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Old
05-19-2012, 04:09 PM
  #1
CodeE
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Mtl/nyi


P.K. Subban
33rd Overall


Calvin DeHaan
4th Overall

With Subban campaigning for Tavares in the NHL 13 cover vote, it got me thinking what it would cost to get him in an Islanders uniform.

Islanders get a top-4 defenseman who can play the PP and PK. With picks 33 + 34, they can either package them together and move back up into the 1st round, or stay put and draft two guys back-to-back. Either way, Subban is extremely marketable, and is already practically everything we hope Dumba can one day become.

Montreal gets a smooth skating defenseman in DeHaan. He can't replace Subban's physicality but Tinordi should be ready soon. More importantly, Montreal gets 2 of the top 4 picks, and has a ton of leeway in rebuilding their roster. Two of Grigorenko/Forsberg/Gally makes Montreal real dangerous going forward.

Thoughts?

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Old
05-19-2012, 04:18 PM
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HooliganX2
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While the value may be fair I don't see Canadian fans going for it. They know what they have at an NHL level in Subban. The draft pick could end up a better NHL player or it could end up a bust. No real point in moving young talent for draft picks unless you have to.

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05-19-2012, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by CodeE View Post
Thoughts?
Thanks but no thanks. P.K. is a reasonably good NHLer right now who eats important minutes, and it's not worth risking it. Also, rushing Tinordi will almost assuredly ruin him, so that's not particularly compelling. He probably won't be a regular NHL roster player until 2014 or later if ever. This would pretty much promise another 15th place finish and extend what already looks like a seriously long and painful rebuild. Pass.

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05-19-2012, 04:31 PM
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Sidney the Kidney
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If Montreal is rebuilding, why would they deal a young defenseman who is on the cusp of being an NHL star?

Subban is the kind of defenseman teams hope that 4th overall pick turns out to be. So it doesn't really make sense to trade him, in hopes they can pick up a guy who will ... become like him one day.

I don't mean this in a sarcastic way, but would the Isles trade Travis Hamonic to the Leafs for the 5th overall pick?

(ps. I know it wasn't a one-for-one deal, but the important pieces to the deal are Subban and the 4th overall pick)

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Old
05-19-2012, 04:35 PM
  #5
CodeE
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I understand where you guys are coming from but - and this is an outsider's perspective so forgive me if I'm wrong - Montreal seems to be a team with a great young goalie locked up, good defensive depth (Tinordi, Beaulieu in the last draft), but one with one glaring problem: your top scorers are Pacioretty, Erik Cole, and Desharnais. Whichever forward you draft at 3 (I'd be shocked if they take another defenseman) is instantly your top forward prospect, getting two of them gives Montreal depth in all three areas.

Meanwhile, DeHaan is ready to step into a regular NHL role next season. If this is done at the draft, Montreal can use the added salary to sign a stopgap UFA like Bryan Allen or Barret Jackman because, despite their poor performance this season, Montreal is still an attractive free agent destination.

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05-19-2012, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I don't mean this in a sarcastic way, but would the Isles trade Travis Hamonic to the Leafs for the 5th overall pick?

(ps. I know it wasn't a one-for-one deal, but the important pieces to the deal are Subban and the 4th overall pick)
No, but that's only because the Islanders don't have very many defenseman and trading Hamonic would make the team even weaker. If we had drafted Fowler & Hamilton instead of Nino & Strome, I might consider moving Hamonic for the 5th and drafting a stud forward.

Also, I think we can all agree DeHaan is worth more than an early 2nd pick. It's not simply Subban for the 4th.

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05-19-2012, 04:47 PM
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You're not totally wrong, but you're still not quite right, either. A trade around P.K. is complicated because at the moment he's probably our best defenceman, and our D corps is pretty much universally regarded as horrible. Without P.K. we're left with Gorges (good, but not a star and he's had injury problems), Markov (which nobody can rely on playing a full season ever again), Emelin (future looks bright but he's still very green), Campoli (lol), Kaberle (), Diaz (complicated, probably in Hamilton in 12-13), and Weber (who sucks). DeHaan would be yet another rookie on a squad loaded with rookies, fragile veterans, and terrible veterans. Signing Allen would be nice, but we're Montreal. We have to overpay, which sucks with the Gomez and Price as an RFA situations.

