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2014 — Russia Roster Discussion

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Old
12-09-2013, 11:09 PM
  #501
Evolu7ion
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I wonder if perhaps this is the coach's way of challenging Kuznetsov to work his ass off and earn his way onto the team by catching fire in league play. Basically, "prove to me you belong on the team".

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12-09-2013, 11:51 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by EvoLu7ioN View Post
I wonder if perhaps this is the coach's way of challenging Kuznetsov to work his ass off and earn his way onto the team by catching fire in league play. Basically, "prove to me you belong on the team".
I don't think so, how much fire can he really catch in the next 3 weeks in the KHL before they announce the roster. I think this is it for him. Such a shame. Kid probably wishes he went to the NHL sooner.

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12-10-2013, 02:15 AM
  #503
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Originally Posted by EvoLu7ioN View Post
I wonder if perhaps this is the coach's way of challenging Kuznetsov to work his ass off and earn his way onto the team by catching fire in league play. Basically, "prove to me you belong on the team".
I think it's not about catching fire it's about a two-way play and I doubt he'll turn into Datsyuk in three weeks. If Russians would play a fire-wagon hockey Kuznetsov would be in but Bilyaletdinov is not that kind of coach. He values players who play the right way and Kuznetsov is anything but that

And absolutely, Kuznetsov should have gone to the NHL two years ago.

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12-10-2013, 04:28 AM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
If they don't have better options, hopefully the Russian coach isn't stupid and plays Emelin on the pp. Good shot and good hockey sense.
It's one of the options, but we have a lot of them here. The main threats in pp are Markov and Voinov. They might be put together, might be splitted and put with Kovalchuk/Ovechkin at blue line. About that we might have Medvedev, who is good at offense too. And there is Nikulin, whom I personally don't like this season, but in his prime he used to play at pp.

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12-10-2013, 05:41 AM
  #505
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Interesting tidbit in the Pittsburgh paper from late last month after the Pens played the Capitals: http://blog.triblive.com/chipped-ice...#axzz2n4D1fA8B.

You might have noticed Malkin is playing in all three zones more than at any time during recent regular-season memory. That is no accident. Alex Ovechkin noted that Malkin’s role could be different for Russia than it is the Penguins. That role, at least at even strength, will likely be difference-making third-line center.

Remember what Jordan Staal meant to the Penguins during the 2009 Stanley Cup run? Malkin is Russia’s Staal.

Shudder at the thought Dan Bylsma probably does.


Rossi is a goof of a Pittsburgh reporter, but I think a lot of non-Russian fans of Malkin (the ones who knew nothing about his game before he came into the NHL) assume that he always projected to be this dynamic goal scorer.

Me, I always saw him coming into the NHL as what Pierre McGuire described him as 7 years ago . . . a guy who plays like Ron Francis on steroids. As such, I always saw him as an elite playmaking center who can score dynamic goals (versus someone like Ovi, who truly is a dynamic goal scorer).

I think the 'third line center' thing is a stupid reference too easily misconstrued as disrespectful, but Malkin being to Russia what Staal was to the Pens in their 2009 cup run . . . yeah, I actually could see that, because I'm not sure who else COULD do that save maybe Datsyuk, who IMO best serves Russia with two offensive players.

If that is the plan, then I'd put Malkin with Kulemin on one wing and a guy who will score some goals but be a SOB to play against two way on the other wing (closest thing you've got to James Neal when he's ON his two way game).

Is that Tarasenko? Someone else?

Whoever it is, IMO a Kulemin-Malkin-Tarasenko (other?) line could be as good a shutdown line as there is and really give other teams **** fits offensively.

Anyway, has anyone heard anything about what Ovi intoned Malkin's role COULD be? Does it make sense?

EDIT: Semin might be interesting as the third with Malkin and Kulemin, but it also might be a bit of a gamble. That said, I absolutely think Russia will be best served putting Kulemin with Malkin. The question shouldn't be 'who's the best player' and then say 'o'k, let's put him with Malkin'. The question should be what two players are going to get the most out of Malkin. That's why Dave King writes in his book that he put Kulemin with Malkin, not because he was the most talent player but because he was the player best suited to help you get the most out of Malkin. The model in the KHL and the NHL, IMO, is one winger is a guy like Kulemin or Malone, and the other is a guy like Neal. What you get from that, IMO, is a line that, as a whole, gives you a dynamic greater than the sum of its parts.


Last edited by KIRK: 12-10-2013 at 05:48 AM.
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Old
12-10-2013, 05:54 AM
  #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
If that is the plan, then I'd put Malkin with Kulemin on one wing and a guy who will score some goals but be a SOB to play against two way on the other wing (closest thing you've got to James Neal when he's ON his two way game).

Is that Tarasenko? Someone else?

