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Old
06-10-2012, 10:53 AM
  #276
CalBuckeyeRob
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Originally Posted by lawrence View Post
Will like to hear from Blue Jackets fans. A guy by the name of samjam99, who in October tweeted the a trade 7 hours before it was officially announced by MIke Gillis. He said, Samuelson and Sturm for Booth and Reinprecht. Time stamp shows that he tweeted this at 3:20PM on October 22nd. After the Canucks defeated Minnesota that night, Mike gillis announced this trade.

However, leading up to the trade deadline, he also tweeted that Vancouver was in the Nash sweepstakes. He said Hodgson Schneider and other players were being offered for Rick Nash. This is no joke. His name is samjam99.

This guy who tweeted a trade before it was officially announced is the same guy who tweeted that Vancouver is interested in Nash.

My question to you is.

As Jackets fans, will you guys be ok with this trade?

To Columbus : Roberto Luongo
To Vancouver : Rick Nash

Forget all the B.S you heard about Luongo submitting a list of teams, forget all the b.s you heard about the teams he is interested in. Because all these rumors are NOT confirmed by anyone. It's just a bunch guys trying to draw followers after samjam99 announced Luongo to Toronto is all but done.

One thing Luongo did say, and he said it, that "I will waive my no trade clause if i'm asked too."

Luongo just wants to be a starter. He never mentioned were he wants to start. He just said he wants to be the go to guy. (BTW Florida is a no brianer because his wife is there)

But what you guys think? Would you guys settle for a one for one swap?

Thanks.



No way. Luongo is 5 years older and would be going to a team that will need 2-3 years at a minimum to rebuild any sort of offense. If you get a goalie in the deal he needs to be much closer to age 25. My preference would be to get 2-3 pieces in return since no one will trade you a 22 year old version of Nash straight up for him.

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06-10-2012, 11:20 AM
  #277
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Would have to be a signed Staal.

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06-10-2012, 11:53 AM
  #278
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Originally Posted by lawrence View Post
[FONT="Tahoma"] My question to you is.

As Jackets fans, will you guys be ok with this trade?

To Columbus : Roberto Luongo
To Vancouver : Rick Nash

Forget all the B.S you heard about Luongo submitting a list of teams, forget all the b.s you heard about the teams he is interested in. Because all these rumors are NOT confirmed by anyone. It's just a bunch guys trying to draw followers after samjam99 announced Luongo to Toronto is all but done.

One thing Luongo did say, and he said it, that "I will waive my no trade clause if i'm asked too."

Luongo just wants to be a starter. He never mentioned were he wants to start. He just said he wants to be the go to guy. (BTW Florida is a no brianer because his wife is there)

But what you guys think? Would you guys settle for a one for one swap?

Thanks.
A one for one trade?! Of these two?! My head would explode and my body would be lighting the torch and grabbing the pitchfork to descend on Nationwide Arena.

Personally, I'd hope the CBJ steer clear of Lou period. He is a fine goaltender and by most accounts, person, but his contract is just too long, regardless of the way its finances are structured.

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06-10-2012, 03:04 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
I agree, I wouldn't mind getting Luongo, but not in a one-for-one with Nash. We will have much better offers for Nash and there's no reason to think that Vancouver will receive anything like that offer for Lou.
Howdy folks, yet another Canuck fan here. I also have been thinking along the lines of a Lou-for-Nash deal. I'm thinking both teams apparently hafta trade these 2 and that these 2 fill the biggest need for the other team. Columbus has Lou's all-time favorite goalie coach in Ian Clark (Got Canucks to hire him 6 years ago, still trains with him every summer), and would be closer to Lou's home in Florida (which is what rumours say Lou wants).

What if Canucks were to sweeten the offer:

Luongo + Booth + Malhotra ...for... Nash + Mason.

Booth is a solid physical scoring winger on a good contract. Manny struggled mightily last season OFFENSIVELY coming back from his eye surgery, but was still his usual awesome self in the playoff circle (he was a top defensive-zone-starter - only 13% of his starts were in the offensive zone). He was our #1 penalty killer.

