HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Kings' Success & Holmgren

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-15-2012, 08:47 PM
  #826
GoneFullHextall
RIP Andy B.
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 36,635
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Another person who said 'they couldn't win' with Carter and Richards. Well, another team did - the very next year. If another team could do it, I don't know why this one couldn't.
Richards and Carter went front playing in front of a AHL goalie to a Vezina caliber goalie. That had a lot to do with them winning a Cup. you put a "stacked" team in front of **** in goal the results are still predictable. even with the "system".

Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Drew Doughty? There's a word you would have to use, that begins with R and not T, which would get you nailed to the Cross if you even utter it around these parts. Unless our draft scouts are savvy enough to find a Shea Weber.

The fourth guy I assume is the goaltender. If you believe Jonathan Quick would have remained as the undisputed #1 goaltender in this town after the first two playoffs he had, that bridge being sold earlier in the thread is still for sale.



Bob Clarke tried to trade Eric Lindros for Keith Primeau, but Snider would have none of that. Rod Brind'Amour went instead. Lindros ended up not being far behind that door.
If the Flyers had drafted Doughty they no doubt would of traded him for some 30 year old plus defenseman.
I would imagine there would of been at least a dozen threads wanting to get Quick run out of town after his prior NHL playoff runs.
That whole situation pissed me off for a long time. Lindros should have been traded. Snider was more worried about the fan backlash of trading the great Eric Lindros who really delivered on everything he was brought here to do.
Instead the real leader of the Flyers was traded.


Last edited by GoneFullHextall: 06-15-2012 at 09:02 PM.
GoneFullHextall is offline  
Old
06-15-2012, 09:46 PM
  #827
MsWoof
Registered User
 
MsWoof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Because the whole premise was to get those two and a few other young guys to tone it down a notch and dedicate themselves a little more to the team. Drinking wasn't an issue for most of the veterans. Why would Pronger, Timmo, or Briere have to put their # on the board in the first place?

Between the three of them they have something like 12 kids. Off the ice stuff by them wasn't a concern of Lavy.
If they're the wonderful leaders they're painted to be, they should have done it. Pronger especially. As far as what Timonen, Briere and Pronger do in their private life, you have no idea, nor do I.

MsWoof is offline  
Old
06-15-2012, 09:49 PM
  #828
zarley zelepukin
Registered User
 
zarley zelepukin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Norristown, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
No, you are not understanding what I am saying.

In Philly, Richards was the face of the franchise.

In Los Angeles, he is not.

Therefor, less pressure.

It has nothing to do with Philly having "venomous fans".


I understand that. I am not saying it was their fault for how things ended. Unfortunately, the city and management anointed them the face(s) of the franchise, and then soured on that decision years later.

I'm not blaming anybody here. No one is necessarily at fault. I'm just answering your earlier question of why we couldnt win with them but LA could.


It's less about pressure to score when you're the face of the franchise as it is pressure to win.

If the Flyers lose, Scott Hartnell doesnt get blamed for the loss.

But, say, if the Capitals lose (which they do), Ovechkin routinely gets blamed for it even though it's not his fault.

That's the kind of pressure I'm referring to. Richards doesnt get that in LA. He got that in Philly.

Does that make a little more sense? It goes beyond being the best player when you are anointed "the face of the franchise". For some players, it works, for others it doesnt.
What I think you're saying is "less pressure in LA = easier for them to win there than here." And I don't buy it at all, because their on ice roles are pretty much the same and because their performances weren't different than what they showed here when they were healthy.

zarley zelepukin is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 10:24 AM
  #829
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 116,381
vCash: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I understand that. I am not saying it was their fault for how things ended. Unfortunately, the city and management anointed them the face(s) of the franchise, and then soured on that decision years later.

I'm not blaming anybody here. No one is necessarily at fault. I'm just answering your earlier question of why we couldnt win with them but LA could.


It's less about pressure to score when you're the face of the franchise as it is pressure to win.

If the Flyers lose, Scott Hartnell doesnt get blamed for the loss.

But, say, if the Capitals lose (which they do), Ovechkin routinely gets blamed for it even though it's not his fault.

That's the kind of pressure I'm referring to. Richards doesnt get that in LA. He got that in Philly.

