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KHL fans....also NHL fans?

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Old
05-19-2012, 11:35 AM
  #1
ALF AmericanLionsFan
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KHL fans....also NHL fans?

I'm a huge fan of the NHL ,but I also love and really appreciate the KHL as well. Wondering how many Russian KHL fans also follow the NHL rather closely or are big fans. Just curious as I get the impression it's usually one or the other.

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05-19-2012, 11:56 AM
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I hate nhl, sorry.

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05-19-2012, 12:05 PM
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I have a big problem with NHLs trade policy (including CHL, AHL). NHL (CHL, AHL) gets best europeans for funny money or nothing. If NHL (CHL, AHL) pay market value for best players I would have no problem with NHL. Euro club wants 10 milions dollars for player? Of course, NHL club pays it.

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05-19-2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
I have a big problem with NHLs trade policy (including CHL, AHL). NHL (CHL, AHL) gets best europeans for funny money or nothing. If NHL (CHL, AHL) pay market value for best players I would have no problem with NHL. Euro club wants 10 milions dollars for player? Of course, NHL club pays it.
Sounds like someone is jealous.

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05-19-2012, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
Sounds like someone is jealous.
no, I just want free market, not monopol of NHL. It works in soccer, why not in hockey?

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05-19-2012, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
no, I just want free market, not monopol of NHL. It works in soccer, why not in hockey?
What exactly isn't working in hockey? I think you fail to grasp that 99% transfers in hockey are Bosman's transfers which means there shouldn't be any money paid to players previous club. It's free market already, Cervenka's deal run out and he transfered to Calgary for free. Soccer baby.


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05-19-2012, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
What exactly isn't working in hockey? I think you fail to grasp that 99% transfers in hockey are Bosman's transfers which means there shouldn't be any money paid to players previous club. It's free market already, Cervenka's deal run out and he transfered to Calgary for free. Soccer baby.
Tatar had valid contract in slovak team and left for NOTHING. I would want NHL club to pay so much money how slovak team wants. All story. Many cases in Europe, not only Tatar. Cervenka case is ok

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05-19-2012, 03:19 PM
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I try to follow both leagues. I still believe the NHL is better and probably better run and more entertaining but i'm a fan of Russian hockey as well.

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05-19-2012, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALF AmericanLionsFan View Post
I'm a huge fan of the NHL ,but I also love and really appreciate the KHL as well. Wondering how many Russian KHL fans also follow the NHL rather closely or are big fans. Just curious as I get the impression it's usually one or the other.
Im a fan of hockey in general, but being from Ottawa, most hockey I watch, cheer for and am associated with is NHL hockey. So yeah, I am a big NHL fan.

Im a also big supporter of the KHL for reasons similar to Vorky. I think a balance in the hockey world and the destruction of NHL's monopoly and hegemony are big positives for world hockey ( and are not negative for NA, if their system changes).

I think ELC contracts are a joke, and the transfer fees are symbolic charity. I also find it absurd that people in the NHL say that a player has to grind it out in the AHL to be a hard worker, and if for some reason he would prefer to play elsewhere, he is a lazy and uncommitted cherry picker.
I think that pressuring young players to drop their organizations and behave in certain ways to get drafted high is manipulation and wrong. I also think wages are unfair, injuries happen too frequently to be acceptable, and 82 games of NHL hockey is way to much for a hockey player. Also NHL being independent and wanting cooperation only for their express benefit or solely financial gain is not the way to go, ie sacrificing Olympic games.

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05-19-2012, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yunost View Post
Im a fan of hockey in general, but being from Ottawa, most hockey I watch, cheer for and am associated with is NHL hockey. So yeah, I am a big NHL fan.

Im a also big supporter of the KHL for reasons similar to Vorky. I think a balance in the hockey world and the destruction of NHL's monopoly and hegemony are big positives for world hockey ( and are not negative for NA, if their system changes).

I think ELC contracts are a joke, and the transfer fees are symbolic charity. I also find it absurd that people in the NHL say that a player has to grind it out in the AHL to be a hard worker, and if for some reason he would prefer to play elsewhere, he is a lazy and uncommitted cherry picker.
I think that pressuring young players to drop their organizations and behave in certain ways to get drafted high is manipulation and wrong. I also think wages are unfair, injuries happen too frequently to be acceptable, and 82 games of NHL hockey is way to much for a hockey player. Also NHL being independent and wanting cooperation only for their express benefit or solely financial gain is not the way to go, ie sacrificing Olympic games.
I can agree with that, but if KHL succeeds, where's the guarantee that we won't have two NHL's instead of one? The monopoly will be over but how about those transfer fees. KHL pays even less for drafted talant than NHL did.

