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2014 - Finland Roster Discussion

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Old
09-01-2013, 10:27 AM
  #426
Erikfromfin
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My personal updated squadron after czech eht that i hope plays in sochi

forward lineups
J.Jokinen - M.Koivu - V.Filppula
T.Ruutu - P.Kontiola - Mi.Granlund
T.Selänne - S.Koivu - L.Korpikoski
L.Komarov - J.Lehterä - A.Pihlström
A.Barkov

defence
K.Timonen - S.Salo
J.Pitkänen - O.Väänänen
S.Vatanen - J.Niskala
I.Melart

goalies
T.Rask
P.Rinne
K.Lehtonen


no places for O.Jokinen/V.Leino/J.Aaltonen/S.Bergenheim et cetera in forward section

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Old
09-01-2013, 11:06 AM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post


And then we see two Mike Gartners strotting their case:
You sort out your own case for sure. Selänne still is more successful in Olympics. It wont really change it, no matter much how much you criticize our English or talk bs in general. Keep digging your grave son.

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Old
09-01-2013, 11:12 AM
  #428
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You sort out your own case for sure. Selänne still is more successful in Olympics. It wont really change it, no matter much how much you criticize our English or talk bs in general. Keep digging your grave son.
You did not get what i in that situation meant with two Mike Gartners strotting their case?

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09-01-2013, 12:38 PM
  #429
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I don't belive Jokinen will rebound and start to produce again, his time is over, I think it would be a mistake to give him one of de C spots.

As for Barkov, perhaps he will do good, but there is a big risk he needs a year or two before he can take a permanent spot in the NHL.

If it was up to me, id rather have Lehterä and Kontiola than Jokinen and Barkov(Kapanen). But that's just me. Kontila has good chemistry with Aaltonen too.

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09-02-2013, 08:22 AM
  #430
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Jeez here's my thinking's..

MG-Koivu-Ruutu We've all seen how dominant MG can be in big rinks. With strong and physical linemates he has even more time to let those orgasmic saucers fly. And you just cant separate Mikko&Tuomo.

Kontiola-Koivu-Selänne With Erkka's strict roles the 2nd line gets lots of icetime and their job is to score goals. Teemu is horrible in own end so 2nd line it is. After last WHC Kontiola is pretty shure pick for the olympics and he needs icetime and scoring linemates to get things going.

Korpikoski-Barkov-JJ This is the 3rd line, they score and keep the puck. All of them are super at own end of the rink. This line works like this: They shut opponents down between the bluelines and force them just dump the puck to our end. Barkov picks up the puck and makes super pass to JJ or K who already are flying to opponents end and 2on1 backhand forehand bombombom.

Joensuu-Bergenheim-Komarov Komarov grinding with the boys and Bergs&Joensuu's ability to score some dirty important goals is what we need. Not just shure about who's able to play C

13th forward candidates: Lehterä, OJ?, Leino?, Armia?

If MG doesn't fit 1st line he can switch place's with Korpikoski,Koivu and Korpikoski looked great together in TPS. Kontiola can take Barkov's position and Barkov is great choice also for 4th line C

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Old
09-02-2013, 08:34 AM
  #431
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Originally Posted by loudis View Post
Jeez here's my thinking's..

MG-Koivu-Ruutu We've all seen how dominant MG can be in big rinks. With strong and physical linemates he has even more time to let those orgasmic saucers fly. And you just cant separate Mikko&Tuomo.

Kontiola-Koivu-Selänne With Erkka's strict roles the 2nd line gets lots of icetime and their job is to score goals. Teemu is horrible in own end so 2nd line it is. After last WHC Kontiola is pretty shure pick for the olympics and he needs icetime and scoring linemates to get things going.

Korpikoski-Barkov-JJ This is the 3rd line, they score and keep the puck. All of them are super at own end of the rink. This line works like this: They shut opponents down between the bluelines and force them just dump the puck to our end. Barkov picks up the puck and makes super pass to JJ or K who already are flying to opponents end and 2on1 backhand forehand bombombom.

