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FINAL: Where does Nash end up?

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Old
05-24-2012, 11:57 AM
  #376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
How is discussing Rick Nash's value hijacking a thread about Rick Nash's value? And quite a few people agree with me, like all the people who jumped in here and said "Hell no we won't trade Pavelski for Nash".

The only thing that's laughable here is a statement like "Pavelski and Nash are [not] equivalent in any way". In anyway? Really? So they didn't have nearly identical stats this season? That sounds pretty equivalent to me. How about last season having the exact same point total? Not equivalent?

There are a lot of people on this board who don't know a damn thing about Joe Pavelski or Rick Nash and are basing value purely on name recognition and speculation. That is what is going on here.
Pavelski and Ovie had "nearly identical stats this season" also. And, Pavelski has been getting better, while Ovie's production has been declining in recent years. OMG, not only are they "equivalent," Pavelski has certainly eclipsed Ovie - it's FACT! That, sir, is your argument. I think you are the one that has not ever really watched Rick Nash play hockey, but now you have backed yourself into this argument and have to defend it like a wounded animal. Nash is simply a better hockey player. Did the Blue Jackets overpay? Sure, but there is a cap floor, and that money has to be spent on someone. Would Rick Nash play a bigger role, and produce more than Pavelski if her were on the Sharks? Undoubtedly.

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05-24-2012, 12:06 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by Spice Trader View Post
If marleu and pavelski are so great... first line top producing stars... Why cant they win in SJ with a supporting cast of boyle thorton havlat couture... ect..
Dear Sir,

Winning championships takes more than having a bunch of high tier guys.

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05-24-2012, 12:07 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
I can see Rick Nash traded for Patrick Marleau. There would be picks and prospects probably involved in there somewhere but I can this happening.

Unless Marleau has a NTC then I guess that probably wouldn't happen...hehe.
i don't see this happening at all. CBJ would be looking to do a rebuild. They have the #2 overall pick this year which will help. If they trade for Nash it'll be for a combination of top picks/prospects and/or young roster players. Not for someone like Marleau

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05-24-2012, 12:07 PM
  #379
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I also would not want to trade Pavelksi or Couture for Nash. Nash is better than Pavs, he is not an extra 3.8 million for the next several years better.

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05-24-2012, 12:14 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by spot View Post
Makes sense. I see the jackets wanting a center, defenceman and a 1st

Hamilton, Bergeron, 1st

Nash

Could also be why there is alot of talking surrounding the Oilers and Jackets swapping picks? Maybe the Jackets don't need Murray now if they could get Hamilton? Perhaps they are willing to offer of Johansen if they land Bergeron?
Oh all this speculation is fun eh?
if im boston i dont make that deal.

maybe something like hamilton, horton, and 1st for nash + a little

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05-24-2012, 12:17 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by LukeD View Post
Haggs is far from a reliable source. He just parrots the information he finds online and tries to pass them off as his own. Usually he "reports" on things that happened weeks ago.

Not directed at you Luke:

Bergeron will not be part of ANY deal. He and Chara are off limits. Both of them plus Nathan Horton, Rich Peverley, Johnny Boychuk and Dennis Seidenberg have NTC.

Before proposing any trades, Capgeek.com should be consulted.

No thanks on Nash.

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Last edited by Alicat: 05-24-2012 at 12:28 PM.
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05-24-2012, 12:19 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
if im boston i dont make that deal.

maybe something like hamilton, horton, and 1st for nash + a little
No effing way to the bergeron one and still no way to the hamilton one.

Hamilton has shown he's got the makings to be a complete stud on the back end in the NHL. Boston ahs extremely high hopes for him. At Nash's cap hit and price tag, it's safe to say guys like hamilton, seguin, and bergeron are untouchable. Outside of that, i'd say anything could go (although i really hope Rask is an untouchable

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05-24-2012, 12:21 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Alycat View Post
Haggs is far from a reliable source. He just parrots the information he finds online and tries to pass them off as his own. Usually he "reports" on things that happened weeks ago.

