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2012 Offseason Thread II: The Offseasoning

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06-25-2012, 02:57 PM
  #701
Mr Misty
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
So with Wandell QO, is Dallas set at center going into season?

Benn, Eakin, Wandell, and Fiddler?

Eriksson-Benn-Ryder
?-Eakin-?
Ott-Wandell-Vincour
Morrow-Fiddler-Nystrom
Garbutt
If set means there are potentially 4 centers on the roster, then yes? I think the team needs 1 more C at least for injury insurance/winning hockey games.

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06-25-2012, 02:59 PM
  #702
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I think Wandell's future might be at wing. I could see Sceviour taking 4th line draws if he's better.

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06-25-2012, 02:59 PM
  #703
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On a good team Wandell is a 13th forward.

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06-25-2012, 03:01 PM
  #704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starsdude View Post
On a good team Wandell is a 13th forward.
On a good team, Wandell is centering the first line in the AHL or lower depending on your prospect pool.

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06-25-2012, 03:05 PM
  #705
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On a good team, Wandell is centering the first line in the AHL or lower depending on your prospect pool.
This.

I hope he isn't brought back for more than a year. He's had a very "meh" run with the Stars.

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06-25-2012, 06:19 PM
  #706
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Or more likely ... it's ridiculous as causal fans to make statements like that.
More likely you've been reading too much into what management is saying.

Earlier in the offseason they said they needed a top 6 center. You and others said, whelp looks like Benner's back on wing. Then they trade Ribeiro. Whelp, either you misunderstood what they were saying or they now need TWO top six centers. Which of those do you think is more likely?

Edit: Also, I was opining on what they should do not saying what I thought the team would do. Joe hasn't exactly built up a caché of confidence and belief from his moves thus far. It's entirely possible the team/organization is being ridiculous.


Last edited by glovesave_35: 06-25-2012 at 06:32 PM.
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06-25-2012, 06:31 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Famous Flames View Post
Also, if the team is going to rebuild, they need to trade everyone. With a total rebuild, even a guy like Eriksson would be too old once the team's window opens in 6 or more years. Benn you could keep, but I wouldn't expect to keep him when he's a UFA.
Disagree on Eriksson. If he were two years older maybe. But even in a "full rebuild" you can't get rid of absolutely every veteran and if you're going to keep one guy who wouldn't be around when the thing got back to respectability Eriksson would be the perfect type. A model of professionalism in every respect. The reason some rebuilds take for ****ing ever is because teams do trade every shred of NHL respectability from their roster.

Also, I don't really feel that it's fair to say we'd be going "full rebuild" even if we decided to trade those three remaining veterans mentioned all the time. I know fans of most teams feel good about their prospects but I really feel like the organization turned a corner in the last few years and is producing NHL quality players from the draft/undrafted FA's. It's possible that these prospects we currently have are good enough to be the foundation of a good hockey club and anything we added to that in terms of trade return for veterans would be what pushes us over the top.

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06-25-2012, 06:43 PM
  #708
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The Avs have no qualified Peter Mueller, making him a UFA. While the Avs will likely try to get him to re-sign for under the 2.5 mil required by his QO, I imagine he'll take offers from all clubs now. I'd be more than willing to overpay and offer him $3-4 million for 2 years. High risk high reward.

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06-25-2012, 07:13 PM
  #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnholyPrince View Post
The Avs have no qualified Peter Mueller, making him a UFA. While the Avs will likely try to get him to re-sign for under the 2.5 mil required by his QO, I imagine he'll take offers from all clubs now. I'd be more than willing to overpay and offer him $3-4 million for 2 years. High risk high reward.
I'm in. I am also not sure who Toronto qualified, but Korbinian Holzer hasn't been confirmed yet. I also believe that Gui Latendresse was not qualified. If that is the case...

Vincour-Benn-Ryder
Eriksson-Eakin-Mueller
Ott-Glennie-Latendresse
Morrow-Fiddler-Nystrom

Dillon-Larsen
Goligoski-Holzer
Daley-Robidas
Pardy

Sign all the nontendered FAs.

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06-25-2012, 07:23 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
I'm in. I am also not sure who Toronto qualified, but Korbinian Holzer hasn't been confirmed yet. I also believe that Gui Latendresse was not qualified. If that is the case...