Joensuu-Bergenheim-Komarov Komarov grinding with the boys and Bergs&Joensuu's ability to score some dirty important goals is what we need. Not just shure about who's able to play C

13th forward candidates: Lehterä, OJ?, Leino?, Armia?

If MG doesn't fit 1st line he can switch place's with Korpikoski,Koivu and Korpikoski looked great together in TPS. Kontiola can take Barkov's position and Barkov is great choice also for 4th line C
btw u forgot filppula.(edited)

good points. i think a lot of people are now coming together on the forwards that should be in the team. lineups and places might wary but the 11-12 forwards are starting to shape up in everyones lineups. some people might put jesse joensuu ahead of antti pihlström or komarov etc in 4th line but that is just everyones different ideas. 3 first line players are pretty much locks but who plays where is not. i think erkka is that sort of coach that he might even surprise with few surprising player picks. in defence is the 3-5 obvious locks and then people choose who they like most, but theres not come one 7 man undisputed group that all like. in goal i think the question is simply which one to drop from rinne,rask,lehtonen,niemi


Last edited by Erikfromfin: 09-02-2013 at 08:42 AM.
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Old
09-02-2013, 08:46 AM
  #432
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Defence

Timonen-Salo Lot's of experience and there's no way this ain't our top pairing

Pitkänen-Melart Melart is the right kind of guy backing the 4th forward-Joni.

Vatanen-Väänänen I wouldn't have chosen Väänänen to this team if Lydman would have continued his career. Only guy i can think to be backing 4th forward-Sami.

7th guy in may be Lepistö (i cant believe i'm suggesting this) but lately he's been pretty solid and done some which is very positive.

If Ristolainen&/or Määttä gets a spot at NHL they are in replacing Lepistö.

There's also a pretty massive chance that Salo&/or Pitkänen are injured, but please still don't pick Kukkonen. I rather Niinimaa on the ice than Lasse..

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09-02-2013, 09:14 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by loudis View Post
MG-Koivu-Ruutu We've all seen how dominant MG can be in big rinks. With strong and physical linemates he has even more time to let those orgasmic saucers fly. And you just cant separate Mikko&Tuomo.
Could work. But something tells me Filppula is closer to grabbing the LW slot here than MG is. Not that I would mind seeing the Boy Wonder here.

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Kontiola-Koivu-Selänne With Erkka's strict roles the 2nd line gets lots of icetime and their job is to score goals. Teemu is horrible in own end so 2nd line it is. After last WHC Kontiola is pretty shure pick for the olympics and he needs icetime and scoring linemates to get things going.
No. Just no. First of all, the old-timers should not handle 2nd line minutes if we have fresher legs available. 3rd is a better fit for them. PP is of course another story. Also, what is it with people and their stubborness in slotting Konna at wing? HE IS NOT A WINGER. We've seen him try play the role and he's performed at a level that is adequate at best. And we don't want adequate at the olympics, especially when we've got better choices who will no doubt put up better performance. He is good enough to break the team, but not the kind of player to be slotted in by force. So let him make it as a C, or leave him out of the lineup.

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Originally Posted by loudis View Post
Korpikoski-Barkov-JJ This is the 3rd line, they score and keep the puck. All of them are super at own end of the rink. This line works like this: They shut opponents down between the bluelines and force them just dump the puck to our end. Barkov picks up the puck and makes super pass to JJ or K who already are flying to opponents end and 2on1 backhand forehand bombombom.
If Barkov's transition is instant success, this doesn't look half bad. But ATM, I'd rather have one of the KHL centres here (or more likely, the 2nd line).

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Joensuu-Bergenheim-Komarov Komarov grinding with the boys and Bergs&Joensuu's ability to score some dirty important goals is what we need. Not just shure about who's able to play C
Out of those three, the best pick for C is Komarov. But it's again highly unlikely we'll see a line like that. Komarov is all but locked for one wing, then we'll likely see some purer centre picked down the middle and the last slot is an open season for Joensuu, Bergenheim, Pihlström, Hartikainen and whoelsedowehave.