Canucks would be taking a bad contract back in Mason and would send him to the Wolves to get his contract off the books (Canucks have made this move a few times). Also, Mason would be there to call up in the event of an injury to Schneider (rookie Lack would be our backup).

I have this hunch that one of the Canuck goalies will end up in Columbus. It just seems such a natural fit: Columbus is the most desperate team in the league for a solid #1 and Canucks have two of em. Canucks have to trade a goalie and Columbus has to trade for one. Columbus has to trade Nash and Canucks need an elite forward. I have other ideas involving Schneider instead of Luongo, but they would have to involve a younger player (Johansen?) or the second overall (Canucks would have to add)... so let's not go there right now.

I've tried to sweeten this deal as much as I figure Canucks could.

What say you Columbus fans?


Last edited by Strangelove: 06-10-2012 at 03:17 PM.
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06-10-2012, 03:17 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Strangelove View Post
Howdy folks, yet another Canuck fan here. I also have been thinking along the lines of a Lou-for-Nash deal. I'm thinking both teams apparently hafta trade these 2 and that these 2 fill the biggest need for the other team. Columbus has Lou's all-time favorite goalie coach in Ian Clark (Got Canucks to hire him 6 years ago, still trains with him every summer), and would be closer to Lou's home in Florida (which is what rumours say Lou wants).

What if Canucks were to sweeten the offer:

Luongo + Booth + Malhotra ...for... Nash + Mason.

Booth is a solid physical scoring winger on a good contract. Manny struggled mightily last season OFFENSIVELY coming back from his eye surgery, but was still his usual awesome self in the playoff circle (he was a top defensive-zone-starter - only 13% of his starts were in the offensive zone). He was our #1 penalty killer.

Canucks would be taking a bad contract back in Mason and would send him to the Wolves to get his contract off the books (Canucks have made this move a few times). Also, Mason would be there to call up in the event of an injury to Schneider (rookie Lack would be our backup).

I have this hunch that one of the Canuck goalies will end up in Columbus. It just seems such a natural fit: Columbus is the most desperate team in the league for a solid #1 and Canucks have two of em. Canucks have to trade a goalie and Columbus has to trade for one. Columbus has to trade Nash and Canucks need an elite forward. I have other ideas involving Schneider instead of Luongo, but they would have to involve a younger player (Johanson?) or the second overall (Canucks would have to add)... so let's not go there right now.

I've tried to sweeten this deal as much as I figure Canucks could.

What say you Columbus fans?
No thanks.

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Old
06-10-2012, 03:18 PM
  #281
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No thanks.
Reasons??

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06-10-2012, 03:27 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Strangelove View Post
Reasons??
Nash would fetch a lot more than that.

Mason can be bought out at 1/3 of his contract, not 2/3, and he only has one year left on his deal. It's not exactly crippling, and certainly not bad enough to warrant him being regarded as "salary dump".

We all saw Malhotra's best years. Malhotra with no offensive ability is, at best, what Sammy Pahlsson was here the last three years. In addition, the gap in skill between the best and the worst faceoff men in the league is mostly insignificant, and the value of a faceoff as it correlates to actually winning games is not strong.

Luongo isn't worth that much. A combination of contract, age, and the likelihood of him declining in the near future means that there simply won't be a return in trade of anywhere close to his actual value.

Booth isn't worth it. He's had a couple of decent seasons, but that's about it. He's around the same level as Umberger, who certainly would not be a major piece of a deal for someone like Nash.

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06-10-2012, 03:32 PM
  #283
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what Mayor said

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Old
06-10-2012, 03:39 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Nash would fetch a lot more than that.

Mason can be bought out at 1/3 of his contract, not 2/3, and he only has one year left on his deal. It's not exactly crippling, and certainly not bad enough to warrant him being regarded as "salary dump".

We all saw Malhotra's best years. Malhotra with no offensive ability is, at best, what Sammy Pahlsson was here the last three years. In addition, the gap in skill between the best and the worst faceoff men in the league is mostly insignificant, and the value of a faceoff as it correlates to actually winning games is not strong.
Luongo isn't worth that much. A combination of contract, age, and the likelihood of him declining in the near future means that there simply won't be a return in trade of anywhere close to his actual value.

