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06-12-2012, 04:35 PM
  #626
Haute Couturier
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Uh-oh, Lappy says the trades were good and Giroux wouldn't be who he was today if Richards and Carter stayed. This is going to be a tricky situation for posters. Usually when a fan favorite says anything it is taken as the gospel truth and everyone follows suit. Also when someone says something that backs up their opinion it is 100% accurate and cannot be refuted. Now a fan favorite is saying something that the fans don't agree with!?!?!?! Will people say Lappy is stupid? Will they change their minds? Or will it just be ignored? Hmm...
Wow someone employed by the Flyers is towing the party line. What a shock.

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06-12-2012, 04:39 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Wow someone employed by the Flyers is towing the party line. What a shock.
Lappy is a pretty plain-spoken guy..I doubt his comments are simply b/c he's a "company guy."

Plenty of times he's leveled criticisms against the Flyers and some of their players..he did it last year in the playoffs. Tocchet did as well....and it was against some fan "favorites."

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06-12-2012, 04:40 PM
  #628
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Wow someone employed by the Flyers is towing the party line. What a shock.
Even if he does believe what he is saying, this is the truth.

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06-12-2012, 04:40 PM
  #629
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Hawks fan here in peace. I wouldn't doubt the trade, really. I don't think the Kings would have lost the cup w/o Richards/Carter anymore than you would have won the cup w/ them in Philly.
I don't know about this. Kings would have certainly lost a few more games. Maybe lost the cup altogether had it not been for those 2. They were very instrumental. Carts was huge...Richie contributed but I thought he played much smaller in these playoffs cause I think he's got physical issues/injuries...

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06-12-2012, 04:42 PM
  #630
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Uh-oh, Lappy says the trades were good and Giroux wouldn't be who he was today if Richards and Carter stayed. This is going to be a tricky situation for posters. Usually when a fan favorite says anything it is taken as the gospel truth and everyone follows suit. Also when someone says something that backs up their opinion it is 100% accurate and cannot be refuted. Now a fan favorite is saying something that the fans don't agree with!?!?!?! Will people say Lappy is stupid? Will they change their minds? Or will it just be ignored? Hmm...
I wouldn't trust the accuracy of anything coming from Carchidi which pertains to Richards and, if accurate, how old is the hear-say quote from Lappy and I wonder what he's saying now.

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06-12-2012, 04:43 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
I guess Holmgren should crawl up into a little ball in the corner of his or Snider's office then and take this offseason off?

No organization is without it's red flags including LA now with having to maintain some of their players like Quick.

We're in way better shape than a lot of teams.....
Nope. I'm not all doom and gloom. This group has 2-3 years minimum together and we will see what they can do.

However I'd rather be in LAs organizational shoes, who woudnt.. Deep organization...you can lose JJ and fill with Voynov and still have ammo in the farm. Quick goes(I doubt it)??still have top prospect in bernier who isn't chopped liver.

The Kings paid 5-6 seasons to get here though...they have EARNED it...patience paid off. It almost cost DL his job though.

I mean, we thought with us...here we are...rebooted the org...got young players and some pics...rebuild the D!!! Ohh trade for grossmann...ok he's young enough good 3/4/5 guy...umm trade for kubina...fail....


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06-12-2012, 04:47 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
Lappy is a pretty plain-spoken guy..I doubt his comments are simply b/c he's a "company guy."

Plenty of times he's leveled criticisms against the Flyers and some of their players..he did it last year in the playoffs. Tocchet did as well....and it was against some fan "favorites."
You don't think the Flyers are trying to do damage control right now? I have a bridge to sell you.

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06-12-2012, 04:47 PM
  #633
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I feel like a lot of us forget that Holmgren didn't trade both players to LA. Instead of throwing Homer under the bus and backing up on him time and time again, we should give Lombardi the congrats for putting together a great team. Homer never thought when he traded them that they would end up on the same team by the end of this season.

I personally like the trades. There was reasons why we will never know for them being traded out of here. Homer just signed them to long term deals, he just didn't say one day we can't win with them. I was sad to see them go, but have moved on. I trust this franchise to do everything in it's power to win, and if that meant trading them two then so be it.

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06-12-2012, 04:49 PM
  #634
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
You don't think the Flyers are trying to do damage control right now? I have a bridge to sell you.
Sure but I still believe that Lappy believes in what he's saying. I don't think he's being all doom and gloom like some people on here....

