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2014 - Finland Roster Discussion

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Old
10-20-2013, 11:21 PM
  #576
Darth Yoda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugrimugri View Post
You mean that there ARE no bad opponents when the going gets tough, then again there is a chance that Finland gets the same road to the finals as Sweden got in 2006:

- you throw a game to get the easiest opponent in the QFs
- you then beat a Czech team or perhaps Slovakia in the semifinal
- then you have a nice chance to beat whomever in the Final Game
Yeah, although you probably wont be in a position to throw any games. You probably wont beat no czech team either, and just for the record, Sweden WON that final.

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10-21-2013, 03:37 AM
  #577
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Yeah, although you probably wont be in a position to throw any games.
This much is true, thanks to the current system in use. They sure came in awful hurry to change it after 2006.

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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
You probably wont beat no czech team either
Why is that? Oh, because we're likely slightly worse on paper than them? ...Welcome to HFBoards.

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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
and just for the record, Sweden WON that final.
By the slimmest possible margin, and with no small help from Lady Luck. It's still a win and it counts, yes, but if this was soccer and we were in Middle America, we probably would have already had a whole handful of armed conflicts over that one. With more in the pipeline every time some big-mouthed Swede starts yapping of it.

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10-21-2013, 03:44 AM
  #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugrimugri View Post
You mean that there ARE no bad opponents when the going gets tough, then again there is a chance that Finland gets the same road to the finals as Sweden got in 2006:

- you throw a game to get the easiest opponent in the QFs
- you then beat a Czech team or perhaps Slovakia in the semifinal
- then you have a nice chance to beat whomever in the Final Game
Yeah, especially that final game. What an easy game, Norway would have been a tougher opponent.

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10-21-2013, 06:32 AM
  #579
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Timonen
Salo
Vatanen
Määttä
Lepistö
Väänänen
Järvinen
Kukkonen
3rd & 4th pair

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10-21-2013, 06:43 AM
  #580
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Yeah, although you probably wont be in a position to throw any games. You probably wont beat no czech team either, and just for the record, Sweden WON that final.
we dont throw away games. that only happends in sweden. sorry bro

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10-21-2013, 07:06 AM
  #581
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Originally Posted by behemolari View Post
3rd & 4th pair
Yeah, tell me about it. The sad fact is that there's a fair reason Erkka will be eyeing those guys - unless either Melart somehow climbs to the NHL or some other Euro option (Laakso, Jalasvaara, Jaakola, etc) outplays 'em at the Karjala Tournament. And even then, it might be Järvinen on the trigger.

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10-21-2013, 06:33 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
we dont throw away games. that only happends in sweden. sorry bro
We did not tank it. Just hard to motivate ones selves 100 percent if a win means Canada, a loss Switzerland. And why do we get all the blame in this? Blame the canucks for losing to the swiss, and the czechs for tying them. Or if it was the other way around, dont matter.

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10-22-2013, 01:23 PM
  #583
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Concerning our lousy d-man situation, here's one more tidbit I just noticed: Joonas Järvinen has been out with an unspecified lower-body injury since the pre-season. He hasn't dressed in a single game for the Admirals.

There's still plenty time for him to get healthy, of course. But the less he plays, the slimmer are his chances of staying on Erkka's radar, given how he's stuck in the AHL.

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10-22-2013, 06:02 PM
  #584
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Hi.

What is the likely Finnish D core going to the Olympics. Is there a likelyhood that Maatta goes and if he does would it be as an extra D or on a pairing?

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Old
10-22-2013, 06:47 PM
  #585
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What is the likely Finnish D core going to the Olympics. Is there a likelyhood that Maatta goes and if he does would it be as an extra D or on a pairing?
Just reading back a few posts should give you a sufficient answer. But eh, not my job to nag about that, so I'll recap.

Three D-men are locks, if healthy - Timonen, Salo and Sami Vatanen. The rest will be picked from a pool of about 15, making up some kind of mixture of our European fixtures, the young ones and maybe some AHLer thrown into the mix. Joni Pitkänen is out with a season-long injury. Toni Lydman retired.

If Määttä is not sent to London, his chances of going are extremely good. There are more places up for grabs than locked down, and anyone with recent NHL experience will be given a long, hard look. Which means there's a good likelyhood that he'll see some ice too. Even more so, if our new coach sticks to the 12F-8D model favored by his predecessor.

Simply put, if he's still in Pittsburgh come Christmas, he's almost certainly going. Hard to say what his chances will be from the OHL. Not as good, me figures.




One possible eight could be: Kimmo Timonen - Sami Salo - Sami Vatanen - Sami Lepistö - Olli Määttä - Ossi Väänänen - Joonas Järvinen - Lasse Kukkonen.

Rasmus Ristolainen, Ilari Melart, Teemu Laakso, Juuso Hietanen, Petteri Nummelin and other players of their fame and caliber could also be contending.


