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2014 - Finland Roster Discussion

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Old
08-10-2013, 03:17 AM
  #376
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Do you really think that Barkov will be better than Immonen 2013-2014?

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08-10-2013, 03:48 AM
  #377
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Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
T.Ruutu - J.Ruutu - L.Komarov
I.Melart - J.Karalahti
T.Rask

for finland 4th line would be interesting to see. mayhem on ice.
Jarkko is not going to Sochi, and hopefully the same goes for Karalahti. And Tuomo's not playing on the 4th line. Komarov brings enough mayhem on his own.

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Do you really think that Barkov will be better than Immonen 2013-2014?
If Barkov takes a permanent spot in the Panthers' roster and does fine, he passes Immonen. It's possible, whether it's a likely scenario is up for debate. Besides, Immonen is hardly suitable for the 4th line role. I don't think Erkka's going to pick the 4 or 5 most skilled centers, but the ones that are the most suitable. The Koivus have secured spots, and it's possible OJ may have one as well, so we could be left with one starting lineup spot for a center and one for an extra. Most likely that spot in the starting lineup would be in the 3rd or 4th line.


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08-10-2013, 03:54 AM
  #378
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Komarov brings enough mayhem on his own
That is 100% true

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08-10-2013, 08:31 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
If Barkov takes a permanent spot in the Panthers' roster and does fine, he passes Immonen. It's possible, whether it's a likely scenario is up for debate. Besides, Immonen is hardly suitable for the 4th line role. I don't think Erkka's going to pick the 4 or 5 most skilled centers, but the ones that are the most suitable. The Koivus have secured spots, and it's possible OJ may have one as well, so we could be left with one starting lineup spot for a center and one for an extra. Most likely that spot in the starting lineup would be in the 3rd or 4th line.
I think it would be a mistake to leave Kontiola off the team. I believe he will do good on the big ice. Add Aaltonen to that and you really got something.

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08-10-2013, 09:56 AM
  #380
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I think it would be a mistake to leave Kontiola off the team. I believe he will do good on the big ice. Add Aaltonen to that and you really got something.
It wouldn't really surprise me if Kontiola was picked but ended up sitting in the pressbox as an extra forward for the entire tournament. He was not convincing in the WHC games that were played against NHL players (USA x 2 and Sweden). To me it seemed that he did not know how to play against them, it wasn't about not being talented enough. Since he's going to keep on playing in the KHL, he will be faced with the same issue in the Olympics. I'm sure several KHL forwards would do well against the lesser countries like Austria and Norway, but it's the big guns we're going to have to do well against if we want a medal. With that said, if it was my decision, I wouldn't promise OJ a damn thing based on his recent performances, but Erkka may see it differently. I'm not at all certain that both Kontiola and OJ can be in the same starting lineup.


Last edited by Gaps: 08-10-2013 at 10:06 AM.
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08-11-2013, 06:17 AM
  #381
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It wouldn't really surprise me if Kontiola was picked but ended up sitting in the pressbox as an extra forward for the entire tournament. He was not convincing in the WHC games that were played against NHL players (USA x 2 and Sweden). To me it seemed that he did not know how to play against them, it wasn't about not being talented enough. Since he's going to keep on playing in the KHL, he will be faced with the same issue in the Olympics. I'm sure several KHL forwards would do well against the lesser countries like Austria and Norway, but it's the big guns we're going to have to do well against if we want a medal. With that said, if it was my decision, I wouldn't promise OJ a damn thing based on his recent performances, but Erkka may see it differently. I'm not at all certain that both Kontiola and OJ can be in the same starting lineup.
What if OJ has a bad season, Barkov doesn't take a permanent spot in FLA, Saku doesn't feel fresh enough to play, what are your options? Can Korpikoski, Granlund, and J.Jokinen play as center? Who will take their places on the wing?

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08-11-2013, 11:11 AM
  #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4tt145 View Post
What if OJ has a bad season, Barkov doesn't take a permanent spot in FLA, Saku doesn't feel fresh enough to play, what are your options? Can Korpikoski, Granlund, and J.Jokinen play as center? Who will take their places on the wing?
J.Jokinen and Filppula would play centre in that case.

Leino could be another option if a scoring centre is needed.

