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2014 - Finland Roster Discussion

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Old
08-12-2013, 02:21 PM
  #401
mattihp
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Jokinen turned into too much of a passer when he went over to the NHL. If he dared to use his shot more he would have more goals AND assists.

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08-13-2013, 04:13 AM
  #402
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That's the problem with Jokinen, he is extremely streaky. He can have a hot bout lasting for a couple of weeks when he's practically unstoppable, and then fade into obscurity for a month or two.

Ruutu is far more of a steady churner who usually keeps himself in a stable 0.5 ppg pace no matter what.


Of course, both of them have done more than enough to secure their place in this team. But Jokinen's role is far safer bet as an utility player, trusting him to be the key scorer of the squad has a healthy dose of wishful thinking mixed in.

Though neither can Ruutu be expected to lead the team in scoring - in fact, we have no player at all at the moment who could reliably do that. This is why utilizing the known chemistries when applicable is more crucial than ever. You can't expect Koivu and Ruutu tear the town up, but those two can still pretty much read each others' minds at this point, meaning they're still one of the better options, regardless.

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08-25-2013, 07:10 AM
  #403
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From YLE:

http://yle.fi/urheilu/saku_koivu_on_...avista/6784648

"Saku Koivu is ready to step down as captain for Finland."

Not a surprise. He also says there has to be a decision both himself and Mikko are fine with so that it doesn't become a sort of a burden. I think the decision will be that Mikko takes the job.

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08-25-2013, 11:03 AM
  #404
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Not a surprise. He also says there has to be a decision both himself and Mikko are fine with so that it doesn't become a sort of a burden. I think the decision will be that Mikko takes the job.
Funny little conceptual mistake (by Koivu himself?) in there. He akins himself getting the captaincy in Nagano despite Kurri being in the team, while Kurri has never been Team Finland's staple captain.

Before Saku, it was Timo Jutila. And this is not simply due to Kurri being less often available - both were for example in 1994 WHC squad and Jutila was still the captain.

So Saku getting the captaincy was no big deal in Nagano, because the last staple was not in the squad at all. Which won't likely be the case in Sochi.


But yeah, looks like carrying the main letter is Mikko's job now.

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08-25-2013, 11:23 AM
  #405
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Funny little conceptual mistake (by Koivu himself?) in there. He akins himself getting the captaincy in Nagano despite Kurri being in the team, while Kurri has never been Team Finland's staple captain.

Before Saku, it was Timo Jutila. And this is not simply due to Kurri being less often available - both were for example in 1994 WHC squad and Jutila was still the captain.

So Saku getting the captaincy was no big deal in Nagano, because the last staple was not in the squad at all. Which won't likely be the case in Sochi.


But yeah, looks like carrying the main letter is Mikko's job now.
It's hard to say what Saku really meant by that part about Kurri, because I find it difficult to believe he's forgotten all about Juti. Oh well, he got his point across so I guess the details don't matter that much.

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08-25-2013, 11:45 AM
  #406
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i would personally give timonen the C

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08-25-2013, 03:35 PM
  #407
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i would personally give timonen the C
Yeah. About as likely as Tuomo Ruutu not playing on the captain's wing. Kimmo is a very good leader as well though.

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08-29-2013, 01:51 PM
  #408
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Good game from Lehterä today. his finally hitting it in national team and making push for the 2nd/3rd line center spot for sochi

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08-29-2013, 04:34 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
Good game from Lehterä today. his finally hitting it in national team and making push for the 2nd/3rd line center spot for sochi
If he can keep it up all weekend, he's definitely entering contention.

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08-30-2013, 02:37 PM
  #410
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I guess we can stop speculating whether Teemu is in or not.

Sixth games. He will rise to tie Raipe's record. Given how he also already holds the points record, he'll pretty much enter history as the greatest hockey olympian ever.


