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Since picking Jordan Staal 2nd overall in 2006...

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Old
05-21-2012, 05:11 PM
  #101
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
These are valid points. I'm not a Disco hater but he definitely has a problem (at times) letting young players get some development time in the NHL. That is, no "extended stays" most of the time unless there are injuries. That is the opposite of how some teams approach it, allowing and expecting mistakes and helping them work through it with video, etc. Talking about more skilled players like Tangradi or Despres who can correct their mistakes quickly if given a chance.

He also has a major Jones for gritty, underskilled veteran F and I believe that is 100% seeing a bit of himself in them and wanting to reward them for hard work. In short he's not able to see the roster from a totally objective viewpoint. He brings his personal "grinder biases" and that is a mistake. I think he has too narrow a view of what "Penguins hockey" should mean and it's directly related to who he was as a player.

These are flaws of young coaches IMO who have not been around the block enough times to understand the benefits of giving a less experienced but more skilled or better sized player the minutes they need to develop, in favor of guys like Adams, Park, & Co. The good news is I think he will learn and continue to improve as a coach but he won't get much leeway this year that's for damn sure. Nor should he.
As I said in another thread, he is a young coach and if getting kicked in the nuts by Flyer rookies doesn't wake him up, nothing will.

I just have a bone of contention for those trying to say DB was fair to Tangradi this year... Talk about being blind... What he did in the playoffs was a microcosm of the whole season.

What coach in his right mind would go back to the lineup that got him to 0-3....

When you decide you would rather stick with a lineup that didn't win a game over a lineup that was undefeated, there is a big issue there. Anyone who claims DB was fair to Tangradi and doesn't have a bias towards his gritty vets, is honestly full of ****.

It doesn't get anymore obvious than that... It made absolutely no sense and there is no logical explanation anyone can offer.

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Old
05-21-2012, 05:28 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
you guys know that Kreider has only averaged playing 12:59 per game, right? Not exactly throwing him to the wolves and giving him top 6 minutes.
10 minutes/game with shifts in the third period would be a huge improvement for him.

He deserved a place on the 4th line and spot duty with a doubleshifted Sid/Geno. He outplayed Adams, Park, Vitale, and Asham in the postseason.

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05-21-2012, 05:56 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I have a really simple question no one can seem to answer:

The Pens were 17-3 when Tangradi was in the lineup from late Dec on.. 2-0 in the playoffs...

Logic has always dictated you don't change your lineup in the playoffs when you are winning, yet Tangradi didn't play in game 6... Why?

It goes agt. all common sense that you start 0-3, then go 2-0 and sit Tangradi...

But DB doesn't **** Tangradi over, right....

Please.
Yeah its crap and just as bad as bringing him up to early.

I'm really big on propects spiraling up and earning their spots. IMO Tangradi earned a spot last year at the end of the season on that injury plagued team. Even then I don't think he overly forced the Pens hand. This year it was pretty clear that he's ready. He was one of those first period scraps that seemed to turn things around back in Jan, played pucks better and drove to the net more.

Maybe there's an attitude issue but you would think that something would have leaked out.

Also want to mention that Tangradi isn't even close to Kreider in terms of prospect value or quality of player. So that comparison has to go right out the window. The Pens only prospect with that high end ability is Morrow and IMO defensemen need to come along a little slower.

Would anyone else agree that since 2009 the Pens seem a liitle stale?

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05-21-2012, 06:15 PM
  #104
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Would anyone else agree that since 2009 the Pens seem a liitle stale?
Yes. Which is why I'd like to see a lot of young blood on the 23 man roster at the start of the season. Tangradi, Despres, Strait at least. If Tangradi decides to resign with us and isn't on the 23 man roster at the start of the season, I'll lose it. I'll lose it even more if Shero signs a 35 year old career fourth liner (i.e Richard Park 2.0) when it looks like our roster is pretty well set.


Tangradi, IMO, would be perfect with Staal on the 3rd line. Both are big bodies with skill and could work well together. It could also give Staal a good winger to play with, since that's potentially one of his gripes with being on the 3rd line. A core of:

Kunitz-Crosby
Malkin-Neal
Tangradi-Staal

looks good to me. Then fill in the gaps with Dupuis, a FA (Brunner? Maybe even Sullivan again, I wouldn't mind) and Kennedy. It doesn't look sexy, but I think it would get the job done.