Booth isn't worth it. He's had a couple of decent seasons, but that's about it. He's around the same level as Umberger, who certainly would not be a major piece of a deal for someone like Nash.
On top of that, we have Letestu and Mackenzie for our number 3 and 4 centers.

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06-10-2012, 03:50 PM
  #285
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To expound further on Vancouver and Columbus, this question must be answered first.

What is stronger: the need for Columbus to acquire a goalie, or the need for Vancouver to trade a goalie?

As of right now, June 10 at 4:40 PM, Vancouver has three possibilities:
1) Trade Schneider for a lot. This means going with Luongo, who isn't exactly the most popular goalie right now. It means sticking with a 33-year-old goalie signed until four years past Armageddon. Although it means that Schneider could return all the pieces that the Canucks need to patch, it also means that Gillis will be run out of town in 12 months if the team falls short.
2) Keep Schneider and Luongo. This means the possibility of an ongoing goalie controversy. It means that the only way to patch holes is in free agency, and it also burns one of Schneider's prime years. If Schneider takes over as starter, then Luongo's trade value plummets to absolutely nothing, which will also trigger unrest in Vancouver.
3) Trade Luongo and keep Schneider. This means getting less than actual value for Luongo, and also that those holes most likely won't be patched in trade. However, it clears a decent amount of cap space, allowing for more wiggle room in free agency. It alleviates the goaltending controversy, and it also provides a backup excuse. If Luongo is traded and the Canucks fall short, the outrage may be diminished simply because Schneider would be a first-year starter and thus cannot reasonably be expected to carry a team at that point.

Now, for Columbus:
1) Trade for a goalie. There are some options out there; the most value is going to come from someone who's past his prime (like Luongo) but still has productive years left.
2) Sign a goalie as a UFA. This is a fairly weak year for free agency, and it may mean bidding against five or six other teams for the same guys. It also assumes that some of these players (Josh Harding) even hit free agency at all; if one of them signs, the trade value for a team looking to move a goalie shifts dramatically.
3) Draft a goalie. No goalie in this year's class is NHL-ready.

However, the situations and therefore the leverage are fairly liquid. It only takes one re-signing, one trade of rights, or one declining of a qualifying offer to dramatically shift the situation very quickly.

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what Mayor said
Words to live by.

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06-10-2012, 04:02 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Strangelove View Post
Howdy folks, yet another Canuck fan here. I also have been thinking along the lines of a Lou-for-Nash deal. I'm thinking both teams apparently hafta trade these 2 and that these 2 fill the biggest need for the other team. Columbus has Lou's all-time favorite goalie coach in Ian Clark (Got Canucks to hire him 6 years ago, still trains with him every summer), and would be closer to Lou's home in Florida (which is what rumours say Lou wants).

What if Canucks were to sweeten the offer:

Luongo + Booth + Malhotra ...for... Nash + Mason.

Booth is a solid physical scoring winger on a good contract. Manny struggled mightily last season OFFENSIVELY coming back from his eye surgery, but was still his usual awesome self in the playoff circle (he was a top defensive-zone-starter - only 13% of his starts were in the offensive zone). He was our #1 penalty killer.

Canucks would be taking a bad contract back in Mason and would send him to the Wolves to get his contract off the books (Canucks have made this move a few times). Also, Mason would be there to call up in the event of an injury to Schneider (rookie Lack would be our backup).

I have this hunch that one of the Canuck goalies will end up in Columbus. It just seems such a natural fit: Columbus is the most desperate team in the league for a solid #1 and Canucks have two of em. Canucks have to trade a goalie and Columbus has to trade for one. Columbus has to trade Nash and Canucks need an elite forward. I have other ideas involving Schneider instead of Luongo, but they would have to involve a younger player (Johansen?) or the second overall (Canucks would have to add)... so let's not go there right now.

I've tried to sweeten this deal as much as I figure Canucks could.

What say you Columbus fans?
While I understand your desire to deal Luongo's huge contract and get a much younger Nash, I am at a loss how getting a 33 year old goalie will serve the best interest of the worst team in the NHL? Throw in the additional issue that the idea of playing for a bad team at this point will hardly be expected to excite Luongo to play his best even if he could be persuaded to waive his no-trade clause to come to Columbus. Any trade that Canucks' fans want to make is clearly not giving up enough.

