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Report: Red Wings choose architect for new, 18,000-seat arena

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Old
05-23-2012, 12:03 PM
  #101
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Howe Arena!

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05-23-2012, 12:38 PM
  #102
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IMO, if you're a fan of an Original 6 team, it's only natural to appreciate it's history.
For many of us, our fathers and grandfathers and even great-grandfathers rooted for these teams. We're playing for the Freakin' Stanley Cup -- an historic trophy.

Maybe there is no way to curb sponsorships and the horrid names that come with it. But that doesn't mean people who disagree with it shouldn't speak out.

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05-23-2012, 12:39 PM
  #103
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Howe Arena!
Wouldn't that be something?

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05-23-2012, 12:54 PM
  #104
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Wouldn't that be something?
But Amway Arena just flows off the tongue better.

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05-23-2012, 01:19 PM
  #105
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Howe Arena!
Please!

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05-23-2012, 02:59 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Sounds like you've been drinking the kool-aid.
"If you build it they will come" is a line from sappy sports movie. It's not reality. The benefits of shiny new sports arenas have been called into question, despite all of the monied interests who market these false ideas and push them as often as they can for their own selfish interests.
I don't believe sports arenas are necessarily a benefit to communities at all. I do, however, believe that it's not a zero sum game and that it needs to be looked at on a case by case basis. Would a new arena bring more events downtown? Yes. Would it benefit businesses in the area around it? Yes. Would it create desperately needed infrastructure jobs? Yes. Would a mid to high end retail development in the Woodward corridor be a huge benefit to the city? Yes. Would it spur development in the area, moreso than the two current stadiums already have because it's usable year round? Yes. A new arena isn't a magic pill that cures everything but it's value over the Joe as it exists currently is self evident and that's reason enough to push for this to happen.

Everything dies.

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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Is the Detroit Tigers baseball experience better today than it was in 1983? Because of that stadium?
What a load of crap.
I loved Tiger Stadium as much as anyone and went to a game in the last series played there and cried like a baby. But it wasn't workable and the Joe isn't workable now. Tiger Stadium didn't have nearly as many issues going against it as the Joe does, anyway, so it's not even a good comparison... Tiger Stadium was in what had become a terrible location and that made redevelopment less than ideal. The Joe is a horrible arena in nearly every way, so bad that it was outdated within a decade of being built. There is literally nothing to recommend about it except for the sightlines and our own nostalgia, and even then there are a lot of people my father's age who know that it will always pale in comparison to Olympia in both regards.

As for the names, I've already told you that I could not care even the littlest bit. It's the name of the game in 2012 and it's never going back. You can sit there tilting at windmills all you want but it's not going to accomplish anything... stop worrying and learn to love the bomb.

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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
The Joe gives people a reason to be down there near the river.
Riverfront stadiums/arenas are pretty awesome, IMO.
But I don't see it happening. Illitch has had his eye on other spots for years.
The riverfront should be the jewel in downtown Detroit's crown. It's not because we have a giant, ugly concrete block sitting there in the best location in the area. And on top of that, because space is so hard to come by over there it never had and never could spur development. It is literally the definition of a lose-lose situation. Tear it down and give us the aesthetically pleasing new Cobo with an expanded riverwalk and some retail/restaurant options and that will do more for the riverfront than 40 years of the Joe ever did.

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Originally Posted by DarkReign View Post
Waxing poetic for Tiger Stadium and Joe Louis Arena, lol.

We get it, you like ****holes and history. Historical Plumbing?
Please stop. It's a false equivalency. Tiger Stadium was a beautiful historical relic, a throwback to an era when ballpark design was an art. It was out of date, but not hopelessly so as Fenway later showed. It had to be abandoned because it was in the middle of what had become the worst area in the downtown core, not because of any actual fault with it as a building.

Compare with the Joe which was a cheap, ugly monstrosity even for it's own time and was hopelessly out of date even when the Palace was being designed 6 or 7 years later. Without the rose colored lenses of nostalgia, there is no reason anyone should be mourning for the Joe... it's not even the second most iconic arena the Red Wings have played in.