Does that make a little more sense? It goes beyond being the best player when you are anointed "the face of the franchise". For some players, it works, for others it doesnt.
Ovechkin is blamed more out of ignorance as well. He's well over a point-per-game in the playoffs, and he's either there or close to that in elimination games.

Scott Hartnell had a great year, so people like me who criticized him kept their mouths shut, but there were still people who were looking for him vs. Pittsburgh, and he finally got on track in the last two games.

It is a different kind of pressure, but there was still pressure on Richards. He was brought in to the Kings to put them over the top. And if it didn't work, the front office was going to be cleaned out. Not many other places to go in terms in pressure. Especially since during the regular season, it looked real bad considering how well Simmonds and Schenn were playing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Richards and Carter went front playing in front of a AHL goalie to a Vezina caliber goalie. That had a lot to do with them winning a Cup. you put a "stacked" team in front of **** in goal the results are still predictable. even with the "system".
Exactly, the team they built still wasn't enough, and Holmgren didn't want to try to upgrade the position giving up low value. They had no goaltender and only 4 defensemen. I'd say that didn't help Pronger's back issues last season, and which certainly didn't help against Boston last year.

__________________
Philadelphia's Real Alternative
(ynotradio.net)

Stop Feeding the Rumor-Monger

"I wonder if Norstrom has Forsberg's spleen mounted on his wall." - KINGS17

My 50 Favorite Albums of 2014 (sorry it's late)

Last edited by GKJ: 06-16-2012 at 10:32 AM.
GKJ is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 12:18 PM
  #830
funghoul
retardo montalbon
 
funghoul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: upper drugs
Country: United States
Posts: 1,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Contrary to popular belief, size ones balls has little to do with whether they are successful.

If you were tired of one of the leagues top 5 two way fwds in the game, and our captain, then perhaps you shouldn't be telling me to go root for another team. Maybe you should go shopping yourself.
It's not about whether i like him as a player. i think he's a really good player. its about the flyers and our needs as a team to win a stanley cup. you gotta understand, i watch this like a soap opera. i love when we get new pieces and watch them try to fit all this together. Thats why i'm a huge flyers fan cause i don't think there's a more entertaining team in the league, regardless of championships. la kings deserved to win a cup. no question. i just wish they could've done it with players that were a little less connected to our most recent cup disappointment. i'm obviously jealous.

funghoul is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 01:02 PM
  #831
Amateur Hour
Registered User
 
Amateur Hour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Negadelphia
Posts: 6,507
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
How many instances in NHL history have there been like this? Where a team moves on from two major, super-important core players, only to then see them win a Cup soon after (let alone the next season).

All my sports hate aside, I don't even know how some of you guys can deal with this.
By forcing ourselves to put things in perspective with the "it's just a game/there are more important things in life" realization. Luckily, the Eagles conditioned me for that years ago.

Then, of course, there's the part where we convince ourselves that Couturier and Schenn will one day be players similar to or better than Carter and Richards and help lead us to a Cup. It's pretty much all we have at this point.

Amateur Hour is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 01:03 PM
  #832
MsWoof
Registered User
 
MsWoof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
It's not about whether i like him as a player. i think he's a really good player. its about the flyers and our needs as a team to win a stanley cup. you gotta understand, i watch this like a soap opera. i love when we get new pieces and watch them try to fit all this together. Thats why i'm a huge flyers fan cause i don't think there's a more entertaining team in the league, regardless of championships. la kings deserved to win a cup. no question. i just wish they could've done it with players that were a little less connected to our most recent cup disappointment. i'm obviously jealous.
I'm sick to death of the soap opera. While Richards, Carter, Gagne and Williams were celebrating a cup, what was the big news here? JvR allegedly putting off surgery so he wouldn't be traded to Columbus. I'm sick and tired of the leaks that come out of the organizations and about the stupid sources that all of the Flyers media use. This is not professional behaviour and I bet almost all the leaks are done so intentionally.

MsWoof is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 01:27 PM
  #833
Giroux tha Damaja
Registered User
 
Giroux tha Damaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,245
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Giroux tha Damaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I'm sick to death of the soap opera. While Richards, Carter, Gagne and Williams were celebrating a cup, what was the big news here? JvR allegedly putting off surgery so he wouldn't be traded to Columbus. I'm sick and tired of the leaks that come out of the organizations and about the stupid sources that all of the Flyers media use. This is not professional behaviour and I bet almost all the leaks are done so intentionally.
What do you like about the Flyers organization? What brings you back here?