Last edited by FiLe: 10-22-2013 at 07:35 PM.
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10-23-2013, 09:51 AM
  #586
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Hi.

What is the likely Finnish D core going to the Olympics. Is there a likelyhood that Maatta goes and if he does would it be as an extra D or on a pairing?
talking about Finnish D core, it's nothing but inferior. there's no f'king way both Salo & Timonen stays healthy till January, fact that Pitkanen is out.. we are almost doomed - just almost.. think everyone is praying to both Maatta & Ristolainen step up big time on their teams, without that happening

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10-23-2013, 10:02 AM
  #587
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Yeah, tell me about it. The sad fact is that there's a fair reason Erkka will be eyeing those guys - unless either Melart somehow climbs to the NHL or some other Euro option (Laakso, Jalasvaara, Jaakola, etc) outplays 'em at the Karjala Tournament. And even then, it might be Järvinen on the trigger.
whoever can open game fast, defensively we are outplayed and outmuscled anyways. at least we have some goalies

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10-23-2013, 10:06 AM
  #588
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
We did not tank it. Just hard to motivate ones selves 100 percent if a win means Canada, a loss Switzerland. And why do we get all the blame in this? Blame the canucks for losing to the swiss, and the czechs for tying them. Or if it was the other way around, dont matter.
nah.. just blame swedes everything, lot more fun

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10-23-2013, 11:14 AM
  #589
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People here dont consider hands at all. for sure u take clearly the better defensman but if theres 2 guys one being right and one being left hand shot on same bar the right hand guy will be favored thats why players like Ristolainen were considered popular picks early on and theres still good chance Karalahti makes it. its not straight list from 1 to 8 best defensman u gotto think pairs aswell.
i would personally like to see Määttä Karalahti as duo. Määttä has better chance making the team over Ristolainen if u interested in the young nhl d-men. If our Defence looks weak one of the main reasons is we lost our basicly 2nd defensive duo in Joni Pitkänen and Toni Lydman this last summer. Big Blow when our defence wasnt premium in the first place.


Last edited by Erikfromfin: 10-23-2013 at 11:45 AM.
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Old
10-23-2013, 12:41 PM
  #590
FiLe
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Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
People here dont consider hands at all. for sure u take clearly the better defensman but if theres 2 guys one being right and one being left hand shot on same bar the right hand guy will be favored thats why players like Ristolainen were considered popular picks early on and theres still good chance Karalahti makes it. its not straight list from 1 to 8 best defensman u gotto think pairs aswell.
You know, we actually have better availability of right-hooked D-men at the moment - it's the quality lefties who are in the minority.

On the right side, the depth chart starts from Salo and Vatanen, then carries on through Hietanen, Ristolainen, Karalahti - and even Laakso if you wish to utilize him in a shooting role. With Pitkänen out, you have Timonen as a surefire name for the lefties and then there's already a small dip in prominence. The next ones are Lepistö and Määttä, and only going downhill from there. Nummelin's probably the next pick since Niskala has been down right abysmal lately.

Also, the handedness only matters in the top-four, who will be the PP linesmen. You don't technically need more than two righties to even out the pairs, and you can do that with two players who are locks already. So actually it's being a lefty that might give a guy a slight edge if the chips fall even. Karalahti for example, has far from a good chance of making it. He will probably need an injury or two to ride on in order to make it. Back to your books, kiddo.


What is far more important than handednesses right now is to make sure we have a solid make-up of various player types. Minimum of four ODs to man the PP blueline, then one or two utility guys who can play either role and finally two or three shutdown type players.

Currently we have Timonen, Salo and Vatanen riding in as the ODs, with the likes of Määttä, Lepistö, Hietanen and Nummelin as candidates for the final spot. For an utility role, Määttä, Lepistö and Ristolainen are good enough picks. Laakso and Karalahti too, in a pinch. Our DD corps consist of Väänänen, Kukkonen, Järvinen, Melart, Laakso, Jalasvaara, Jaakola... plenty to pick from with these types. In the end, you'll see players of every group make it in. Handednesses only start playing a role if you start getting heavy ratios like 3-1 or 4-0 favoring either side in the top four.


Last edited by FiLe: 10-23-2013 at 12:53 PM.
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10-23-2013, 02:33 PM
  #591
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You dont seem to realize the importance of having left and right hand shot in each pair. i can live with the 4th pair being shutdown pair and having two lefties there and just roll 3 pairs. Its crucial specially for team Finland tactics to have that right hand defensman who can make plays even through the middle not just dumb the boards. its easier to avoid forecheck and carry out puck. this is basic hockey. get an injury to salo or even vatanen and u have 7-1 situation or then 6-1 in left hand players. team should atleast have 3 right hand guys specially when the lefties are no improvement from Karalahti or other strong candidate Hietanen

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10-23-2013, 02:39 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
We did not tank it. Just hard to motivate ones selves 100 percent if a win means Canada, a loss Switzerland. And why do we get all the blame in this? Blame the canucks for losing to the swiss, and the czechs for tying them. Or if it was the other way around, dont matter.