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Old
05-23-2012, 03:25 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
I don't believe sports arenas are necessarily a benefit to communities at all. I do, however, believe that it's not a zero sum game and that it needs to be looked at on a case by case basis. Would a new arena bring more events downtown? Yes. Would it benefit businesses in the area around it? Yes. Would it create desperately needed infrastructure jobs? Yes. Would a mid to high end retail development in the Woodward corridor be a huge benefit to the city? Yes. Would it spur development in the area, moreso than the two current stadiums already have because it's usable year round? Yes. A new arena isn't a magic pill that cures everything but it's value over the Joe as it exists currently is self evident and that's reason enough to push for this to happen.
And when those games leave the Joe... businesses around the Joe die (not that there are many).
What kind of jobs are we talking about? More service industry jobs? Meh.
This will make money for some business owners. Especially those who are "in" the know with Illitch.


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I loved Tiger Stadium as much as anyone and went to a game in the last series played there and cried like a baby. But it wasn't workable and the Joe isn't workable now.
Not workable? For who? Fans? Illitc?

Quote:
Tiger Stadium didn't have nearly as many issues going against it as the Joe does, anyway, so it's not even a good comparison... Tiger Stadium was in what had become a terrible location and that made redevelopment less than ideal.
My friends and I, as school kids in the 80s, would take the tunnel bus to the Ren Cen, and walk from downtown Detroit to Tiger Stadium... No issues. Tiger Stadium was in a fine location as far as Detroit goes.

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The Joe is a horrible arena in nearly every way, so bad that it was outdated within a decade of being built. There is literally nothing to recommend about it except for the sightlines and our own nostalgia, and even then there are a lot of people my father's age who know that it will always pale in comparison to Olympia in both regards.
I could care less about walking into arenas that feel like spacious shopping malls or amusement parks.
What I recommend about the Joe: The Red Wings play there. That's is ALL i will recommend about the new arena.
THis other stuff is FLUFF for people who really aren't there for hockey games.

Quote:
As for the names, I've already told you that I could not care even the littlest bit. It's the name of the game in 2012 and it's never going back. You can sit there tilting at windmills all you want but it's not going to accomplish anything... stop worrying and learn to love the bomb.
Why would I want to "love" the bomb? I think that eventually, there will be a backlash against the overcommercialization of everything.

Personally, I spend MORE money on clothing that doesn't have corporate logos. Because I think slapping logos on everything is crass and kind of disgusting.
There is a growing portion of society that is sick and tire of corporate marketers trying to get in their grill every two seconds.
It might be the name of the game in 2012. But the world changes.

Quote:
The riverfront should be the jewel in downtown Detroit's crown. It's not because we have a giant, ugly concrete block sitting there in the best location in the area. And on top of that, because space is so hard to come by over there it never had and never could spur development. It is literally the definition of a lose-lose situation. Tear it down and give us the aesthetically pleasing new Cobo with an expanded riverwalk and some retail/restaurant options and that will do more for the riverfront than 40 years of the Joe ever did.
It isn't like the Joe Louis is preventing great ideas for Downtown Detroit. With just a little bit of imagination, and a lot of money, the Joe could be incorporated into a great riverfront plan.




Quote:
Please stop. It's a false equivalency. Tiger Stadium was a beautiful historical relic, a throwback to an era when ballpark design was an art. It was out of date, but not hopelessly so as Fenway later showed. It had to be abandoned because it was in the middle of what had become the worst area in the downtown core, not because of any actual fault with it as a building.
I don't believe Tiger Stadium was beautiful. But it was all about baseball. You walked out of the gloomy concourse and boom... baseball diamond and seats... nothing else. No Ferris wheels. No skyline. Just baseball.

I really don't see the "need" to replace the Joe after 30 years. If Illitch wants to do it, fine. If he wan't to let Amway trade on his name, that's up to him.
He can live with whatever negative consequences come his way.

Quote:
Without the rose colored lenses of nostalgia, there is no reason anyone should be mourning for the Joe... it's not even the second most iconic arena the Red Wings have played in.
my god. What other reason is there to mourn a building?
These fancy pants arenas you crave... what good are they? Why will they be loved? Because they are convenient???
Hah.
I think it's a poor use of resources to get 30 years out of an arena.
I can't wait to see people worshipping at the altar of their next giant stucco palace.