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05-21-2012, 06:24 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Hedberg1 View Post
Yes. Which is why I'd like to see a lot of young blood on the 23 man roster at the start of the season. Tangradi, Despres, Strait at least. If Tangradi decides to resign with us and isn't on the 23 man roster at the start of the season, I'll lose it. I'll lose it even more if Shero signs a 35 year old career fourth liner (i.e Richard Park 2.0) when it looks like our roster is pretty well set.


Tangradi, IMO, would be perfect with Staal on the 3rd line. Both are big bodies with skill and could work well together. It could also give Staal a good winger to play with, since that's potentially one of his gripes with being on the 3rd line. A core of:

Kunitz-Crosby
Malkin-Neal
Tangradi-Staal

looks good to me. Then fill in the gaps with Dupuis, a FA (Brunner? Maybe even Sullivan again, I wouldn't mind) and Kennedy. It doesn't look sexy, but I think it would get the job done.
If linemates are the last straw for Staal staying in his 3rd line position, I really can't imagine telling him he gets Tangradi is going to be what changes his mind. He is obviously in that "fill in the gaps" position right now, not the good winger partner to keep Staal happy kind of guy. That said, I would like to see him given a shot to compete for a 3rd line wing position at camp. I would love to see him push Cooke down to the 4th line.

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05-21-2012, 06:26 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
As I said in another thread, he is a young coach and if getting kicked in the nuts by Flyer rookies doesn't wake him up, nothing will.
Yeah, I also hate it when we keep our top 10 draft picks from making the NHL roster when they deserve it. Wait...

The Pens prospects that you're talking about were trying to make the 4th line, because that's at most what they had earned. The 4th line. The two situations aren't remotely comparable.

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This is more rationalizing than being honest.

In strict terms of drafting players, were average at best, but probably worse unless we get 5-6 real good players from the past 2 years.
In Shero's first 3 years as GM, multiple early picks were traded, multiple prospects sustained long-term injuries that sidetracked their progress, and multiple selections were college-bound players who were almost certain to have longer development paths.

Ignoring those facts is ignoring simple context.

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Sure Staal is great and Esposito helped get hossa. But both picks were highly questionable at the time and Esposito ended up a terrible pick. And Staal over toews AND backstrom? Staal wasn't a bad pick, per se, but he wasn't the best either. That's why I always call bs on people saying Shero goes bpa all the time. If he did, who lied to him and told him staal was better than toews and backstrom? And if he took staal over them thinking he already had 2 offensive centers and wanted a defensive one, thats drafting for need, not bpa.
We know ffrom the Capitals draft videos that year that both Chicago and Washington would've selected Staal if he were available, so any criticism here is invalid. Shero picked who the other guys would've picked if they had the chance.

Esposito was the skilled "boom/bust" pick everyone here is always clamouring for, and lauding Detroit for before they've even played an NHL game. The thing about boom/bust picks is that sometimes they bust. Fortunately Shero recognized this early and maximized his value.

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Hes also shown a penchant for reaching on defenders. I like samuelsson, but he, sneep, and strait were all reaches at their draft slots. Sneep and strait in particular considering they were chosen high in their rounds. Sneep was flat out a bad pick at 32 overall.
And then we have Despres and Morrow, who both look like great picks where they were chosen.

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And where's a single player who's a Shero late round gem? Hes yet to find anyone who can contribute as a pro late in drafts. No talbots, tks, vitales, Jeffrey's, etc for Shero. His only hope right now is d'agostino.
Uh, Jeffrey? Agostino? Wilson?

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And even the way some guys flamed out almost instantly like espo, cpz, Nathan moon, and chad johnson doesn't really inspire confidence.
Every single team has similar flameouts.


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Old
05-21-2012, 06:26 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
What coach in his right mind would go back to the lineup that got him to 0-3....
I don't pretend to understand it; just trying to forget it and hope it never happens again.

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05-21-2012, 06:45 PM
  #108
mpp9
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Yeah, I also hate it when we keep our top 10 draft picks from making the NHL roster when they deserve it. Wait...

