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2012 Offseason Thread II: The Offseasoning

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Old
06-04-2012, 12:30 PM
  #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasStarsfan06 View Post
Say if we gave up someone else for Kari, Do you think Vishnevskiy could have helped the team and helped on the PP?
Vishnevsky was never going to be an NHL D-man, or at most a MAB-#7 clone. The organization realized this and traded him.

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06-04-2012, 01:14 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by DallasStarsfan06 View Post
1. Why did the Stars give up on Ivan Vishnevskiy so fast? Was he ever going to be anything more than PPQB?

2. Would Fabian Brunnstrom have been a better top six option than Steve Ott this year?

Thanks.
1. Vishnevskiy can be a fun player to watch. His point shot is special. Sadly, that's about all he has. Until he develops something else to his game, he remains little more than a Russian Happy Gilmore.

2. Brunnstrom was a nice story of a late bloomer who sadly did not bloom into an NHL player.

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06-04-2012, 02:49 PM
  #253
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I still wonder what would have happened if Brunnstrom had just spent a half year to a year in the AHL. I know we only got him because we promised him playing time, but it was a stupid decision. He had a couple of good flashes that made us all hopeful he'd turn into something more, but he just seemed to regress the longer he was here.

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06-04-2012, 04:20 PM
  #254
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Quote:
Roger Millions ‏@RogMillions

Told #Flames will not be cap team anymore. In fact, expect them to be around 55 Million when hockey is played again. #whocomeswhogoes??
The Flames are just over $50 million with 16 players signed.

I know it wasn't exactly popular when we first talked about it, but the idea of possibly adding Jay Bouwmeester has grown for me to the point I feel it could be an excellent addition to Dallas for the next 2 years and possibly more. He represents a slightly overpaid, mobile shutdown D, and Dallas just doesn't have that. Plus he does contribute some offense.

I think he and Larsen could be a strong pair.

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06-04-2012, 04:29 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
The Flames are just over $50 million with 16 players signed.

I know it wasn't exactly popular when we first talked about it, but the idea of possibly adding Jay Bouwmeester has grown for me to the point I feel it could be an excellent addition to Dallas for the next 2 years and possibly more. He represents a slightly overpaid, mobile shutdown D, and Dallas just doesn't have that. Plus he does contribute some offense.

I think he and Larsen could be a strong pair.
Either we acquire Bouwmeester for Ribeiro or we just sign Jokinen at a minimum and then move Ribeiro for other parts.

Ribeiro and Robidas for Bouwmeester and Jokinen's UFA rights?

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Old
06-04-2012, 04:47 PM
  #256
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I can't see Calgary moving J-Bo. He is overpaid, but they can afford to pay his salary. In addition, he is the guy that stablizes their blueline. He eats huge minutes, very mobile and is almost never injured (probably because of his lack of physicality). People can say what they want about J-Bo, but him and Giordano are Calgary's 1st pairing tandem. The only way I see him being shipped out of Calgary is if he doesn't respond well to Bob Hartley's playing style. The Flames are going to have a new coaching staff, and it'll be interesting to see if J-Bo can resurrect his offence.

Also, I believe it was Bouwmeester that made Dion Phaneuf expendable in terms of logging in big minutes. If Calgary wanted to dump a big contract, I'd say Stajan is on his way out.

There was a thread a couple months back asking what it would take to get J-Bo to Dallas, and a majority of Flames wanted Larsen+13th overall as a starter.


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06-04-2012, 05:23 PM
  #257
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I started that thread, and it did not go well. He's got plenty of connection with GMJN, and I think he could do a job for the Stars.

This might be horrifically unpopular, but if they are "no longer going to be a cap team" would Stars fans be okay with Oleksiak as the centerpiece of a deal?