There will be only so many cities that will get KHL franchises and the remaining teams with great hockey schools will eventually die out. Which leads to my biggest concern - European fans don't care about attending junior hockey like Canadians, so hockey schools won't be able to finance themselves like CHL teams. Everything that won't be directly attached to KHL system will go bankrupt.

IMO, NHL model won't work in Europe.

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05-19-2012, 03:55 PM
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I don't care much of NHL simply because I don't live there, the teams, the players, the workings of the league, too remote and uninvolving for me...

Avangard Omsk - that's a diff story

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05-19-2012, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Den View Post
I don't care much of NHL simply because I don't live there, the teams, the players, the workings of the league, too remote and uninvolving for me...

Avangard Omsk - that's a diff story
You hardly live in Omsk either

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05-19-2012, 04:56 PM
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You hardly live in Omsk either
But I come from there

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05-19-2012, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
I can agree with that, but if KHL succeeds, where's the guarantee that we won't have two NHL's instead of one? The monopoly will be over but how about those transfer fees. KHL pays even less for drafted talant than NHL did.

There will be only so many cities that will get KHL franchises and the remaining teams with great hockey schools will eventually die out. Which leads to my biggest concern - European fans don't care about attending junior hockey like Canadians, so hockey schools won't be able to finance themselves like CHL teams. Everything that won't be directly attached to KHL system will go bankrupt.

IMO, NHL model won't work in Europe.
I'm not for an NHL model in Europe. Frankly I dont think the NHL model will even work in NA.

I don't know about your idea of the CHL but believe me, people aren't running to get tickets to their games. The OHL average attendance is around 3500-4000 and even that is with spiked attendances in places like London and Windsor where the Knights and Spitfires constantly develop to 10 NHL drafts that will have an impact right away. Other than that sometimes there's nothing else to. I've been in Sudbury and believe me, watching the Wolves is probably the most exciting thing you can do in that city on a wednesday. Also OHL heavily markets to youth and kids. If you go to one of their games youl see a crazy amount of shirtless little boys screaming and running around. Its not an atmosphere for adults. I remember in highschool they used to give a bunch of Ottawa 67 tickets away all the time, and Ottawa has like 20 highschools.
On top of that they pay the players almost nothing and the ones that are not from the city live with volunteers that also get paid nothing. Forget bases like Russian sport schools. Their equipment and everything else is sponsored by companies. If you think CHL is a crazy phenomenon youd be mistaken. Those clubs have a hard time getting by.

The minority of MHL teams have parent KHL Clubs, and other than that I think the fact that KHL sponsors MHL is a very big positive because the MHL doesnt just work for KHL cities but rather develops regional hockey. Also it hosts that kids tournament in Omsk where lots of independent teams play.

I recognize your concern that KHL presence will favourite some clubs, but, what is your supporting evidence that independent junior clubs will die out if KHL doesnt have a presence? Obiously if a rich KHL team runs a junior team it will be a really strong club but would it take anything away from others?

I think for a league like KHL to invest in Juniors is good and the fact that the NHL doesnt give back is a bad thing. But enough about juniors.

Teams that are independent like Rubin, Lada, etc could be even stronger, than counterparts in a KHL farm. so I dont see how everything outside KHL system will go bankrupt.

Also you mention that there could just be 2 NHL's and end of story. I dont think that is possible in principle. The reason, I believe, the NHL does what it does is because it is the single best and only. There can be only one or nothing. If there are 2 NHL's then players that are not associated with either have a choice. Leagues have to then attract the players whereas right now the NHL just does what it wants. The NHL would effectively have to change.

If there was a chance realistically that Nugent-Hopkins was drafted by SKA for example at 17, signed with them 2 mil/year for 2 years and entered the MHL-VHL-KHL system, the NHL would have to retaliate. And I guarantee you the ELC will be scrapped in no-time and many other things would be done.

Right now the NHL doesnt care because it only happens with Russians so they just play it off. Russians draft stock falls, they are called uncommitted, unreliable, and they proceed with drafting whoever is next- no issue. But eventually that will change. I already predict a record high draft of Finns in the KHL draft and once the KHL will be able to attract Euro's to start their career in the KHL soon NA's will follow. Its not about where youre from, it about what conditions you have, where you can be the best and where you get paid most.

Thats just one example but I think there will be many more things that would have to change once a monopoly is dethroned.


Last edited by yunost: 05-20-2012 at 01:43 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old
05-19-2012, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
no, I just want free market, not monopol of NHL. It works in soccer, why not in hockey?
It is a free market. What you're asking for is a closed market.

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05-20-2012, 12:56 AM
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I watch em both. But less NHL and more KHL every year.

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05-20-2012, 01:16 AM
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Meh nobody watches the KHL in NA but when i was in St. Petersburg for a few days i randomly turned on the TV to the sports channel and had the privilege to see an SKA match and then another afterwords.