Vincour-Benn-Ryder
Eriksson-Eakin-Mueller
Ott-Glennie-Latendresse
Morrow-Fiddler-Nystrom

Dillon-Larsen
Goligoski-Holzer
Daley-Robidas
Pardy

Sign all the nontendered FAs.
I think Muller might resign with the Avalanche, or with a contending team like the Rangers and the Penguins. Although, he is pretty young, so he might want to sign with a young up-and-coming team like the Blues.

He's got a bunch of concussion problems that derailed his career so far, but I'd still take the chance on him. Also, he seems like a GMJN kind of player. Big, right-handed and can play center/wing. I would throw a 3 year 3.5-4.0 mil. contract at him. I wouldn't pay any higher than that though.

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06-25-2012, 07:31 PM
  #711
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Stars should definitely be in on a guy like Mueller. He could pay off in a big way and he's still young.

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06-25-2012, 07:44 PM
  #712
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Anyway Ryder is available and what would it take?

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06-25-2012, 07:55 PM
  #713
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Before I answer that, let us all take a minute to remember that Sean Avery is a UFA.

Finally.

**** Sean Avery (as a hockey player).

I would like a 2nd+ for Ryder at the deadline.

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06-25-2012, 08:07 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
Before I answer that, let us all take a minute to remember that Sean Avery is a UFA.

Finally.

**** Sean Avery (as a hockey player).

I would like a 2nd+ for Ryder at the deadline.
If he scores 30g again, we could probably snag a 1st. Mike Ryder is at his best when he's in the playoffs. Just ask the Bruins fans.

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06-25-2012, 08:41 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Ogi1Kenobi View Post
If he scores 30g again, we could probably snag a 1st. Mike Ryder is at his best when he's in the playoffs. Just ask the Bruins fans.
I think he returns at least a 1st at the deadline for sure. It doesn't matter what he does this season as long as he doesn't fall off a cliff, some contender always needs a scorer, and he has a legit playoff pedigree as well.

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06-25-2012, 11:16 PM
  #716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
Before I answer that, let us all take a minute to remember that Sean Avery is a UFA.

Finally.

**** Sean Avery (as a hockey player).

I would like a 2nd+ for Ryder at the deadline.
Didn't Paul Gaustad fetch a 1st last deadline?

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06-25-2012, 11:32 PM
  #717
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Ryder could fetch a top 20 first at the deadline if he scores ~25+ (by then). Maybe even more. He'd be a very valuable asset in my eyes.

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06-25-2012, 11:35 PM
  #718
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Disagree on Eriksson. If he were two years older maybe. But even in a "full rebuild" you can't get rid of absolutely every veteran and if you're going to keep one guy who wouldn't be around when the thing got back to respectability Eriksson would be the perfect type. A model of professionalism in every respect. The reason some rebuilds take for ****ing ever is because teams do trade every shred of NHL respectability from their roster.

Also, I don't really feel that it's fair to say we'd be going "full rebuild" even if we decided to trade those three remaining veterans mentioned all the time. I know fans of most teams feel good about their prospects but I really feel like the organization turned a corner in the last few years and is producing NHL quality players from the draft/undrafted FA's. It's possible that these prospects we currently have are good enough to be the foundation of a good hockey club and anything we added to that in terms of trade return for veterans would be what pushes us over the top.
If you're rebuilding, no way you turn down the package Eriksson can bring you. And he'd be 33 by the time the team was in the playoffs or at least making noise in the POs. Rebuilding teams don't come roaring out of the gates in a year or two, even if they're hitting on their picks.

On the second point, I really disagree. Here are Stars last 6 #1 picks:

2006 - Vishnevsky (traded for Lehtonen)
2007 - none
2008 - none
2009 - Glennie (#8 overall ... ugh)
2010 - Campbell
2011 - Oleksiak
2012 - Faksa

So basically, their current G, their future G, a RW who's avoiding the bust label by the skin of his teeth, good D prospect, good C prospect.

There is no elite talent in the system, particularly at C. This is a massive glaring hole. Consistently churning out marginal 2nd line/2nd pairing guys will get you nowhere ... actually it will get you a #10 to #14 draft pick every year into perpetuity.