Last edited by FiLe: 08-30-2013 at 02:43 PM.
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08-30-2013, 07:55 PM
  #411
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Given how he also already holds the points record, he'll pretty much enter history as the greatest hockey olympian ever.
That's only becouse of slim pickings since NHL players has only been there since 1998 and many guys of his generation did not get to play in Calgary, Albertville and Lillehammer. Teemu had 11 points in eight games in Albertville which we have to subtract becouse they came against so called amateurs. Better to go by Best-on-Best tournaments and then Mats Sundin by somewhat slim margins turns out to be the best of their generation.

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08-30-2013, 09:36 PM
  #412
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Better to go by Best-on-Best tournaments and then Mats Sundin by somewhat slim margins turns out to be the best of their generation.
Mm. It may be true that Sundin is the man to look up to on top competition, but it still doesn't change the fact that Selänne's individual achievements in the olympics are about to become unmatched.


And when you look at it, the margin even when counting all available best-on-best is EXTREMELY slim.

Selänne
1991 CC 1+1
1996 WC 3+2
1998 OG 4+6
2002 OG 3+0
2004 WC 1+3
2006 OG 6+5
2010 OG 0+2
Total 18+19

Sundin
1991 CC 2+4
1996 WC 4+3
1998 OG 3+0
2002 OG 5+4
2004 WC 1+4
2006 OG 3+5
Total 18+20


All Selänne needs is one assist to tie Sundin in points, and one goal or two assists to overtake. He may not be in shape anymore to win any scoring titles if and when he gets picked to Sochi, but it is quite unlikely he'll go completely pointless.


Last edited by FiLe: 08-30-2013 at 09:50 PM.
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08-30-2013, 10:17 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Mm. It may be true that Sundin is the man to look up to on top competition, but it still doesn't change the fact that Selänne's individual achievements in the olympics are about to become unmatched.


And when you look at it, the margin even when counting all available best-on-best is EXTREMELY slim.

Selänne
1991 CC 1+1
1996 WC 3+2
1998 OG 4+6
2002 OG 3+0
2004 WC 1+3
2006 OG 6+5
2010 OG 0+2
Total 18+19

Sundin
1991 CC 2+4
1996 WC 4+3
1998 OG 3+0
2002 OG 5+4
2004 WC 1+4
2006 OG 3+5
Total 18+20


All Selänne needs is one assist to tie Sundin in points, and one goal or two assists to overtake. He may not be in shape anymore to win any scoring titles if and when he gets picked to Sochi, but it is quite unlikely he'll go completely pointless.
Yeah, but Sundin has fewer games played and has been more consistantly great through the tourneys instead of having two that bolsters the total.

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08-31-2013, 04:45 AM
  #414
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Swedish trolls can twist and try to turn stats anyway they want. we were talking greatest OLYMPIAN ever not world championships

we can compeare by putting the 3 where both played

Nagano 98
Selänne 4+6=10
Sundin 3+0=3

Salt Lake City 02
Selänne 3+0=3
Sundin 5+4=9

Torino 06
Selänne 6+5=11
Sundin 3+5=8

Total
Selänne 11+13=24
Sundin 11+9=20¨

add points from vancouver and albertville to that aswell + next years sochi i think theres no doubt who is the greatest king of olympic hockey. when u add canada cups and world cups the margin gets slim but still in favour of selänne. nice try tho

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08-31-2013, 05:06 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Yeah, but Sundin has fewer games played and has been more consistantly great through the tourneys instead of having two that bolsters the total.
I figured this argument would be coming. But isn't longevity one of the key aspects when racking up great individual records? Not even any of the Swedish players who have attained a legend status have done so by playing merely a great season or two and then quitting.

So the fact that Selänne can still handle himself on the top level and be far from dead weight nothing but bolsters the impressiveness of his achievements instead of lessening them.

Don't kid yourself. If Sundin was still playing and going strong, you'd definitely be hailing him for the iron man he is instead of trying to figure out frivolous arguments why his late-career stats shouldn't count. But alas, he's retired while Teemu is still going strong, fresh and enthusiastic as a spring chicken.