EDIT: Those are not rhetorical questions being asked to make a point. I enjoy talking hockey with you, I just wonder what it is you enjoy about the team sometimes.

Giroux tha Damaja is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 01:54 PM
  #834
35NW8ING
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
35NW8ING's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
If they're the wonderful leaders they're painted to be, they should have done it. Pronger especially.
The exercise was about people on the team who management felt would become more focused and dedicated if they pledged to abstain from alcohol.

Timonen, Briere and Pronger were already doing it (not literally). The three of them are easily the biggest family men on the team. They were already leading by example. True professionals off the ice all the time. Their dedication and commitment have never been questioned.

Think of it this way. Say someone in the room was a recovering alcoholic and had abstained from drinking for x number of days. It's patently obvious to his teammates that he doesn't drink so he would have no need to "pledge" not to drink.

Conversely, your captain should be the FIRST one to put his # on the board, while he is explaining the challenge to his teammates after practice. Lavy had to present it to the team. Speaks volumes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
As far as what Timonen, Briere and Pronger do in their private life, you have no idea, nor do I.
Actually I do. I have been close to this team, mostly with management and a few players, for 20+ years. I can tell you unequivocally that alcohol has never been an issue for any of them as far as management is concerned.

35NW8ING is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 02:01 PM
  #835
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Doof Warrior
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 50,876
vCash: 500
Half the population of southeast Pennsylvania claims to have inside info on the team. If I had a dime for every time someone has claimed that, I'd have a whole lot of dimes. A downright silly amount of dimes.

Beef Invictus is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 03:31 PM
  #836
FlyerSithLord
Registered User
 
FlyerSithLord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Tinicum
Country: United States
Posts: 2,127
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FlyerSithLord
I don't post here that often, but I wanted to drop in and give my opinion on this topic.

I was against the Richards trade when it happened and still am today. I am very much worried about the reactionary philosophy that this team employs.

Trade two young stars in the prime of their career to get out from big long term contracts and gain youth and turn around and sign a 30 y.o goaltender to a 9 year deal. Only time will be able to tell whether or not Bryz was the right guy.

FlyerSithLord is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 03:45 PM
  #837
funghoul
retardo montalbon
 
funghoul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: upper drugs
Country: United States
Posts: 1,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyerSithLord View Post
I don't post here that often, but I wanted to drop in and give my opinion on this topic.

I was against the Richards trade when it happened and still am today. I am very much worried about the reactionary philosophy that this team employs.

Trade two young stars in the prime of their career to get out from big long term contracts and gain youth and turn around and sign a 30 y.o goaltender to a 9 year deal. Only time will be able to tell whether or not Bryz was the right guy.
I didn't like the second guessing on a player we made captain either but i also trusted that there were things going on behind the scenes that i am unaware of. its up to management to assess things and i do believe in laviolette and his system. I also believe they really felt richards and carter were regressing a little and looked at those no trade clauses and freaked out. it was simple. take those two contracts, get max value, sign a mature goalie in his prime that takes care of himself and can give us at least 6 or 7 years on that contract and bring in young, impressionable, high end talent that lavi can mold without what i assume was a lot of resistance on richards and carter's part and make the most of the next 2 or 3 good years left with pronger. then pronger goes down, bryz can't adjust quick enough and the kings win a cup. firkin disaster. i still like our system though and our players and i do believe in bryzgalov. but this is it. he's had his year to get used to things. he better be on from beginning to end or it will be a complete bust.

funghoul is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 03:59 PM
  #838
FlyerSithLord
Registered User
 
