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Old
05-22-2012, 12:47 AM
  #126
Sidney the Kidney
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I think you keep him, but as a 13th forward. He would be a good mentor and is still a good leader. He still has enough in the tank to play around 30-40 games.
The problem is, so long as he's on the roster, Byslma will play him. Guys like Tangradi and Jeffrey will be sat or sent to the AHL in favor of making sure Bylsma has #27 out there for every PK.

Personally, I'd rather Shero just got rid of Bylsma's "toy" so he doesn't even have the temptation in front of him.

Note: I'm not as high on Tangradi as some folks are, so this isn't a "Tangradi is awesome!" post. However, I simply think Adams has nothing left in the tank, and at this point in their careers, Tangradi is the superior player and would help the club more.

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05-22-2012, 01:12 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
The problem is, so long as he's on the roster, Byslma will play him. Guys like Tangradi and Jeffrey will be sat or sent to the AHL in favor of making sure Bylsma has #27 out there for every PK.

Personally, I'd rather Shero just got rid of Bylsma's "toy" so he doesn't even have the temptation in front of him.

Note: I'm not as high on Tangradi as some folks are, so this isn't a "Tangradi is awesome!" post. However, I simply think Adams has nothing left in the tank, and at this point in their careers, Tangradi is the superior player and would help the club more.
See, I don't think Adams was that bad this season. He is always kind of up and down. Some times he brings a ton of energy and hitting. Then he has long stretches of blah. He has always been that way. He was still really solid on the PK. The thing we always counted on was that he would elevate his game in the playoffs. That did not happen this season. Bylsma had to go with him in games 1, 2, 3, and 5. I would have sat him in game 6 if I were him. I don't buy that he is Bylsma's "toy". I don't buy that he doesn't like young players. Tangradi will be in the line-up. Jeffrey was horrible this season. Hopefully it was the injury, but we will see. If you go back and watch that Buffalo tape, you will be amazed. That was the worst hockey I have ever seen by a single player. He was clueless out there. I wouldn't have put him back in either. Go back and read my posts from the +/-. I was at that game. It was horrific.

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05-22-2012, 06:41 AM
  #128
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That is completely untrue. 5 on 5 he was very good. The PK as a whole was garbage.
I focused on Adams last year to see why he got this label as a great PKer/defensive player. I saw a very avg, easily replaceable player who made more than his fair share of mistakes and he struggled agt teams with good transition games. Telling me about blocked shots, FO wins and hits means zilch when I see a guy who brings nothing at one end of the rink and very underwhelming responsibility in his own end.

So I just roll my eyes when people try to tell me Adams played well last year.

It leaves me with 2 conclusions:

They don't understand what they are watching or they have very low expectations.

I'll just leave it at that.

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05-22-2012, 10:03 AM
  #129
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I have not been a fan of Shero's drafting style at all. The thing is supposedly his style of going after safe north american types is supposed to yield a lot of games played and apparently it hasnt. I prefer boom or bust types as the kind of players that tend to be "safe" can be picked up off waivers and free agency for minimum contracts. One thing you can see about teams like Detroit and Caps is they arent afraid to draft foreign players and it has paid off with skill outside of the first round.

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05-22-2012, 10:09 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
I have not been a fan of Shero's drafting style at all. The thing is supposedly his style of going after safe north american types is supposed to yield a lot of games played and apparently it hasnt. I prefer boom or bust types as the kind of players that tend to be "safe" can be picked up off waivers and free agency for minimum contracts. One thing you can see about teams like Detroit and Caps is they arent afraid to draft foreign players and it has paid off with skill outside of the first round.
Theyre not going to yield games played immediately. When you pick in the bottom 10, players may need 3-5 years to develop.

And who have the caps drafted late with a lot of talent that paid off? I'm actually curious. I don't know who you are referring to. Orlov? I mean a 2nd round pick is playing in the NHL is normal.

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05-22-2012, 11:04 AM
  #131
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Theyre not going to yield games played immediately. When you pick in the bottom 10, players may need 3-5 years to develop.

And who have the caps drafted late with a lot of talent that paid off? I'm actually curious. I don't know who you are referring to. Orlov? I mean a 2nd round pick is playing in the NHL is normal.
Notable players for them since the 2006 draft not including Nicklas Backstrom since I think we really shouldnt include Staal either.