The Pens prospects that you're talking about were trying to make the 4th line, because that's at most what they had earned. The 4th line. The two situations aren't remotely comparable.
.
Our 4th line was useless without Tangradi in the lineup. Maybe we win game 1 with some more pressure from the get-go and it's a different series.

We scored goals, but we didn't apply nearly enough pressure on a very shakey Philly D-corps. Having a guy like Tangradi on your 4th line and some shifts with our top centers helps immensely.

Look at the Devils 4th line, they helped win them several games this postseason.

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05-21-2012, 07:02 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Our 4th line was useless without Tangradi in the lineup. Maybe we win game 1 with some more pressure from the get-go and it's a different series.

We scored goals, but we didn't apply nearly enough pressure on a very shakey Philly D-corps. Having a guy like Tangradi on your 4th line and some shifts with our top centers helps immensely.

Look at the Devils 4th line, they helped win them several games this postseason.
Adams had been a great playoff performer for us every single year since he's been here, until 2012. Asham led the damn team in scoring last playoffs. Tangradi did not deserve the benefit of the doubt over two playoff-tested vets who were both great for us in the post-season as recently as 2011.

You don't bench them for rookies at the first hint of trouble.

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05-21-2012, 07:10 PM
  #110
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Yeah, I also hate it when we keep our top 10 draft picks from making the NHL roster when they deserve it. Wait...
I keep forgetting only top ten picks are worth being patient with... Lord knows no one after the top ten has ever made an impact at the NHL level. Kind of stupid that they have another 20 picks and 6 more rounds.

Funny though how not a single soul can give a logical reason why DB benched Tangradi when they were 2-0 with him in the lineup, while his "vets" helped get him to 0-3.

Made perfect sense.

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05-21-2012, 07:12 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Adams had been a great playoff performer for us every single year since he's been here, until 2012. Asham led the damn team in scoring last playoffs. Tangradi did not deserve the benefit of the doubt over two playoff-tested vets who were both great for us in the post-season as recently as 2011.

You don't bench them for rookies at the first hint of trouble.
That is revisionist history.

Adams played like **** in the playoffs last season and again did nothing to help a woeful PK unit that cost them a 3-1 lead agt TB.

You can make that case for Asham last playoffs, but certainly not Adams.

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05-21-2012, 07:38 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I keep forgetting only top ten picks are worth being patient with... Lord knows no one after the top ten has ever made an impact at the NHL level. Kind of stupid that they have another 20 picks and 6 more rounds.
Where did I say the Pens shouldn't be patient with Tangradi?

I said that the Flyers rookies who torched the Pens were bona-fide blue-chippers, and the Pens rookies were 4th liner fodder this year, so suggesting that the Pens could somehow learn something about playing youngsters because the Flyers beat them doesn't make sense. The Pens didn't have Schenn and Couturier calibre talents sitting on the sidelines.

Quote:
Funny though how not a single soul can give a logical reason why DB benched Tangradi when they were 2-0 with him in the lineup, while his "vets" helped get him to 0-3.

Made perfect sense.
Maybe because correlation doesn't equal causation?

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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
That is revisionist history.

Adams played like **** in the playoffs last season and again did nothing to help a woeful PK unit that cost them a 3-1 lead agt TB.

You can make that case for Asham last playoffs, but certainly not Adams.
Adams was 2nd among Pens forwards in hits last playoffs, 1st in blocked shots, 2nd in +/-, 2nd in FO with 52.2%, took only one penalty, and despite leading all Pens forwards in SHTOI, was only on the ice for 3 of Tampa Bay's 8 PP goals (all occurring in the 8-2 blowout).

So no, he certainly did not play like ****.

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05-21-2012, 08:12 PM
  #113
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*hugs Rowdy Roddy Peeper*

I agree with almost everything you've been saying.

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05-21-2012, 08:13 PM
  #114
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I didn't particularly get the benching either. I thought Tangradi was playing well, and creating space for his linemates v. Adams and Asham who have been useless pretty much this entire year. At least when Tangradi was in the lineup had some momentum. He should have been used more frequently this season, especially with a healthy roster where we didn't have to have Craig Adams PK'ing - which brings me to another issue completely...our PK sucks ballbag in the playoffs. Year in, year out, it let's me down.

I think the wheels have fell off Craig Adams.

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05-21-2012, 08:20 PM
  #115
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Where did I say the Pens shouldn't be patient with Tangradi?