FlyerSithLord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Tinicum
Country: United States
Posts: 2,127
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FlyerSithLord
Quote:
Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
I didn't like the second guessing on a player we made captain either but i also trusted that there were things going on behind the scenes that i am unaware of. its up to management to assess things and i do believe in laviolette and his system. I also believe they really felt richards and carter were regressing a little and looked at those no trade clauses and freaked out. it was simple. take those two contracts, get max value, sign a mature goalie in his prime that takes care of himself and can give us at least 6 or 7 years on that contract and bring in young, impressionable, high end talent that lavi can mold without what i assume was a lot of resistance on richards and carter's part and make the most of the next 2 or 3 good years left with pronger. then pronger goes down, bryz can't adjust quick enough and the kings win a cup. firkin disaster. i still like our system though and our players and i do believe in bryzgalov. but this is it. he's had his year to get used to things. he better be on from beginning to end or it will be a complete bust.
I don't think there were things going on behind the scenes, but I doubt we'll ever truly know. Even still, if there were, I doubt they developed over night, why give out the contracts then? I don't like the message it sends to our young players, "Give us a home town discount and in two years we'll trade you anyway".

I also don't know how you can consider two 27 y.o cornerstones, one with a track record of winning at every level he's been at, regressing after one injury plagued season.

I didn't watch a whole lot of Bryzgalov in PHX. I was excited to see what he could do here, but stunned when he got a HUGE contract after 2-3 straight years of the goalie market trending down. I worry about his psyche and hope they did the proper diligence on him. It's one thing to struggle in a new environment, it's a whole nother to let in soft goal after soft goal.

I also can't blame management for Pronger getting hurt. I do question management's decision to hand the team to him though. I love Pronger, but wasn't there rumblings in Edmonton and Anaheim about him being a bit of an ass? I know he asked out of Edmonton because of his wife, but could've sworn I heard other stories about him being a bit of a tough teammate.

Lastly, I don't have that much faith in Lavy's system. This team doesn't have the defensive ability to play stretch hockey. When there offense is firing, they look great, but when a team gets going against them, the spend full periods in their own end. That doesn't give me much hope for future success either.

Lastly, someone posted that Giroux and Co. beat Pittsburgh, something Richards/Carter never did here. I'd argue that while Giroux was a monster in the series(as was Couturier), Marc-Andre Fleury played the biggest part in every Flyers/Pens series of the past 5 years.

FlyerSithLord is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 04:31 PM
  #839
funghoul
retardo montalbon
 
funghoul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: upper drugs
Country: United States
Posts: 1,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyerSithLord View Post
I don't think there were things going on behind the scenes, but I doubt we'll ever truly know. Even still, if there were, I doubt they developed over night, why give out the contracts then? I don't like the message it sends to our young players, "Give us a home town discount and in two years we'll trade you anyway".

I also don't know how you can consider two 27 y.o cornerstones, one with a track record of winning at every level he's been at, regressing after one injury plagued season.

I didn't watch a whole lot of Bryzgalov in PHX. I was excited to see what he could do here, but stunned when he got a HUGE contract after 2-3 straight years of the goalie market trending down. I worry about his psyche and hope they did the proper diligence on him. It's one thing to struggle in a new environment, it's a whole nother to let in soft goal after soft goal.

I also can't blame management for Pronger getting hurt. I do question management's decision to hand the team to him though. I love Pronger, but wasn't there rumblings in Edmonton and Anaheim about him being a bit of an ass? I know he asked out of Edmonton because of his wife, but could've sworn I heard other stories about him being a bit of a tough teammate.

Lastly, I don't have that much faith in Lavy's system. This team doesn't have the defensive ability to play stretch hockey. When there offense is firing, they look great, but when a team gets going against them, the spend full periods in their own end. That doesn't give me much hope for future success either.

Lastly, someone posted that Giroux and Co. beat Pittsburgh, something Richards/Carter never did here. I'd argue that while Giroux was a monster in the series(as was Couturier), Marc-Andre Fleury played the biggest part in every Flyers/Pens series of the past 5 years.
i see your point. i was just as shocked as everybody when i heard richards was traded but his contract wasn't just signed yesterday. he was here for a while and i really don't know what the hell he was up to behind the scenes. i just know he was clutch shorthanded and was a good player. as far as bryzgalov, he did impress the hell outta me not only in phoenix but anaheim too. he was my favorite goalie to watch in the NHL outside of philly. that's why i was happy when we got him. he is literally who i would've chosen if i was g.m. and i still think he's our guy. but i'm not willing to give him anymore time as far as adjusting goes. he got a year, now its time to earn that cash. Pronger's a condescending dick but he's also one of the greatest defenseman in history. we built this team around him and it just sucks what happened. i do agree with that decision based off what i saw from him in the past and in his first season here. but what do i know. if we win a cup or two then who cares but if we don't, then make no mistake this will obviously be cut and dried. homer will have been responsible for some of the dumbest moves in our history. and i guess I'm an idiot for agreeing with them.

funghoul is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 05:07 PM
  #840
hockeyfreak7
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,891
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
What do you like about the Flyers organization? What brings you back here?