2006 late 1st round Semyon Varlamov
2006 2nd round Michael Neuvirth
2007 1st round Karl Alzner
2008 late 1st Anton Gustafsson
2008 last 1st John Carlson
2008 4th Braden Holtby
2008 7th Stefan Della-Rovere (not sure if hes a decent prospect or not but I remember him at least being decent enough for Canada's U20 which isnt bad for a 7th rounder)
2009 late 1st Marcus Johansson
2009 2nd Dmitri Orlov
2009 3rd Cody Eakin

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00008871.html


Just one noticable trend is a lot of those names are european. Also, whether or not the goaltenders are solid anymore isnt an issue, they sold Varlamov for a pretty penny. I hate the caps with all my might but they have beat the crap out of us in the drafting process the last few years. I attribute it mostly to Shero's insistance on safe, boring north american players who have the skillset that is already readily available to any NHL club so in essence it's a complete waste of a draft pick especially high ones to pick them. You should utilize the draft to hit the home runs and then utilize waivers and free agency to fill the gaps.

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05-22-2012, 11:39 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
Notable players for them since the 2006 draft not including Nicklas Backstrom since I think we really shouldnt include Staal either.

2006 late 1st round Semyon Varlamov
2006 2nd round Michael Neuvirth
2007 1st round Karl Alzner
2008 late 1st Anton Gustafsson
2008 last 1st John Carlson
2008 4th Braden Holtby
2008 7th Stefan Della-Rovere (not sure if hes a decent prospect or not but I remember him at least being decent enough for Canada's U20 which isnt bad for a 7th rounder)
2009 late 1st Marcus Johansson
2009 2nd Dmitri Orlov
2009 3rd Cody Eakin

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00008871.html


Just one noticable trend is a lot of those names are european. Also, whether or not the goaltenders are solid anymore isnt an issue, they sold Varlamov for a pretty penny. I hate the caps with all my might but they have beat the crap out of us in the drafting process the last few years. I attribute it mostly to Shero's insistance on safe, boring north american players who have the skillset that is already readily available to any NHL club so in essence it's a complete waste of a draft pick especially high ones to pick them. You should utilize the draft to hit the home runs and then utilize waivers and free agency to fill the gaps.
European players typically come into the league quicker if they are player overseas because they are already playing professional hockey, in most cases.

As far as the players you listed,

Alzner- a lottery pick...5th overall
Gustafsson- most likely will never play in a capitals uniform and doesn't look to be returning to north america...ever.
Della Rovere- is not even worth mentioning.

But to your point, the Capitals are a pretty good drafting team. However, I think the reason you aren't seeing impact players making their debuts so quickly for us is because we can draft based on talent and potential rather than picking guys who need to help us soon. If we had more major holes on our NHL roster, we would be more inclined to take the most ready player available but we don't have to. We currently have a top 2 defensemen from the WHL and a top 2 defensemen from the OHL in our system. Just because theyre not here right now, does not make them any less valuable.

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05-22-2012, 12:09 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
European players typically come into the league quicker if they are player overseas because they are already playing professional hockey, in most cases.

As far as the players you listed,

Alzner- a lottery pick...5th overall
Gustafsson- most likely will never play in a capitals uniform and doesn't look to be returning to north america...ever.
Della Rovere- is not even worth mentioning.

But to your point, the Capitals are a pretty good drafting team. However, I think the reason you aren't seeing impact players making their debuts so quickly for us is because we can draft based on talent and potential rather than picking guys who need to help us soon. If we had more major holes on our NHL roster, we would be more inclined to take the most ready player available but we don't have to. We currently have a top 2 defensemen from the WHL and a top 2 defensemen from the OHL in our system. Just because theyre not here right now, does not make them any less valuable.
No, my complaint is that Shero does not look at talent and upside as the top element of drafting a player. He tends to value safeness as the top element. What you said would describe a drafting strategy that I'd actually like, so that is not what Shero does. Even with those 3 guys off the list it's 7 players compared to our 1 that have had a significant NHL impact. Who is our top 2 dman from the OHL? I dont think Morrow is a top 2 Dman who I assume is your WHL guy, he seems to project into more of a 3-4 guy. I know its not much of a measurement but the fact that we've had next to no prospects in the last few U-20 World Championships shouldve set off some red flags that perhaps our prospect pool wasnt as universally lauded as we thought it was.