I said that the Flyers rookies who torched the Pens were bona-fide blue-chippers, and the Pens rookies were 4th liner fodder this year, so suggesting that the Pens could somehow learn something about playing youngsters because the Flyers beat them doesn't make sense. The Pens didn't have Schenn and Couturier calibre talents sitting on the sidelines.
Tangradi was 4th line fodder because he was never given enough minutes to advance beyond that "role" and I use that term very loosely.

I already explained how poorly Schenn played and how he was given time to learn and grow. He didn't make a real impact until late March.

As explained before as well, he is more talented than Tangradi and still needed all of that time to adjust.

So ya it makes perfect sense. Be patient with your rookies and it will pay off; it also goes to show that yes, you can win with rookies come playoff time (as every team in the final 4 can attest to).

Quote:
Maybe because correlation doesn't equal causation?
Right, because coaches always change their lineups when they are winning. There is no logic in going back to the lineup that got you to 0-3. Absolutely none.

Trying to make excuses for a coach who refuses to adjust and change unless he is forced to... Is... insanity. You know? Doing the same **** over and over and expecting different results.

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Adams was 2nd among Pens forwards in hits last playoffs, 1st in blocked shots, 2nd in +/-, 2nd in FO with 52.2%, took only one penalty, and despite leading all Pens forwards in SHTOI, was only on the ice for 3 of Tampa Bay's 8 PP goals (all occurring in the 8-2 blowout).

So no, he certainly did not play like ****.
I love stats because they can be so misleading. How about the fact the Pens are 1-7 in the last 8 playoff games Adams has dressed.

Or we could throw out the meaningless stats and suggest that anyone who watched the playoffs last season and this season would have seen a player who struggles on the cycle and has the offensive creativity of a rock. Hockey is played at both ends of the rink and a fwd with a deficiency at one end of the ice is a liability.

That doesn't even go into depth about how many times I saw Adams blow assignments in his own end, and they were plentiful. I said it last season and it was the same this season, he gets eaten up by fast teams like TB and Philly.

So again, revisionist history. Suggesting he played well last season or this season just tells me you like to rely on your stats more than actually watching Adams.

But hey this philosophy has paid off well.... Two embarrassing first round playoff exits and still not a clue where Tangradi fits in.

Yeah...

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05-21-2012, 08:55 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Where did I say the Pens shouldn't be patient with Tangradi?

I said that the Flyers rookies who torched the Pens were bona-fide blue-chippers, and the Pens rookies were 4th liner fodder this year, so suggesting that the Pens could somehow learn something about playing youngsters because the Flyers beat them doesn't make sense. The Pens didn't have Schenn and Couturier calibre talents sitting on the sidelines.



Maybe because correlation doesn't equal causation?



Adams was 2nd among Pens forwards in hits last playoffs, 1st in blocked shots, 2nd in +/-, 2nd in FO with 52.2%, took only one penalty, and despite leading all Pens forwards in SHTOI, was only on the ice for 3 of Tampa Bay's 8 PP goals (all occurring in the 8-2 blowout).

So no, he certainly did not play like ****.
That's great that he was good last year. This year was 10th on the team in hits, tied with 4 other player for 14th with 2 blocked shots, -1 for 15th & had 19 PIM in 5 games.

Adams was pretty horrible. You could see that he was either injured or the years of playing so many games in a grinding style took their tool on him. I like Adams as a role player but he wasn't the same guy he was in the past.

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05-21-2012, 09:19 PM
  #117
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*hugs Rowdy Roddy Peeper*

I agree with almost everything you've been saying.


I just think this whole "we didn't win this year because we didn't activate our youth!" idea is beyond ridiculous given who our youth was.

We would've been better with a rookie in for Martin because getting rid of Martin at that point would've been addition by subtraction. Beyond that...very doubtful.

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I didn't particularly get the benching either. I thought Tangradi was playing well, and creating space for his linemates v. Adams and Asham who have been useless pretty much this entire year. At least when Tangradi was in the lineup had some momentum. He should have been used more frequently this season, especially with a healthy roster where we didn't have to have Craig Adams PK'ing - which brings me to another issue completely...our PK sucks ballbag in the playoffs. Year in, year out, it let's me down.