Last edited by Famous Flames: 06-25-2012 at 11:49 PM.
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Old
06-26-2012, 12:01 AM
  #719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Famous Flames View Post
If you're rebuilding, no way you turn down the package Eriksson can bring you. And he'd be 33 by the time the team was in the playoffs or at least making noise in the POs. Rebuilding teams don't come roaring out of the gates in a year or two, even if they're hitting on their picks.

On the second point, I really disagree. Here are Stars last 6 #1 picks:

2006 - Vishnevsky (traded for Lehtonen)
2007 - none
2008 - none
2009 - Glennie (#8 overall ... ugh)
2010 - Campbell
2011 - Oleksiak
2012 - Faksa

So basically, their current G, their future G, a RW who's avoiding the bust label by the skin of his teeth, good D prospect, good C prospect.

There is no elite talent in the system, particularly at C. This is a massive glaring hole. Consistently churning out marginal 2nd line/2nd pairing guys will get you nowhere ... actually it will get you a #10 to #14 draft pick every year into perpetuity.
It stinks, but Loui could return the kind of assets necessary to jump start a rebuild.

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06-26-2012, 12:05 AM
  #720
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No, no, no. Rebuilds don't take 6 years, and if they do just fold the franchise now and get it over with. Eriksson is what you're building around. He should be a Star for as long as he wants to be.

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06-26-2012, 01:41 AM
  #721
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Originally Posted by Famous Flames View Post
If you're rebuilding, no way you turn down the package Eriksson can bring you. And he'd be 33 by the time the team was in the playoffs or at least making noise in the POs. Rebuilding teams don't come roaring out of the gates in a year or two, even if they're hitting on their picks.

On the second point, I really disagree. Here are Stars last 6 #1 picks:

2006 - Vishnevsky (traded for Lehtonen)
2007 - none
2008 - none
2009 - Glennie (#8 overall ... ugh)
2010 - Campbell
2011 - Oleksiak
2012 - Faksa

So basically, their current G, their future G, a RW who's avoiding the bust label by the skin of his teeth, good D prospect, good C prospect.

There is no elite talent in the system, particularly at C. This is a massive glaring hole. Consistently churning out marginal 2nd line/2nd pairing guys will get you nowhere ... actually it will get you a #10 to #14 draft pick every year into perpetuity.
What the hell do our first round picks have to do with anything? You're talking as if those are the only prospects we have.

I'm not expecting all of Chiasson, R. Smith, Stransky, Ritchie, Faksa, Oleksiak, Nemeth, Dillon, Klingberg, Larsen to be be studs but if even half of them can reach a decent amount of conservative projections this team will be fine. If one of them happens to be a stud then all the better; nobody but a select few of us expected Benn to be one and he appears to be.

To your first point, "rebuilding teams" generally don't have two players of the caliber of Eriksson and Benn. That's why this isn't a full on scorched earth rebuild.


Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
No, no, no. Rebuilds don't take 6 years, and if they do just fold the franchise now and get it over with. Eriksson is what you're building around. He should be a Star for as long as he wants to be.
Exactly. They simply don't take that long; this isn't 2003.

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Old
06-26-2012, 02:12 AM
  #722
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I don't think we're truly rebuilding unless (until?) we trade Kari.

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06-26-2012, 05:02 AM
  #723
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I don't think we're truly rebuilding unless (until?) we trade Kari.
What's the rush to trade Kari?
I think Joe should resign Kari, for a year or two. Let Campbell develop to an elite goalie and then trade Kari. Jack is only 20 years old, shouldn't be rushed.

I think Kari should be traded away only if someone overpays at the moment

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06-26-2012, 08:20 AM
  #724
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I think Joe should resign Kari, for a year or two.
That's not up to Joe.

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06-26-2012, 08:36 AM
  #725
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Who is your #1 C? Who is your #1 D? I don't mean the guy you throw out there. I mean the guy that actually matches up with Crosby, Toews and Kopitar/Weber, Phaneuf, Doughty.

I understand you don't want this, but this team is devoid of top end talent or assets to get top end talent. That's pretty amazing with the team's record the last several years, but that's where we are.

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