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05-22-2012, 12:18 PM
  #134
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No, my complaint is that Shero does not look at talent and upside as the top element of drafting a player. He tends to value safeness as the top element. What you said would describe a drafting strategy that I'd actually like, so that is not what Shero does. Even with those 3 guys off the list it's 7 players compared to our 1 that have had a significant NHL impact. Who is our top 2 dman from the OHL? I dont think Morrow is a top 2 Dman who I assume is your WHL guy, he seems to project into more of a 3-4 guy. I know its not much of a measurement but the fact that we've had next to no prospects in the last few U-20 World Championships shouldve set off some red flags that perhaps our prospect pool wasnt as universally lauded as we thought it was.
Harrington. Kid has been a monster. Playing huge minutes in all situations.

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05-22-2012, 12:28 PM
  #135
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Harrington. Kid has been a monster. Playing huge minutes in all situations.
Eh, I'll buy more into it when he can keep demonstrating it past that level. Luca Caputi was also dominating the OHL. I think many (myself included) falsely jumped on his bandwagon.

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05-22-2012, 12:41 PM
  #136
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Eh, I'll buy more into it when he can keep demonstrating it past that level. Luca Caputi was also dominating the OHL. I think many (myself included) falsely jumped on his bandwagon.
Caputi scored on his first NHL shift too!

I agree, but Im just glad the kid is playing a huge part of his teams success.

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05-22-2012, 12:54 PM
  #137
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Eh, I'll buy more into it when he can keep demonstrating it past that level. Luca Caputi was also dominating the OHL. I think many (myself included) falsely jumped on his bandwagon.
Well I tried to warn people about stat watching with Caputi (kind of like I am doing with Kuhn now)... His skating and balance were huge red flags when I watched him play. Harrington I have only seen a few times, but he has been much more impressive than Caputi ever was.

Morrow definetly has top two upside.

Also to be fair to Shero, BB was a risky ass pick. He was and still is a project. I thought for sure Shero was going to grab safer guys like Howden or Tinordi there, but he took the high risk, high reward player.

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05-22-2012, 01:01 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
Eh, I'll buy more into it when he can keep demonstrating it past that level. Luca Caputi was also dominating the OHL. I think many (myself included) falsely jumped on his bandwagon.
you'll buy that he's a top 2 defensemen in the OHL after he leaves the OHL? I wasn't saying anything about him being a sure thing. Was just saying what he is currently.

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05-22-2012, 01:08 PM
  #139
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On this board European Wingers will always be better than anything else.

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05-22-2012, 01:11 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Well I tried to warn people about stat watching with Caputi (kind of like I am doing with Kuhn now)... His skating and balance were huge red flags when I watched him play. Harrington I have only seen a few times, but he has been much more impressive than Caputi ever was.

Morrow definetly has top two upside.

Also to be fair to Shero, BB was a risky ass pick. He was and still is a project. I thought for sure Shero was going to grab safer guys like Howden or Tinordi there, but he took the high risk, high reward player.
I agree about the Kuhnackl/Capulti comparison however, Caputi never had anything close the the shot that Kuhnackl has, correct? (I mean shot like wrist/slap etc...not "chance")

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05-22-2012, 01:27 PM
  #141
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Also to be fair to Shero, BB was a risky ass pick. He was and still is a project. I thought for sure Shero was going to grab safer guys like Howden or Tinordi there, but he took the high risk, high reward player.
And then Detroit picks Riley Sheahan right after us. The same Detroit that picks only boom or bust type players instead of 'safe' picks that can be picked up off waivers or signed at the league minimum in free-agency.

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05-22-2012, 01:27 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
I agree about the Kuhnackl/Capulti comparison however, Caputi never had anything close the the shot that Kuhnackl has, correct? (I mean shot like wrist/slap etc...not "chance")
Caputi didn't have a lethal shot/release like Kuhn does. Kuhn could be a 30 goal NHLer or a bust and I wouldn't be shocked either way. You don't notice him and you look at the scoresheet and he had a 3 pt night...

Nothing he does aside from shooting is dynamic. He is just a guy you watch and don't really know what to think about him, which isn't bad or good, really.

You watched Caputi and you thought... Oh ****... He blows... Basically.

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05-22-2012, 02:08 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Caputi didn't have a lethal shot/release like Kuhn does. Kuhn could be a 30 goal NHLer or a bust and I wouldn't be shocked either way. You don't notice him and you look at the scoresheet and he had a 3 pt night...

Nothing he does aside from shooting is dynamic. He is just a guy you watch and don't really know what to think about him, which isn't bad or good, really.

You watched Caputi and you thought... Oh ****... He blows... Basically.
yeah thats my thought on Kuhn as well. And with the potential to be a 30 goal guy, he's still a valuable asset.