EDIT: Those are not rhetorical questions being asked to make a point. I enjoy talking hockey with you, I just wonder what it is you enjoy about the team sometimes.
I second this question. Some of the time (but really all of the time), I feel like MsWoof is trolling.


MsWoof, if you dont like the Flyers, nobody is forcing you to cheer for them. If you think the team is consistently unprofessional-- cheer for the Devils or the Wings. If you have an emotional connection with Richards and Carter-- cheer for the Kings. If you think the medical staff is incompetent (which I've seen you say before)-- go find a team with a better medical staff! Nobody is forcing you to cheer for the Flyers is it goes against every fiber in your body to like this team. Hell, if that's the case, cheer for the Pens

I mean, you dont have to be a positive person to be a fan...but, jeez, you cant hate the team you're a fan of

hockeyfreak7 is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 05:10 PM
  #841
MsWoof
Registered User
 
MsWoof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
The exercise was about people on the team who management felt would become more focused and dedicated if they pledged to abstain from alcohol.

Timonen, Briere and Pronger were already doing it (not literally). The three of them are easily the biggest family men on the team. They were already leading by example. True professionals off the ice all the time. Their dedication and commitment have never been questioned.

Think of it this way. Say someone in the room was a recovering alcoholic and had abstained from drinking for x number of days. It's patently obvious to his teammates that he doesn't drink so he would have no need to "pledge" not to drink.

Conversely, your captain should be the FIRST one to put his # on the board, while he is explaining the challenge to his teammates after practice. Lavy had to present it to the team. Speaks volumes.



Actually I do. I have been close to this team, mostly with management and a few players, for 20+ years. I can tell you unequivocally that alcohol has never been an issue for any of them as far as management is concerned.
Dry Island was one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of. If Richards was such a problem, why would the Kings, an organization who had a ton of ties to Philly take him, and then turn around and add Carter? Lombardi said he had a lot of friends in the Flyers' organization and talked to them ahead of time to find out if something was going on and he said he had no problems with them. Would he really risk bringing both of them to LA?

Pronger etc could have put their names on the list if they felt it would be a good example but the vets didn't do it. The only ones mentioned by name were Richards and Carter, and what a coincidence it was done just as Richards was flying to LA for his first presser with the media.

MsWoof is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 05:16 PM
  #842
MsWoof
Registered User
 
MsWoof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
What do you like about the Flyers organization? What brings you back here?

EDIT: Those are not rhetorical questions being asked to make a point. I enjoy talking hockey with you, I just wonder what it is you enjoy about the team sometimes.
Right now, not a lot. I've been a fan since 1974 which pre-dates most of you and I'm pissed right off that management has made one questionable move after another in recent years and have turned the Flyers from must-see to meh. Homer and Snider and their knee-jerk reactions without any thought beyond right now is pissing me off. There is always some contradiction, have good forwards and defence but AHL goaltending. Get younger by trading two 26 year olds abd bringing in 4 or 5 19-25 year olds then sign a 31 year old goalie who can't handle pressure to 9 years and an NTC. Bring in a 39 year old for $3.3 million. Continue to barely squeeze under the cap yet leave Shelley on the team even though he does nothing. Sign Lilja to a 35+ contract for 2 years when one would have been more than enough. Kubina for one of those ueless 2nd rounders for 2 months.

Is that enough?