No thanks on Nash.
This. Haggs is in no way an "insider", but still loves to report things as if he found them

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05-24-2012, 12:21 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Spice Trader View Post
I had thorton on the no show in the playoff list also till the last two years. He played a rugged intense game and i changed my opinion. Little Joe has also been clutch but hes not a guy you build around (no offence to him intended).
By your logic clearly neither is Rick Nash since he hasn't won a cup. That btw, was sarcasm, because it's a ridiculous way to evaluate an individual player.

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Originally Posted by BeersHockey View Post
Pavelski and Ovie had "nearly identical stats this season" also. And, Pavelski has been getting better, while Ovie's production has been declining in recent years. OMG, not only are they "equivalent," Pavelski has certainly eclipsed Ovie - it's FACT! That, sir, is your argument. I think you are the one that has not ever really watched Rick Nash play hockey, but now you have backed yourself into this argument and have to defend it like a wounded animal. Nash is simply a better hockey player. Did the Blue Jackets overpay? Sure, but there is a cap floor, and that money has to be spent on someone. Would Rick Nash play a bigger role, and produce more than Pavelski if her were on the Sharks? Undoubtedly.
First off, your comparison is completely asinine. Nash has never scored 65 goals and 112 points, never even gotten close. Pavelski and Nash career highs are within 9 goals and 13 points of each other. Nash and Ovie are 24 goals apart, that's a very deep and wide chasm sir.

Look, I'm done arguing who is the better player. My stance is Nash is more talented, but doesn't work as hard. Pavelski is less talented, and works harder. They achieve similar results, and I prefer the harder worker who brings a better two-way game. That is my OPINION and I am tired of debating it as it's fairly irrelevant to the conversation here.

The real point is, and always has been, Nash is not worth $3.8m a season over Pavelski. Even if Nash came to San Jose and reproduced his career season of 40g and 79p I still wouldn't pay $3.8m more for that over Pavelski's expected production. We are talking 13 points here (best case) + the loss of our best defensive forward and face off man. 13 points is not worth $3.8m.

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Originally Posted by Crazy Joe Divola View Post
I also would not want to trade Pavelksi or Couture for Nash. Nash is better than Pavs, he is not an extra 3.8 million for the next several years better.
Exactly. Even if you don't agree with me, claiming that somehow, at any point, Rick Nash has produced numbers good enough to warrant taking on an extra $3.8m in salary just for the CHANCE he'll do it again to me is stupid gm'ing at it's finest.

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05-24-2012, 12:28 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
if im boston i dont make that deal.

maybe something like hamilton, horton, and 1st for nash + a little
Haha good one.

I wouldn't trade Hamilton alone for Nash and that contract.

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05-24-2012, 12:29 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
if im boston i dont make that deal.

maybe something like hamilton, horton, and 1st for nash + a little
Horton has a full NTC

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05-24-2012, 12:41 PM
  #387
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How does comparing the sharks to the yankees mean anything? havent they won more championships than anyone esle? Didnt they win the WS like 3 years ago?

I can 100 % judge the SJ players playoff performances. They have had contending teams for close to a decade and have never even gotten to the finals. Marleu has consistenly produced in the regular season and disappeared in the playoffs.

Best example for nash is Kovie. Same situaion as nash for playoff experiance. He seems to have another gear as you can see in this years playoffs performance.

Could nash go the other way and be a flop? sure can thats the risk you take.

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05-24-2012, 12:53 PM
  #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
By your logic clearly neither is Rick Nash since he hasn't won a cup. That btw, was sarcasm, because it's a ridiculous way to evaluate an individual player.



First off, your comparison is completely asinine. Nash has never scored 65 goals and 112 points, never even gotten close. Pavelski and Nash career highs are within 9 goals and 13 points of each other. Nash and Ovie are 24 goals apart, that's a very deep and wide chasm sir.