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08-11-2013, 11:47 AM
  #383
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Jokinen - M. Koivu - Filppula
Korpikoski - Kontiola - Granlund
T. Ruutu - Barkov - Armia
Komarov - S. Koivu - Bergenheim
Leino

Timonen - Salo
Väänänen - Vatanen
Pitkänen - Melart
Lepistö

Rinne
Rask
Lehtonen

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Old
08-11-2013, 12:22 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by m4tt145 View Post
What if OJ has a bad season, Barkov doesn't take a permanent spot in FLA, Saku doesn't feel fresh enough to play, what are your options? Can Korpikoski, Granlund, and J.Jokinen play as center? Who will take their places on the wing?
Granlund and JJ can, at least in theory. So can Leino and Filppula, but I don't trust Leino's (or Granlund's) center game on this level at all. I think the first guy to be moved to center would be Filppula if it really came to that (= no Saku, OJ or Barkov). The other two spots would then be taken by a suitable 4th line center like Kapanen and most likely Kontiola, and in the unlikely case that we start losing centers to injuries/something else on an almost daily basis, an emergency solution would be to let Komarov center the 4th line. Moving Filppula to center could possibly open a place for Leino at wing, but at this point he's one huge question mark and not a lock for the team.

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08-11-2013, 01:48 PM
  #385
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J.Jokinen - M.Koivu - V.Filppula
S.Salo - K.Timonen
T.Rask

P.Kontiola - J.Lehterä - Mi.Granlund
J.Pitkänen - T.Lydman
P.Rinne

T.Selänne - S.Koivu - L.Korpikoski
S.Vatanen - J.Niskala
A.Niemi

T.Ruutu - A.Barkov - L.Komarov
I.Melart - O.Väänänen

13th O.Jokinen
14th A.Pihlström

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08-11-2013, 01:48 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
Granlund and JJ can, at least in theory. So can Leino and Filppula, but I don't trust Leino's (or Granlund's) center game on this level at all. I think the first guy to be moved to center would be Filppula if it really came to that (= no Saku, OJ or Barkov). The other two spots would then be taken by a suitable 4th line center like Kapanen and most likely Kontiola, and in the unlikely case that we start losing centers to injuries/something else on an almost daily basis, an emergency solution would be to let Komarov center the 4th line. Moving Filppula to center could possibly open a place for Leino at wing, but at this point he's one huge question mark and not a lock for the team.
I'd say that our KHL centres, Kontiola, Immonen, Kapanen and Lehterä take preference before any "designated wingers" get moved to the middle, whether they can actually execute the role adequately or not. Fil might be an exception if he plays center almost exclusively at Tampa, but the rest of the guys will still be slotted as wingers no matter what. There really needs to be a mass of injuries before Granlund, Jokinen, T.Ruutu or Leino get a consideration as a centre.

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Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
J.Jokinen - M.Koivu - V.Filppula
S.Salo - K.Timonen
T.Rask

P.Kontiola - J.Lehterä - Mi.Granlund
J.Pitkänen - T.Lydman
P.Rinne

T.Selänne - S.Koivu - L.Korpikoski
S.Vatanen - J.Niskala
A.Niemi

T.Ruutu - A.Barkov - L.Komarov
I.Melart - O.Väänänen

13th O.Jokinen
14th A.Pihlström
If T.Ruutu and M.Koivu are both on the team, there's a snowflake's chance in hell they'll play in different lines. Also, Kontiola is NOT a winger. This was discussed pretty extensively earlier.

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08-11-2013, 02:25 PM
  #387
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Yes i know neither lehterä or kontiola are wingers but both are so hard to cut from team. if building team finland and dropping players is hard i just wonder how canadians feel like doing it. Mikko koivu has played pretty damn good with jussi jokinen and filppula too , forcing tuomo go there might not be best idea. they have dynamite history put you cant force those 2 together if it harms entire team. tuomo in smaller role say in 3rd or 4th line could serve and balance team better.

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08-11-2013, 03:02 PM
  #388
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I'd say that our KHL centres, Kontiola, Immonen, Kapanen and Lehterä take preference before any "designated wingers" get moved to the middle, whether they can actually execute the role adequately or not. Fil might be an exception if he plays center almost exclusively at Tampa, but the rest of the guys will still be slotted as wingers no matter what. There really needs to be a mass of injuries before Granlund, Jokinen, T.Ruutu or Leino get a consideration as a centre.
That's what I believe too, but I have a hard time imagining Erkka going into the Olympics with three KHL centers in the lineup unless he's absolutely forced into it by circumstances. That's why I think Filppula may get moved to center if needed. The others are staying at wing.