MsWoof is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 05:35 PM
  #843
hockeyfreak7
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,891
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Right now, not a lot. I've been a fan since 1974 which pre-dates most of you and I'm pissed right off that management has made one questionable move after another in recent years and have turned the Flyers from must-see to meh. Homer and Snider and their knee-jerk reactions without any thought beyond right now is pissing me off. There is always some contradiction, have good forwards and defence but AHL goaltending. Get younger by trading two 26 year olds abd bringing in 4 or 5 19-25 year olds then sign a 31 year old goalie who can't handle pressure to 9 years and an NTC. Bring in a 39 year old for $3.3 million. Continue to barely squeeze under the cap yet leave Shelley on the team even though he does nothing. Sign Lilja to a 35+ contract for 2 years when one would have been more than enough. Kubina for one of those ueless 2nd rounders for 2 months.

Is that enough?
Seriously, if there's nothing you like about this team, then dont be a fan. I've never seen you say something positive about the team. Not even about Giroux. Every post you make about the Flyers is just some more incessant *****ing about how incompetent the team is. How Giroux sucks defensively. How the medical staff blows.

What keeps you coming back?

hockeyfreak7 is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 05:46 PM
  #844
TheLegendkiller
Registered User
 
TheLegendkiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Right now, not a lot. I've been a fan since 1974 which pre-dates most of you and I'm pissed right off that management has made one questionable move after another in recent years and have turned the Flyers from must-see to meh. Homer and Snider and their knee-jerk reactions without any thought beyond right now is pissing me off. There is always some contradiction, have good forwards and defence but AHL goaltending. Get younger by trading two 26 year olds abd bringing in 4 or 5 19-25 year olds then sign a 31 year old goalie who can't handle pressure to 9 years and an NTC. Bring in a 39 year old for $3.3 million. Continue to barely squeeze under the cap yet leave Shelley on the team even though he does nothing. Sign Lilja to a 35+ contract for 2 years when one would have been more than enough. Kubina for one of those ueless 2nd rounders for 2 months.

Is that enough?

How were they turned "must see" to "meh?" How are they a worst team then they've been the last few years? Right now they have an emerging star in Claude Giroux. Two blue chip prospects in Schenn an Couturier. A very bright future for in he forward core. A goalie that has the potential to be a vezina candidate. A coach that's won before. Veteran leadership and was no. 3 in points in the Eastern Conference without their no. 1 dman and a **** ton of other injuries. They took ot the favorities to come out of east with a bunch of rookies and patchwork defense. I'd say they're in a better position to win now and in the future than they have been in the past few years.

And how many times do I have to say this to you; when you get a lot of young players you need VETERAN EXPERIENCE to help them out. That's why Jagr was signed. That's why Briere, Hartnell, Timonen and Pronger were kept. Is it that hard to understand?

And **** the Kubina trade. They thought he could help. He didn't. **** happens, get over it. What would you have done? Every gm makes bad acquisitions from time to time. Stop being such a ******* debbie downer. You know what...maybe you should just spend the summer on the kings' board or something.

TheLegendkiller is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 05:50 PM
  #845
35NW8ING
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
35NW8ING's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Dry Island was one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of.
So Lavy was wrong is asking them to abstain from drinking because he and others felt it would be better for the team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
If Richards was such a problem, why would the Kings, an organization who had a ton of ties to Philly take him, and then turn around and add Carter? Lombardi said he had a lot of friends in the Flyers' organization and talked to them ahead of time to find out if something was going on and he said he had no problems with them. Would he really risk bringing both of them to LA?
It's no secret Lavy and Richards didn't see eye to eye. Richards never fully bought into his system. He didn't like the atmosphere here in the room. Carter is his best friend. They could have felt the same way about Lavy and his system.

Lombardi isn't going to come out and say what negatives people in the Flyers told him about Richards. He just traded for the guy. What GM trades for a guy, and then sits down with the media and discusses all the bad things between the player and his previous team or head coach?

You really believe no one in the organization discussed dry island or the problems between Lavy and Richards with Lombardi?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Pronger etc could have put their names on the list if they felt it would be a good example but the vets didn't do it.
It wasn't meant for the vets. The exercise was targeted at Richards, Carter, and other guys who in managements eyes, were partying a little too much. They felt it was interfering with preparation and dedication to the team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
The only ones mentioned by name were Richards and Carter, and what a coincidence it was done just as Richards was flying to LA for his first presser with the media.
Of course they were the only ones mentioned by name. It was done primarily because of them.