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Timonen-Salo Lot's of experience and there's no way this ain't our top pairing
Yes there is. They're getting old. A solid pairing, but having them bear the brunt of the minutes might be too much to expect. In these games, the minute king will very likely be Pitkänen, with whoever he gets paired with following close behind.

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Pitkänen-Melart Melart is the right kind of guy backing the 4th forward-Joni.
Doesn't fly. Pitkänen will very likely play 25 minutes a night. Melart should not.

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Vatanen-Väänänen I wouldn't have chosen Väänänen to this team if Lydman would have continued his career. Only guy i can think to be backing 4th forward-Sami.
We would have needed more than one stay-at-home guy even in the case Lydman would have been there, and Ozzy was #2, now #1 at that depth chart. So he would have been there all along.

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7th guy in may be Lepistö (i cant believe i'm suggesting this) but lately he's been pretty solid and done some which is very positive.

If Ristolainen&/or Määttä gets a spot at NHL they are in replacing Lepistö.
Agreed. Though Niskala might deserve a look as well.



Overall, nice effort though. At least you had some nice analysis and reasoning for it all, but it still needs some work. I'm not Erkka so this is just IMO, of course.


Last edited by FiLe: 09-02-2013 at 09:22 AM.
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09-02-2013, 10:26 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by loudis View Post
Jeez here's my thinking's..

MG-Koivu-Ruutu We've all seen how dominant MG can be in big rinks. With strong and physical linemates he has even more time to let those orgasmic saucers fly. And you just cant separate Mikko&Tuomo.

Kontiola-Koivu-Selänne With Erkka's strict roles the 2nd line gets lots of icetime and their job is to score goals. Teemu is horrible in own end so 2nd line it is. After last WHC Kontiola is pretty shure pick for the olympics and he needs icetime and scoring linemates to get things going.

Korpikoski-Barkov-JJ This is the 3rd line, they score and keep the puck. All of them are super at own end of the rink. This line works like this: They shut opponents down between the bluelines and force them just dump the puck to our end. Barkov picks up the puck and makes super pass to JJ or K who already are flying to opponents end and 2on1 backhand forehand bombombom.

Joensuu-Bergenheim-Komarov Komarov grinding with the boys and Bergs&Joensuu's ability to score some dirty important goals is what we need. Not just shure about who's able to play C

13th forward candidates: Lehterä, OJ?, Leino?, Armia?

If MG doesn't fit 1st line he can switch place's with Korpikoski,Koivu and Korpikoski looked great together in TPS. Kontiola can take Barkov's position and Barkov is great choice also for 4th line C
If some kind of a miracle happens and MiG ends up playing 1st line wing in Minnesota, Erkka could slot him there over Filppula in Sochi as well. As of now though, it's Filppula's spot, but I don't think having Granlund there is a terrible idea at all.

Saku and Teemu should not be playing on the 2nd line. It's true that Teemu's awful defensively, but I would love to use Saku as our shutdown center and give him PK minutes instead of PP. Of course if Teemu's handcuffed to him, it makes it a lot more difficult, so I would not be particularly surprised if Erkka ended up putting them on the 2nd line and using them on the PP together. In that case Filppula should be on the other wing, not Kontiola.

I like the 3rd line as an idea, but right now we need to see how Barkov does. If he does fine, then I'm open to this.

Komarov would be the best bet to center that 4th line and in an emergency I think we should go for it, but if we have healthy centers suited to play on the 4th line, let's use one of them.

I doubt OJ would be okay with pressbox duty, so if he's not among the playing centers, he's probably not coming.

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Old
09-02-2013, 02:54 PM
  #435
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Kontiola in team would be bad idea in my personal opinion.. Even more so in second line. Last tourney was good but then when it really mattered he didin't show up.. In olympics, barely makes the team and fights for low minute spots or is out. Yeah Konna had good season in KHL last year. Let's see what happens this year, but it its nothing less than the same, he should be out. KHL experience is over-respected, we need to respect how players actually play and NHL experience is much more important.

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09-02-2013, 04:33 PM
  #436
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KHL experience is over-respected, we need to respect how players actually play and NHL experience is much more important.
Pfft. It's overlooked if anything.