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06-12-2012, 04:51 PM
  #635
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
I guess Holmgren should crawl up into a little ball in the corner of his or Snider's office then and take this offseason off?

No organization is without it's red flags including LA now with having to maintain some of their players like Quick.

We're in way better shape than a lot of teams.....
LA is in very good shape for at least the next few years. The core of their team is young and signed long term, along with one of the top defensemen in the league. The only critical player they have to resign after next season is Quick. They were able to trade Jack Johnson because they had Voynov in the wings, who needed to be playing. They have forwards in the AHL who are ready to take the next step, and ones that will be ready in a year or two.

The Flyers have nowhere near that depth, and a limited number of picks to help restock the cupboard thanks to Holmgren throwing away 2nd rounders like they were candy.

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06-12-2012, 04:51 PM
  #636
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
Sure but I still believe that Lappy believes in what he's saying. I don't think he's being all doom and gloom like some people on here....
He may not be lying, but he has an obvious bias as a Flyers employee. Edited to add: This is a guy who is also hoping to be the next Phantoms coach. He isn't going to say anything to rock the boat.

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06-12-2012, 04:52 PM
  #637
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
You don't think the Flyers are trying to do damage control right now? I have a bridge to sell you.
Ding Ding Ding!!

Exactly.

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06-12-2012, 04:55 PM
  #638
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I feel like a lot of us forget that Holmgren didn't trade both players to LA. Instead of throwing Homer under the bus and backing up on him time and time again, we should give Lombardi the congrats for putting together a great team. Homer never thought when he traded them that they would end up on the same team by the end of this season.

I personally like the trades. There was reasons why we will never know for them being traded out of here. Homer just signed them to long term deals, he just didn't say one day we can't win with them. I was sad to see them go, but have moved on. I trust this franchise to do everything in it's power to win, and if that meant trading them two then so be it.
There's little doubt in my mind that Snider told Homer, in no uncertain terms, "either they go or you go and I'll find someone else who'll submit to my desires and trade them away."

Couturier and Schenn are special hockey players with serious potential and immense promise. Two to three years from now, when they are both integral parts of a Flyers Stanley Cup championship team, I hope people are able to dig up these threads and we can all share a good laugh.

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06-12-2012, 04:55 PM
  #639
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Did we trade Kopitar, Brown, Doughty and Quick to them?

Between them they managed 28 points in 20 games which is alright, but hardly catalyst form.
You can spin it that way... Some may also say that without Richie and Carts, the Kings, with those players mentioned above, petered out in the first round of the playoffs...Which they did.

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06-12-2012, 04:55 PM
  #640
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I thought we were knocking on the door to the cup if we kept Richards and Carter and somehow just got a goalie?
I never claimed that. But to say we are 100% better off is dubious; for all we know we are worse off and don't know it yet. We are different, like Holmgren said...that's really the best way to put it.

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06-12-2012, 04:57 PM
  #641
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Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
There's little doubt in my mind that Snider told Homer, in no uncertain terms, "either they go or you go and I'll find someone else who'll submit to my desires and trade them away."

Couturier and Schenn are special hockey players with serious potential and immense promise. Two to three years from now, when they are both integral parts of a Flyers Stanley Cup championship team, I hope people are able to dig up these threads and we're all able to share a good laugh.
I think there is a 80% chance one of them is gone 3 years from now.

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06-12-2012, 04:58 PM
  #642
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I think there is a 80% chance one of them is gone 3 years from now.
Because...?

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06-12-2012, 05:00 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
There's little doubt in my mind that Snider told Homer, in no uncertain terms, "either they go or you go and I'll find someone else who'll submit to my desires and trade them away."

Couturier and Schenn are special hockey players with serious potential and immense promise. Two to three years from now, when they are both integral parts of a Flyers Stanley Cup championship team, I hope people are able to dig up these threads and we're all able to share a good laugh.
If you believe that, you believe there was a good reason to trade them away then right? Homer reportedly took them on car rides privately to have talks with them. It's a speculation as why they were traded, but there is a reason for it. We may not be better now, but they have a promising future. Also believe Bryz will be much better next year with us, which was one of the reasons we struggled.

I am definitely a glass half full kinda of guy I guess

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06-12-2012, 05:01 PM
  #644
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Because...?
Giroux, Couturier and Schenn will hit restricted free agency at the same time. It's unlikely they will be able to afford to keep all three. Either they move one or they will have to gut the support players around them.

