty obvious that President Bush and Prime Minister Martin read this board. The fact that they never respond to my posts on the political board validates my belief.

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12-17-2004, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Hockeyfan02
Ah yes, I'm an agent obviously. I dont have anything against finding out what these guys are thinking.

I do have a problem when you lash out at people with "how do you know what the players are thinking?" when they are assuming, yet at the same time youre making assumptions. So I ask how do you know there are players that are against what Goodenhow and Saskin are trying to accomplish? Do you talk to the players on a regular basis?
I speak to a couple of players on a regular basis and they have a different view in confidence than they do for the public's ears. Don't ask me to break their confidence because I won't. Their agents know their feelings as well but so far have refused to let Goodenow know for fear they will be singled out. I suspect if both players I spoke to feel this way that many more might be in the same boat.

Why are you against a referendum on such an important issue? Sure you can lash out with your sarcasm or bring American politics into this thing but I would prefer if that if you are on players side that your try to explain what Bob, Ted and his boys have failed to explain so far; What exactly do they have against working for 54% of gross revenues and what exactly is this ideology or principle they stand for - other than to say - "we don't like it or believe in it".

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12-17-2004, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Newsguyone
It's also pretty obvious that President Bush and Prime Minister Martin read this board. The fact that they never respond to my posts on the political board validates my belief.
Your supposed to be a writer. Why not find some constructive way to help end this work stoppage instead of going around policing everyone's posts. People usually resort to humour of this type when they are at a loss for answers or constructive input. I have yet to read one post by you that adds and insight into anything. Yes, I may be obsessed on this topic but if you had been waiting for over 20 years for your favourite team to finally have a chance to advance in the playofffs you to might be as persistent and passionate as I am. The Coyotes finally have a team to contend and now it looks like because of the players being led by an idiot that us fans won't have the chance to find out if we do in fact have the team to advance a round or two in the playoffs.

Now, if you want to continue being arrogant feel free to make fun. I expect nothing less from you. :mad:

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12-17-2004, 10:30 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by eye
Your supposed to be a writer. Why not find some constructive way to help end this work stoppage instead of going around policing everyone's posts. People usually resort to humour of this type when they are at a loss for answers or constructive input. I have yet to read one post by you that adds and insight into anything. Yes, I may be obsessed on this topic but if you had been waiting for over 20 years for your favourite team to finally have a chance to advance in the playofffs you to might be as persistent and passionate as I am. The Coyotes finally have a team to contend and now it looks like because of the players being led by an idiot that us fans won't have the chance to find out if we do in fact have the team to advance a round or two in the playoffs.

Now, if you want to continue being arrogant feel free to make fun. I expect nothing less from you. :mad:
Dude, if you're going to continually clog up the boards with conspiracies and propaganda, what do you honestly expect?
As far as me and my insight, I offer very little because I have very little.
If anyone here has insight, I haven't seen it. No one really knows whats going on. SOme of us are trying to form intelligent analysis of the situation.
Most of us are just saying "Yey Bettman!" or "Boo Bettman"

PS
The Coyotes have no chance next season. Trust me. I saw a lot of Brett Hull in the last two seasons. And a lot of Boyd Devereaux.

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12-17-2004, 11:34 AM
  #23
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So you've talked to 2 players so you now want all agents to start a "secret poll" and see what their clients think?

Speaking of "secret meetings", you know those football huddles? I can tell they're talking about me.

This is an issue between Bettman and Goodenow and that's why you haven't seen guys like Meehan get involved.

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12-17-2004, 02:57 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
Whether or not Hilary was right, actually naming it "the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy" was hilariously paranoid.
The Clinton Wars is another terrific book on this subject. By Syndney Blumenthal. "The Arkansas project," where more than 3 million dollars was paid out to people to lie about Clinton's past has been well documented. Lies for the sake of getting them reported, the theory being that even when proved false, the lie would live on. It's a tactic as old as politics itself. Yes, it was and still is a "consipiracy" in a strick interpretation of the word.
-HckyFght

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12-18-2004, 11:00 AM
  #25
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PS
The Coyotes have no chance next season. Trust me. I saw a lot of Brett Hull in the last two seasons. And a lot of Boyd Devereaux.[/QUOTE]

Well, we finally agree on one thing. Hull is over the hill and I agree the Coyotes made another managerial mistake in signing him. His play really dropped off the 2nd half of last season and it showed when he was sat for Team USA.

No one is more critical of Coyotes management than I am but they finally have built a blueline and have enough scoring and depth to at least make round 2 of the playoffs this year.

I still have to believe that Goodenow and the players will come to their senses soon because as each day passes their value decreases. I want to see hockey by mid January. If not the NHL II will have a different look next year and the Coyotes may be starting over once again.

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