I think the wheels have fell off Craig Adams.
I don't know if "benching" is the right way to interpret Tangradi being out for the last game. He only made the line-up because of the suspensions to Neal, Adams, and Asham. He came in and made a contribution so he kept a spot for Game 5.

While we won Game 5, it was only by one goal and our face-offs were awful, with Crosby our only center with a % above 40. It could be as simple as subbing out Tangradi and bringing in Vitale hoping to improve our numbers in the dot.

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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Tangradi was 4th line fodder because he was never given enough minutes to advance beyond that "role" and I use that term very loosely.

I already explained how poorly Schenn played and how he was given time to learn and grow. He didn't make a real impact until late March.

As explained before as well, he is more talented than Tangradi and still needed all of that time to adjust.

So ya it makes perfect sense. Be patient with your rookies and it will pay off; it also goes to show that yes, you can win with rookies come playoff time (as every team in the final 4 can attest to).
When we discussed it earlier, I never signed off on your explanations. Unlike Tangradi, Schenn was a blue-chipper who had dominated at the previous level, whose potential impact if he got going was far greater. That's the incentive for keeping him up.

Schenn also started contributing well before late March. He was putting up a point every couple of games on his return from concussion in December, which Tangradi hadn't managed to do in any of his stints.

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Right, because coaches always change their lineups when they are winning. There is no logic in going back to the lineup that got you to 0-3. Absolutely none.

Trying to make excuses for a coach who refuses to adjust and change unless he is forced to... Is... insanity. You know? Doing the same **** over and over and expecting different results.
Isn't changing the line-up after a win the definition of changing without being forced to?

In my post to JTG, I threw out a plausible explanation for the Tangradi/Vitale switch.

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I love stats because they can be so misleading. How about the fact the Pens are 1-7 in the last 8 playoff games Adams has dressed.

Or we could throw out the meaningless stats and suggest that anyone who watched the playoffs last season and this season would have seen a player who struggles on the cycle and has the offensive creativity of a rock. Hockey is played at both ends of the rink and a fwd with a deficiency at one end of the ice is a liability.

That doesn't even go into depth about how many times I saw Adams blow assignments in his own end, and they were plentiful. I said it last season and it was the same this season, he gets eaten up by fast teams like TB and Philly.

So again, revisionist history. Suggesting he played well last season or this season just tells me you like to rely on your stats more than actually watching Adams.

But hey this philosophy has paid off well.... Two embarrassing first round playoff exits and still not a clue where Tangradi fits in.

Yeah...
I watched Adams and thought he was good in last year's playoffs. You watched him and thought he was poor. The stats support my assertion.

Maybe the team's fortunes aren't solely determined by the decision to ice a playoff-proven 4th line grinder over an on-the-bubble rookie with consistency issues.

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05-21-2012, 09:19 PM
  #118
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Adams was pretty terrible all season, yet still got a regular shift every game.

Even in the game that ET played well DB wouldn't play him in the 3rd and would soon send him back down.

Awesome.

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05-21-2012, 09:22 PM
  #119
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Adams is definitely done now...but he wasn't nearly as awful as posters seem to remember him being in 2010-11.

Tangradi had one okay game when coming in for the bevy of suspended players and then was invisible the following game. The guy gets the ice time he deserves...which is almost non-existent. Just because you were once a top prospect doesn't mean you deserve to be handed the keys to a first line gig, Tangradi has shown next to nothing at the NHL level while Adams has. Hindsight may make that look silly, but Tangradi brings little to nothing to the line-up as things stand. I know this site is called Hockey's Future, but a prospect isn't always a better option than a veteran.

That said, Bylsma really does need to stop drinking from the Adams KoolAid so much. Tangradi may not have deserved much more ice time than he got, but Adams deserved far, far less. If the guy doesn't have his two rings he'd have been riding the pine by November.

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05-21-2012, 09:23 PM
  #120
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That's great that he was good last year. This year was 10th on the team in hits, tied with 4 other player for 14th with 2 blocked shots, -1 for 15th & had 19 PIM in 5 games.

Adams was pretty horrible. You could see that he was either injured or the years of playing so many games in a grinding style took their tool on him. I like Adams as a role player but he wasn't the same guy he was in the past.
I didn't say Adams was good these playoffs. I said that his previous years earned him the benefit of the doubt that he could play his way out of it.