It's just not in the cards.

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Old
05-19-2012, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeE View Post

P.K. Subban
33rd Overall


Calvin DeHaan
4th Overall

With Subban campaigning for Tavares in the NHL 13 cover vote, it got me thinking what it would cost to get him in an Islanders uniform.

Islanders get a top-4 defenseman who can play the PP and PK. With picks 33 + 34, they can either package them together and move back up into the 1st round, or stay put and draft two guys back-to-back. Either way, Subban is extremely marketable, and is already practically everything we hope Dumba can one day become.

Montreal gets a smooth skating defenseman in DeHaan. He can't replace Subban's physicality but Tinordi should be ready soon. More importantly, Montreal gets 2 of the top 4 picks, and has a ton of leeway in rebuilding their roster. Two of Grigorenko/Forsberg/Gally makes Montreal real dangerous going forward.

Thoughts?
It's probably pretty fair value.21 yr old De Haan looks nhl ready or pretty close to it.

I'm not sure why Montreal does this without an overpayment though.They can land one of the potentially elite forwards at #3.

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Old
05-19-2012, 04:49 PM
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I would do this from NYI but I dont think MTL does this, value looks good though imo

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Old
05-19-2012, 04:51 PM
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Sidney the Kidney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeE View Post
No, but that's only because the Islanders don't have very many defenseman and trading Hamonic would make the team even weaker. If we had drafted Fowler & Hamilton instead of Nino & Strome, I might consider moving Hamonic for the 5th and drafting a stud forward.
Aren't you suggesting de Haan is close to NHL-ready and a top prospect? Add in Donovan, and that's two prospects that could be top-4 blueliners soon, which is what you're reasoning Tinordi and Beaulieu will be to enable the Habs to deal Subban. So aren't the Isles in the exact same position as the Habs, and thus Hamonic could be dealt for the 5th overall pick?

Not to harp on it, but to me it just doesn't make sense dealing a player Subban's age, with his potential, AND with what he's already proven he can do at the NHL level, just because you have one or two nice prospects. As we've seen countless times, prospects don't always pan out. So Montreal banking on both Tinordi and Beaulieu as a reason for dealing Subban would be a bit foolish, IMO.

Quote:
Also, I think we can all agree DeHaan is worth more than an early 2nd pick. It's not simply Subban for the 4th.
To clarify, I wasn't necessarily commenting on the value of the pieces involved, just the ... I guess ... rationale behind Montreal dealing Subban in order to acquire the 4th overall pick.

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Old
05-19-2012, 04:53 PM
  #11
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PS. I think I butchered the spelling of Beaulieu's name. I ALWAYS have trouble with those French names with more than 2 vowels in a row.

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Old
05-19-2012, 05:01 PM
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CodeE
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I get it. I still think eventually Montreal will need to trade defense for offense, but I understand not wanting to trade Subban, even if it does bring, say Gally & Grigorenko into the fold.

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Old
05-19-2012, 05:30 PM
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after getting ****ed over with Macdonagh we're not trading Subban. not. happening. you can have diaz or weber to be mentored by streit - and maybe somebody becomes available in a few years if bealieu or tinordi pan out. But subban is untouchable

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05-19-2012, 05:30 PM
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It's definitely one of the more reasonable trade proposals that I've seen on here, but I think most of us really like Subban and would rather keep him than take a risk on a prospect. Plus, we're hoping to only do a quick retool instead of a full rebuild.

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05-19-2012, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
after getting ****ed over with Macdonagh we're not trading Subban. not. happening. you can have diaz or weber to be mentored by streit - and maybe somebody becomes available in a few years if bealieu or tinordi pan out. But subban is untouchable
No interest in Weber or Diaz,with 4 pmd knocking on the door at Bridgeport.

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Old
05-19-2012, 06:13 PM
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no from Habs POV

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05-19-2012, 06:40 PM
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The value might be there, but Montreal doesn't move a fan favourite (who is also a lifelong habs fan) like Subban without a significant overpayment. the 4th overall pick is a great asset, but Montreal would probably be looking for a more proven young asset.

So, a no from Montreal.

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05-19-2012, 06:53 PM
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the only way I see the Habs moving Subban (which they won't) is as part of a package to get the 1st overall pick.