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Old
06-10-2012, 04:06 PM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post

What is stronger: the need for Columbus to acquire a goalie, or the need for Vancouver to trade a goalie?

.
Obviously the Blue Jackets, having 2 good goalies is better than having 0.

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06-10-2012, 04:12 PM
  #288
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Obviously the Blue Jackets, having 2 good goalies is better than having 0.
i guess the answer for me depends on what amount Schneider wants on this deal...if he's looking for $4m+ then Vancouver will HAVE to move one of them...we have a few options in FA, which may, or may not be just as good an option than trading assets for one of the two Vancouver goalies...

If Schneider signs for $2.5ish, then I don't think they HAVE to move either as much which means the greater need for us to trade for one

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06-10-2012, 04:20 PM
  #289
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While Columbus needs to get a long term answer at goalie, they don't need to get that guy this off-season if the options are not there. If it takes 2-3 years to find the goalie that is not going to derail the rebuild.

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06-10-2012, 04:26 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by CalBuckeyeRob View Post
While Columbus needs to get a long term answer at goalie, they don't need to get that guy this off-season if the options are not there. If it takes 2-3 years to find the goalie that is not going to derail the rebuild.
correct...we can find a stop gap and if Dansk/Subban/etc is that guy than we can wait as long as we use 30/31 for that reason

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06-10-2012, 05:07 PM
  #291
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Guys, I must say I'm perplexed. I seriously thought you guys would be all over that deal. BTW Mckenzie suggests that when Luongo signed that deal, he told them he would retire ~2016. Regardless, it is a cap-circumvention contract meaning GOOD contract.

Also, I talk all the time to long-time hard-core Canuck fans (Canuckscorner). Most of them want nothing to do with Nash's contract. A few of them are interested... and the rumour is that Gillis is very interested in Nash.

Gillis has been saying that Roberto has absolutely NOT asked for a trade and there is no reason to believe he has. Most Canuck fans would be fine if we kept Luongo to mentor young Lack (the way he did with Schneider). Personally I love Lou and would like to keep him, mostly because I know he feels there is unfinished business here and would love to take another few shots at winning a Cup with Vancouver.

It seems like most of you prefer a younger goalie as part of a "rebuild". Okay, what about Schneids then. Most Canuck fans insist we'd need Johansen or the #2 overall coming back. I think it could be Nash, but we'd have to include a significant contract going back (someone like Ballard) to make enough cap-room.

Hope you guys are being as reasonable as possible and not in 'tough negotiator mode'. Maybe y'all have already discussed what a fair deal for Schneider would be now that I think about it, should've prolly scanned this thread but I have some time restraints, so a summary would be appreciated. As a matter of fact I've gotta log off right now, but I'll check back tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks for the feedback!

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06-10-2012, 05:42 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Strangelove View Post
Guys, I must say I'm perplexed. I seriously thought you guys would be all over that deal. BTW Mckenzie suggests that when Luongo signed that deal, he told them he would retire ~2016. Regardless, it is a cap-circumvention contract meaning GOOD contract.

Also, I talk all the time to long-time hard-core Canuck fans (Canuckscorner). Most of them want nothing to do with Nash's contract. A few of them are interested... and the rumour is that Gillis is very interested in Nash.

Gillis has been saying that Roberto has absolutely NOT asked for a trade and there is no reason to believe he has. Most Canuck fans would be fine if we kept Luongo to mentor young Lack (the way he did with Schneider). Personally I love Lou and would like to keep him, mostly because I know he feels there is unfinished business here and would love to take another few shots at winning a Cup with Vancouver.

It seems like most of you prefer a younger goalie as part of a "rebuild". Okay, what about Schneids then. Most Canuck fans insist we'd need Johansen or the #2 overall coming back. I think it could be Nash, but we'd have to include a significant contract going back (someone like Ballard) to make enough cap-room.

Hope you guys are being as reasonable as possible and not in 'tough negotiator mode'. Maybe y'all have already discussed what a fair deal for Schneider would be now that I think about it, should've prolly scanned this thread but I have some time restraints, so a summary would be appreciated. As a matter of fact I've gotta log off right now, but I'll check back tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks for the feedback!
Good grief! The #2 for Schneider. Let the guys and gals here tell you why that is a bad idea. Check out the http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...831&highlight= for a complete thrashing of that idea. Start around post #49.