If we look at our centre depth, Mikko Koivu is the only surefire top-six lock we've got.

Filppula would be another if placed at middle, but he'll likely play wing.

Granlund... too raw.

Barkov... ditto.

Then we've got Saku, who might be better suited at bottom-six at this stage.

OJ is a contender, but he comes from an abysmal season and his last NT showings are from four years ago. He needs to pick it up.

If we forget about J.Jokinen, T.Ruutu and Leino who will almost surely play wing if/when they make it, that leaves us our top KHLers. Both Kontiola and Lehterä are the #1 guys in their teams and play in a very tough league. If they keep racking up points, they'll be very viable candidates for 2C. OJ can challenge, but he needs to score on the same rate as them or at least close. If we by Xmas have a choice between a, say, 0.5PPG NHL guy vs. 1PPG KHL guy, I'd rather have the latter. Especially since the games are on big ice.


Also, I'm sick of hearing how Kontiola didn't "show up" when it mattered. C'mon. Hockey is still a team game. And look what kind of team he had on his back. Kontiola was the biggest difference-maker we had last spring. Without him, that team would not have gotten even as far as it did. Hell, the guy dragged us to the semis technically alone. But no... because he finally run into the Sedins and couldn't take them on all by himself, he is a failure.

I'm not saying he's a lock for the team in my mind or that we even have room for him, especially if Lehterä and/or OJ put up better showings. But IF he gets picked, I'm certain he will do fine. Because this time, he's not the only guy leading the charge, but just another good player in the company of others, ready to face whatever's thrown at them.


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09-03-2013, 02:26 AM
  #437
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I think right now it's a toss-up between OJ and a KHL center of who's the more risky choice. It will stay that way in my mind until we see how this season turns out to be for them. If OJ goes back to 50-60 point form, he's going to Sochi. If not, then it will be a more difficult decision, depending on the numbers we're looking at.

It doesn't matter that Kontiola had to be leading the charge last spring, because his job would not get any easier in Sochi due to the depth of countries like Canada, USA, Sweden etc. Maybe he won't have to face the Sedins, but instead he'll get Zetterberg or Bäckström. That's like asking someone if they'd rather die by getting eaten by a crocodile or bitten by a cobra. The only country that would suit him and other KHL centers stylistically is Russia. To me in the WHC it seemed like Kontiola didn't know how to play against a country like the USA. He tried tricks that didn't work and will not work this time around either, it's a stylistical issue more than anything. If he or any KHL center needs to be used in the top 6, they should be with two NHL wingers, not Aaltonen. Kontiola immediately did a little better when he played with Granlund and Korpikoski.

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09-03-2013, 05:03 AM
  #438
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I think right now it's a toss-up between OJ and a KHL center of who's the more risky choice. It will stay that way in my mind until we see how this season turns out to be for them. If OJ goes back to 50-60 point form, he's going to Sochi. If not, then it will be a more difficult decision, depending on the numbers we're looking at.
If OJ gets back up there, he should be the one going - and playing. No question.

While I hate sounding like a damn apologist, you still can't say how Kontiola might or might not fare because of the last games. Because the situation will be wholly different. Yes, he will face even tougher opposition, no doubt. But like I said, he will also be surrounded by different players. Different, hopefully better wingers, more seasoned d-men. And different game plan too, if the EHT is of any indicator. In fact, you might as well shed some blame for not knowing how to play against some teams towards Jalonen's coaching as well. We didn't fare too well against "certain teams" in 2012 either - and managed to avoid them altogether in 2011.


My point is, we should not deal out any blame or certain tickets at this stage. At the moment we have a handful of viable options to fill a certain slot, and only an idiot wouldn't keep 'em all open. Hell, I'd even give a certain benefit of doubt to Immonen, if he somehow roars back into form. There'd be bit of a Granlund connection there, after all...

Also, it sort of ticks me off that a KHL guy can show his form several seasons in a row and people constantly come up with all kinds of frivolous excuses why they shouldn't count. Yet they're gleefully giving Selänne a huge role despite his advanced age (and signs of it showing) or giving OJ a pass despite him being in a downwards spiral for a while now. The NHL sure seems to create some curious double standards.