Look, I'm done arguing who is the better player. My stance is Nash is more talented, but doesn't work as hard. Pavelski is less talented, and works harder. They achieve similar results, and I prefer the harder worker who brings a better two-way game. That is my OPINION and I am tired of debating it as it's fairly irrelevant to the conversation here.

The real point is, and always has been, Nash is not worth $3.8m a season over Pavelski. Even if Nash came to San Jose and reproduced his career season of 40g and 79p I still wouldn't pay $3.8m more for that over Pavelski's expected production. We are talking 13 points here (best case) + the loss of our best defensive forward and face off man. 13 points is not worth $3.8m.



Exactly. Even if you don't agree with me, claiming that somehow, at any point, Rick Nash has produced numbers good enough to warrant taking on an extra $3.8m in salary just for the CHANCE he'll do it again to me is stupid gm'ing at it's finest.
13 points could mean 13 extra wins in regulation. It more realistically means like 5 or 6. If I am management, I would pay 3.8 million for 10-12 extra points, and a higher playoff seeding. Also, you act like Nash will make 3.8 million more in perpetuity. Not likely in two years.

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05-24-2012, 12:57 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by BeersHockey View Post
13 points could mean 13 extra wins in regulation. It more realistically means like 5 or 6. If I am management, I would pay 3.8 million for 10-12 extra points, and a higher playoff seeding. Also, you act like Nash will make 3.8 million more in perpetuity. Not likely in two years.
Yeah, I think we may have to agree to disagree then.

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05-24-2012, 12:57 PM
  #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
First off, your comparison is completely asinine. Nash has never scored 65 goals and 112 points, never even gotten close. Pavelski and Nash career highs are within 9 goals and 13 points of each other. Nash and Ovie are 24 goals apart, that's a very deep and wide chasm sir.

Look, I'm done arguing who is the better player. My stance is Nash is more talented, but doesn't work as hard. Pavelski is less talented, and works harder. They achieve similar results, and I prefer the harder worker who brings a better two-way game. That is my OPINION and I am tired of debating it as it's fairly irrelevant to the conversation here.
It is completely relevant, because it's the basis by which you've been browbeating everyone here with the idea that Pavelski-for-Nash is a ripoff straight up because of Pavelski being "better".

An argument based on contract value is somewhat reasonable. But you keep trying to argue based on player ability and player value, and you keep doing so from a position that is ludicrous on its face to anyone who isn't a hardcore Sharks fan still bitter about Dany Heatley.

While I agree that Nash's contract is probably not the best value for the Sharks to be taking on, your repeated assertion that your second-liner is superior to our franchise player is not just idiotic, it's insulting as well.

You are free to prefer Pavelski to Nash. That's fair. We all have our strange preferences. But you're trying to make an objective case for why we should all be acknowledging Pavelski's superiority. And that's where you cross the line from having an unusual and unpopular opinion to trying to defend a ludicrous position.

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05-24-2012, 12:59 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Spice Trader View Post
How does comparing the sharks to the yankees mean anything? havent they won more championships than anyone esle? Didnt they win the WS like 3 years ago?

I can 100 % judge the SJ players playoff performances. They have had contending teams for close to a decade and have never even gotten to the finals. Marleu has consistenly produced in the regular season and disappeared in the playoffs.
Best example for nash is Kovie. Same situaion as nash for playoff experiance. He seems to have another gear as you can see in this years playoffs performance.

Could nash go the other way and be a flop? sure can thats the risk you take.
Completely untrue.

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05-24-2012, 01:10 PM
  #392
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this year 5 games 0 points -1. your right hes a playoff stud.

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05-24-2012, 01:10 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Bruins Stooge View Post
This. Haggs is in no way an "insider", but still loves to report things as if he found them
Did Haggs do something to you guys?

