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Kings' Success & Holmgren

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Old
05-23-2012, 01:37 PM
  #151
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The Kings were a completely different team once Carter was brought in.

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05-23-2012, 02:11 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
The Kings were a completely different team once Carter was brought in.
but Jeff Carter doesnt deserve a Cup

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05-23-2012, 02:15 PM
  #153
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I always liked Rusty..except with Tampa when he was a thorn in the Flyers side and was very influential in ousting the Flyers. Also I never wanted to lose Williams but he was kind of in Hitchcock's doghouse much too often and they needed D help at the time...still was mad and said they would regret trading him. He's been very injury prone after the cup win with Carolina and even a bit before but still very productive when he's played.
yeah that was rough, I liked him as a player but I cursed his name in that series several times. I think the Williams/Markov trade would have looked better for the Flyers had they kept Markov around. Markov was very good that season and in the playoffs.
I was a big Williams fan too btw.

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05-23-2012, 02:21 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
yeah that was rough, I liked him as a player but I cursed his name in that series several times. I think the Williams/Markov trade would have looked better for the Flyers had they kept Markov around. Markov was very good that season and in the playoffs.
I was a big Williams fan too btw.
Yeah I cursed him pretty bad too....

Markov was awesome when we got him and made an immediate impact. It did stink we let him go.

I liked Williams b/c dude never coasted..he kept his feet moving and I saw great potential. He was perfect for Lavi's high tempo offense when in Carolina...not a Hitch type player though. Heck Hitch even got on Richards and I remember Gagne saying you have to have thick skin when dealing with him but only certain people could overcome his belittling ways to motivate. Modano said the same thing but both Gagne and Modano said Hitch made them the players they later became.

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05-23-2012, 02:25 PM
  #155
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Well based on the returns we obviously didn't trade ****** players. Of course they're good enough to win in the playoffs. I think what most of you are forgetting is that before the trades the Flyers had no promising young prospects and the worst rated AHL affiliate at the time. They were also going into the draft with no picks in the first or second rounds. They were setting themselves up for some serious trouble if they didn't win the cup in a couple years. Not only this but the team was losing size, toughness, and some sort of dynamic that was missing in 2011. They probably threw all their players on the table to gauge interest and not surprisingly Carter and Richards turned up the best value. Like when Boston traded Thorton and Kessel, no **** they were good players but they got better in return.

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05-23-2012, 02:36 PM
  #156
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Trades can benefit both teams. If the Kings win the Cup this year, great. That doesn't mean the Flyers made a mistake in either trade.

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05-23-2012, 04:15 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by zarley zelepukin View Post
His presence alone has had a big effect on the Kings' other lines too. They have balance now that they were severely lacking before he was acquired. And he's now got 9 points in 14 games (7 pts last 8 games)- not fantastic but certainly respectable considering all those other things he does.
The stats wouldn't be great on an offense-first team but the Kings generally don't need more than 3 goals a game. 3 shutouts in the playoffs because of great team defence from the forwards to the goalie and all you need is 1 goal. With everyone contributing to scoring, you don't need 1 guy to carry the bulk of the point production.

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05-23-2012, 04:44 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
The stats wouldn't be great on an offense-first team but the Kings generally don't need more than 3 goals a game. 3 shutouts in the playoffs because of great team defence from the forwards to the goalie and all you need is 1 goal. With everyone contributing to scoring, you don't need 1 guy to carry the bulk of the point production.
Definitely. Detractors will point out that he went awhile without scoring and that he's currently only 7th on the team in points this postseason. But he helps in a lot of ways and he's getting hot now. I think the ankle/foot injury clearly affected him in the first round but he seems to be over that.

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05-23-2012, 06:26 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Trades can benefit both teams. If the Kings win the Cup this year, great. That doesn't mean the Flyers made a mistake in either trade.
It still hurts.......bad.

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05-23-2012, 06:30 PM
  #160
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It still hurts.......bad.
Oh don't get me wrong, it will be painful watching any of the teams remaining lift the Cup this season, I'm just not sold on the "Richards and Carter would have won a Cup this year in Philly because they won one in LA" school of thought.

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05-23-2012, 06:46 PM
  #161
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We weren't winning a cup with Carter and Richards so what does it matter? Richie and Carter sucked for the majority of the season, and then started a momentum shift once they were reunited again on another team. Truth is the main reason the kings are on the brink of winning the cup is because they have one of the best goalies in the game, a solid defensive system, barely any injuries, a team playing well together.

Remember this team just sneaked into the playoffs, we could easily be talking about how both guys did nothing to help the Kings. You need your team playing good at the right time, and you need to be healthy. Kings have that going for them and it is working.

Us on the other hand haven't had anything work for us full circle since the 70's, go figure.

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05-23-2012, 06:56 PM
  #162
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Saying we couldn't have ever won a cup with Richards and Carter is as unfair as saying we would have won it this year with them.

Edit: And you clearly didn't pay much attention to the Kings. Richards was excellent until he got his concussion, and took a long time to get back up to speed. Carter has been a great asset to the Kings, they've been a completely different team since they traded for him; their offense turned it up in a big way after he showed up.