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08-31-2013, 07:29 AM
  #416
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Yeah, but Sundin has fewer games played and has been more consistantly great through the tourneys instead of having two that bolsters the total.
Could you Swedes stop being whiners and for once live by the reality? Who ever scores the most points, has most points. Selänne can possibly have he's sixth Olympics this season if things go well for him. Something that Sundin never could achieve. You have many succesfull things in hockey in general. And still you must be so arrogant and simple? You sound like yanks in youtube.

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09-01-2013, 06:58 AM
  #417
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How about:

T.Ruutu M.Koivu Filppula
Granlund Kontiola Aaltonen
J.Jokinen S.Koivu Selänne
Korpikoski Lehtärä Komarov
Barkov
O.Jokinen

Timonen Salo
Pitkänen Vatanen
Lepistö Väänänen

Rinne, Rask

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09-01-2013, 08:52 AM
  #418
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Originally Posted by m4tt145 View Post
How about:

T.Ruutu M.Koivu Filppula
Granlund Kontiola Aaltonen
J.Jokinen S.Koivu Selänne
Korpikoski Lehtärä Komarov
Barkov
O.Jokinen

Timonen Salo
Pitkänen Vatanen
Lepistö Väänänen

Rinne, Rask
Why in the world you put Lehterä in the 4th line? He should be the 2nd line C. Other than that it does look good.

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09-01-2013, 08:54 AM
  #419
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Originally Posted by m4tt145 View Post
How about:

T.Ruutu M.Koivu Filppula
Granlund Kontiola Aaltonen
J.Jokinen S.Koivu Selänne
Korpikoski Lehtärä Komarov
Barkov
O.Jokinen

Timonen Salo
Pitkänen Vatanen
Lepistö Väänänen

Rinne, Rask
Funny. I just made another possible roll last night, it was almost identical to this, save for 4th line where I had Lehterä replaced with Barkov, and Bergenheim as an extra instead of OJ.

But yeah, if Lehterä carries on like this in Sibir, he should become a serious contender. Erkka's game plan fit him like a glove. Kontiola's position as the euro top dog is threatened now. Salminen impressed too. Nice chemistry with Jori.

For some one-on-one comparison, I'd love to see lines with Lehterä-Salminen and Kontiola-Aaltonen in Karjala, with the tandem that fares better heading to Sochi.

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09-01-2013, 08:58 AM
  #420
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Why in the world you put Lehterä in the 4th line? He should be the 2nd line C. Other than that it does look good.
You think he's better than Kontiola? Actually, I think they're two best centers in the KHL.

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09-01-2013, 09:19 AM
  #421
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You think he's better than Kontiola? Actually, I think they're two best centers in the KHL.
Before the tour that just ended, I'd have said Kontiola is a better fit for the Finnish NT, but now... I don't know.

Either way, I wouldn't mind seeing at least one of 'em make it, and in a prominent role to a boot. At least they should get a very serious consideration instead of just defaulting the slot to someone like O.Jokinen, who currently has nothing but an NHL status and some five-year-old showings to his name.

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09-01-2013, 09:35 AM
  #422
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Salminen got thrown around in the WC last spring a lot and he's said himself that he cannot seem to gain muscle mass even if he tries to, so the Olympics are probably not the right place for him. It's a long way to Sochi from a pre-season EHT tournament.


Quote:
Originally Posted by m4tt145 View Post
How about:

T.Ruutu M.Koivu Filppula
Granlund Kontiola Aaltonen
J.Jokinen S.Koivu Selänne
Korpikoski Lehtärä Komarov
Barkov
O.Jokinen

Timonen Salo
Pitkänen Vatanen
Lepistö Väänänen

Rinne, Rask
Lehterä can't play on the 4th line and both him and Kontiola will not be playing unless there are injuries. If OJ rebounds, neither one of them is likely to play, but instead one gets to sit in the pressbox and the other one stays at home. The 4th line C will probably be Barkov if he sticks in the NHL, otherwise we're looking at N. Kapanen.