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09-03-2013, 06:03 AM
  #439
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Lehtera is on the team 95%. He is the best center outside Mikko Koivu. Don't let the "NHL>>>KHL" fool you.

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09-03-2013, 06:47 AM
  #440
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Jokinen might be better choise than kontiola for bottom 6. He's playing style is much more defensive these days than 4 years ago. He's proven against NHL competition while Kontiola is not. I think he being on fire on those MM-Skabat was very great, but doesn't prove alone to much for Olympics. He has earned the possibility to fight and even make the olympic team, and I wouldn't take that away from him even if I could. But if he makes the team over Lehterä and Jokinen, I will feel that is wrong choise, unless he has superb season this year (or Lehterä and OJ fail big time).

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09-03-2013, 07:03 AM
  #441
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Jokinen might be better choise than kontiola for bottom 6. He's playing style is much more defensive these days than 4 years ago.
Moot point. If we have nothing but bottom-six slots open, we've got even better choices than either Jokinen or Kontiola.

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He's proven against NHL competition while Kontiola is not. I think he being on fire on those MM-Skabat was very great, but doesn't prove alone to much for Olympics. He has earned the possibility to fight and even make the olympic team, and I wouldn't take that away from him even if I could.
Kontiola has been great, at least against European competition, for a few seasons now. For example, I wasn't really surprised of his stellar performance last year, but even knew to expect something like it. It was not a one-time streak. His only real downside is the lack of NHL experience, but like Tuomaz above mentioned as well, don't let the NHL > KHL difference fool you.

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But if he makes the team over Lehterä and Jokinen, I will feel that is wrong choise, unless he has superb season this year (or Lehterä and OJ fail big time).
It's relatively simple. The one of those three who performs best over the fall should go. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the choice then. Right now they're all on the same line as showings go. Konna has proven to be a good soldier for us for a few years in running now. Lehterä raised his stock on the last EHT and might actually be the frontrunner ATM. Jokinen is Jokinen, we've all seen the guy and know what he can do, but his showings are getting a little outdated. All in all, there should be no "default pick" as of right now.

Though if the margins are too slim to tell a difference, I'd actually be leaning towards Jokinen. It's a situation like that where all the other intangibles like past performance and NHL experience come into play.


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09-04-2013, 04:23 AM
  #442
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http://blogs.newsobserver.com/canes/...om-heel-injury

Pitkänen hasn't recovered from his injury and still can't put weight on the foot. That's not good at all, and it sounds like they have no idea when he'll be able to play again. This is a potentially career-ending injury. Can't help but love how the thinnest part of this team just keeps on thinning. I don't have my hand on the panic button yet, but it's going to be pretty close if it turns out Pitkänen will be out.




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If OJ gets back up there, he should be the one going - and playing. No question.

While I hate sounding like a damn apologist, you still can't say how Kontiola might or might not fare because of the last games. Because the situation will be wholly different. Yes, he will face even tougher opposition, no doubt. But like I said, he will also be surrounded by different players. Different, hopefully better wingers, more seasoned d-men. And different game plan too, if the EHT is of any indicator. In fact, you might as well shed some blame for not knowing how to play against some teams towards Jalonen's coaching as well. We didn't fare too well against "certain teams" in 2012 either - and managed to avoid them altogether in 2011.


My point is, we should not deal out any blame or certain tickets at this stage. At the moment we have a handful of viable options to fill a certain slot, and only an idiot wouldn't keep 'em all open. Hell, I'd even give a certain benefit of doubt to Immonen, if he somehow roars back into form. There'd be bit of a Granlund connection there, after all...

Also, it sort of ticks me off that a KHL guy can show his form several seasons in a row and people constantly come up with all kinds of frivolous excuses why they shouldn't count. Yet they're gleefully giving Selänne a huge role despite his advanced age (and signs of it showing) or giving OJ a pass despite him being in a downwards spiral for a while now. The NHL sure seems to create some curious double standards.
Jalonen seemed to develop a better understanding of how to play against North Americans after the catastrophic loss on Mother's Day last year. The one single win from the four games over the last two years came with something resembling Erkka's style a lot more than Meidän peli, but even then I think that game would have been lost without the NHL players. Whether Erkka's coaching is so superior compared to Jalonen's that even players with no experience of playing against NHL competition will excel remains to be seen until the Olympics, but right now I'm taking a skeptical approach.