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05-23-2012, 04:28 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
And when those games leave the Joe... businesses around the Joe die (not that there are many).
What kind of jobs are we talking about? More service industry jobs? Meh.
This will make money for some business owners. Especially those who are "in" the know with Illitch.
Construction jobs for both the arena and the retail development? And of course on the related M1 project and all the other development this will spur in the area, where nearly every power player owns land (which is why they're going through with M1 alone in the first place). There is no such thing as a "meh" job in this area at this moment.


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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Not workable? For who? Fans? Illitc?

My friends and I, as school kids in the 80s, would take the tunnel bus to the Ren Cen, and walk from downtown Detroit to Tiger Stadium... No issues. Tiger Stadium was in a fine location — as far as Detroit goes.
Hilariously inaccurate assessment. Corktown was and still is a haven for those crackheads you're so fond of mentioning and there were a lot of muggings in the area in the 80's and 90's. Especially after the train depot closed and became a hotel for those sorts of people. There is a reason that nothing could be done with the site after it was torn down, it's a bad location... not geographically but from a safety perspective.

People were sad to see Tiger Stadium go, but it's not like there was some sort of backlash to either the idea or the location of Comerica.



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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I could care less about walking into arenas that feel like spacious shopping malls or amusement parks.
What I recommend about the Joe: The Red Wings play there. That's is ALL i will recommend about the new arena.
THis other stuff is FLUFF for people who really aren't there for hockey games.
Walkable concourses and usable bathrooms are really fluffy amenities, huh.

And if you only care about the Joe because the Wings play there, why are you so adamant that they stay there forever even when it's clearly not in their own best interests?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Why would I want to "love" the bomb? I think that eventually, there will be a backlash against the overcommercialization of everything.

Personally, I spend MORE money on clothing that doesn't have corporate logos. Because I think slapping logos on everything is crass and kind of disgusting.
There is a growing portion of society that is sick and tire of corporate marketers trying to get in their grill every two seconds.
It might be the name of the game in 2012. But the world changes.
I see a lot of people who say the same things and then when push comes to shove they buy the Calvin Klein shirt and go to the game at (insert bank) Arena. Until there's an actual downside to owners to doing this, it won't stop. So are you going to put your money where your mouth is and refuse to go to the Amway Arena when the time comes?



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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
It isn't like the Joe Louis is preventing great ideas for Downtown Detroit. With just a little bit of imagination, and a lot of money, the Joe could be incorporated into a great riverfront plan.
It's a big, ugly block of concrete that's standing in the way of desperately needed infrastructure. Let it die.



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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I don't believe Tiger Stadium was beautiful. But it was all about baseball. You walked out of the gloomy concourse and boom... baseball diamond and seats... nothing else. No Ferris wheels. No skyline. Just baseball.

I really don't see the "need" to replace the Joe after 30 years. If Illitch wants to do it, fine. If he wan't to let Amway trade on his name, that's up to him.
He can live with whatever negative consequences come his way.

Oh yes, how horrible to incorporate the skyline into a stadium or provide entertainment options for small children... stadiums should have absolutely no merit or purpose outside of providing a place for you to see the game! Tiger Stadium was great because it had architectural merit. It would have been as great if you could have seen the skyline and it would have been as great if there was a Ferris wheel.

The Joe needs to be replaced because it's horribly outdated and both Illitch and the city are losing out on money because of it. It's a double edged sword, you see no reason to replace it but I ask you... what are the reasons that they should keep it?



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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
my god. What other reason is there to mourn a building?
These fancy pants arenas you crave... what good are they? Why will they be loved? Because they are convenient???
Hah.
I think it's a poor use of resources to get 30 years out of an arena.
I can't wait to see people worshipping at the altar of their next giant stucco palace.
There are plenty of reasons to mourn a building... architectural beauty, cultural or historical significance and so on. A new arena will be loved if it's nicer. And it will be because the Joe, like it's even uglier cousin in Uniondale, is a real turd of a building and a monument to the absolute nadir of sports architecture. Poor use of resources? The thing was built so cheaply that they probably got their moneys worth out of it within a year or two, so don't fret!

Frankly, you seem amazingly willing to deny that there could be any merit to any potential new stadium which makes me think you're just spouting the usual "I DON'T LIKE IT"-ism.