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05-22-2012, 04:18 PM
  #144
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you'll buy that he's a top 2 defensemen in the OHL after he leaves the OHL? I wasn't saying anything about him being a sure thing. Was just saying what he is currently.
Oh, I thought you meant that he was a top 2 caliber dman potential wise.

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05-22-2012, 04:28 PM
  #145
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And then Detroit picks Riley Sheahan right after us. The same Detroit that picks only boom or bust type players instead of 'safe' picks that can be picked up off waivers or signed at the league minimum in free-agency.
Detroit isnt really the drafting team that I like the most but they at least have a propensity to draft european players and it has paid off for them big time. I just look at it almost like a moneyball situation. You try to find value in what teams don't find value in. Teams tend to downgrade european players due to them being overseas and maybe not picking up the game or maybe dealing with difficult transfer issues. To me that means we can gain better value drafting one of them as if they were north american they wouldve likely been drafted sooner.

I'll give shero credit, he's a competent trader and as far as free agency goes even though I really disliked the Michelek and Martin signings at the time there are no albatross contracts that you see on almost every other team. His drafting though has been extremely suspect and now we're starting to have sufficient enough time to where his prospects shouldve been panning out. Fans should be questioning that instead of signing over the blank check of loyalty believing that Shero craps butterflies and sunshine.

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05-22-2012, 05:03 PM
  #146
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Detroit is hugely overrated on their drafting and has done nothing the last 10 years. Johan Franzen is the only top 6 forward they have drafted during that time, and no top 4 defensemen.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005492.html

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05-22-2012, 05:34 PM
  #147
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Detroit is hugely overrated on their drafting and has done nothing the last 10 years. Johan Franzen is the only top 6 forward they have drafted during that time, and no top 4 defensemen.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005492.html
Since 2000, they've drafted Kronwall, Kopecky, Hudler, Fleischmann, Filppula, Ericsson, Quincey, Jimmy Howard, Franzen, Kindl, Abdelkader, Helm, Matthias, and have a number of good prospects (HF has them ranked 15th). This with only 5 first rounders. That's a pretty solid record.

Given Detroit's success in Europe, Shero's hesitance to draft Europeans is somewhat disconcerting.

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05-22-2012, 05:44 PM
  #148
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IF Bylsma has to stay because he is some young coaching prodigy (I don't believe in developing coaches, personally, especially when said coaching prodigy doesn't believe in developing PLAYERS), at the very least get him some new blood behind the bench as assistants to get in his ear and provide a few DIFFERENT ideas. Assuming Bylsma can't find those himself. Marc Crawford and Jacques Martin couldn't be more different in terms of coaching philosophy, yet were a great tandem in Colorado. There's too much alike behind our bench. We need some fresh thinking.

And part of that fresh thinking involves better development (and more importantly OPPORTUNITIES) for our younger talent.

The way we treat the youth in this system, you would think we were completely bereft with talent. That's far from true, imo.

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05-22-2012, 05:44 PM
  #149
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On this board European Wingers will always be better than anything else.
Yeah, I don't really understand it either. The only European forward worth a damn in that Capitals draft list is Johansson, but he's been a huge disappointment so far (especially considering they moved Fleischmann to make room for him). I suppose you could add Kuznetsov, who might make his NHL debut in another 3 years...if he feels like it.

And the Red Wings haven't exactly been lighting it up with their European scouting in recent years, either. Ericsson is awful and I'm not knocked out by Tatar or Nyquist. The last European forwards they developed into useful players are Filppula and Hudler...who are both 28.

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05-22-2012, 05:52 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Left Of The Dial View Post
Since 2000, they've drafted Kronwall, Kopecky, Hudler, Fleischmann, Filppula, Ericsson, Quincey, Jimmy Howard, Franzen, Kindl, Abdelkader, Helm, Matthias, and have a number of good prospects (HF has them ranked 15th). This with only 5 first rounders. That's a pretty solid record.

Given Detroit's success in Europe, Shero's hesitance to draft Europeans is somewhat disconcerting.
Of course Shero won't have as many good picks as Detroit in the last 12 years considering he hasn't actually been a GM for half of that time. So lets compare teams instead of Shero.

Since 2000 we've drafted Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Letang, Orpik, Whitney, Talbot, Armstrong, Carcillo, Fleury, Moulson, Goligoski, Kennedy, Christensen, Biz Nasty, Jeffrey, Vitale, Nick Johnson, etc etc etc.

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