I don't understand some people's fixation on Selänne either, but what bothers me more is that Erkka seems to think he should play a big role as well.

I'm personally not particularly happy about the prospect of Teemu on the team in the first place. First of all, the guy could seriously regress by the time Sochi comes along, but Erkka still wouldn't have the guts to leave him off the team. Another thing that irks me that he needs to be on the PP, but IMO the top two lines should play the PP (and Teemu doesn't belong in the top 6 anymore), as should Vatanen, Pitkänen, Timonen and Salo. I think that would work the best, because of the lack of practice time the team will have together. But now we're either going to see Saku and Teemu in the top 6 or another player who needs PP time will be taken off it because of Teemu's free ticket.

If OJ keeps on regressing, he absolutely shouldn't come along. I can only hope Erkka's love for him isn't as strong as for Teemu.

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09-04-2013, 05:30 AM
  #443
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Pitkänen hasn't recovered from his injury and still can't put weight on the foot. That's not good at all, and it sounds like they have no idea when he'll be able to play again. This is a potentially career-ending injury. Can't help but love how the thinnest part of this team just keeps on thinning. I don't have my hand on the panic button yet, but it's going to be pretty close if it turns out Pitkänen will be out.
Don't worry, I'm sure Erkka has it all worked out. All he needs to do is to dig up letter 'N' on his phonebook...

To be honest, my mind quickly went through the possible replacement candidates and came up with... a pretty big blank. In fact, it'd be easier to replace Mikko Koivu, your 1C and captain, than what it is to replace what is supposed to be your number 1 d-man.

Some might immediately say Timonen, but I'm saying that you can't put it all on another 40-year-old guy.

The European candidates' shortlist doesn't look much better. Lepistö, Niskala, Hietanen... all solid guys, but you just don't see them leading the charge towards olympic gold.

There's only one guy who currently has what it takes to be The Man in this case - and that is Vatanen. Of course, you're going to need yet another solid OD even if he's stepping up. And well, to fully replace the hole you'd need a miracle, meaning either Ristolainen or Määttä pulling a Brodin - making it up and staying up.

You can still make it with Vatanen taking the reins and patching the top-four with a decent euro, but if that comes to pass, the hill just got a whole lotta steeper.


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Whether Erkka's coaching is so superior compared to Jalonen's that even players with no experience of playing against NHL competition will excel remains to be seen until the Olympics, but right now I'm taking a skeptical approach.
Erkka seemed to have no trouble taking on NA teams with almost full-Euro squads during his last stint. Of course, he had a solid NHLer or two on the front, but so will he do here. It's different times now, of course, so I'm not expecting that to do as a full argument.

Regardless, I still find it the best approach to figure out who's got the best overall showings to fill out a certain role rather than pick onto minutiae such as their ability to fare against an individual team (or even individual player) in order to come up with a reason for why they might be a bad pick. It always gives me the vibe that the one making the argument has some kind of personal aversion towards said player and is simply trying to dress it as a neutral justification.


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I don't understand some people's fixation on Selänne either, but what bothers me more is that Erkka seems to think he should play a big role as well.
The only thing that keeps me from going full-on nervous is the fact that at least some part of it must be simple media courtesy. It's not the coach's job to publicly pick on a player's ability to do this or that, it's what should be left of outside analysts and commentators. Currently we can't say Teemu can't play like he did just two seasons ago - and you can't blame the coach for veering on the optimistic side on his comments.

Erkka is not stupid. If Teemu turns out to be mostly dead weight for the Ducks, he can't just presume the guy is suddenly going to be a top-six asset for the Lions. If he does, we can always take solace in the fact that we were probably never going to win anything with so out-of-touch coach anyway.