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05-23-2012, 04:54 PM
  #109
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Yeah, Bob's on the wrong side of this one by a mile.

Just let him navigate somebody to a game in a wheelchair and tell me it's "fluff" I'm asking for. What a ****ing joke.

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05-23-2012, 05:02 PM
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too many paragraphs and quote boxes

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05-23-2012, 05:09 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
Construction jobs for both the arena and the retail development? And of course on the related M1 project and all the other development this will spur in the area, where nearly every power player owns land (which is why they're going through with M1 alone in the first place). There is no such thing as a "meh" job in this area at this moment.
Construction jobs are nice. And temporary.




Quote:
Hilariously inaccurate assessment. Corktown was and still is a haven for those crackheads you're so fond of mentioning and there were a lot of muggings in the area in the 80's and 90's. Especially after the train depot closed and became a hotel for those sorts of people. There is a reason that nothing could be done with the site after it was torn down, it's a bad location... not geographically but from a safety perspective.

People were sad to see Tiger Stadium go, but it's not like there was some sort of backlash to either the idea or the location of Comerica.

That's ridiculous.
Tiger Stadium's redevelopment was the one thing that COULD have rebuilt the neighborhood.
I have no problem with the location of Comerica.
I just don't buy every god damn lie told to me by a millionaire with a plan for his next million.

Quote:
Walkable concourses and usable bathrooms are really fluffy amenities, huh.
I can walk the concourses and use the bathrooms.

Quote:
And if you only care about the Joe because the Wings play there, why are you so adamant that they stay there forever even when it's clearly not in their own best interests?
I am not adamant they stay there forever.
Who said I was?


Quote:
I see a lot of people who say the same things and then when push comes to shove they buy the Calvin Klein shirt and go to the game at (insert bank) Arena. Until there's an actual downside to owners to doing this, it won't stop. So are you going to put your money where your mouth is and refuse to go to the Amway Arena when the time comes?
Maybe. Maybe not.
In general, the Prince Fielder contract struck a cord with me.

All these pro sports fans fixated by the "business" side of sports, to me, aren't sports fans. They are wannabe moguls or want to believe they are "in the know" or engaging in the "heady issues."

As I work in my life, talking to cities and school districts going broke, and watching custodians have their jobs outsourced and former Ford jobs get replaced with $11 an hour jobs and teachers lose pensions -- As life gets worse and worse for your average joe job guy --- Mike Illitch spent $200 million or something on a single baseball player. Now Illitch is cozying up to ******** on the west side of the state for political reasons, as much as anything, if you ask me.

Hearing people defend Amway as a name for the Joe reminds me of how screwed up our values are.
I gave up on baseball... from 1982-88, I could probably tell you who started at every position in major league baseball. In 1986-87, the owners colluded against Free Agents, and sent my favorite player to the Cubs.
I decided to say so long to the Expos as my favorite team and follow the player.
By the time he retired, I was essentially done with baseball.

The only sport I follow now is hockey. But you know, I don't have to watch the NHL. The World Championships was great. The Olympics was great. UofM hockey is great hockey. Plymouth isn't too far down the road...

So I don't know. Maybe I won't set foot in the Amway Arena.
Maybe by the time the Stanley Cup is renamed the Speedway Quickie Stop Trophy, I will have moved on.


Quote:
Oh yes, how horrible to incorporate the skyline into a stadium or provide entertainment options for small children... stadiums should have absolutely no merit or purpose outside of providing a place for you to see the game! Tiger Stadium was great because it had architectural merit. It would have been as great if you could have seen the skyline and it would have been as great if there was a Ferris wheel.
Yeah. Not my cup of tea,
When I was a kid, going to games with my dad and uncle, baseball was kind of boring. But you know, we watched. I learned. Because that's where we were. I learned to appreciate the speed and atmosphere that is baseball.

Now you've got kids screaming to go on Ferris Wheel rides by the 2nd inning.
Great idea!
Corporate America trying to be all things to all people and failing on every account.

Quote:
The Joe needs to be replaced because it's horribly outdated and both Illitch and the city are losing out on money because of it. It's a double edged sword, you see no reason to replace it but I ask you... what are the reasons that they should keep it?
It needs to be replaced if it needs to be replaced.
I've seen arenas and stadiums last a lot longer than 30 years.