Short question that was brought up in the studio yesterday: Saku Koivu, PP or not? I'm leaning to no, but I imagine it would be a hard decision for Erkka to make, especially with Teemu being on the PP in any case.

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09-01-2013, 09:51 AM
  #423
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Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
Swedish trolls can twist and try to turn stats anyway they want. we were talking greatest OLYMPIAN ever not world championships

we can compeare by putting the 3 where both played

Nagano 98
Selänne 4+6=10
Sundin 3+0=3

Salt Lake City 02
Selänne 3+0=3
Sundin 5+4=9

Torino 06
Selänne 6+5=11
Sundin 3+5=8

Total
Selänne 11+13=24
Sundin 11+9=20¨

add points from vancouver and albertville to that aswell + next years sochi i think theres no doubt who is the greatest king of olympic hockey. when u add canada cups and world cups the margin gets slim but still in favour of selänne. nice try tho
What are you talking about, Troll Trollsson? I do know though that some finns have problems with the english language, and you are one of them obviously. You then go on to compare just the three Olympics where both participated. That's lame man. What was it you said now again? Ah: "Swedish trolls can twist and try to turn stats anyway they want."

Fact is that aside from the soviets and to some degree the czechs Olympic hockey pre-98 was a second, no make that third rate international tourney. At least the WHC allowed some pros to participate well before that.




And then we see two Mike Gartners strotting their case:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
I figured this argument would be coming. But isn't longevity one of the key aspects when racking up great individual records? Not even any of the Swedish players who have attained a legend status have done so by playing merely a great season or two and then quitting.

So the fact that Selänne can still handle himself on the top level and be far from dead weight nothing but bolsters the impressiveness of his achievements instead of lessening them.

Don't kid yourself. If Sundin was still playing and going strong, you'd definitely be hailing him for the iron man he is instead of trying to figure out frivolous arguments why his late-career stats shouldn't count. But alas, he's retired while Teemu is still going strong, fresh and enthusiastic as a spring chicken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QnebO View Post
Could you Swedes stop being whiners and for once live by the reality? Who ever scores the most points, has most points. Selänne can possibly have he's sixth Olympics this season if things go well for him. Something that Sundin never could achieve. You have many succesfull things in hockey in general. And still you must be so arrogant and simple? You sound like yanks in youtube.


Last edited by Darth Yoda: 09-01-2013 at 10:01 AM.
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Old
09-01-2013, 10:02 AM
  #424
FiLe
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
What are you talking about, Troll Trollsson? I do know though that some finns have problems with the english language, and you are one of them obviously. You then go on to compare just the three Olympics where both participated. That's lame man. What was it you said now again? Ah: "Swedish trolls can twist and try to turn stats anyway they want."
For what it's worth, that guy is rarely worth listening to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Then we have two Mike Gartners strotting their case:
I've no idea if that was meant as a retort or something else, but I'd still like to remind you that it was you who started this whole comparison game, as if you didn't like the idea of a Finnish player being greater at something than a Swedish one.

The thing is, I never said that Selänne's olympic record makes him the next #99 or anything like that. I wasn't even comparing him to anybody. So we can compare Sundin or Forsberg or Lemieux or Masken-Karlsson or whoever's stats to Selänne all over their careers, but it still doesn't change the base fact. That being: Selänne is one hell of an olympian and a down right legend in that sense.

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09-01-2013, 10:06 AM
  #425
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Lehterä had really strong tournament. some people questioned his ability to play in the 4th line but i thought in russia game in particular he was really strong ox on the boards and i could see him slotted there. if M.Koivu takes nr1 spot and S.Koivu centers 3rd line then 2nd line will be between Kontiola/Lehterä/O.Jokinen. no point wasting filppula in center when we have just as good options there.

1st line: M.Koivu
2nd line: Kontiola/Lehterä/O.Jokinen
3rd line: S.Koivu
4th line: Kontiola/Lehterä/O.Jokinen/N.Kapanen/Barkov/Immonen

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