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Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
Yes i know neither lehterä or kontiola are wingers but both are so hard to cut from team. if building team finland and dropping players is hard i just wonder how canadians feel like doing it. Mikko koivu has played pretty damn good with jussi jokinen and filppula too , forcing tuomo go there might not be best idea. they have dynamite history put you cant force those 2 together if it harms entire team. tuomo in smaller role say in 3rd or 4th line could serve and balance team better.
Unless it turns out that the reason Lehterä's been so underwhelming with the NT was because Jalonen's style just didn't suit him (and Erkka's suits him better), it won't be that hard to cut him. A million chances but no payoff- No Sochi for Lehterä. He has no merits on the NT despite having had plenty of chances and even if he's the best player in the KHL, that itself won't help us in Sochi if the guy goes on some kind of mental lockdown when he pulls Finland's jersey on. If he wants to go to Sochi, he has a lot to prove, and I'm not talking about the KHL.

I don't see putting Tuomo with Mikko as harmful for the team. If we had a capable finisher in his prime who would be ousted from the 1st line because of the Tuomo/Mikko connection, then it would be harmful, but we only have Selänne who will not be capable of playing on the 1st line (assuming he will be Olympic caliber at all, which isn't a given at this point either). They like each other, they like playing together, let's let them have their fun and hope it turns into something good again. The 4th line can more than manage without Tuomo on it.

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08-12-2013, 03:35 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
I don't see putting Tuomo with Mikko as harmful for the team. If we had a capable finisher in his prime who would be ousted from the 1st line because of the Tuomo/Mikko connection, then it would be harmful, but we only have Selänne who will not be capable of playing on the 1st line (assuming he will be Olympic caliber at all, which isn't a given at this point either). They like each other, they like playing together, let's let them have their fun and hope it turns into something good again. The 4th line can more than manage without Tuomo on it.
Besides, utilizing the past chemistries is probably one of the biggest advantages we have over all the other contenders, if not the most important. While I don't say that we should haul in every guy who has at some point played with someone else, not utilizing the opportunity when it presents itself is nothing but pure madness. Because then our team will be no better than what it appears on paper - and then we lose. Which is exactly why I said that I wouldn't be surprised if we see some players who may not be first choices on individual comparison, but who form too tentative a package when paired with someone else.

Also, while both Filppula and Jokinen have arguably played well with Koivu, neither of them still have played as well as Ruutu. So that's a huge leap in logic right there. And there's no precedent whatsoever that having those two together is "hurting the team" - in fact, nothing but the opposite. It's pretty obvious that our friend has this wet dream about a total banger 4th line that hits everything that moves and these pretty frivolous arguments are a result of trying to defend said dream. Well, Ruutu is not the only candidate for such a role, far from it. And he should not be the first pick for it either, given how he has talents that will be far more useful higher in the lineup.

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08-12-2013, 03:47 AM
  #390
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Kontiola played the wing in AHL and also for a little bit in Tappara.

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08-12-2013, 04:11 AM
  #391
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Kontiola played the wing in AHL and also for a little bit in Tappara.
Not to a great success, obviously, or he still would be doing it from time to time.

If Kontiola is too good to ignore as a centre, that does not mean he should be turned into a winger, especially if we have people better suited for wings. There IS a difference between those two roles, and not everyone can maintain the same level in both.

I'm satirizing of course, but I wonder when we see somebody suggesting that since we have so many stud-class goalies, perhaps they could be utilized to patch the holes in our defense...

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08-12-2013, 04:40 AM
  #392
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I think people are over hyping Koivu and Ruutu pairing. its been a while since tuomo has dominated at the highest level and he missed most of last season. he needs to prove he can be finlands topline and produce. if you guys live in the past and old achievements then why not bring Olli Jokinen and Ville Peltonen together they played well too. For sure tuomo is important player and has big role in team but like i said forcing him to top pairing on old merits is questionable and thats why im questioning it.

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08-12-2013, 05:11 AM
  #393
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Not to a great success, obviously, or he still would be doing it from time to time.

If Kontiola is too good to ignore as a centre, that does not mean he should be turned into a winger, especially if we have people better suited for wings. There IS a difference between those two roles, and not everyone can maintain the same level in both.