All in all it was cool to watch but there were glaring differences in style and skill level. Nevertheless i really enjoyed both games

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05-20-2012, 01:57 AM
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KHL pays even less for drafted talant than NHL did.
What do you mean? KHL pays for drafted kids to russian schools?? Yes, it is less than NHL does to european clubs (I have no idea if NHL pays to CHL clubs). Can you see it?? You have 3 systems of hockey - NA (Canada, USA), Russia, Europe. I dont carre how much money NHL pays to CHL clubs for Canadians/Americans. It it their problem, their system. The same about KHL pays to russian clubs. BUT another story is if NHL/KHL club drafts Europeans (or NHL club drafts Russian and vice versa). NHL pays for drafted and signed Europeans funny money, no free market but amount which NHL wants. It is not good to pay the same money for Superstar and gringer. but it is advantageous for NHL (get more kids for less money). Reason? NHL monopol. KHL pays for players from Europe if under contract. THAT IS FREE MARKET.

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05-20-2012, 02:49 AM
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90% Russian fans only care about the KHL, and 90% of NHL followers are only interested in Russian players and their teams.

I find difference in style, ice size etc. good for hockey.

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05-20-2012, 04:19 AM
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I like the both leagues, although I have followed the NHL longer. But Ive been thinking of going to watch some KHL game(s) next season. They play in the KHL great hockey, and its also nice to see that every year there are more Finnish players in the league. Here in Finland there is also a tv channel which shows KHL matches, although its not free of charge.

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05-20-2012, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
What do you mean? KHL pays for drafted kids to russian schools?? Yes, it is less than NHL does to european clubs (I have no idea if NHL pays to CHL clubs). Can you see it?? You have 3 systems of hockey - NA (Canada, USA), Russia, Europe. I dont carre how much money NHL pays to CHL clubs for Canadians/Americans. It it their problem, their system. The same about KHL pays to russian clubs. BUT another story is if NHL/KHL club drafts Europeans (or NHL club drafts Russian and vice versa). NHL pays for drafted and signed Europeans funny money, no free market but amount which NHL wants. It is not good to pay the same money for Superstar and gringer. but it is advantageous for NHL (get more kids for less money). Reason? NHL monopol. KHL pays for players from Europe if under contract. THAT IS FREE MARKET.
NHL Clubs don't pay the CHL clubs for their players. Also, your point about paying for players that is strictly a European phenomenon. At any rate if that is the case the Washington Capitals organization would like to speak to you about Evgeny Kuznetsov, Nashville about Radulov, etc.

If the KHL wants to implement the free market system then Nashville would like around 10 million bucks for Radulov's services for getting UFA a championship and league recognition with his golden stick award

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05-20-2012, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Midas View Post

If the KHL wants to implement the free market system then Nashville would like around 10 million bucks for Radulov's services for getting UFA a championship and league recognition with his golden stick award
I am for it,do it.

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05-20-2012, 11:47 AM
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90% Russian fans only care about the KHL, and 90% of NHL followers are only interested in Russian players and their teams.

I find difference in style, ice size etc. good for hockey.
Yup, I agree.

I used to care for the Leafs, but they left nothing to care about. Just follow the Russians in the NHL, and mostly KHL/MHL.

Hockey in the NHL is OK, but I don't like their monopoly. Most NHL teams have 3-4 skilled players worth watching, after that it's dump and chase.

KHL, can be slow and boring, but at least everyone (except Vityaz) tries to play skillfully. I wouldn't want KHL to have monopoly either. But fair competition is good.

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05-20-2012, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Midas View Post
NHL Clubs don't pay the CHL clubs for their players. Also, your point about paying for players that is strictly a European phenomenon. At any rate if that is the case the Washington Capitals organization would like to speak to you about Evgeny Kuznetsov, Nashville about Radulov, etc.

If the KHL wants to implement the free market system then Nashville would like around 10 million bucks for Radulov's services for getting UFA a championship and league recognition with his golden stick award
Exactly, it's not like NFL teams pay millions to NCAA teams for players they draft. Then again, MLB pays out big for Japanese players whose rights are held via the posting system.

What's being described here is not "free market". Free market is players sign contracts with the highest bidder. Imposing heavy tarriffs, transfer payments, or negotiating directly between teams is the opposite of 'free market'

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05-20-2012, 04:55 PM
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Yup, I agree.

I used to care for the Leafs, but they left nothing to care about. Just follow the Russians in the NHL, and mostly KHL/MHL.

Hockey in the NHL is OK, but I don't like their monopoly. Most NHL teams have 3-4 skilled players worth watching, after that it's dump and chase.

KHL, can be slow and boring, but at least everyone (except Vityaz) tries to play skillfully. I wouldn't want KHL to have monopoly either. But fair competition is good.
There is your problem. The Leafs are the perennial loosers of the NHL Switch to the Caps or NJ

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