It depends on your perspective. If you're Mr I and can afford to build and make more money, that's one perspective.
If you are the city and you're losing the Red Wings, and you're looking at city plans, that's another perspective.
If you are a fan, that's another perspective.

I'm speaking for me, as a fan. The one modern arena I've been to is Columbus. Nice arena. Brick is nice. Fits the Arena district. But there's nothing memorable about it as a fan.
Building feels like it could be built in any city in America.
How would I rate Red Wings vs. BJs at "Nationwide" Arena vs Red Wings vs BJs at the Joe?
I enjoy the Joe a bit better. The arena experience is fine at either place for me.



Quote:
There are plenty of reasons to mourn a building... architectural beauty, cultural or historical significance and so on. A new arena will be loved if it's nicer. And it will be because the Joe, like it's even uglier cousin in Uniondale, is a real turd of a building and a monument to the absolute nadir of sports architecture. Poor use of resources? The thing was built so cheaply that they probably got their moneys worth out of it within a year or two, so don't fret!
Right. So maybe you're an architecture student. I dunno. I can appreciate a nice looking building. I can appreciate historical/cultural signficance.

I know what kind of building they are planning for Detroit. It's going to be a freakin' mall with a hockey arena in it. Architecture? hahahahah.
It'll be some Ode to Stucco..

Look at the palace. Once, it was considered a great arena. Now it looks like someone puked a strip mall in the middle of nowhere.


Quote:
Frankly, you seem amazingly willing to deny that there could be any merit to any potential new stadium which makes me think you're just spouting the usual "I DON'T LIKE IT"-ism.
I'm not arguing there is no merit.
I am arguing that I don't like it.
You're pretending that you have some understanding of the business of big league sports and getting all condescending about it.

"If you don't like Amway Arena," we need Brodie to tell us "what we need to understand."

I understand it perfectly.

I don't have to like it.

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05-23-2012, 05:15 PM
  #112
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Yeah, Bob's on the wrong side of this one by a mile.

Just let him navigate somebody to a game in a wheelchair and tell me it's "fluff" I'm asking for. What a ****ing joke.
Cry me a river,

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05-23-2012, 05:49 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Oh please.
So we should be thankful that the West Michigan scam artists are willing to bankroll this project so we can pay higher ticket prices and they can legitimize the name of their scam company on the back of an original six hockey team?


Why? To make it more likely to build a good, sterile, cookie-cutter arena?
This is all good for money makers involved in the deal.
For the typical fan, this doesn't matter one.single.bit.
It was only a scam of you were dumb enough to fall for it. Everyone and their mother knew who they were/are all about.

As for Howe Arena, we have one in TC already.

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05-23-2012, 06:21 PM
  #114
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It was only a scam of you were dumb enough to fall for it. Everyone and their mother knew who they were/are all about.

As for Howe Arena, we have one in TC already.
That's not exactly a ringing endorsement
And really, that's what this Amway thing is all about. Endorsement.

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05-23-2012, 07:49 PM
  #115
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Even with more suites 18,000 is still kind of disappointing. This is 2012 and these are the Detroit Red Wings, and we settle for below average capacity when it seems with modern technology arenas should be able to be built larger and more efficiently than ever before. If they really do sell out every game than why not up the capacity, that would mean much more revenue. Come on, you cant say you wouldn't love a 22,000 or 23,000 seat mega arena. Just imagine the playoff atmosphere with that many people plus the ticket price benefits that would must likely occur.

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05-23-2012, 09:00 PM
  #117
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I can walk the concourses and use the bathrooms.
Not everyone has that luxury. The arena has to better account for those with disabilities and the next one will.

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05-23-2012, 09:11 PM
  #118
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Not everyone has that luxury. The arena has to better account for those with disabilities and the next one will.
We dont need a new corporate sponsored arena just to put in ramps.

I will offer my services and put some wooden ramps around the Joe it if means not selling out the Wings history so they can play in the Fidelity Prudential Coca Cola Quicken Loans Amway Arena.

Why cant they renovate the Joe like they did with Madison Square Garden?