35NW8ING is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 06:33 PM
  #846
toughfighter83*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Right now, not a lot. I've been a fan since 1974 which pre-dates most of you and I'm pissed right off that management has made one questionable move after another in recent years and have turned the Flyers from must-see to meh. Homer and Snider and their knee-jerk reactions without any thought beyond right now is pissing me off. There is always some contradiction, have good forwards and defence but AHL goaltending. Get younger by trading two 26 year olds abd bringing in 4 or 5 19-25 year olds then sign a 31 year old goalie who can't handle pressure to 9 years and an NTC. Bring in a 39 year old for $3.3 million. Continue to barely squeeze under the cap yet leave Shelley on the team even though he does nothing. Sign Lilja to a 35+ contract for 2 years when one would have been more than enough. Kubina for one of those ueless 2nd rounders for 2 months.

Is that enough?
no true flyers fan would go against their own team no matter what the team does to make the team better because you wanted richards and carter here to win a cup, which in my mind they are truly not the right pieces, you can have them here again and wont make a difference or win a cup, it's reality, it's life, you cant have everything your way.

problem with you is that your are very impatient and so are alot of fans but the reality is, it's very difficult to win a cup no matter how good the team is because there's alot of pressure, boston won their cup last year, havent won it since 1970. im sure alot of boston fans stuck with their team all those years until they won one, if not shame on them.

another thing is that you think homer trading carter to LA is obsurd because he didnt, he traded him to columbus, i mean how did he know that columbus would trade him to la at the deadline? he didnt, neither did i, it just happened, it's something that was out of his control, he cant see the future of what columbus was going to do with carter, it's just not possible if he did then he would trade him to another team although i dont know how that would have worked, no one knew, not even me.


last thing, LA got hot at the end and got the teams they played that was in their favor in the playoffs, it's just the way it is sometimes and so was boston, im sure philla will get their way eventually, so im always holding out hope for this team as long as they make the playoffs and get better players every year, who knows what can happen as long as they always get better every year and eventually they will get their way as the same as LA,


injuries really bite this team too, you cant expect pronger was going to be injuried and out of the season, with him out of the season and playoffs, i got to admit i didnt see the flyers winning it, injuries were biting them left and right, if they were healthy, i believe they would probably have gone all the way, although i cant say that either because of the matchups.

you want to get off the flyers bandwagon, go head dont let the door hurt you in the butt on the way out, because eventually you'll regret it because you never know what can happen, they could be healthly and have favorable matchups and win it all in the playoffs, it comes down to that, if you root for another team and they fail then you be whinning on their forums, just like on the flyers.


stop whining like baby and deal with it, instead of complaining, how about trying to figure out how this team will better and upgrading their talent level because they can do it because carter and richards are gone, they are not coming back, that's life and business, so you cant have everything your way because it sometimes it just doesnt work out, that's the game of hockey.

toughfighter83* is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 06:47 PM
  #847
MsWoof
Registered User
 
MsWoof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
no true flyers fan would go against their own team no matter what the team does to make the team better because you wanted richards and carter here to win a cup, which in my mind they are truly not the right pieces, you can have them here again and wont make a difference or win a cup, it's reality, it's life, you cant have everything your way.

problem with you is that your are very impatient and so are alot of fans but the reality is, it's very difficult to win a cup no matter how good the team is because there's alot of pressure, boston won their cup last year, havent won it since 1970. im sure alot of boston fans stuck with their team all those years until they won one, if not shame on them.

another thing is that you think homer trading carter to LA is obsurd because he didnt, he traded him to columbus, i mean how did he know that columbus would trade him to la at the deadline? he didnt, neither did i, it just happened, it's something that was out of his control, he cant see the future of what columbus was going to do with carter, it's just not possible if he did then he would trade him to another team although i dont know how that would have worked, no one knew, not even me.


last thing, LA got hot at the end and got the teams they played that was in their favor in the playoffs, it's just the way it is sometimes and so was boston, im sure philla will get their way eventually, so im always holding out hope for this team as long as they make the playoffs and get better players every year, who knows what can happen as long as they always get better every year and eventually they will get their way as the same as LA,


injuries really bite this team too, you cant expect pronger was going to be injuried and out of the season, with him out of the season and playoffs, i got to admit i didnt see the flyers winning it, injuries were biting them left and right, if they were healthy, i believe they would probably have gone all the way, although i cant say that either because of the matchups.