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05-19-2012, 07:03 PM
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the only way I see the Habs moving Subban (which they won't) is as part of a package to get the 1st overall pick.
I don't see yakupov as a reason to overpay and trade subban. Habs will pick at. #3 and build from there.

Subban is untouchable!

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05-19-2012, 07:33 PM
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Not a fan of stepping back to draft picks. Subban is already money in the bank as a young core building block, I wouldn't swap him for another uncertain draft pick. Pass.

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05-19-2012, 07:50 PM
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i like this deal for NYI

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05-19-2012, 08:03 PM
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Props OP, this is easily the best deal involving Subban I have seen in quite a while. It's good value and definitely something worth consideration but Montreal would pass. We know what is there with Subban and only a year ago he looked to be exceeding expectations. I won't lie though, it is tempting because I would then ship Plekanec to Anaheim for the sixth overall and that very well could result in Galchenyuk, Grigorenko and Frosberg all coming to Montreal. One hell of a rookie turn out. We could also take Dumba to replace Subban instead.

Hmm, definitely something to ponder on second thought. It means another year of being a lottery team but MacKinnon is thought to be a stellar prospect. Have to say, very appealing.

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05-19-2012, 08:04 PM
  #23
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There's not enough there to entice Montreal to make that trade.

Pretty fair value, but to get Montreal to consider trading Subban, let alone trading him you need to make Montreal look it over and say "as much as I love PK I simply can't say no to this trade". I would have to think someone like Ryan Strome coming the other way, De Haan sounds like a decent enough prospect but Subban is a legitimate top 4 d-man who may very well be a top 2 or even number 1 d-man in a few years.

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05-19-2012, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Props OP, this is easily the best deal involving Subban I have seen in quite a while. It's good value and definitely something worth consideration but Montreal would pass. We know what is there with Subban and only a year ago he looked to be exceeding expectations. I won't lie though, it is tempting because I would then ship Plekanec to Anaheim for the sixth overall and that very well could result in Galchenyuk, Grigorenko and Frosberg all coming to Montreal. One hell of a rookie turn out. We could also take Dumba to replace Subban instead.

Hmm, definitely something to ponder on second thought. It means another year of being a lottery team but MacKinnon is thought to be a stellar prospect. Have to say, very appealing.
I love prospects as much as the next guy but trading that much and gutting your team sure as hell doesn't entice Price or Pacioretty to stick around long term, and rest assured if the Habs did some full fledged rebuild type moves at the draft there's the risk of Price and Pacioretty both opting to take far shorter contracts and then hitting UFA in not very long at all.

Is Price going to sign for 6 years this Summer after the team just traded one of his best friends as well as one of their best d-men?

Galchenyuk, Forsberg and Dumba, or whichever 3 forwards they draft aren't going to come in next season or maybe even the season after and be difference makers.

For me, if the Habs can get another top 10 pick that would be awesome...the only problem is the guys who they should be considering moviing aren't that valuable outside of Plekanec. But I think they could make a move like that and still be very competitive next year. And the year after as well. I kind of see the next 2 seasons as a holding pattern for the Habs, they'll be competitive and maybe even win some playoff series but some older contracts will be coming off the books and some guys who are tweeners right now will either be established by then or have young blood to replace them.

But that doesn't mean the Habs shouldn't do everything in their power to try to win the cup as early as next season. Look at Jersey this year after last season. And Jersey didn't have any young guys step up big this season outside of Henrique and Larsson and while they were solid neither Henrique has not lit the world on fire during the playoffs and Larsson hasn't even played much at all.

But this was a good trade proposal, just not enough of a sure thing in De Haan or that 4th overall pick to justify trading Subban, who at 23 could very well be a mainstay top pairing guy in the NHL for the next 12-15 years.

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Old
05-19-2012, 08:11 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
There's not enough there to entice Montreal to make that trade.

Pretty fair value, but to get Montreal to consider trading Subban, let alone trading him you need to make Montreal look it over and say "as much as I love PK I simply can't say no to this trade". I would have to think someone like Ryan Strome coming the other way, De Haan sounds like a decent enough prospect but Subban is a legitimate top 4 d-man who may very well be a top 2 or even number 1 d-man in a few years.
No thanks.

Isles have pmd Donovan developing well,which I'm guessing, is why the OP put De Haan in the offer.

No interest in moving Strome.

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