Whoever it is, IMO a Kulemin-Malkin-Tarasenko (other?) line could be as good a shutdown line as there is and really give other teams **** fits offensively.
You're at least 3d guy here, who suggested this line Let's hope Bill will notice smth similar
The most thing I'm afraid of so far - Bill put Malkin with Perezhogin and ruin everything

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12-10-2013, 05:55 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
If they don't have better options, hopefully the Russian coach isn't stupid and plays Emelin on the pp. Good shot and good hockey sense.
There are better options to play the point, namely Kovalchuk, Markov, Voynov, OV, Nikulin to name a few.

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12-10-2013, 05:58 AM
  #508
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
EDIT: Semin might be interesting as the third with Malkin and Kulemin, but it also might be a bit of a gamble. That said, I absolutely think Russia will be best served putting Kulemin with Malkin. The question shouldn't be 'who's the best player' and then say 'o'k, let's put him with Malkin'. The question should be what two players are going to get the most out of Malkin. That's why Dave King writes in his book that he put Kulemin with Malkin, not because he was the most talent player but because he was the player best suited to help you get the most out of Malkin. The model in the KHL and the NHL, IMO, is one winger is a guy like Kulemin or Malone, and the other is a guy like Neal. What you get from that, IMO, is a line that, as a whole, gives you a dynamic greater than the sum of its parts.
I absolutely agree with this but regarding the usage of Malkin as a shutdown center.. It would be like plowing a field with Ford Mustang. Sure you can do that, but does it make sense?

I watched Malkin an awful lot lately and really payed attention to his two-way play and the truth is he is not a great defensive player. He's no Toews or Bergeron or.. Datsyuk. To me it would seem ridiculous to sacrifice his best qualities for the sake of turning him into a Staal.

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12-10-2013, 06:18 AM
  #509
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Originally Posted by Namba 17 View Post
You're at least 3d guy here, who suggested this line Let's hope Bill will notice smth similar
The most thing I'm afraid of so far - Bill put Malkin with Perezhogin and ruin everything
That's a different story.

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Originally Posted by SoundAndFury View Post
I absolutely agree with this but regarding the usage of Malkin as a shutdown center.. It would be like plowing a field with Ford Mustang. Sure you can do that, but does it make sense?

I watched Malkin an awful lot lately and really payed attention to his two-way play and the truth is he is not a great defensive player. He's no Toews or Bergeron or.. Datsyuk. To me it would seem ridiculous to sacrifice his best qualities for the sake of turning him into a Staal.
1. 'Shutdown' is a bit of a misnomer. I'm not sure there's a true 'shutdown' line for Russia.

2. I think a lot of people will be surprised how Malkin looks defensively for Russia if put into more of a two way role against the other team's top players, and I think all but Penguins fans (like me) will fail to understand why he doesn't look the same way in Pittsburgh (where he plays for a coach who sees him as a glorified goal scorer and in a system that plays far too much to his weaknesses as a player).

Playing more of a puck possession game, with a guy like Kulemin and another good two way winger, I suspect you'll see Malkin being quite the puck hawk defensively. IMO, defensively where he runs into trouble is when he feels the urge to pick up the slack for or otherwise doesn't trust his linemates. He tries to do everything himself and looks like a cluster**** doing it. It's not unlike what happens to his offensive game when he's set up to fail.


Last edited by KIRK: 12-10-2013 at 06:25 AM.
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Old
12-10-2013, 07:59 AM
  #510
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Btw. About "shutdown"/"Áhecking" lines. Don't see why do we need one. Shutdown line - is a NHL invention and it was made not because of the game reasons, but money ones. They play it 'cause checkers are cheaper than scorers and with salary limit you can't have 4 scoring lines at one team.
What we need is as more well-balanced lines with chemistry as possible.

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12-10-2013, 11:10 AM
  #511
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Just by skimming a few pages I noticed Belov in a couple mock-rosters. What are the chances he cracks Russia's top 6 on defense.

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12-10-2013, 12:21 PM
  #512
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Just by skimming a few pages I noticed Belov in a couple mock-rosters. What are the chances he cracks Russia's top 6 on defense.
Well, he has some Definitely, they are not very good, but I can't say they are none. Channel One Cup is the main event to tell smth more precisely - a lot will depend on this tournament.
Look, we have 3 almost locked D's - Markov, Emelin, Voinov. So, we need - find another 4 Ds (the main task), find pair for Voinov (the secondary task).
I, presonally, think, that we should find descend shutdown D to pair Voinov. In this case, Belov chances increase, I guess, but still far from 100%. But who knows. Let's wait for COC
Another candidates - Nikulin, Medvedev, Birukov, Ryasenskiy, Chudinov, Tyutin... well, I think, I named them all

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12-10-2013, 12:50 PM
  #513
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I really think Medvedev and Nikuli are locks. Medvedev one of the best KHL defensemans right now, and Bil`s favort Nikulin.