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06-10-2012, 05:55 PM
  #293
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Reasons??
Others have already posted this, but we can get more back in a trade for Nash.

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06-10-2012, 06:40 PM
  #294
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Give Rick Nash to SJ for their garbage. Now!

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06-10-2012, 06:40 PM
  #295
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Okay, what about Schneids then. Most Canuck fans insist we'd need Johansen or the #2 overall coming back.
For that price, keep him. He's not even under contract (aka, trading for rights). Even if he was for the next 5 years, I still wouldn't do it.

With all due respect to your trade offer of Luo, Booth, and Manny - it kind of blows. I don't think either team would do it.

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06-10-2012, 07:31 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
Obviously the Blue Jackets, having 2 good goalies is better than having 0.
I would argue that Columbus has more options than Vancouver does. With that in mind, Gillis runs the risk of playing himself right out of leverage on Luongo. Columbus doesn't need a top-level goalie, just a competent one. There's a very small number of teams that have a legitimate need for Luongo (like Chicago), but the question of whether they can withstand the contract or put a package together to get him is another issue entirely.

Frankly, if I were Gillis, I'd be figuring out what the minimum return I'd take for Luongo would be. Before the end of the first round of the draft, get offers, and make a move on the best deal that exceeds that minimum.

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06-10-2012, 07:32 PM
  #297
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Give Rick Nash to SJ for their garbage. Now!
That right has long been reserved for Toronto.

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06-10-2012, 07:36 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by Strangelove View Post
Guys, I must say I'm perplexed. I seriously thought you guys would be all over that deal. BTW Mckenzie suggests that when Luongo signed that deal, he told them he would retire ~2016. Regardless, it is a cap-circumvention contract meaning GOOD contract.

Also, I talk all the time to long-time hard-core Canuck fans (Canuckscorner). Most of them want nothing to do with Nash's contract. A few of them are interested... and the rumour is that Gillis is very interested in Nash.

Gillis has been saying that Roberto has absolutely NOT asked for a trade and there is no reason to believe he has. Most Canuck fans would be fine if we kept Luongo to mentor young Lack (the way he did with Schneider). Personally I love Lou and would like to keep him, mostly because I know he feels there is unfinished business here and would love to take another few shots at winning a Cup with Vancouver.

It seems like most of you prefer a younger goalie as part of a "rebuild". Okay, what about Schneids then. Most Canuck fans insist we'd need Johansen or the #2 overall coming back. I think it could be Nash, but we'd have to include a significant contract going back (someone like Ballard) to make enough cap-room.

Hope you guys are being as reasonable as possible and not in 'tough negotiator mode'. Maybe y'all have already discussed what a fair deal for Schneider would be now that I think about it, should've prolly scanned this thread but I have some time restraints, so a summary would be appreciated. As a matter of fact I've gotta log off right now, but I'll check back tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks for the feedback!
Goalies of the highest caliber in the NHL have come from everywhere in the draft. I don't see it as being worthwhile to deal for a "young" goalie and call it a rebuild...given the choice, I'd rather draft a goalie a year, hope for a home run, and plug the gap in the NHL on a short-term basis.

I don't know what everyone else's mentality is here, but I'm definitely in "tough negotiator" mode. Ottawa's 2nd-rounder (#45 overall) for Luongo. If Gillis doesn't like it, then trade for Harding's UFA rights, add Cedrick Desjardins on July 1, and enjoy having a good prospect in the system picked at #45. Gillis knows that if he keeps Luongo and something goes wrong (either Vancouver falls short or Schneider takes over as the starter), that it's his neck on the block.

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06-10-2012, 10:57 PM
  #299
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That right has long been reserved for Toronto.
It was worth a shot

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06-10-2012, 11:12 PM
  #300
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For whats it worth, Howard Eskin (he is pretty much an ass but has a good amount of sources within the Flyers) said that JVR is delaying surgery on an injury because he is being shopped and the one team talking is Columbus around Rick Nash.

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