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05-23-2012, 08:29 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Trades can benefit both teams. If the Kings win the Cup this year, great. That doesn't mean the Flyers made a mistake in either trade.
No doubt, but Big Ed's getting a bit uppity, I can promise you that.

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05-23-2012, 09:57 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Oh don't get me wrong, it will be painful watching any of the teams remaining lift the Cup this season, I'm just not sold on the "Richards and Carter would have won a Cup this year in Philly because they won one in LA" school of thought.
Oh I'm on your side. people act like we traded gretzky and messier away. They were here, we didn't win and believe me the kings aren't winning a cup because of those two. carter might have taken pressure off of some guys there just by showing up but don't forget the coaching change helped too. I'm pretty sure though in these playoffs they would be nowhere without doughty, brown, and quick. nowhere.

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05-23-2012, 10:12 PM
  #165
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Oh I'm on your side. people act like we traded gretzky and messier away. They were here, we didn't win and believe me the kings aren't winning a cup because of those two. carter might have taken pressure off of some guys there just by showing up but don't forget the coaching change helped too. I'm pretty sure though in these playoffs they would be nowhere without doughty, brown, and quick. nowhere.
They were pretty close in 2010. If not for AHL goaltending, they stood an even better chance to win. There were others who produced that year, but it would be foolish to discount what they did for this franchise. I still don't like seeing them win, but I still recognize the talent.

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05-24-2012, 02:12 AM
  #166
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Its not flyers vs kings, it's flyers vs blue jackets.

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05-24-2012, 02:35 AM
  #167
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Do you believe Couturier was simply a passenger in the Penguins series, or was he a key contributor on both sides of the puck, but was most valuable in shutting down Malkin?

Be careful how you answer that. Richards and Carter shut down Doan completely in round 3, along with providing key goals at varying times. In rounds 1 and 2, the top opposition players weren't producing by accident. And their line was key offensively in a few games.



Let's wait and see what happens, shall we?

Voracek - not signed as of this moment in time (RFA)
Simmonds - signed through 2012-2013
Schenn - signed through 2013-2014
Couturier - signed through 2013-2014

Right now, we don't know a) if the Flyers will be able to sign them to a reasonable deal, thereby keeping them on the roster and under the salary cap, and b) how they'll play in the next year or two.

Outside of Couturier (who I'm excited as hell to see progress), none of them has shown the ability to be a gamebreaker yet. Perhaps they will. Perhaps they won't.
voracek certainly has. Schenn im a bit concerned with, but ill wait and see until he plays healthy.

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05-25-2012, 08:48 PM
  #168
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Its not flyers vs kings, it's flyers vs blue jackets.
what does this mean?

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05-25-2012, 09:15 PM
  #169
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voracek certainly has.
What? Not really. He's a 50-point player. Not even 20 goals. He could be, but if the Flyers traded him this summer, his production would be easily replaceable.

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05-25-2012, 09:46 PM
  #170
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What? Not really. He's a 50-point player. Not even 20 goals. He could be, but if the Flyers traded him this summer, his production would be easily replaceable.
WHAT.

Next you'll tell them Simmonds isn't an elite power forward.

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05-25-2012, 10:09 PM
  #171
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voracek certainly has. Schenn im a bit concerned with, but ill wait and see until he plays healthy.
The bar is set really low, isn't it?

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05-25-2012, 11:13 PM
  #172
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wohoo NJ vs Kings final..

so glad NY got sent home with nothing to show..

this final should be fun to watch

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05-25-2012, 11:56 PM
  #173
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What? Not really. He's a 50-point player. Not even 20 goals. He could be, but if the Flyers traded him this summer, his production would be easily replaceable.
yup, we could trade him and bring back Zherdev. that worked out the last time.


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05-26-2012, 02:06 AM
  #174
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Regardless of the Carter/Richards trades, I'd like to see the Kings win for the simple fact Simon Gagne would get a ring. He will always go down in my books as one of my favorite Flyers and if he wasn't plagued by injuries he'd go down as one of the better players in the last decade. He's practicing full contact again, I doubt he'll be back in the finals but regardless, as Flyers fan that's a hard guy to cheer against.

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05-26-2012, 06:23 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
What? Not really. He's a 50-point player. Not even 20 goals. He could be, but if the Flyers traded him this summer, his production would be easily replaceable.
He's shown the ability to be more than that though IMO. Plus the point totals don't tell the whole story of his game.

There are things he's not that great at, but the things he is good at, he is really good at. Guys who do everything well but nothing great are a lot easier to stop than the guys who are amazing at 3 or 4 things. He's one of only two or three guys on the team I would trust to try to carry the puck through a trap. Not that this makes him a "game breaker" (the original point) but there's not many guys with his combo of size and skill around the corners and half boards, we only really have Jagr who can keep up with him there (maybe Giroux if the person checking him isn't too big). Hartnell applies himself there, but clearly is behind those two in talent.



How many of Voracek's points were power play points? I would look myself but I'm not even sure where to get that info.

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