All I saw him do was write an article about the myths and facts about trading for Nash in which he brought up what others have been quoted as saying and he never claimed to be giving any groundbreaking news, just gathering it altogether in one place for Bruins fans to read.

There is a huge difference between that and what I think some people here are saying he does.

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05-24-2012, 01:14 PM
  #394
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This can't be posted enough:



Fun note as well, this was just after the deadline last year when Nash was being shopped.

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05-24-2012, 01:17 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by Bruins Stooge View Post
This. Haggs is in no way an "insider", but still loves to report things as if he found them

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05-24-2012, 01:20 PM
  #396
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Originally Posted by Spice Trader View Post
this year 5 games 0 points -1. your right hes a playoff stud.
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It is a sad state that in the world today people are not willing to make even a tiny effort to research things. Bluffing a debate is going to get you called out everytime.

Post Lockout Patrick Marleau:

78GP, 33g, 24a, 57P = .73ppg

Yah, he's useless! (btw, his career ppg in the regular season is .74, so he's literally exactly as good in the playoffs as in the regular season).
Thanks for playing.

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05-24-2012, 01:24 PM
  #397
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How does comparing the sharks to the yankees mean anything? havent they won more championships than anyone esle? Didnt they win the WS like 3 years ago?
In what way was I comparing the Sharks to the Yankees? I was simply pointing out the flaw in your logic that Pavelski and Marleau aren't great players because they haven't won a cup, even when playing with other great players.

Quote:
Marleu has consistenly produced in the regular season and disappeared in the playoffs.
Dear god you are just full of these gems, aren't you?
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Originally Posted by Spice Trader View Post
this year 5 games 0 points -1. your right hes a playoff stud.
One year, 5 games, against the best defense in the league who shut them out twice during the regular season. Yeah, that's certainly a better sample than the rest of his career, when you're making the claim that he consistently disappears in the playoffs.
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Originally Posted by BeersHockey View Post
13 points could mean 13 extra wins in regulation. It more realistically means like 5 or 6. If I am management, I would pay 3.8 million for 10-12 extra points, and a higher playoff seeding. Also, you act like Nash will make 3.8 million more in perpetuity. Not likely in two years.
I would too, but I'd be more inclined to pay $2M each, to two 3rd liners who are going to be better defensively and put up 15 points each.

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05-24-2012, 01:24 PM
  #398
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
Did Haggs do something to you guys?

All I saw him do was write an article about the myths and facts about trading for Nash in which he brought up what others have been quoted as saying and he never claimed to be giving any groundbreaking news, just gathering it altogether in one place for Bruins fans to read.

There is a huge difference between that and what I think some people here are saying he does.
It's not the Nash stuff per say. Read some of his other stuff and you'll see it. Shawn Thornton did an article 6 weeks ago about accepting a gay teammate. Yesterday, Haggs comes out with a story all about it acting like he's the first to report on it.


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It's a web graphic. Just because it says "insider" on it doesn't make it a fact.

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05-24-2012, 01:26 PM
  #399
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It's a web graphic. Just because it says "insider" on it doesn't make it a fact.
Sorry Aly, when CSNNE gives you your own pretty little graphic and pays you to cover the Bruins I'll give more weight to your posts on HFboards then Haggs thoughts on the subject.

To think he doesn't have connections to the team when he is paid to cover them, spends a ton of time with the players and the staff is incredibly naive.

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05-24-2012, 01:30 PM
  #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
Did Haggs do something to you guys?

All I saw him do was write an article about the myths and facts about trading for Nash in which he brought up what others have been quoted as saying and he never claimed to be giving any groundbreaking news, just gathering it altogether in one place for Bruins fans to read.

There is a huge difference between that and what I think some people here are saying he does.
It's classic Bruins HF. It's the same reason guys like Dale Arnold and Dupont don't come around this place anymore. We love having access to the information, but then we tear em down when they come off looking like they're more than a fan.

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