you want to get off the flyers bandwagon, go head dont let the door hurt you in the butt on the way out, because eventually you'll regret it because you never know what can happen, they could be healthly and have favorable matchups and win it all in the playoffs, it comes down to that, if you root for another team and they fail then you be whinning on their forums, just like on the flyers.


stop whining like baby and deal with it, instead of complaining, how about trying to figure out how this team will better and upgrading their talent level because they can do it because carter and richards are gone, they are not coming back, that's life and business, so you cant have everything your way because it sometimes it just doesnt work out, that's the game of hockey.
Stop with this "true fan" BS.. I am a fan but I don't drink management's koolaid. End of story. When I see a plan by management in that we have promising prospects, a good core, solid depth throughout, I'll be happy. Until then I'll continue to question their moves.

As far as the comment above about me not liking Giroux, that's crap. I love his offense, drive and creativity. I don't like his defense. He's above average on the pk but terrible 5 on 5. I'd gladly see him sacrifice 15 points a year and see him really focus on defense.

MsWoof is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 06:53 PM
  #848
hockeyfreak7
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,891
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Stop with this "true fan" BS.. I am a fan but I don't drink management's koolaid. End of story. When I see a plan by management in that we have promising prospects, a good core, solid depth throughout, I'll be happy. Until then I'll continue to question their moves.
Do we not have promising prospects, a god core, and solid depth throughout?

The Flyers have problems...but none of the things you listed can be considered problematic.

Quote:
As far as the comment above about me not liking Giroux, that's crap. I love his offense, drive and creativity. I don't like his defense. He's above average on the pk but terrible 5 on 5. I'd gladly see him sacrifice 15 points a year and see him really focus on defense.
I think this just proves that you will love to hate anything in an orange jersey.


It doesnt have to do with being a "true fan" or drinking the kool-aid. It has to do with not hating the team you claim to be a fan of


Seriously, if you want to cheer for a normal team-- a team who's management will rebuild every 10 years, willing to suck to rebuild the core or dead set on stocking up the prospect pool before worrying about the NHL roster-- then the Flyers are not for you.

Personally, that's what I love about the Flyers. That we're not like any other team. But if you hate it...well, nobody is forcing you to be a fan.

hockeyfreak7 is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 08:23 PM
  #849
dingbathero
No Jam? How about PB
 
dingbathero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. John's, NL
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,417
vCash: 500
To those with pics in your avatars with the Kings with the Cup - WTF are you thinking? Yea they won.. good on them and the ex-flyers... but as a Flyers fan... it's disgraceful.

dingbathero is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 08:25 PM
  #850
flyershockey
Registered User
 
flyershockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 8,111
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Right now, not a lot. I've been a fan since 1974 which pre-dates most of you and I'm pissed right off that management has made one questionable move after another in recent years and have turned the Flyers from must-see to meh. Homer and Snider and their knee-jerk reactions without any thought beyond right now is pissing me off. There is always some contradiction, have good forwards and defence but AHL goaltending. Get younger by trading two 26 year olds abd bringing in 4 or 5 19-25 year olds then sign a 31 year old goalie who can't handle pressure to 9 years and an NTC. Bring in a 39 year old for $3.3 million. Continue to barely squeeze under the cap yet leave Shelley on the team even though he does nothing. Sign Lilja to a 35+ contract for 2 years when one would have been more than enough. Kubina for one of those ueless 2nd rounders for 2 months.

Is that enough?
I agree with most of what you said about management's incompetence. But, your agenda to completely blast anything the team does has become a joke. Your affinity with Mike Richards has turned you into one of the most sour individuals that I've ever seen on a message board. I was pissed when the Flyers traded Brindamour, but I didn't launch a campaign to completely discredit the Flyers after that, and I certainly didn't walk around with a know it all attitude like I knew any more than the guys in charge. I get it, Richie is your favorite player, but you can still be a fan while watching guys on other teams. It's the same attitude I took when I watched Rod lift the cup in Carolina. I was happy for him, but I still realized that I was a fan of the Flyers. If you can't put the trades in the past and move forward, then I suggest you just start donning a Kings jersey.

flyershockey is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:12 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.