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05-23-2012, 09:12 PM
  #119
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I agree with the majority - The Joe's a dump.

It's has nice sightlines. That's it. The seats are small and lack leg room.

The concourse is like a cattle corral between periods, even for the guys, there's a lineup for the bathrooms, and pissing in a through is always grand, but it won't be missed.

There's isn't **** to do around the Joe, except maybe take a stroll along the waterfront.

The only other NHL rink I've been inside, is the HP Pavilion in SJ. It reminds me a lot of the Palace. Suites on the lower levels, bright concourse, with windows filling the main entrances, and plenty wide. The view from my seat was pretty nice too (lower upper bowl, close to $100 when all said and done with TM fees though), and parking wasn't too bad. Only negatives I had, was that it's near the airport, and there's not a ton to do around the arena.

I've been around the Honda Center in Anaheim, and that's a beautiful building, but the palm trees probably wouldn't survive a Michigan winter.

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05-23-2012, 09:49 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Construction jobs are nice. And temporary.
They're jobs.


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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
That's ridiculous.
Tiger Stadium's redevelopment was the one thing that COULD have rebuilt the neighborhood.
I have no problem with the location of Comerica.
I just don't buy every god damn lie told to me by a millionaire with a plan for his next million.
No it couldn't... the presence of the Tigers did nothing to stop the neighborhood from going bad so there is no reason to believe their continued presence would have lead to a renascence. It made a lot more sense to consolidate around the relatively thriving and mostly safe Woodward corridor.

I'm perfectly capable of parsing out the BS from the reality, we just seem to have different priorities and beliefs about these things.


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I can walk the concourses and use the bathrooms.
a lot of people can't... and the arena's lack of compliance with the ADA is pathetic.



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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I am not adamant they stay there forever.
Who said I was?
if not now, when? when you decide it's not all about the money or whatever it is you're railing against here?


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All these pro sports fans fixated by the "business" side of sports, to me, aren't sports fans. They are wannabe moguls or want to believe they are "in the know" or engaging in the "heady issues."
or they're people who are interested in something more than just the on field goings on? There are fans who obsess over the draft, are they wannabe scouts who want to believe they're in the know?

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Hearing people defend Amway as a name for the Joe reminds me of how screwed up our values are.
I don't think anyway has defended Amway, just said it's that or nothing and that I don't care at all.

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Yeah. Not my cup of tea,
When I was a kid, going to games with my dad and uncle, baseball was kind of boring. But you know, we watched. I learned. Because that's where we were. I learned to appreciate the speed and atmosphere that is baseball.

Now you've got kids screaming to go on Ferris Wheel rides by the 2nd inning.
Great idea!
Corporate America trying to be all things to all people and failing on every account.
I'm not sure that's an actual problem.

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It needs to be replaced if it needs to be replaced.
I've seen arenas and stadiums last a lot longer than 30 years.
Arenas that were built to last... how many arenas built in the 70's or earlier are still in use in the NHL and NBA, not counting those that have been totally overhauled? Three? And the other two are very close to being replaced. Stadiums from that era were not built to last... they were thrown up on the cheap as fast as possible with a lot of shortcuts taken. Remember that the Joe was halfway done before they figured out they hadn't designed it with a press box.

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I'm speaking for me, as a fan. The one modern arena I've been to is Columbus. Nice arena. Brick is nice. Fits the Arena district. But there's nothing memorable about it as a fan.
Building feels like it could be built in any city in America.
How would I rate Red Wings vs. BJs at "Nationwide" Arena vs Red Wings vs BJs at the Joe?
I enjoy the Joe a bit better. The arena experience is fine at either place for me.
the difference between the character of the Joe and the character of Nationwide is about 20 years. The difference is that 20 years from now, Nationwide won't be considered as big a dump as the Joe is today. And in 1978, the Joe could have been built anywhere, too.



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I know what kind of building they are planning for Detroit. It's going to be a freakin' mall with a hockey arena in it. Architecture? hahahahah.
It'll be some Ode to Stucco..