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06-12-2012, 05:03 PM
  #645
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
If you believe that, you believe there was a good reason to trade them away then right? Homer reportedly took them on car rides privately to have talks with them. It's a speculation as why they were traded, but there is a reason for it. We may not be better now, but they have a promising future. Also believe Bryz will be much better next year with us, which was one of the reasons we struggled.

I am definitely a glass half full kinda of guy I guess
Oh, I certainly believe there was a good reason -- multiple reasons, in fact -- to trade them away. I even wrote an article about it for SB Nation Philly, entitled "Something Was Rotten in Philadelphia." I also believe Homer didn't want to make the trades and would've rather been able to find a solution that kept both Richards and Carter here, but that he was overruled by his cranky and irate superior.

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06-12-2012, 05:07 PM
  #646
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Giroux, Couturier and Schenn will hit restricted free agency at the same time. It's unlikely they will be able to afford to keep all three. Either they move one or they will have to gut the support players around them.
They didn't assemble that kind of center depth just to have to scrap it three years later. Homer and company will find a way to keep them without destroying the team in the process. Also, what's key is that each player will be a restricted free agent, not unrestricted, so the Flyers will be able to maintain some level of control over the situation.

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06-12-2012, 05:07 PM
  #647
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Giroux, Couturier and Schenn will hit restricted free agency at the same time. It's unlikely they will be able to afford to keep all three. Either they move one or they will have to gut the support players around them.
This is a few years out...so it's a little early to worry about this. Lots of things may happen between now and then.

And, I'd trade Schenn+ now for a top D man his age.

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06-12-2012, 05:08 PM
  #648
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Personally I do think Kopitar's a better all around player. That doesn't matter though even if they play 2nd fiddle to Giroux it doesn't turn our defense into theirs or Bryz into Quick. They were pieces that put LA over the top, but do people really think things would've been the same here? I'm still happy with these trades after watching them win The Cup. It was actually really nice seeing the former Flyers raise The Cup for me. Congrats Kings
They may not "would've" but they still "could've." I don't take issue with the actual trades, but what I do take issue with is how anyone could sit here and say with certainly that it was never going to happen given how close we were two years ago.

And I certainly respect Lappy, but I disagree with his assessment. I don't know why Giroux needed Carter and Richards to leave to become a better player, we didn't need Giroux to become one of the Top 5 players in the league to win a Cup. Kopitar getting Richards behind him made him a better player, just like Ryan Kesler getting Manny Malholtra behind him made him a better offensive player. If Giroux was the best offensive player on the team, he should have been used in the best offensive situations.

I have confidence the Flyers have a group of players that will get it done, but we need to make sure that they actually get it done, here, for the Flyers.

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Oh, I certainly believe there was a good reason -- multiple reasons, in fact -- to trade them away. I even wrote an article about it for SB Nation Philly, entitled "Something Was Rotten in Philadelphia." I also believe Homer didn't want to make the trades and would've rather been able to find a solution that kept both Richards and Carter here, but that he was overruled by his cranky and irate superior.


I'm still there on that too.

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06-12-2012, 05:09 PM
  #649
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Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
Oh, I certainly believe there was a good reason -- multiple reasons, in fact -- to trade them away. I even wrote an article about it for SB Nation Philly, entitled "Something Was Rotten in Philadelphia." I also believe Homer didn't want to make the trades and would've rather been able to find a solution that kept both Richards and Carter here, but that he was overruled by his cranky and irate superior.
The only thing I disagree with here is that I think it was Homer's move not Snider's. He wanted to keep them, but felt they needed to change the locker room. It started with Carter and Richards. Like he said it made them different, but I am willing to give them 3-4 years before saying this trade looks horrible for us.

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06-12-2012, 05:09 PM
  #650
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
The future is brighter than it was, because the team was backed against a wall. I wouldn't call it blinding, though. There are still loads of issues, some of them created by the moves.
Just so I don't respond and put words in your mouth, are you saying that the trade was not a good trade because you think Homer made bad moves before and that somehow discredits the trades that people are talking about?

Quote:
Remember, this guy works for the Flyers. He's not going to say "wow these trades were awful."
That's right, people only say what they mean when it supports your cause. If it doesn't they are only saying it because they are Flyers guys or they are uninformed or making it up. I knew people would say something like this, which is why I posted the quotes in the first place. This place is so predictable.

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