I'm satirizing of course, but I wonder when we see somebody suggesting that since we have so many stud-class goalies, perhaps they could be utilized to patch the holes in our defense...
He was good at the wing but better as a center.

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08-12-2013, 06:06 AM
  #394
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I think people are over hyping Koivu and Ruutu pairing.
There is nothing to overhype, and nothing to question. Those two have always been dynamite together. That's a fact. And unlike Peltonen and Jokinen, both are still players in their prime whose showings are far from outdated. Which pretty much makes them the most surefire, no-brainer pairing we've got.

And it's got nothing to do with living in the past, but noting the fact that putting together those players who know each other and have chemistry has, is and always will be one of the biggest assets we've got. To voluntarily let go from that advantage is down right mental. At least until we actually rival Canada in depth. Splitting up true-and-tried player combinations is the last resort, once we've actually got proof that it doesn't work anymore. Of which you've got none.

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He was good at the wing but better as a center.
And barring a load of injuries, we do have enough people better suited for wing than what he is.

I'm not saying Kontiola could not play wing. What I'm saying is that he should not be one of our first-choice wingers, because he'd still be a round peg in a square hole. And we shouldn't resort to using those before we run out of square pegs.

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08-12-2013, 06:20 AM
  #395
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Its not the magical chemistry alone. You can put 50 players alongside Mikko Koivu and they would improve theyre game. I think if Mikko had Selänne on his wing that line would score more than with tuomo and we are talking finlands first line that needs to score in this tournament in order for us to succeed. Put Filppula, Mi Granlund, J.Jokinen, Aaltonen, Bergenheim or even Leino alongside Mikko and they would shine. Sure tuomo and mikko have good chemistry and they have played a lot in the past gives them maybe 10% edge on other lineups. lets just see if tuomo can even play in the olympics with his injury proneness.

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08-12-2013, 06:37 AM
  #396
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Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
Its not the magical chemistry alone. You can put 50 players alongside Mikko Koivu and they would improve theyre game. I think if Mikko had Selänne on his wing that line would score more than with tuomo and we are talking finlands first line that needs to score in this tournament in order for us to succeed. Put Filppula, Mi Granlund, J.Jokinen, Aaltonen, Bergenheim or even Leino alongside Mikko and they would shine. Sure tuomo and mikko have good chemistry and they have played a lot in the past gives them maybe 10% edge on other lineups. lets just see if tuomo can even play in the olympics with his injury proneness.
But you did not put Selänne in there, but you put Jussi Jokinen who is not an improvement over Ruutu.

And Koivu is actually a pretty bad fit with players of so-called "artistic" nature, he didn't click with Aaltonen in 2011 WHC and he had trouble clicking with Martin Havlat when he played for the Wild. Which makes me doubt he'd be a good fit for Leino either. He clicks well with jack-of-all-trades, straight shooters and power forwards. Filppula or Granlund are the most likely choices for Koivu's other wing, but the rest of the candidates for the other side have proven to be no better picks than Ruutu.

And Ruutu's injury proneness is no argument for not having him in the ideal lineup. You could take half the guys out of the roster based on that.

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08-12-2013, 06:59 AM
  #397
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i put selänne there just as an example. if olympics were played today id put JJ MK and VF anyday as first line

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08-12-2013, 07:01 AM
  #398
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Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
i put selänne there just as an example. if olympics were played today id put JJ MK and VF anyday as first line
I'd still like to know what makes you give Jokinen a preference over Ruutu. The short streaky stint he had while stunting Crosby with the Pens?

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08-12-2013, 07:16 AM
  #399
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Jokinen is and has always been better sniper than Tuomo Ruutu. You need guy like that playing alongside valtteri and mikko. you can have team that competes every shift 100% and fill the team with niko kapanen type players but u also need goalscoring and raw talent skill i see that coming from Jussi. (never thought id praise jussi this much)
i like this back and forth chatter more guys are free to hop in with oppinions

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08-12-2013, 07:33 AM
  #400
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Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
Jokinen is and has always been better sniper than Tuomo Ruutu.
Oh, really? Now, if their career scoring stats actually reflected that...

In fact, Ruutu's are better. He has scored more goals in both his club career and in the NT. And this despite Ruutu spending far more time in the infirmary than Jokinen.


In the name of honesty though, they're not notably better. Rounding up, the two are technically even. But there's still no basis whatsoever to the claim that Jokinen is the better sniper.

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