Look at the palace. Once, it was considered a great arena. Now it looks like someone puked a strip mall in the middle of nowhere.
They're building a retail development at the United Center in Chicago, the same kind they're obviously planning here.... this is what it looks like:



ode to stucco indeed

As for the Palace, it's a fine arena (location aside). The fact that it's 25 years old and isn't even slightly out of date is a testament to the planning Davidson and his team put in. There's a story floating around that when he first hired Rossetti, they went on a tour of the Joe after which Rossetti said "that's everything we want this place not to be".

I'm not telling you how you should think, I'm just trying to bring perspective to the situation to keep people from freaking out over things that won't change.

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05-23-2012, 09:49 PM
  #121
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I understand the nostalgic desire to hang onto older buildings. I didn't go to enough games at Tiger Stadium to know how badly outdated it was, but I do know that going to games at the Joe is like watching a game in a beer-and-urine soaked parking garage where you can't use the bathroom or buy anything to eat if you don't want to miss half a period of hockey.

I've been to games in Chicago, Florida, and D.C. Those arenas aren't all brand-new, but they're all modern buildings that are much more convenient for the fans. There are multiple concourses so you're not fighting for trough space with 17,000 other dudes. Or, conversely, you or your lady friend aren't fighting with 75 other women over the same 3 bathroom stalls.

With any luck they'll be playing hockey in the new building for 100 years and we'll have all kinds of great memories there just like we have at the Joe.

And hopefully they don't name it something stupid.

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05-23-2012, 09:54 PM
  #122
Brodie
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
We dont need a new corporate sponsored arena just to put in ramps.

I will offer my services and put some wooden ramps around the Joe it if means not selling out the Wings history so they can play in the Fidelity Prudential Coca Cola Quicken Loans Amway Arena.

Why cant they renovate the Joe like they did with Madison Square Garden?
the footprint won't support any expansion and, frankly, the city needs the land for Cobo expansion so it makes sense to give it to them.

the Wings are the Wings no matter what name of the arena they play in is. This hyperbole about selling out history is inane... the Habs history has really lost it's luster since they sold those arena naming rights, eh?

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05-23-2012, 10:25 PM
  #123
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That's not how it would work, they have a hard enough time filling the Joe. Remember this is Detroit, not Chicago. And why would they want to make their tickets less expensive? Believe it or not, it's a business and they're not trying to do the fans any favors. The two Ilitch venues in Detroit (Comerica Park & The Joe) have some of the highest price concessions in all of sports, look it up if you don't believe me.

The new arena in Pittsburgh has a capacity of ~18500 (not sure if that includes suites), so the Wings are just keeping with the status quo here. I just hope they don't design a total cookie cutter arena.
Filling the joe might be a problem, but they still sell out which brings in a lot of revenue. They probably do not care much if the people show up, the seats are still sold. Also, if the building has more seats available the chances of finding a better deal on tickets is definitely higher, the prices might not get inflated as quick when the game is approaching. And of course they would not want to make the tickets less expensive, that would be idiotic to think but with a larger capacity arena they would most likely be slightly cheaper, thats how the market works. If the capacity of Comerica was reduced by 10,000 you can not say ticket prices would not raise, its the same concept.

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05-23-2012, 10:30 PM
  #124
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It never ceases to amaze me the amount of bickering, and irrational arguing people take part in on this board.

Also, why are people even debating/talking about where the new arena will be? It was decided years ago and was pretty visible in the news. It's going to be right by the Fox. Illich already owns the land and has been very open to letting ppl know that the new arena will be at that location.

As for the name - I could care less. As long as they transfer the banners over I am good to go. I mean you can ramble on as much as you want about "when you were a kid" - or lecture us about your feelings on prince fielders contract while touching on the plight of the "common man" in relation to said contract. Unfortunately for you here In the real world arenas that cost hundreds of millions of dollars often need financing. More often, that financing involved corporate sponsors. So while you may not like it - please spare us from any more "morality as I see it" rants.

As for the move itself. I am impervious. I would have been happy with staying at the Joe or with the new arena. I will miss the joe but enjoy the new memories and history that the new arena brings about.

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05-23-2012, 11:13 PM
  #125
RedWingsNow*
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
I'm not telling you how you should think, I'm just trying to bring perspective to the situation to keep people from freaking out over things that won't change.
I think public pressure can give Mr I pause for thought on naming something "Amway Arena."

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