He didn't. That won't be forgotten going forward.

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05-21-2012, 10:07 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
When we discussed it earlier, I never signed off on your explanations. Unlike Tangradi, Schenn was a blue-chipper who had dominated at the previous level, whose potential impact if he got going was far greater. That's the incentive for keeping him up.

Schenn also started contributing well before late March. He was putting up a point every couple of games on his return from concussion in December, which Tangradi hadn't managed to do in any of his stints.
Schenn was given substantial ice time, that was already explained, but I can see how it could be convenient for you to forget. Just like it is convenient to forget how in Jan people were calling Schenn a bust.

Dwight King blows your ridiculous theory about blue chippers out of the water. He was drafted in the third or fourth round in 07 (Tangradi's draft year). He was a big guy with some skill (sound familiar?) who was doing ok in the A (didn't impress me that much when I saw the Monarchs). He got the call in Feb and in his first game played with Richards. Then eventually with Stoll. He never played less than 12 minutes the entire time he was up and usually avg 14-15 mins a game. He produced at around .5 a point a game.

Playoffs roll around and he isn't scoring, but cycling the puck and playing a gritty game. Kings keep sticking with him, then in the conference finals he scores 4 goals and helps propel the way to a 3-0 series lead.

I know it may shock you, but guys don't have to be blue chippers to make an impact.

Good thing DL doesn't have the same theory as you and DB, hmm?

Quote:
In my post to JTG, I threw out a plausible explanation for the Tangradi/Vitale switch.
And I don't buy it...

Quote:
I watched Adams and thought he was good in last year's playoffs. You watched him and thought he was poor. The stats support my assertion.

Maybe the team's fortunes aren't solely determined by the decision to ice a playoff-proven 4th line grinder over an on-the-bubble rookie with consistency issues.
This is about developing prospects and icing a winning team. It is what good orgs do if they want to compete long term in the cap era.

If you think Adams played well last season, so be it. I will be nice and not bust you up about it. Just find it funny though.

And my stat suggests that maybe after going 0-6 and setting a franchise mark for playoff futility something needed changed?

Tangradi went in and they started winning. Only a stubborn, perhaps foolish coach sticks with something that is clearly not working.

Low and behold they lose game 6....

Meanwhile King, a non bluechipper rookie, is a big reason LA looks to be advancing this round.

One thing I can assure you of, King is not more talented than Tangradi.

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05-22-2012, 01:26 AM
  #122
froods
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
That is revisionist history.

Adams played like **** in the playoffs last season and again did nothing to help a woeful PK unit that cost them a 3-1 lead agt TB.

You can make that case for Asham last playoffs, but certainly not Adams.
That is completely untrue. 5 on 5 he was very good. The PK as a whole was garbage.


Last edited by froods: 05-22-2012 at 01:32 AM.
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05-22-2012, 01:31 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I have a really simple question no one can seem to answer:

The Pens were 17-3 when Tangradi was in the lineup from late Dec on.. 2-0 in the playoffs...

Logic has always dictated you don't change your lineup in the playoffs when you are winning, yet Tangradi didn't play in game 6... Why?

It goes agt. all common sense that you start 0-3, then go 2-0 and sit Tangradi...

But DB doesn't **** Tangradi over, right....

Please.
I think you are correct about taking him out of the line-up in game 6. It was a stupid move. The entire record with him in the line-up was pure coincidence. His 5 minutes a night, especially in Dec-Feb when he wasn't playing that well, had little if anything to do with winning. It just worked out that way. I could go through the factors during that time period, but you know them already.

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05-22-2012, 01:39 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by froods View Post
That is completely untrue. 5 on 5 he was very good. The PK as a whole was garbage.
Our 4th line was great last postseason, but mostly b/c Asham turned the jets on and Rupp was just a force on the forecheck.

Adams is on the decline. I like the guy, but its time we part ways.

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05-22-2012, 01:45 AM
  #125
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Our 4th line was great last postseason, but mostly b/c Asham turned the jets on and Rupp was just a force on the forecheck.

Adams is on the decline. I like the guy, but its time we part ways.
I think you keep him, but as a 13th forward. He would be a good mentor and is still a good leader. He still has enough in the tank to play around 30-40 games.

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