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06-04-2012, 05:32 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
I still wonder what would have happened if Brunnstrom had just spent a half year to a year in the AHL. I know we only got him because we promised him playing time, but it was a stupid decision. He had a couple of good flashes that made us all hopeful he'd turn into something more, but he just seemed to regress the longer he was here.
I used to pin Brunnstrom's woes squarely on Dave Tippett....I remember Tippett basically gluing Brunnstrom to the bench while giving Mark Parrish all the PP minutes. Just keeping Fabian to 10 or 11 minutes per night, at best, even when he was showing flashes of brilliance offensively. So frustrating. Here was this highly sought after free agent that IMO was being grossly misused, while our team cartwheeled out of playoff contention.

Two teams later, I've accepted the fact that it may not have been Tippett's fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
I started that thread, and it did not go well. He's got plenty of connection with GMJN, and I think he could do a job for the Stars.

This might be horrifically unpopular, but if they are "no longer going to be a cap team" would Stars fans be okay with Oleksiak as the centerpiece of a deal?
I highly doubt GMJN gives up on Oleksiak that quickly. Especially not for the likes of J-Bo. I'm sure there's probably some interest there, but if Campbell or Oleksiak come into discussion, I'd expect/hope the line is drawn there.

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06-04-2012, 06:50 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Ogi1Kenobi View Post
Also, I believe it was Bouwmeester that made Dion Phaneuf expendable in terms of logging in big minutes. If Calgary wanted to dump a big contract, I'd say Stajan is on his way out.

There was a thread a couple months back asking what it would take to get J-Bo to Dallas, and a majority of Flames wanted Larsen+13th overall as a starter.
You may be right that Bouwmeester doesn't get traded but I don't really take much of what any fanbase says about the "value" of their player too seriously. We all think we know but ultimately most of us say what we hope the team would accept rather than what we think, if push comes to shove, they may in fact accept. If the point of trading Bouwmeester is to spread his money around on a couple of players (which could be smart) I don't think he will command a king's ransom.

Larsen + 13th overall is just silly talk.


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Two teams later, I've accepted the fact that it may not have been Tippett's fault.
I agree with you to an extent but it's not that simple. "Here" happened before "there" and "there". Who knows what may have happend if Brunnstrom signed with Detroit. The things that happened in his development here, both positive and negative, effected the player he was from there on out.

I think he always would have been some form of defensive liability but it's not like he didn't produce - not just anyone can score 17 goals in 55 games with limited ice time and linemates of questionable talent levels. The guy had (has?) something and it's possible that if Tip had shown the faith in him that some of us thought he had earned with his scoring that the story of Fabian Brunnstrom would be quite different.



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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
I highly doubt GMJN gives up on Oleksiak that quickly. Especially not for the likes of J-Bo. I'm sure there's probably some interest there, but if Campbell or Oleksiak come into discussion, I'd expect/hope the line is drawn there.
The chances of Oleksiak starting the season in Dallas is a thousand times higher than him being traded for Bouwmeester. Same goes for Campbell; those two are draft picks I'd have to assume Nieuwendyk feels he can leave as his legacy on down the line. I'll give him a mulligan on Glennie just for ***** and giggles.

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Old
06-04-2012, 07:00 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
The chances of Oleksiak starting the season in Dallas is a thousand times higher than him being traded for Bouwmeester. Same goes for Campbell; those two are draft picks I'd have to assume Nieuwendyk feels he can leave as his legacy on down the line. I'll give him a mulligan on Glennie just for ***** and giggles.
I was thinking about Calgary's needs if they rebuild, and I think Oleksiak is projected to be a similar player. I don't really think much else from Dallas fits whatever the Flames are looking for.

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06-04-2012, 07:11 PM
  #261
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We traded Vish because we knew he'd bolt to the KHL.

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06-04-2012, 07:22 PM
  #262
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We traded Vish because we knew he'd bolt to the KHL.
Bingo.

Wasn't there a rumor going around that he was already threatening that?

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06-04-2012, 08:57 PM
  #263
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Kind of goes to show how bad Atlanta's GM really was (can't remember his name).

The Kovy trade, the Lehtonen trade... Just soooo bad.

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06-04-2012, 09:04 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I'll give him a mulligan on Glennie just for ***** and giggles.