Why should they blame teams for losing a game they probably wanted to win? You think Canada wanted to face Russia?

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10-23-2013, 03:46 PM
  #593
FiLe
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Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
You dont seem to realize the importance of having left and right hand shot in each pair.
I understand perfectly the advantage matching handednesses bring, especially on the PP blueline play. And like I put it, at the very least we should try and go for a situation where our top four have L-R pairings - which is something we have a very good chance of achieving, with both Salo and Vatanen being right-handed shots. And if one of them is out, having Hietanen, RR or even Karalahti as a sub is certainly an option.

However, while having some in the bottom pairs would be nice as well, they are NOT a necessity. It is far more important for them to have a strong presence in the own end and be good on PK. Most of the candidates for those roles are lefties, with Ristolainen, Laakso and perhaps Karalahti again being the exceptions. Though Jere has a long way to go, and someone like Hietanen will never make it if all that's planned for him is locking down the back end and heavy PK duty, no matter how much of a righty he is.

In the end, Erkka will pick the final eight from players available to him perfectly according to who he views as most prominent for executing the role planned for him. Handednesses might be a factor, but they won't be dealbreakers. If, say, Kukkonen impresses more than Karalahti despite the squad already being full of lefties, then Kukkonen gets the ticket. That's how it's always been, and once again you trying to bend the reality with your will won't make a squat of difference.


Last edited by FiLe: 10-23-2013 at 03:55 PM.
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10-24-2013, 01:58 PM
  #594
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So Määttä sticks. The next key limit is at 40 games, which should come around somewhere near Xmas. Even if he gets sent down with that coming up, it doesn't really matter anymore. In that time he should have more than ample time to convince Erkka. The Finnish Olympic Committee announced just today that the final squad will be named at 8 January, so there's next to none or very little OHL play that needs to be factored in.

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10-24-2013, 05:41 PM
  #595
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Jussi Jokinen was interviewed today regarding Määttä:

Quote:
He's played well for nine games. How difficult will it be for him to maintain a level pace of play over the course of a professional season.

"I think now that he made our team, he’s slotted to make our [Finland’s] Olympic team too. If we have a long playoff run, he’s going to play in more 100 games. Obviously, that’s going to be the biggest [test], how he’ll handle that. I remember my first year … everything was new. I didn’t feel tired my first year. I think I played like 115 games or something like that
Quote:
You mentioned the Olympics. Have you talked to Finland's management regarding him?

"Yeah. I’ve been talking a little it to one of the people in management. Obviously they are scouting a lot too [for] all of our players who are playing [in North America]. I think they’ve seen it already. He’s already playing in the NHL. He’s made the team here. He’s pretty much a lock to make the Olympic team."
http://blogs.post-gazette.com/sports...ce=twitterfeed

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10-24-2013, 05:59 PM
  #596
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For what it's worth, Jokinen thought himself a lock for the 2010 games...

Realistically though, if Määttä keeps playing as he has this far, it's going to take a pretty strong argument that will drop him from the squad.

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10-25-2013, 01:29 AM
  #597
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Semi-surprising:

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S. Koivu: “Twice (Torino 2006 and Vancouver 2010), I’ve played then come back to compete at a high level in the NHL,” he said. “If the Ducks are going to the playoffs, that’s when I must sit down and think in a selfish perspective to see what’s going to be better for me: to compete for my country, which would be awesome one more time, or have the rest to refocus and recuperate for the end of the NHL season.”
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...344/story.html

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10-25-2013, 02:43 AM
  #598
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Originally Posted by wirelessflyingcord View Post
Sure, but by thinking about it for a while, he knows fully well that Finlands window to win has closed, while his chance to win a Cup is still possible. It probably could be seen as provocative for finns, but at the same time, maybe its time to just give your new generation a head start.


Last edited by Darth Yoda: 10-25-2013 at 02:52 AM.
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10-25-2013, 02:46 AM
  #599
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Finland got solid goaltending, as ever, even if they would lose their 3 best goalies due to injuries. The forwards look decent, as long as they roll 3 lines at least. But as other have pointed out the weak spot is the defence. I really do not see that a breakthrough of some young guys will matter much this close to Sochi.

But hockey is hockey.

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10-25-2013, 03:14 AM
  #600
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Originally Posted by wirelessflyingcord View Post
Not really IMO. Saku knows his meaning to Finland has grown smaller, and the team no longer needs him to lead it. Whether he is on the team or not matters a lot less than what it used to. If he does this, I will not be angry at him in the least because I know he must be doing it for a good reason. I think he could have other reasons besides just wanting to be fresh for a cup run, but at this point they're just my speculation. It is time for others to take responsibility on the team anyway.

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