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12-10-2013, 12:55 PM
  #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Namba 17 View Post
Well, he has some Definitely, they are not very good, but I can't say they are none. Channel One Cup is the main event to tell smth more precisely - a lot will depend on this tournament.
Look, we have 3 almost locked D's - Markov, Emelin, Voinov. So, we need - find another 4 Ds (the main task), find pair for Voinov (the secondary task).
I, presonally, think, that we should find descend shutdown D to pair Voinov. In this case, Belov chances increase, I guess, but still far from 100%. But who knows. Let's wait for COC
Another candidates - Nikulin, Medvedev, Birukov, Ryasenskiy, Chudinov, Tyutin... well, I think, I named them all
I was thinking that: Markov, Emelin, voynov, Kulikovare locks with Belov/Tyutin/Nikitin/KHL players to fill the rest. Obviously you know more about your team though!
Either way wish I wish Russia the best of luck at home, thanks for the reply!

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12-10-2013, 02:24 PM
  #515
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I really think Medvedev and Nikuli are locks. Medvedev one of the best KHL defensemans right now, and Bil`s favort Nikulin.
Medvedev is likely locked, Nikulin is close to it. Let's just wait for COC

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12-10-2013, 02:32 PM
  #516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hall04 View Post
I was thinking that: Markov, Emelin, voynov, Kulikov are locks with Belov/Tyutin/Nikitin/KHL players to fill the rest. Obviously you know more about your team though!
Kulikov is far from lock now, I guess. I dunno If Bill considers him at all. He was not invited to summer camp...

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Either way wish I wish Russia the best of luck at home
Thank you!

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12-10-2013, 04:25 PM
  #517
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Kulikov has zero chance to make the team. Zero.

The article about Malkin playing a checking role is the dumbest bit of speculation I've read in a while.

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12-10-2013, 05:07 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by Namba 17 View Post
You're at least 3d guy here, who suggested this line Let's hope Bill will notice smth similar
The most thing I'm afraid of so far - Bill put Malkin with Perezhogin and ruin everything
Yeah, Malkin with Kulemin and Tarasenko would be an interesting line. Both wingers are very defensively resposible, and Tarasenko has a hell of a snipe and can pass as well. Exactly what Geno needs.

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12-10-2013, 07:34 PM
  #519
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If you're indeed using a 1 year sample size there's no way Kuznetsov deserves to go
Should we invite Morozov still? I mean he was great in the past. The shape the players are in right now is what counts. Is Yakupov some day a candidate. Yes, I tink he'll be there. Right now? Not so much.


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Why is that?
Because:

NHL: Markov, Voynov, Emelin

KHL: Nikulin, Medvedev, Ryasensky

are pretty much locks. Tyutin would have to light the world on fire until January to get one of the two spots left. He wasn't good on big ice with the NT.

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12-10-2013, 07:38 PM
  #520
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Kulikov has zero chance to make the team. Zero.
Kulikov spoiled his resume with Bill during the lockout. With the slump he's in now he's out, far out.

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12-10-2013, 07:41 PM
  #521
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Btw. About "shutdown"/"Áhecking" lines. Don't see why do we need one. Shutdown line - is a NHL invention and it was made not because of the game reasons, but money ones. They play it 'cause checkers are cheaper than scorers and with salary limit you can't have 4 scoring lines at one team.
What we need is as more well-balanced lines with chemistry as possible.
sounds like you missed like 30 years of hockey. and to maybe dissapoint you Tarasov has had shutdown lines, so...

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12-10-2013, 07:49 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by EvoLu7ioN View Post
I wonder if perhaps this is the coach's way of challenging Kuznetsov to work his ass off and earn his way onto the team by catching fire in league play. Basically, "prove to me you belong on the team".
Say, he scores 15 goals and 30 points until 7th January. I think Bill would take notice. But it really has to be something like that.

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12-10-2013, 10:36 PM
  #523
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Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
Because:

NHL: Markov, Voynov, Emelin

KHL: Nikulin, Medvedev, Ryasensky
Ryasensky? Are you kidding me? He's not even the best D in SKA this season (I would easily take Alexandrov over him at the moment), how is he going to Olympics?

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12-10-2013, 11:35 PM
  #524
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Ryasensky? Are you kidding me? He's not even the best D in SKA this season (I would easily take Alexandrov over him at the moment), how is he going to Olympics?
Alexandrov is a flake.

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12-11-2013, 12:28 AM
  #525
Namba 17
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sounds like you missed like 30 years of hockey. and to maybe dissapoint you Tarasov has had shutdown lines, so...
Could you, please, provide us with the sources of your information, or explain your opinion (one can says that all Epshtain's lines were "checkers" but it was just different aproach to game)


Last edited by Namba 17: 12-11-2013 at 04:45 AM. Reason: grammar:)
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