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09-04-2013, 07:56 AM
  #444
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''You cant put it all on another 40-year-old guy.'' First of all Kimble is far away from 40 And can you really say Timonen isn't able to handle 1D duties? I really can't. Plus we don't have other options instead of mister N.

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09-04-2013, 08:37 AM
  #445
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About Teemu, there is only two chances for him right now if he's not injured. Either he plays in this olympic team or he plays very well in this olympic team. And Timonen is capable for 1st pairing obviously if needed.

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09-04-2013, 08:38 AM
  #446
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Don't worry, I'm sure Erkka has it all worked out. All he needs to do is to dig up letter 'N' on his phonebook...

To be honest, my mind quickly went through the possible replacement candidates and came up with... a pretty big blank. In fact, it'd be easier to replace Mikko Koivu, your 1C and captain, than what it is to replace what is supposed to be your number 1 d-man.

Some might immediately say Timonen, but I'm saying that you can't put it all on another 40-year-old guy.

The European candidates' shortlist doesn't look much better. Lepistö, Niskala, Hietanen... all solid guys, but you just don't see them leading the charge towards olympic gold.

There's only one guy who currently has what it takes to be The Man in this case - and that is Vatanen. Of course, you're going to need yet another solid OD even if he's stepping up. And well, to fully replace the hole you'd need a miracle, meaning either Ristolainen or Määttä pulling a Brodin - making it up and staying up.

You can still make it with Vatanen taking the reins and patching the top-four with a decent euro, but if that comes to pass, the hill just got a whole lotta steeper.
I think we'll have to trust Timonen in case Pitkänen's out. It's far from ideal, but I think putting that kind of responsibility on the shoulders of a 22-year-old who's gotten used to playing sheltered minutes in the NHL is even less ideal. In a few years the situation will hopefully look very different in regards to the best defensemen we have available, but right now the reality is that our best bets would be a player who's too old and a player who's too young.

Having Ristolainen or Määttä take a spot in the NHL would indeed be a miracle. I think RR is a fine candidate for Minsk next spring, but probably not Sochi. As for Määttä, there's this nagging suspicion in my mind that he could be ready for the NHL. I've read several articles on ESPN insider stating that there's at least a bunch of NHL scouts who believe he could be ready to play in the NHL, or at least very close to it. I don't really buy it if a North American scout says Ristolainen's ready for the NHL, but Määttä has played in NA for long enough for them to have had a good look at him, and I haven't seen anything from Määttä that would necessarily speak against the idea.


Quote:
Regardless, I still find it the best approach to figure out who's got the best overall showings to fill out a certain role rather than pick onto minutiae such as their ability to fare against an individual team (or even individual player) in order to come up with a reason for why they might be a bad pick. It always gives me the vibe that the one making the argument has some kind of personal aversion towards said player and is simply trying to dress it as a neutral justification.
If we go into preferences, I actually prefer Kontiola and Lehterä over OJ, who I don't like at all. I would be perfectly all right with never having to see the guy on the NT again. What I'm concerned with is the difference (mainly style-wise) between the NHL and the KHL. Also, NHL players in general are bigger and stronger than KHL players. When your opponents suddenly get more physical, bigger, stronger and even faster than what you're used to facing, you're going to have to adjust, even if your talent level is good enough. Of course these are generalizations and for some players the adjustment is easier than for others, but I think taking KHL players into big roles is risky. Naturally if you only have less than ideal options (which is IMO the current situation), you'll have to take the one that's the least risky.

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09-04-2013, 10:16 AM
  #447
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I think we'll have to trust Timonen in case Pitkänen's out. It's far from ideal, but I think putting that kind of responsibility on the shoulders of a 22-year-old who's gotten used to playing sheltered minutes in the NHL is even less ideal. In a few years the situation will hopefully look very different in regards to the best defensemen we have available, but right now the reality is that our best bets would be a player who's too old and a player who's too young.
I don't think Vatanen's age is an issue, but his experience might indeed be. Still, if you need a guy to clock 25 minutes a night quarterbacking offense and not having to fear that his level of production dips, he's your man. What that level is and whether he's being ready or not has nothing to do with it, because he's simply the best we've got if Pitkänen is out.