Had he been on the jump a month or two yet when that pick was made?

I think that was said tongue in cheek, right?

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06-04-2012, 09:15 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Kind of goes to show how bad Atlanta's GM really was (can't remember his name).

The Kovy trade, the Lehtonen trade... Just soooo bad.
Waddell. And at least he got a pretty sizable return for Kovalchuk, it just so happens that none of the pieces NJ gave up turned into anything, although the 1st they got was part of a package that got them Byfuglien.

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06-04-2012, 09:20 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post


Had he been on the jump a month or two yet when that pick was made?

I think that was said tongue in cheek, right?
I'm just in a generous mood today.

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06-04-2012, 09:41 PM
  #267
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I'm just in a generous mood today.
I think you characterized GMJN's view of Campbell and Oleksiak perfectly btw. I think he feels they have the potential to be home run picks, especially Campbell.

Most of the success and failure still IMO rides all on your scouts, but GMJN ultimately has to make the call based on the info they give him.

I don't think it was hyperbole when he characterized Campbell as a potential world class, franchise cornerstone goalie. I think he believed that even if it is a risky opinion.

Regardless of all that ... legacy was an excellent word to use.... more so with Campbell again. It was a ballsy move from fan perception to walk away from Fowler, Gromley, or Forbort for Campbell. We're several years from knowing the result of that draft, but it will have a huge impact on his legacy.

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06-04-2012, 10:02 PM
  #268
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I think you characterized GMJN's view of Campbell and Oleksiak perfectly btw. I think he feels they have the potential to be home run picks, especially Campbell.

Most of the success and failure still IMO rides all on your scouts, but GMJN ultimately has to make the call based on the info they give him.

I don't think it was hyperbole when he characterized Campbell as a potential world class, franchise cornerstone goalie. I think he believed that even if it is a risky opinion.

Regardless of all that ... legacy was an excellent word to use.... more so with Campbell again. It was a ballsy move from fan perception to walk away from Fowler, Gromley, or Forbort for Campbell. We're several years from knowing the result of that draft, but it will have a huge impact on his legacy.
I would agree with GMJN in that, if everyone reaches their potential, Campbell will be the 3rd best player from that draft (behind Hall and Seguin obviously).

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06-10-2012, 12:35 AM
  #269
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Would a Rene Bourque for Robidas deal make sense?

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06-10-2012, 01:49 AM
  #270
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Would a Rene Bourque for Robidas deal make sense?
Robidas is older, but his contract is shorter and he gives 100% every night, while Borque has a reputation of being lazy and unengaged. It pains me to hate on a Badger, but he has no value to the Stars.

The team can trade for better than Borque, and can also just roll with Robidas.

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06-10-2012, 02:13 AM
  #271
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I'd be okay with it, but I doubt GMJN would bite.

Bourque's reputation is something most teams are probably trying to stay away from.

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06-10-2012, 02:50 AM
  #272
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Would a Rene Bourque for Robidas deal make sense?
Sure.

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06-10-2012, 02:10 PM
  #273
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Robidas is older, but his contract is shorter and he gives 100% every night, while Borque has a reputation of being lazy and unengaged. It pains me to hate on a Badger, but he has no value to the Stars.

The team can trade for better than Bourque, and can also just roll with Robidas.
I've officially seen it all.

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Old
06-10-2012, 02:20 PM
  #274
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3.333 Million until 2016 for 24 points. All signs out of Montreal that he was unengaged (8 points in 38 games), and a reputation as a guy who has never worked hard enough to get the most out of his game. The Stars can find better cap dumps than Borque, and if they want to throw Ryder money at a 3rd liner, at least there are guys out there who work hard.

Robidas is a 2nd pairing defenseman, and the team can get a better 3rd liner for him if that is the way they want to go.

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06-10-2012, 06:41 PM
  #275
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Not too many 3rd liners score 27 goals in back to back seasons. I'm less interested in his short tenure on a bad Montreal team than I am in his goal scoring the three seasons prior. The contract is a tad long though so there's that.

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