Of course Timonen and Salo's roles grow as well, but never to the levels of burden one could have loaded on Pitkänen.

Also, the competition might be NHL level, but let's still keep in mind that the rink is international. If Granlund struggles in small rink but becomes a beast in big one, it's fair to expect more from Vatanen as well.

But eh, guess we'll just have to wait and see how Joni heals. There's still time.


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If we go into preferences, I actually prefer Kontiola and Lehterä over OJ, who I don't like at all. I would be perfectly all right with never having to see the guy on the NT again. What I'm concerned with is the difference (mainly style-wise) between the NHL and the KHL. Also, NHL players in general are bigger and stronger than KHL players. When your opponents suddenly get more physical, bigger, stronger and even faster than what you're used to facing, you're going to have to adjust, even if your talent level is good enough. Of course these are generalizations and for some players the adjustment is easier than for others, but I think taking KHL players into big roles is risky. Naturally if you only have less than ideal options (which is IMO the current situation), you'll have to take the one that's the least risky.
No argument here in general, but still - big ice. Sometimes I get the feeling some of you don't even get how much it levels the odds in the favor of the less physical and more skilled. No offense meant.

Sure, our KHL stars might still be at disadvantage over some aspects of the game, but in general I'd be hard pressed to say that a guy who is arguably a top-5 forward in the KHL (and I'm referring to both Konna and Lehterä here) would be so much out of the water while surrounded by NHL opposition. Especially when they're also surrounded by far more skilled guys by what we've seen them with this far. Like I said, nobody expects them to lead the charge, but simply bring their own contribution to it. Also, while they might be not as capable of answering to certain physicalities, let's keep in mind that not a single Finnish player is intimidated by it, no matter where they play.

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09-04-2013, 12:36 PM
  #448
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Jeez here's my thinking's..

MG-Koivu-Ruutu We've all seen how dominant MG can be in big rinks. With strong and physical linemates he has even more time to let those orgasmic saucers fly. And you just cant separate Mikko&Tuomo.

Kontiola-Koivu-Selänne With Erkka's strict roles the 2nd line gets lots of icetime and their job is to score goals. Teemu is horrible in own end so 2nd line it is. After last WHC Kontiola is pretty shure pick for the olympics and he needs icetime and scoring linemates to get things going.

Korpikoski-Barkov-JJ This is the 3rd line, they score and keep the puck. All of them are super at own end of the rink. This line works like this: They shut opponents down between the bluelines and force them just dump the puck to our end. Barkov picks up the puck and makes super pass to JJ or K who already are flying to opponents end and 2on1 backhand forehand bombombom.

Joensuu-Bergenheim-Komarov Komarov grinding with the boys and Bergs&Joensuu's ability to score some dirty important goals is what we need. Not just shure about who's able to play C

13th forward candidates: Lehterä, OJ?, Leino?, Armia?

If MG doesn't fit 1st line he can switch place's with Korpikoski,Koivu and Korpikoski looked great together in TPS. Kontiola can take Barkov's position and Barkov is great choice also for 4th line C
1st Line MG-Koivu-Ruutu

2nd Filppula-Kontiola/Lehterä-Selänne

3rd Korpikoski-Koivu-JJ

4th Bergenheim-Barkov-Komarov

13th Kontiola/Lehterä

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09-04-2013, 12:46 PM
  #449
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1st Line MG-Koivu-Ruutu

2nd Filppula-Kontiola/Lehterä-Selänne

3rd Korpikoski-Koivu-JJ

4th Bergenheim-Barkov-Komarov

13th Kontiola/Lehterä
Looks far more sensible than the last attempt. Well roled. The only question mark is still how Selänne can fare 2nd line minutes. But other than that, only stuff I would personally change are merely cosmetical.

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09-04-2013, 12:59 PM
  #450
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Looks far more sensible than the last attempt. Well roled. The only question mark is still how Selänne can fare 2nd line minutes. But other than that, only stuff I would personally change are merely cosmetical.
I don't think there will be a clear second line. It seems there seldom is. It seems as ES minutes are quite evenly distributed between the second and third line on team Finland.

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